Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Interesting. I don't doubt it, but have to think about that for a bit to wrap my head around it. Anyway... we use the PacWireless DCE enclosures for 90% of things (we use 411-form-factor boards in almost everything). We bought like 100 of them, and still have a few around for this or that. If you're running 433/333/600 you need a larger enclosure. There is a new one out, I think Microcom was claiming it, but I've seen it on Streakwave and WISP I think? It's f'ing expensive though. We also used some of the larger ones sold by WISP. They have 4 hex-screws in each corner, and either 2 or 4 N-holes in the bottom. The Ethernet pass-thru is JUNK and unshielded. Better yet, the last box we installed, when we went to service it on a tower, opened and the climber got doused (not douched!) with water. It was full. Stay away from those. On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:41 PM, MDK wrote: > Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. > > Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). > > > > -- > From: "Josh Luthman" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use > > steel if not? > > > > I use these: > > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= > > > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > > wrote: > > > >> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all > >> radios > >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep > >> them > >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. > >> marlon > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Mike" > >> To: "WISPA General List" > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > >> > >> > >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > >> > > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > >> > > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > >> > > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the > >> >>box, > >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in > >> >>their > >> >>own > >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to > >> >>a > >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > >> That's > >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone > >> >>a > >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a > >> >>doing > >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> >> > >> >>Bob- > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>-Original Message- > >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >>Behalf Of Mike > >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >> >>To: WISPA General List > >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> >> > >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >> >>another one listening. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > >> push > >> >> >3 > >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your > >> >> >customer > >> >>base. > >> >> > > >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it > into > >> >> >2 > >> >> >180 > >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few > more > >> >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > >> just > >> >> >do > >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you > to > >> >> >where > >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for > >> >> >more > >> >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMappingPrograms...
Chuck, This: *http://tinyurl.com/ycrnc2f ??* On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: > I am very satisfied with the Hanns-G monitor from costco.com 28" 1080 wide > screen $300.00 > > < > > http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11503005&cm_mmc=BCEmail_475 > -_-FOCUS-_-27-_-HannsG28Monitor > > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:48 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution > forMappingPrograms... > > On top of it the samsung units play nice together. Got samsung led TV, > samsung blueray and a samsung soundbar. And wireless subwoffer. Turn on the > TV and sound and tv comes on, select blueray source and blue ray comes on. > Don't matter if you use the blue ray remote opr the tv remote. Ahh the > relif > and ease to make all the cool stuff work ubiquisily. > Out of the box on top of everything (getting spoiled with old age) > > /Eje > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:33:16 > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for >MappingPrograms... > > We've moved to Samsung monitors. And the home TV is Samsung too. I LOVE > these units. Much much better on the eyes than anything I've ever used > short of a good quality CRT. > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "AJ" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for > MappingPrograms... > > > >I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various > > infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in > a > > Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim > > picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the > > warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. > > Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without > > having > > to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... > > > > Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring > > applications up... > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > > > >> Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open > with > >> Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more > >> Winbox > >> windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... > >> > >> I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have > >> even > >> found myself looking for more on occasion! > >> > >> We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent > >> resolution, > >> but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any > >> first > >> person shooter game is impressive. LOL! > >> > >> My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second > >> monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of > >> anything > >> other than network status information or general web browsing. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> > >> Brad > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going > up > >> exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller > >> resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. > >> > >> I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but > >> I'm > >> thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display > for > > >> a > >> rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, > >> server > >> > >> status, network utilizations, etc.). > >> > >> > >> - > >> Mike Hammett > >> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >> http://www.ics-il.com > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> From: "Brad Belton" > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM > >> To: "'WISPA General List'" > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my > twin > >> > 30" > >> > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of > >> > playground. > >> > > >> > > >> > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > >> > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > >> > > >> > > >> > Brad > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -Original Message- > >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> > Behalf Of Robert West > >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > >> > To: 'WISPA General List' > >> > Subject:
Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.
Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do. Chuck On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote: > I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to. > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > >> >> >> < >> http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/> >> >> Scottie >> >> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as >> $30.00/mth. >> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 "When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
If I could find some at anything like a reasonable cost, I'd have that answer :) -- From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:44 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Can you tell me where you get your steel boxes? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --- Albert Einstein > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:41 AM, MDK wrote: > >> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. >> >> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Josh Luthman" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally >> > use >> > steel if not? >> > >> > I use these: >> > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= >> > >> > Josh Luthman >> > Office: 937-552-2340 >> > Direct: 937-552-2343 >> > 1100 Wayne St >> > Suite 1337 >> > Troy, OH 45373 >> > >> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >> > --- Albert Einstein >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all >> >> radios >> >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep >> >> them >> >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. >> >> marlon >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> >> From: "Mike" >> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >> >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> >> >> >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> >> > >> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> >> > >> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> >> > >> >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been >> >> > an >> >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> >> > >> >> > Mike >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >> >> >>box, >> >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >> >> >>their >> >> >>own >> >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's >> >> >>to >> >> >>a >> >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >> >> That's >> >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from >> >> >>someone >> >> >>a >> >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >> >> >>doing >> >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >> >> >> >> >>Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >> >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> >> >>Behalf Of Mike >> >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >> >> >>To: WISPA General List >> >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> >> >> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >> >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >> >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >> >> >>another one listening. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough >> >> >> >to >> >> push >> >> >> >3 >> >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >> >> >> >customer >> >> >>base. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it >> into >> >> >> >2 >> >> >> >180 >> >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few >> more >> >> >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if >> >> >> >you >> >> just >> >> >> >do >> >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you >> to >> >> >> >where >> >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >> >> >> >more >> >> >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one >> >> >> >per >> >> >>sector. >> >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, >> >> >> >I >> >> only >> >> >> >d
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
There was 123 of you. If anyone else can't find me, http://www.facebook.com/mhammett WISPA is at: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113477928691&ref=ts - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:50 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > OK, so I am a long time computer/radio geek, but have never done facebook. > > I created a facebook. Is that the proper term? Then, all hell broke > lose!!! Holy moly I have more friends than I thought I had. Stuff > started popping up, it told me Eudora is bad and it can't import my > address book, and an old friend who must be a facebook stalker > INSTANTLY added me as her friend. > > Holy crap, what have I done? > > Mike, add me, I can't seem to find you. Besides, you'll want to see > the pic of the woman who added me as her friend. :-) > Mike Gilchrist. I want to see those pics. > > OK, maybe this will be fun BESIDES a tremendous waste of time. > > hahahahah Mike > > > At 01:03 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>I put them up on my FaceBook. They say you can share your albums with >>people not on FaceBook, but in the testing I did... apparently it just >>takes them to a signup page first. They're there if you're on FaceBook. >> >>If you're looking for me, I'm not sure how many Mike Hammetts there are, >>but >>I'm sure there's only 1 WISPA and only 1 Mike Hammett in WISPA, so search >>for WISPA. >> >> >>- >>Mike Hammett >>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >>-- >>From: "Mike" >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM >>To: "WISPA General List" >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll >> > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, >> > but no 411s. >> > >> > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided >> > tape? Does it hold in the cold? >> > >> > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put >> > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on >> > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. >> > >> > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular >> > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. >> > >> > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I >> > look? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an >> >>XR5 >> >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and >> >>all >> >>the >> >>PoE business. >> >> >> >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. >> >> >> >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, >> >>but >> >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the >> >>base >> >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's >> >>back >> >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >> >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >> >>another. >> >> >> >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >> >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I >> >>didn't >> >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >> >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would >> >>lock >> >>up and I couldn't determine the source. >> >> >> >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards >> >>into. >> >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This >> >>exact >> >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any >> >>problems >> >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. >> >> >> >> >> >>- >> >>Mike Hammett >> >>Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >>http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >>From: "Mike" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >> >>To: "WISPA General List" >> >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> >> > >> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> >> > >> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> >> > >> >> > How about the receive sens
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Can you tell me where you get your steel boxes? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." --- Albert Einstein On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:41 AM, MDK wrote: > Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. > > Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). > > > > -- > From: "Josh Luthman" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use > > steel if not? > > > > I use these: > > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= > > > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > > wrote: > > > >> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all > >> radios > >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep > >> them > >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. > >> marlon > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Mike" > >> To: "WISPA General List" > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > >> > >> > >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > >> > > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > >> > > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > >> > > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the > >> >>box, > >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in > >> >>their > >> >>own > >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to > >> >>a > >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > >> That's > >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone > >> >>a > >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a > >> >>doing > >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> >> > >> >>Bob- > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>-Original Message- > >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >>Behalf Of Mike > >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >> >>To: WISPA General List > >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> >> > >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >> >>another one listening. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > >> push > >> >> >3 > >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your > >> >> >customer > >> >>base. > >> >> > > >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it > into > >> >> >2 > >> >> >180 > >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few > more > >> >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > >> just > >> >> >do > >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you > to > >> >> >where > >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for > >> >> >more > >> >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >> >>sector. > >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I > >> only > >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >> >remote > >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card > >> >> >as > >> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of > >> >> >course > >> >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> >> > > >> >> >Bob- > >> >> > > >>
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). -- From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use > steel if not? > > I use these: > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --- Albert Einstein > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: > >> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all >> radios >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep >> them >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Mike" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >> >>box, >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >> >>their >> >>own >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >> >>a >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >> That's >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >> >>a >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >> >>doing >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >> >> >>Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >>Behalf Of Mike >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >> >>To: WISPA General List >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >> >>another one listening. >> >> >> >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to >> push >> >> >3 >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >> >> >customer >> >>base. >> >> > >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into >> >> >2 >> >> >180 >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you >> just >> >> >do >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> >> >where >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >> >> >more >> >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >> >>sector. >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I >> only >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> >> >remote >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card >> >> >as >> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of >> >> >course >> >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >> >> > >> >> >Bob- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >-Original Message- >> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >> >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >> >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> > >> >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >> >> >get >> >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >> >> >times, >> >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1me
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMappingPrograms...
