date:20090319

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE

* Marlon K. Schafer wrote, On 3/18/2009 10:32 PM:
> Thanks Leon,
>   
You;re welcome Marlon...
> Do you have a contact person?
>   
Harold Bledsoe he's a WISPA member vendor.
> Also, what ranges and speeds are people seeing with 3650?
>   
I don;t know as I'm not with Bluemont anymore and we/I were looking at 
all the 3650 stuff last year. Depends on the channel size too.
> Anyone worried about self inflicted interneference?  There is only 50mhz of 
> spectrum right?
>   
I don't think that should be an issue.

Let me know how it goes.

Leon
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Leon Zetekoff" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>   
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install at
>>> $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
>>> tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General 
>>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan
 ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 




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Re: [WISPA] Ridiculously OT, but relevant question...

2009-03-19 Thread David Hulsebus

We put a full size plastic owl on a 50 ft tower just above the antenna 
that had many mockingbirds perching on a yagi, and the went away. Not 
sure about woodpeckers. Are they perching or pecking?

Thanks, Dave Hulsebus
Portative Technologies, LLC
www.portative.com





rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> How, uhh, do you deal with woodpeckers...???
>
> Anyone got any ideas other than "shotgun"?
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companies to expand BPL

2009-03-19 Thread Lists

In our State our Governor has stated that they are going to work with the
power companies and provided grant moneys to bring BPL to rural areas.  Just
reading between the lines.

Victoria

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL

I didnt read the whole article as you gotta register to do so. I just took
the subject verbatim. So whats it got to do with BPL then?
-RickG

2009/3/18 Mike Hammett 

> I didn't see anything about BPL in it.  I got the point was that they were
> putting AT&T cell modems in the electric meters.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "RickG" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:32 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL
>
> > I thought the point of the story is BPL? -RickG
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Mike Hammett
> > wrote:
> >
> >> They have no place to complain on this because they'll be using AT&T's
> >> wireless network.
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> From: "RickG" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:41 PM
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL
> >>
> >> > And where is the ARRL and all the Ham operators?
> >> > -RickG
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Lists 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>
http://telephonyonline.com/residential_services/news/att-smartsynch-smart-gr
> >> >> id-technology-0317/<
> >>
>
http://telephonyonline.com/residential_services/news/att-smartsynch-smart-gr
%0Aid-technology-0317/
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Victoria Proffer
> >> >> CEO
> >> >> StLouisBroadband.com
> >> >> MissouriRuralWireless.com
> >> >> 314.974.5600
> >> >> SBA Certified WOSB
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>


> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>


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> >> >>
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>


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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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--

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Valenti

Marlon,

I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have  
that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it  
would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but  
maybe it would be OK on 3.65?

I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20  
customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three  
sectors just to support 20 houses.

They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for  
free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try  
it.
-John

PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.

On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install  
> at
> $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
> tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon

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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Thanks!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "John Valenti" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Marlon,
>
> I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
> that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
> would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
> maybe it would be OK on 3.65?
>
> I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
> customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
> sectors just to support 20 houses.
>
> They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
> free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
> it.
> -John
>
> PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
>> I'm looking into this too.
>>
>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>> at
>> $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
>> tower
>>
>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Pat O'Connor

Marlon I checked the map, and like me, Odessa is within the 150km 
satellite exclusion zone for the station located in Brewster.  From what 
I've read you need to get their permission to operate anything in the 
3.65GHz spectrum.  I just applied for our 3.65GHz licnse so I haven't 
heard anything yet.  If you want I have a .kmz file I can send you with 
the exclusion zone.





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Thanks!
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Valenti" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>   
>> Marlon,
>>
>> I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
>> that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
>> would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
>> maybe it would be OK on 3.65?
>>
>> I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
>> customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
>> sectors just to support 20 houses.
>>
>> They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
>> free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
>> it.
>> -John
>>
>> PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at
>>> $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
>>> tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>   
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>> 
>
>
>
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[WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread Jason Hensley

Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 

Thanks!




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station,
that only supports 30 subscribers. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>
> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>
> Take care leon
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I'm looking into this too.
>>
>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>> that tower
>>
>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
> List"
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fellow operators:
>>>
>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>
>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>
>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>>> Airspan ???
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>
>
> 
> 
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>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

Biggest problem with using a 3 sector configuration on tranzeo is they have
no snyc, and because 
You only have 25mhz to play with, you end up seeing RF issues due to needing
at least 14mhz
Of seperation without snyc.

-

Jeff
 

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Richey
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:52 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

The APs are around $1600-1700 and CPEs are in the $250-300 ballpark. The
AP will handle 30 subs and they have a BAM/PRIZIM type server you can use to
provision SMs or you can do it the old way.Their thought is once you hit
90 users with 3 sectors you will probably be ready to upgrade to a bigger
base station.

 

Richey

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 

How much is the tranzeo stuff going for?  AP and CPE?

Gino Villarini wrote: 

Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
 
Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp 
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT
stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
 
Take care leon
 
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  

I'm looking into this too.
 
So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install at
$20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
tower
 
Anyone have any better ideas?
marlon
 
- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini"   
To: "Motorola Canopy User Group"  
; "WISPA General


List" 
  

  
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
 
 
  


Fellow operators:
 
Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
 
Any updates on experiences with:
 
Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ???
 
 
Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

  

 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread Rick Kunze

In a pinch, I've actually used a separate piece of Cat-5 as the support 
wire, with the data wire loosely tie-wrapped to it.  Then again, many of 
the houses I install have so many holes in the walls I don't need to 
drill one for the entry point.  