I am very satisfied with the Hanns-G monitor from costco.com 28" 1080 wide screen $300.00 < http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11503005&cm_mmc=BCEmail_475 -_-FOCUS-_-27-_-HannsG28Monitor > -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMappingPrograms... On top of it the samsung units play nice together. Got samsung led TV, samsung blueray and a samsung soundbar. And wireless subwoffer. Turn on the TV and sound and tv comes on, select blueray source and blue ray comes on. Don't matter if you use the blue ray remote opr the tv remote. Ahh the relif and ease to make all the cool stuff work ubiquisily. Out of the box on top of everything (getting spoiled with old age) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:33:16 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms... We've moved to Samsung monitors. And the home TV is Samsung too. I LOVE these units. Much much better on the eyes than anything I've ever used short of a good quality CRT. marlon - Original Message - From: "AJ" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms... >I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various > infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a > Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim > picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the > warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. > Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without > having > to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... > > Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring > applications up... > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > >> Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with >> Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more >> Winbox >> windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... >> >> I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have >> even >> found myself looking for more on occasion! >> >> We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent >> resolution, >> but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any >> first >> person shooter game is impressive. LOL! >> >> My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second >> monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of >> anything >> other than network status information or general web browsing. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up >> exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller >> resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. >> >> I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but >> I'm >> thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for >> a >> rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, >> server >> >> status, network utilizations, etc.). >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Brad Belton" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin >> > 30" >> > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of >> > playground. >> > >> > >> > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display >> > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! >> > >> > >> > Brad >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Robert West >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the >> > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just >> > because you can't read 8pt type! >> > >> > :) >> > >> > (Joke) >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use steel if not? I use these: http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all > radios > in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them > at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I > only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to > >> >get > >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak > >> >times, > >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but > >> >that's > >> >not happening very often right now. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >Behalf Of Robert West > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? > >>Just > >> >curious. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wire
Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.
I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to. On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: > > > < > http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/> > > Scottie > > Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as > $30.00/mth. > Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Facebook Nightmare
If you want some real enemies, just take down their internet access for a day or so :) Even better, I used to be a GM at a cable company. Try having an outage during prime time - they'll hunt you down with pitchforks & sling blades! -RickG On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Robert West wrote: > I tried facebook, gave it up. Too much social in those social networking > sites. I decided to join up with InYourFacebook.com instead, the new > Anti-Social networking site. I signed up, found a few of my old enemies, > added them to my list and after only a couple of weeks I now have over 15 > new enemies! Go look around, register and click to become my enemy! I > look > forward to seeing you there and being your enemy! > > Not a real site, but I wish it was.. > > Bob- > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:51 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > OK, so I am a long time computer/radio geek, but have never done facebook. > > I created a facebook. Is that the proper term? Then, all hell broke > lose!!! Holy moly I have more friends than I thought I had. Stuff > started popping up, it told me Eudora is bad and it can't import my > address book, and an old friend who must be a facebook stalker > INSTANTLY added me as her friend. > > Holy crap, what have I done? > > Mike, add me, I can't seem to find you. Besides, you'll want to see > the pic of the woman who added me as her friend. :-) > Mike Gilchrist. I want to see those pics. > > OK, maybe this will be fun BESIDES a tremendous waste of time. > > hahahahah Mike > > > At 01:03 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >I put them up on my FaceBook. They say you can share your albums with > >people not on FaceBook, but in the testing I did... apparently it just > >takes them to a signup page first. They're there if you're on FaceBook. > > > >If you're looking for me, I'm not sure how many Mike Hammetts there are, > but > >I'm sure there's only 1 WISPA and only 1 Mike Hammett in WISPA, so search > >for WISPA. > > > > > >- > >Mike Hammett > >Intelligent Computing Solutions > >http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > > >-- > >From: "Mike" > >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM > >To: "WISPA General List" > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > > > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll > > > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, > > > but no 411s. > > > > > > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided > > > tape? Does it hold in the cold? > > > > > > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put > > > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on > > > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. > > > > > > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular > > > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. > > > > > > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I > look? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > > >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an > XR5 > > >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and > all > > >>the > > >>PoE business. > > >> > > >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > > >> > > >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, > > >>but > > >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the > base > > >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's > > >>back > > >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the > > >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see > > >>another. > > >> > > >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 > > >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I > > >>didn't > > >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method > > >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would > > >>lock > > >>up and I couldn't determine the source. > > >> > > >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards > into. > > >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This > > >>exact > > >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any > problems > > >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >> > > >> > > >>- > > >>Mike Hammett > > >>Intelligent Computing Solutions > > >>http://www.ics-il.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>From: "Mike" > > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM > > >>To: "WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
I make sure they know what I'm doing. We don't lie to people. We also buy the top of the line business grade account from them. We get better speeds and they can't bitch about how many people we put on the connection. marlon - Original Message - From: "Mike" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:59 PM Subject: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came > up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as > backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with > them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell > them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these > entities. > > Mike > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.
< http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/ > Scottie Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMappingPrograms...
On top of it the samsung units play nice together. Got samsung led TV, samsung blueray and a samsung soundbar. And wireless subwoffer. Turn on the TV and sound and tv comes on, select blueray source and blue ray comes on. Don't matter if you use the blue ray remote opr the tv remote. Ahh the relif and ease to make all the cool stuff work ubiquisily. Out of the box on top of everything (getting spoiled with old age) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:33:16 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms... We've moved to Samsung monitors. And the home TV is Samsung too. I LOVE these units. Much much better on the eyes than anything I've ever used short of a good quality CRT. marlon - Original Message - From: "AJ" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms... >I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various > infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a > Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim > picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the > warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. > Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without > having > to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... > > Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring > applications up... > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > >> Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with >> Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more >> Winbox >> windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... >> >> I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have >> even >> found myself looking for more on occasion! >> >> We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent >> resolution, >> but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any >> first >> person shooter game is impressive. LOL! >> >> My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second >> monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of >> anything >> other than network status information or general web browsing. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up >> exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller >> resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. >> >> I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but >> I'm >> thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for >> a >> rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, >> server >> >> status, network utilizations, etc.). >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Brad Belton" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin >> > 30" >> > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of >> > playground. >> > >> > >> > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display >> > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! >> > >> > >> > Brad >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Robert West >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the >> > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just >> > because you can't read 8pt type! >> > >> > :) >> > >> > (Joke) >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of rwf >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer >> > (assuming >> > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. >> > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" >> > that >> > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> >
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures next to their antennas on the tower. Even on the most RF-jam packed sites. One site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just holding it in your hands. And there they are with their plastic enclosures. And can't figure out why their system sucks ass. Oh well. They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and equipment. It makes me laugh everytime I see it. On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all > radios > in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them > at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I > only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to > >> >get > >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak > >> >times, > >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but > >> >that's > >> >not happening very often right now. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >Behalf Of Robert West > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms...