Rk

On 3/19/2009 9:19 AM, Jason Hensley wrote:
> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Gino Villarini

Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>


> 
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>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>
>
>


> 
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--

Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companies to expand BPL

2009-03-19 Thread reader

Is there a more expensive way to "bring in broadband" than BPL?   Perhaps 
they would consider FTTH out in the middle of nowhere instead...  That might 
cost more, be more in line... sheesh...

I'm sorry, but I have become so completely disgusted, it's getting difficult 
for me to even relate to any of this stuff.   It's like "crisis mode" is an 
excuse to just let anything happen anywhere to anyone, and spend any amount 
for anything without even a smidgeon of responsibility.

All, precisely when the exact opposite should be happening...  Prudence, 
thrift, conservation, careful judgement and careful analysis...







- Original Message - 
From: "Lists" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companies to expand BPL


> In our State our Governor has stated that they are going to work with the
> power companies and provided grant moneys to bring BPL to rural areas. 
> Just
> reading between the lines.
>
> Victoria
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:12 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL
>
> I didnt read the whole article as you gotta register to do so. I just took
> the subject verbatim. So whats it got to do with BPL then?
> -RickG
>
> 2009/3/18 Mike Hammett 
>
>> I didn't see anything about BPL in it.  I got the point was that they 
>> were
>> putting AT&T cell modems in the electric meters.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "RickG" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:32 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL
>>
>> > I thought the point of the story is BPL? -RickG
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Mike Hammett
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> They have no place to complain on this because they'll be using AT&T's
>> >> wireless network.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> From: "RickG" 
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:41 PM
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] AT&T to work with power companys to expand BPL
>> >>
>> >> > And where is the ARRL and all the Ham operators?
>> >> > -RickG
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Lists 
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
> http://telephonyonline.com/residential_services/news/att-smartsynch-smart-gr
>> >> >> id-technology-0317/<
>> >>
>>
> http://telephonyonline.com/residential_services/news/att-smartsynch-smart-gr
> %0Aid-technology-0317/
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> Victoria Proffer
>> >> >> CEO
>> >> >> StLouisBroadband.com
>> >> >> MissouriRuralWireless.com
>> >> >> 314.974.5600
>> >> >> SBA Certified WOSB
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> >>
>> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> >
>> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >> >
>> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >> >
>> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >>
>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>
>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wire

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough 
bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and 
in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta

We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed  
per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to  
complain.

-Matt

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not  
> having enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the  
> next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18  
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>> the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector  
> install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even  
> see
> that tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>> General
 List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>
>> Fellow operators:
>>
>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>
>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>
>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>> Airspan ???
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>



>> 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

>> 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader

I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to 
2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP,  and even 
then, I consider it oversubscribed.

Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great...  But how good does the signal 
have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much 
effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18?   2 miles?   4 
miles?   I need 25 miles...   I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65, 
due to eirp limits.








- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
> enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>> the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
> that tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>> General
 List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>
>> Fellow operators:
>>
>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>
>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>
>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>> Airspan ???
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>



>> 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

>> 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






>>>
>> ---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is where most 
of us compete.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Matt Liotta" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
> per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
> complain.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>>
>> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
>> having enough
>> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
>> next and
>> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
>> megabit.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
 It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
 station,
 that only supports 30 subscribers.

 -

 Jeff


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 I'm certainly interested in ptmp.

 The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>
> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>>> the
> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>
> Take care leon
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I'm looking into this too.
>>
>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
>> install
>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
>> see
>> that tower
>>
>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>>> General
> List"
>> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fellow operators:
>>>
>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>>
>>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>>
>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>>> Airspan ???
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>
>
>
>>> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>>> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta

Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.

-Matt

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is  
> where most
> of us compete.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Matt Liotta" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
>> per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
>> complain.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>>> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>>>
>>> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
>>> having enough
>>> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
>>> next and
>>> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
>>> megabit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users  
 on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "Jeff Booher" 
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: "'WISPA General List'" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
> ]
 On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>> boun...@wispa.org]
 On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle  
>> to
 the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
>>> install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
>>> see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
 General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>>
 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
 -

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader

my average per customer is around $33/mo





- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is where 
> most
> of us compete.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Matt Liotta" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
>> per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
>> complain.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>>> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>>>
>>> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
>>> having enough
>>> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
>>> next and
>>> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
>>> megabit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
 Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
 WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "Jeff Booher" 
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: "'WISPA General List'" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>> boun...@wispa.org]
 On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
>>> install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
>>> see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
 General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader

How do you do that, Patrick?

Seriously, 18 mbit is 18 mbit.

It isn't magically 36 because it has the word 'wimax' attached to it.

Now, we do understand the technical improvements from better MAC's, but that 
has mostly translated to narrower channels, not more throughput.

Even if you do FIBER, but your "choke point", where everything comes down to 
a single pipe, be it a router, feed, AP, etc,  data is data, it doesn't 
magically shrink because you label "wimax" on the device.Because we 
don't talk in "radio rate" but "AP to client throughput aggregate totals", 
it doesn't matter if it's wimax, bpl, 802.11 or some totally proprietary 
unknown system.   Data transfer limits are data transfer limits, and if you 
need to keep 30 clients going all at the same time with at least 1 meg, it 
ain't going to happen with an 18M feed point, even if the "wimax" word is 
printed, taped, labelled, or scratched onto the device.







- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Leary" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
> high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
> general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
> customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
> number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
> WiMAX world.
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Aperto Networks
> 813.426.4230 mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> ---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Baird

Take a look at SkyPilot gear, it seems to have all the advantages of 
Wimax, plus some benefits.

28 W PTMP in the 5+ Ghz bands, TDD, low cost cpe's. Only thing it really 
lacks, and is also a downfall of Wimax is the radio as a Demarc 
(Routing/Nat/PPPoE).

Regards
Michael Baird
> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough 
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and 
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>   
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> 
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>   
>> On
>> 
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 
>> On
>> 
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
 
>> the
>> 
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
> that tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>   
>> General
>> 
 List"
 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>
>   
>> Fellow operators:
>>
>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>
>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>
>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>> Airspan ???
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> 

 
>> 
>> 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
>> 
>> 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>   
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
>> ---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Patrick Leary

That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
WiMAX world. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>


> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Chuck Bartosch

My understanding is, it's a little more complex than that. With wimax  
prioritization and scheduling, the customer experience is similar to  
what they'd get at 2 or 3 times the normal bandwidth. In other words,  
the customer experience, given a 3 Mbps by 2 Mbps connection on wimax  
gives performance similar to a 5.8 connection at 6 to 9 Mbps down by 4  
to 6 Mbps up. And, because of the prioritization and scheduling, where  
you might be able to support 100 customers, you can support 200 to 300  
customers on a base station. The price for the wimax equipment is  
about 3x what it is for normal 5.8 equipment so the price per customer  
on a fully loaded base station is about the same.

However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many  
situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax  
base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see  
customers you wouldn't otherwise see.

And of course, it's clean spectrum.

So, it isn't a simply question. It will be great for some, useless for  
others. But I think it's useful for more situations than people think  
it is.

Chuck

On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not  
> having enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the  
> next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18  
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>> the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector  
> install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even  
> see
> that tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>> General
 List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>
>> Fellow operators:
>>
>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>
>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>
>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>> Airspan ???
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta


On Mar 19, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

> However, that (obviously) means it's not particularly viable in many
> situations where you don't see enough customers to support a wimax
> base station. But because 3.65 with diversity is supposed to deliver
> NLOS performance similar to or better than 900 MHz, you can see
> customers you wouldn't otherwise see.
>
I can tell you for a fact that even with uplink subchannelization,  
diversity, and all of WiMAX's OFDM subcarriers, 3.65 does not deliver  
NLOS performance similar to or better than 900Mhz. Throw all the  
technology you want at it and 3.65 is still not going to get through  
much foliage. NLOS performance in an urban environment on the other  
hand is great.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

So in the world of Netflix, ABC, FOX, NBC, etc. using multiple megabits of 
bandwidth for hours at a time (often at the same time of other users), tell 
me how well that's going to work?

QoS and fanciness means nothing if you're trying to stuff 30 megs in an 18 
meg pipe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Patrick Leary" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:52 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> That's nuts Mike. I know numerous examples where the numbers are very
> high. Simply depends on what you are selling, like it always has. In
> general though, it is probably a fair point to say that how ever many
> customers you can get on a WISP model for a given capacity, double the
> number of customers for the same service and same same capacity in the
> WiMAX world.
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Aperto Networks
> 813.426.4230 mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with 
other WISPs as often as I can.

However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house. 
My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay 
$500/month for it.

WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of them.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Matt Liotta" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
>> where most
>> of us compete.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Matt Liotta" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
>>> per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
>>> complain.
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users
> on a
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>> ]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle
>>> to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector
 install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even
 see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock

H,
I know a user in the Caribbean that has a couple hundred users on a 5MHz
wide channel that 'only' supports 12 Mbs TDD. Works great for his modeled
plans with voip and smaller data plans best effort. 
But heck if I put one user on a 6x6 Mb plan and they suck it all up then I
would only put one user on right.
The point here is you cannot set numbers of Subscriber Stations(SS) per Base
Station sectors based on a quantities' number but rather actual sold; Best
Effort(BE), nRT(non real time), RT(Real Time) and UGS(unsolicited grant
service); services. 

Making a broad statement like I would only put 30 clients on one WiMAX base
station because of lack of bandwidth is just not accurate with the QoS
settings now available in the radios... 

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX 
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???

 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/m

Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread Scott Reed

Yes that is the correct terminology.
I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have 
needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as 
the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No 
worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does 
not droop, either.

Jason Hensley wrote:
> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   
> 
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
> 20:27:00
>
>   

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

Mike,

Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs per
AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
this level. 

The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside. 

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

Mike,

It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant scale
like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the network.

-

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having enough
bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 megabit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a 
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
>> station, that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
> the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector 
 install at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to 
 even see that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
> General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, 
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> --
> --
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
> --
> --
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> --
> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
> --
> --
> 
>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wir

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader

Many of us can't get away with that.  We have to make sure that there's 
actually bandwidth, not a fancy, 'managed' version of severe 
oversubscription.







- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs 
> per
> AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
> this level.
>
> The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
> AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
> 
>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread reader

Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake 
oil gets poured down the drain?

The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time 
for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among 
the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total 
throughput.

This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual 
throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil 
about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 
mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% 
of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing 
bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS 
REAL THROUGHPUT.

If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little 
less than 6 each.

Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH 
TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all 
equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot violate 
physics.

The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types 
improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based 
on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of us 
operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.   We're 
all about real throughput and good management of our our required business 
model of oversubscription.







- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
> scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant 
> scale
> like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
> work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the 
> network.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
> enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station, that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zet

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

Mike,

There is nothing fancy about a switched MAC vs a polled or listen before
talk mac. That has very little to do with QOS as much is does with utlizing
the pipe appropriately. In a polled system the latency increases with the #
of subscriber stations, same with a listen before talk.In a wimax system,
the mean latency and customer experience remains the same whether or not
there are 30 subs on an AP or 100. Why? Because an inactive subscriber is
not polled, and active subscribers are given time slots to transmit /
receive on a msec basis. 

-

Jeff
  

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:24 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Many of us can't get away with that.  We have to make sure that there's
actually bandwidth, not a fancy, 'managed' version of severe
oversubscription.







- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> Many Wimax manufacturers have many operators who have more than 100 subs 
> per
> AP. Our solution supports up to 30k pps, so it can most defintely scale to
> this level.
>
> The Wimax mac was designed for this, bandwidth aside.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX
> AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>>
>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>>
>>> Take care leon
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
 that tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>>> List"
 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?



> Fellow operators:
>
> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>
> Any updates on experiences with:
>
> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
> Airspan ???
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
>

>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wir

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Jeff Booher

Mike,

This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)

Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an
802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user
experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from
simple issues with the scheduler.  I don't know of a single 802.11 based
system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations. 

Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector in
reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you
can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base
station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6
pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 mb
pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location. 

Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in
modulation, error rate, latencythat it can support many many voice over
ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per
sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you
increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your
effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in
5.8ghz of 10 miles plus. 

So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many
different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 miles
with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz
channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case
issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies that
is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions that
can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. We
know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no
arugment there. 

Best Regards,

_

Jeff Booher

Sales Director, North America
www.apertonet.com




-


 

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM
To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the snake

oil gets poured down the drain?

The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission time
for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely among 
the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...

If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
throughput.

This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual 
throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil 
about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 18 
mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 50% 
of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing 
bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT IS

REAL THROUGHPUT.

If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little
less than 6 each.

Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH 
TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all 
equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot violate 
physics.

The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types
improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.

NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.

 You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based 
on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.   None of us

operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.   We're 
all about real throughput and good management of our our required business
model of oversubscription.







- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Mike,
>
> It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the
> scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant 
> scale
> like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't
> work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the 
> network.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
> enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next y

Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread George Rogato

http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml



Scott Reed wrote:
> Yes that is the correct terminology.
> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have 
> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as 
> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No 
> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does 
> not droop, either.
> 
> Jason Hensley wrote:
>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
>> 20:27:00
>>
>>   
> 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread George Rogato

I got carried away searching for cables I also found this, it says in stock:

http://www.americantechsupply.com/chromatic_out.html

Part Number-ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- (SPEC SHEET) Aerial- UV Rated CAT 5e With 
Messenger- $ 169.00/1000 Feet We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!

ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- INSTOCK! $ 169.99 Per 1000 Foot Box-Part Number : 
ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE- AERIAL CAT5E CABLE- 
Ideal For Roof to Roof- EMP- Light EMP Shielding- FOR USE ON CELL-RADIO 
TOWERS-Dependability you can trust! Our product is backed by 15 year 
warranty, satisfaction guaranteed-We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!

Part Number ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-CAT 5E SHIELDED - AERIAL- WITH 
MESSENGER-UV RATED

Shielded CAT 5E OSP Rated Cable Part Number: ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- 
ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE - THIS CABLE IS NOT GEL FILLED AND IS DESIGNED TO 
USE IN BUILDING TO BUILDING EXTENTION OF TELEPHONE AND DATA ASERVICES 
SUCH AS DSL-BROADBAND- ETHERNET- CAN ALSO BE USED FOR ENVIRONMENTS WITH 
emp- electromagnetic pulse radiation- OR 'NOISY' AREAS THAT CAN 
INTERFERE WITH DATA AND OR TELEPHONE TRANSMISSION. Dependability you can 
trust! Our product is backed by 15 year warranty, satisfaction guaranteed

Call Us Today At (866) 650-3282 (DATA)

George Rogato wrote:
> http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Reed wrote:
>> Yes that is the correct terminology.
>> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have 
>> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as 
>> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No 
>> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does 
>> not droop, either.
>>
>> Jason Hensley wrote:
>>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light pole to
>>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a "messenger"
>>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a year or
>>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?  I've
>>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial and
>>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for me. 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>   
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
>>> 20:27:00
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

No worries.

Only about half of my network is in the zone

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Pat O'Connor" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Marlon I checked the map, and like me, Odessa is within the 150km
> satellite exclusion zone for the station located in Brewster.  From what
> I've read you need to get their permission to operate anything in the
> 3.65GHz spectrum.  I just applied for our 3.65GHz licnse so I haven't
> heard anything yet.  If you want I have a .kmz file I can send you with
> the exclusion zone.
>
>
>
>
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "John Valenti" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Marlon,
>>>
>>> I watched the tranzeo wimax 3.65 webinar a few weeks back. They have
>>> that pico base station for about $1700. I asked, and they said yes, it
>>> would work with an omni. I know everybody says don't use an omni, but
>>> maybe it would be OK on 3.65?
>>>
>>> I was curious because most of my grain legs would max out at 20
>>> customers (due to trees). And I certainly wouldn't want to buy three
>>> sectors just to support 20 houses.
>>>
>>> They do have a starter kit that includes two(?) customer radios for
>>> free.  I'm out of money for testing things, but let us know if you try
>>> it.
>>> -John
>>>
>>> PS - they can sync multiple base stations from a central server.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:27 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I'm looking into this too.

 So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
 at
 $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that
 tower

 Anyone have any better ideas?
 marlon

>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

OK, tell me about yours.

I'll need 20 to 40 users per tower.  Many will likely have even fewer.

In a FEW towns I might need up to 100 users but it'll be years before we hit 
that point.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Booher" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base 
> station,
> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>
> -
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>
> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...
>>
>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the
>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.
>>
>> Take care leon
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I'm looking into this too.
>>>
>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
>>> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
>>> that tower
>>>
>>> Anyone have any better ideas?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA General
>> List"
>>> 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Fellow operators:

 Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?

 Any updates on experiences with:

 Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
 Airspan ???


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

ONLY

18 megs of RELIABLE service would be awesome out here where some of my 
customers can't even get a meg due to all of the interference I have to deal 
with.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?


> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
> enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>> the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see
> that tower
>
> Anyone have any better ideas?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>> General
 List"
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>
>
>> Fellow operators:
>>
>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP?
>>
>> Any updates on experiences with:
>>
>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek,
>> Airspan ???
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>



>> 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/

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Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread D. Ryan Spott

WOW! You realize you can use the messenger as a ground right? I have  
been looking for this stuff for a while.

ryan


D. Ryan Spott
rsp...@cspott.com



On Mar 19, 2009, at 6:25 PM, George Rogato wrote:

> I got carried away searching for cables I also found this, it says  
> in stock:
>
> http://www.americantechsupply.com/chromatic_out.html
>
> Part Number-ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- (SPEC SHEET) Aerial- UV Rated CAT 5e  
> With
> Messenger- $ 169.00/1000 Feet We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!
>
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- INSTOCK! $ 169.99 Per 1000 Foot Box-Part Number :
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE- AERIAL CAT5E CABLE-
> Ideal For Roof to Roof- EMP- Light EMP Shielding- FOR USE ON CELL- 
> RADIO
> TOWERS-Dependability you can trust! Our product is backed by 15 year
> warranty, satisfaction guaranteed-We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH  
> CORDS!
>
> Part Number ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-CAT 5E SHIELDED - AERIAL- WITH
> MESSENGER-UV RATED
>
> Shielded CAT 5E OSP Rated Cable Part Number: ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV  
> Rated-
> ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE - THIS CABLE IS NOT GEL FILLED AND IS DESIGNED  
> TO
> USE IN BUILDING TO BUILDING EXTENTION OF TELEPHONE AND DATA ASERVICES
> SUCH AS DSL-BROADBAND- ETHERNET- CAN ALSO BE USED FOR ENVIRONMENTS  
> WITH
> emp- electromagnetic pulse radiation- OR 'NOISY' AREAS THAT CAN
> INTERFERE WITH DATA AND OR TELEPHONE TRANSMISSION. Dependability you  
> can
> trust! Our product is backed by 15 year warranty, satisfaction  
> guaranteed
>
> Call Us Today At (866) 650-3282 (DATA)
>
> George Rogato wrote:
>> http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Reed wrote:
>>> Yes that is the correct terminology.
>>> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we  
>>> have
>>> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it  
>>> as
>>> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around  
>>> that.  No
>>> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and  
>>> it does
>>> not droop, either.
>>>
>>> Jason Hensley wrote:
 Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a  
 light pole to
 a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a  
 "messenger"
 cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere  
 a year or
 so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is  
 available?  I've
 found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms -  
 aerial and
 self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful  
 for me.

 Thanks!



 
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 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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 Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date:  
 03/18/09 20:27:00


>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread John McDowell

wow...this is first time I have seen anything like this.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 8:25 PM, George Rogato  wrote:

> I got carried away searching for cables I also found this, it says in
> stock:
>
> http://www.americantechsupply.com/chromatic_out.html
>
> Part Number-ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- (SPEC SHEET) Aerial- UV Rated CAT 5e With
> Messenger- $ 169.00/1000 Feet We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!
>
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- INSTOCK! $ 169.99 Per 1000 Foot Box-Part Number :
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE- AERIAL CAT5E CABLE-
> Ideal For Roof to Roof- EMP- Light EMP Shielding- FOR USE ON CELL-RADIO
> TOWERS-Dependability you can trust! Our product is backed by 15 year
> warranty, satisfaction guaranteed-We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!
>
> Part Number ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-CAT 5E SHIELDED - AERIAL- WITH
> MESSENGER-UV RATED
>
> Shielded CAT 5E OSP Rated Cable Part Number: ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated-
> ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE - THIS CABLE IS NOT GEL FILLED AND IS DESIGNED TO
> USE IN BUILDING TO BUILDING EXTENTION OF TELEPHONE AND DATA ASERVICES
> SUCH AS DSL-BROADBAND- ETHERNET- CAN ALSO BE USED FOR ENVIRONMENTS WITH
> emp- electromagnetic pulse radiation- OR 'NOISY' AREAS THAT CAN
> INTERFERE WITH DATA AND OR TELEPHONE TRANSMISSION. Dependability you can
> trust! Our product is backed by 15 year warranty, satisfaction guaranteed
>
> Call Us Today At (866) 650-3282 (DATA)
>
> George Rogato wrote:
> > http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott Reed wrote:
> >> Yes that is the correct terminology.
> >> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we have
> >> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it as
> >> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around that.  No
> >> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and it does
> >> not droop, either.
> >>
> >> Jason Hensley wrote:
> >>> Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a light
> pole to
> >>> a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a
> "messenger"
> >>> cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere a
> year or
> >>> so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is available?
>  I've
> >>> found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms - aerial
> and
> >>> self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful for
> me.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> 
> >>>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date:
> 03/18/09 20:27:00
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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>
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>
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>



-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
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Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5

2009-03-19 Thread lakeland

Also note that you should buy a strand vise for each end of the messenger cable 
for mounting to an eye hook or something similar
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "D. Ryan Spott" 

Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:58:05 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aerial / Self-Support Cat5


WOW! You realize you can use the messenger as a ground right? I have  
been looking for this stuff for a while.

ryan


D. Ryan Spott
rsp...@cspott.com



On Mar 19, 2009, at 6:25 PM, George Rogato wrote:

> I got carried away searching for cables I also found this, it says  
> in stock:
>
> http://www.americantechsupply.com/chromatic_out.html
>
> Part Number-ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- (SPEC SHEET) Aerial- UV Rated CAT 5e  
> With
> Messenger- $ 169.00/1000 Feet We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH CORDS!
>
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT- INSTOCK! $ 169.99 Per 1000 Foot Box-Part Number :
> ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV Rated- ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE- AERIAL CAT5E CABLE-
> Ideal For Roof to Roof- EMP- Light EMP Shielding- FOR USE ON CELL- 
> RADIO
> TOWERS-Dependability you can trust! Our product is backed by 15 year
> warranty, satisfaction guaranteed-We Also Carry OUTDOOR RATED PATCH  
> CORDS!
>
> Part Number ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-CAT 5E SHIELDED - AERIAL- WITH
> MESSENGER-UV RATED
>
> Shielded CAT 5E OSP Rated Cable Part Number: ATSK5E-1KSTP-CMXT-UV  
> Rated-
> ALUMINUM SHIELD CABLE - THIS CABLE IS NOT GEL FILLED AND IS DESIGNED  
> TO
> USE IN BUILDING TO BUILDING EXTENTION OF TELEPHONE AND DATA ASERVICES
> SUCH AS DSL-BROADBAND- ETHERNET- CAN ALSO BE USED FOR ENVIRONMENTS  
> WITH
> emp- electromagnetic pulse radiation- OR 'NOISY' AREAS THAT CAN
> INTERFERE WITH DATA AND OR TELEPHONE TRANSMISSION. Dependability you  
> can
> trust! Our product is backed by 15 year warranty, satisfaction  
> guaranteed
>
> Call Us Today At (866) 650-3282 (DATA)
>
> George Rogato wrote:
>> http://www.hyperline.com/catalog/cable/ftp4_s_sw_out.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Reed wrote:
>>> Yes that is the correct terminology.
>>> I have not looked for that recently.  In the several instances we  
>>> have
>>> needed that, I have purchased steel "aircraft" cable and strung it  
>>> as
>>> the messenger.  Then we have loosely spiraled the cat5 around  
>>> that.  No
>>> worry about tape coming loose or wire ties pinching the wire and  
>>> it does
>>> not droop, either.
>>>
>>> Jason Hensley wrote:
 Got an application where I need an aerial run from an AP on a  
 light pole to
 a building - about 50ft or so.  I've seen the aerial Cat5 with a  
 "messenger"
 cable (is that the right terminology??) connected to it somewhere  
 a year or
 so ago, but can't find it again.  Anyone know if this is  
 available?  I've
 found fiber like this, but no Cat5/6.  Have seen both terms -  
 aerial and
 self-support Cat-5 used but neither search has been very helpful  
 for me.

 Thanks!



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 


 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.19/2010 - Release Date:  
 03/18/09 20:27:00


>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Matt Liotta

I think you may be missing a couple of variables in the multivariable  
equation that determines the actual throughput a client can achieve in  
a given time slice. When comparing access systems one must understand  
the differences between the capabilities provided by the systems and  
their result on these variables. You harp on throughput when the  
reality is that ISPs don't sell throughput; they sell capacity. The  
throughput of any given flow is variable based on a variety variables  
including RTT and congestion. Most applications that end users care  
about are TCP based, which means TCP's congestion algorithm comes into  
play most often. One important aspect of a TCP flow is slow start,  
which causes flows initially to have throughput less than the capacity  
of the transport layer. Considering that much of real world traffic  
never has time to get up to full speed, the capacity is rarely full  
utilized. However, when multiple flows operate on the same access  
layer at the same time all slow starting you are able get more  
efficient use of your capacity. Unfortunately, most end users simply  
do not have enough flows operating at the same time lasting long  
enough to fully utilize all of their capacity. The unused capacity is  
what allows for oversubscription. In other words, by sharing the  
capacity across a large enough number of end users you can get more  
efficient utilization of the overall available capacity.

Now the above may be nothing new to most of us, but how easily we  
forget that we sell capacity and leverage our client's inability to  
use all of that capacity because their throughput rarely achieves what  
is available capacity wise. This means we need access systems that  
very efficiently multiplex flows from an arbitrary number of end  
users. It is not about getting more throughput than the overall  
capacity of the system; it is about efficiently delivery the maximum  
available throughput when the end user actually needs it.

Your basic 802.11 wireless system does not efficiently share capacity  
across multiple stations, which results in stranded capacity. Compare  
this to a WiMAX system that is extremely efficient at sharing capacity  
across all connected stations. No system can allow the aggregate  
throughput of all stations to exceed the total capacity of the system,  
which would violate the law of physics.

In the real world, end users can't use all of their capacity all of  
the time. Therefore, the more efficiently you can share that capacity  
across multiple users the more users you can support on a given system  
without negatively impacting their throughput when they need it.

Comparing a WiMAX system to a Wi-Fi system you will always find the  
following:

* The WiMAX station will have a better signal-to-noise ratio
* The better signal-to-noise ratio will allow the WiMAX station to  
operate at a higher modulation with less ARQs
* The higher modulation with less ARQs will allow greater throughput  
per Mhz
* The greater throughput reduces the number of time slots needed to  
complete a flow
* The greater number of available time slots allows for more stations  
to participate

-Matt

On Mar 19, 2009, at 8:34 PM, rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

> Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before  
> the snake
> oil gets poured down the drain?
>
> The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of  
> transmission time
> for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth  
> nicely among
> the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...
>
> If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
> throughput.
>
> This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual
> throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This  
> snake oil
> about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit  
> through an 18
> mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well  
> over 50%
> of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of  
> managing
> bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL  
> THROUGHPUT IS
> REAL THROUGHPUT.
>
> If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a  
> little
> less than 6 each.
>
> Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE  
> BANDWIDTH
> TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're  
> all
> equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot  
> violate
> physics.
>
> The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation  
> types
> improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.
>
> NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.
>
> You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.
>
> You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype  
> based
> on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet.
> None of us
> operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates.
> We're
> all

[WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter

2009-03-19 Thread Kurt Fankhauser

Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have
the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is
going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the
Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application
since it can measure the peak wattage? 

 

I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the
peak or average???

 

http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sections
/portable-wattmeters?
 &forward=1

 

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter

2009-03-19 Thread eje

Problem with wifi stuff is it doesn't transmit if it don't have anything to 
say. 
So average measurement isn't that "great" since it will be based on you traffic 
how "high" the average is. 

You will be more interested in your peak since at least most wifi are 
predictable and the peak is what it transmits at and is what is interesting. 

Berkley Varitronics has their butterflies that are great testing instruments 
for an affordable price to measure output power.  

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:46:37 
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter


Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have
the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is
going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the
Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application
since it can measure the peak wattage? 

 

I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the
peak or average???

 

http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sections
/portable-wattmeters?
 &forward=1

 

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread George Rogato



Jeff Booher wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
> rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)
> 

I thought a rutabega was a vegitable.



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Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter

2009-03-19 Thread Kurt Fankhauser

How about if I did a bandwidth test while measuring the power. The meter is
analog and the needle doesn't move that fast so if its constantly TX/RX'ing
I'm thinking it should stay pretty flat.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter

Problem with wifi stuff is it doesn't transmit if it don't have anything to
say. 
So average measurement isn't that "great" since it will be based on you
traffic how "high" the average is. 

You will be more interested in your peak since at least most wifi are
predictable and the peak is what it transmits at and is what is interesting.


Berkley Varitronics has their butterflies that are great testing instruments
for an affordable price to measure output power.  

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:46:37 
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] 2.4ghz wattmeter


Does anyone have any experience with a Bird 43 wattmeter at 2.4ghz? I have
the bird 43 and am considering buying the 1 watt slug for it. This thing is
going to measure the average power instead of the peak power. Should the
Bird 43P (peak and avg) wattmeter be better suited for this application
since it can measure the peak wattage? 

 

I just don't know what I need to be measuring in the WIFI application, the
peak or average???

 

http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/viewitems/wattmeters-and-line-sections
/portable-wattmeters?
 &forward=1

 

 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com

 

 

 





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Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock

When my son was 6 he would not eat pork chops simply because he never had
tried them. He is 15 now and absolutely loves pork chops, grilled ribs etc.
It did take him till he was 13 before he tried them. I am a firm believer
you can't make kids eat anything they don't want to eat.
Mike, Have you tried WiMAX yet? If so how and with whom? 

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with 
other WISPs as often as I can.

However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house. 
My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay 
$500/month for it.

WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of them.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

--
From: "Matt Liotta" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
>> You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
>> where most
>> of us compete.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Matt Liotta" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
>>> per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
>>> complain.
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>>
 Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.

 In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
 having enough
 bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
 next and
 in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
 megabit.

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com

 --
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users
> on a
> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jeff Booher" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>> station,
>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>
>> -
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>> ]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>
>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>> Subject: R

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

I have not because no one has convinced me that 15 customers can watch 
online video at the same time.

Over 20% of my subscriber base watches online video from NetFlix, 
Blockbuster, ABC, NBC, etc.  Why would I spend $5k+ on an AP that would 
serve them less than my $250 AP does now?

I sure could put 2400 people on 18 megabit if it was 2001, but it is 2009, 
sorry.

BTW:  You certainly can make kids eat what they don't want.  After I sat at 
the table for 4 hours hungry, I picked up whatever it was in front of me and 
ate it.  Eat what mom prepared or don't eat at all.  I am a big boy now and 
eat what I choose, and because I was forced to eat what was in front of me 
when I was young, there's very little I won't eat.   I'm not sure how 
that works into your story, but do it as you see fit.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "John Rock" 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:03 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> When my son was 6 he would not eat pork chops simply because he never had
> tried them. He is 15 now and absolutely loves pork chops, grilled ribs 
> etc.
> It did take him till he was 13 before he tried them. I am a firm believer
> you can't make kids eat anything they don't want to eat.
> Mike, Have you tried WiMAX yet? If so how and with whom?
>
> John Rock
> Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
> Wireless Connections
> 166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857
> ACCessing the Future Today!!
> ofc. 419.660.6100
> cell 419-706-7356
> fax 419-668-4077
> http://www.wirelessconnections.net
> This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
> and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. 
> If
> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, 
> copying
> or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. 
> If
> you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
> reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> I am happy for you in your business, that's why I try to connect you with
> other WISPs as often as I can.
>
> However, I started my company because I didn't have broadband at my house.
> My neighbor didn't have broadband.  I sure as hell wasn't going to pay
> $500/month for it.
>
> WiMAX certainly has its places, but residential broadband isn't one of 
> them.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Matt Liotta" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:01 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Maybe the equipment isn't the problem then.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>>> You're not going to get that in the residential market, which is
>>> where most
>>> of us compete.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Matt Liotta" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:39 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
 We are seeing  around $500 ARPU and on average 6 customers deployed
 per 7Mhz channel with our RedMax basestations. I see no reason to
 complain.

 -Matt

 On Mar 19, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not
> having enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the
> next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread John Rock

Hey reader you are muddying the waters a bit here. 
I thought the days were over when people thought they could put up one base
station and serve a 1000 square miles or worse put up one base station and
server a 1000 customers. 
I have a customer in Canada that serves 12 Mb out to 45 kilometers via
WiMAX, LOS of course.

John Rock
Director of Operations - Senior Engineer
Wireless Connections
166 Milan Ave., Norwalk, Oh. 44857 
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ofc. 419.660.6100
cell 419-706-7356
fax  419-668-4077
http://www.wirelessconnections.net
This transmission and any files attached to it, may contain confidential
and/or privileged information and intended only for the named recipient. If
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination, disclosure, copying
or any use of the information or files contained is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by
reply transmission and delete this electronic mail.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

I can get 12 to 18 mbit off my 5 ghz AP's, and with customers limited to 
2Mbit, I'm still bumping into limits in the 30 - 45 range per AP,  and even 
then, I consider it oversubscribed.

Now, 18mbit throughput in 7 mhz is great...  But how good does the signal 
have to be, and when the signals degrade due to distance or... How much 
effect does this have? What's the distance you can do 18?   2 miles?   4

miles?   I need 25 miles...   I can't even GO 25 miles decently with 3.65, 
due to eirp limits.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however.
>
> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having 
> enough
> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next and
> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 
> megabit.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a
>> WiMAX AP anyway...  not enough bandwidth.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Jeff Booher" 
>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>
>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base
>>> station,
>>> that only supports 30 subscribers.
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp.
>>>
>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>>>
>>>
 Ligowave its ptp in 3.65...

 Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp

 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
 Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

 Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to
>> the
 UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today.

 Take care leon

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'm looking into this too.
>
> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers.  A 3 sector install
> at $20k?  Not to service the 20 people that will be

Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

2009-03-19 Thread Mike Hammett

Who says I'm happy with the status quo of 1.5 or even 6 meg?

BTW:  muddyfrogwater != Me

Yes, WiMAX is technically better than WiFi, but who says I'm talking about 
WiFi?

If there was a non-crippled WiMAX AP that supported reasonable amounts of 
bandwidth (40 at a minimum - say with a 20 MHz channel) and was available 
for $2000 or so, I'd be interested.  There isn't nor will there be any time 
soon, so I'll pass on WiMAX.

I just wish Company A would finish their product already so I can actually 
make product references in my arguments  assuming what they say is even 
half true...  and yes they are a company that's been around a few years.


I don't want to be a "me too" or a last resort.  I want to lead the pack.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jeff Booher" 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:12 PM
To: ; "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?

> Mike,
>
> This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to
> rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :)
>
> Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an
> 802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user
> experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from
> simple issues with the scheduler.  I don't know of a single 802.11 based
> system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations.
>
> Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector 
> in
> reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you
> can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base
> station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6
> pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 
> mb
> pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location.
>
> Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in
> modulation, error rate, latencythat it can support many many voice 
> over
> ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per
> sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you
> increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your
> effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in
> 5.8ghz of 10 miles plus.
>
> So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many
> different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 
> miles
> with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz
> channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case
> issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies 
> that
> is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions 
> that
> can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. 
> We
> know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no
> arugment there.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> _
>
> Jeff Booher
>
> Sales Director, North America
> www.apertonet.com
>
>
>
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us]
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM
> To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
>
> Sheesh.   How many times must this misinformation be posted before the 
> snake
>
> oil gets poured down the drain?
>
> The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission 
> time
> for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely 
> among
> the oversubscribed.   HOWEVER...
>
> If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total
> throughput.
>
> This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual
> throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date.   This snake oil
> about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an 
> 18
> mbit pipe is nonsense.802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over 
> 50%
> of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing
> bandwidth use or dividing use among the users.   However, REAL THROUGHPUT 
> IS
>
> REAL THROUGHPUT.
>
> If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little
> less than 6 each.
>
> Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH
> TO FEED IT.   Get it?  So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all
> equal priority, all 4 get about 4.   Duhh.  That's it.   You cannot 
> violate
> physics.
>
> The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types
> improve throughput vs spectrum consumption.
>
> NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.
>
> You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole.   Period.
>
> You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based
> on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the to

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