We've moved to Samsung monitors. And the home TV is Samsung too. I LOVE these units. Much much better on the eyes than anything I've ever used short of a good quality CRT. marlon - Original Message - From: "AJ" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for MappingPrograms... >I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various > infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a > Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim > picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the > warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. > Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without > having > to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... > > Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring > applications up... > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > >> Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with >> Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more >> Winbox >> windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... >> >> I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have >> even >> found myself looking for more on occasion! >> >> We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent >> resolution, >> but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any >> first >> person shooter game is impressive. LOL! >> >> My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second >> monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of >> anything >> other than network status information or general web browsing. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up >> exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller >> resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. >> >> I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but >> I'm >> thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for >> a >> rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, >> server >> >> status, network utilizations, etc.). >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Brad Belton" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin >> > 30" >> > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of >> > playground. >> > >> > >> > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display >> > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! >> > >> > >> > Brad >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Robert West >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the >> > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just >> > because you can't read 8pt type! >> > >> > :) >> > >> > (Joke) >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of rwf >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer >> > (assuming >> > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. >> > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" >> > that >> > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Brad Belton >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> > To: 'WISPA General List' >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> > >> > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great >> > path >> > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a >> > long >> > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our >> > industry >> > needs. >> > >> > www.wispmon.com >> > >> > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using >> > the >> > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile.
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all radios in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. marlon - Original Message - From: "Mike" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > Mike > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their >>own >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >>Bob- >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>Behalf Of Mike >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>To: WISPA General List >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>another one listening. >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push >> >3 >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >>base. >> > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 >> >180 >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just >> >do >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> >where >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>sector. >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> >remote >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >> >get >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >> >times, >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >> >that's >> >not happening very often right now. >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Robert West >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? >>Just >> >curious. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >> >To: WISPA General List >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of >> >horsepower on the AP's CPU? >> > >> >Greg >> >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: >> > >> > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, >> > > or >> > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP >> > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've >> > > seen a >>
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
No, I'm saying I use the SMC as the fallback access. One gateway sitting in a bean field and a second at my house. If the main access gets zapped I can redirect the traffic to the 2 cheapo connections. I just hate those SMC modems. They get hot, not good for one sitting inside an enclosed NEMA box on top of a wooden pole in a bean field. So I took the case off the modem, put a heat sink and fan on it and wired the fan to the power connector. TW installer had to be convinced it was their equipment before he hooked their line to the box. They aren't used to naked electronics. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity Switch to fiber and you get much better equipment. -RickG On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Robert West wrote: > I was totally upfront and honest with Time Warner. We have a business > account and we use the broadband to operate our business. I had our TW > salesperson ( I insisted ) that they talk to his higher up people to get > the > okay and got it in writing that we are an ISP and that falls within using > the access in a business. So I have one of their SMC crap modems. > sigh. taken apart with a fan and heatsink on it and it sits as a fall > back as well as my road runner at home. > > All above board. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:00 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity > > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came > up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as > backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with > them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell > them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these > entities. > > Mike > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Facebook Nightmare
I tried facebook, gave it up. Too much social in those social networking sites. I decided to join up with InYourFacebook.com instead, the new Anti-Social networking site. I signed up, found a few of my old enemies, added them to my list and after only a couple of weeks I now have over 15 new enemies! Go look around, register and click to become my enemy! I look forward to seeing you there and being your enemy! Not a real site, but I wish it was.. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure OK, so I am a long time computer/radio geek, but have never done facebook. I created a facebook. Is that the proper term? Then, all hell broke lose!!! Holy moly I have more friends than I thought I had. Stuff started popping up, it told me Eudora is bad and it can't import my address book, and an old friend who must be a facebook stalker INSTANTLY added me as her friend. Holy crap, what have I done? Mike, add me, I can't seem to find you. Besides, you'll want to see the pic of the woman who added me as her friend. :-) Mike Gilchrist. I want to see those pics. OK, maybe this will be fun BESIDES a tremendous waste of time. hahahahah Mike At 01:03 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I put them up on my FaceBook. They say you can share your albums with >people not on FaceBook, but in the testing I did... apparently it just >takes them to a signup page first. They're there if you're on FaceBook. > >If you're looking for me, I'm not sure how many Mike Hammetts there are, but >I'm sure there's only 1 WISPA and only 1 Mike Hammett in WISPA, so search >for WISPA. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll > > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, > > but no 411s. > > > > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided > > tape? Does it hold in the cold? > > > > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put > > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on > > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. > > > > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular > > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. > > > > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? > > > > Mike > > > > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 > >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all > >>the > >>PoE business. > >> > >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >> > >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, > >>but > >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base > >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's > >>back > >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the > >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see > >>another. > >> > >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 > >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I > >>didn't > >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method > >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would > >>lock > >>up and I couldn't determine the source. > >> > >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. > >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This > >>exact > >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems > >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > >> > >> > >>- > >>Mike Hammett > >>Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>http://www.ics-il.com > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>From: "Mike" > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM > >>To: "WISPA General List" > >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > >> > >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > >> > > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > >> > > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I
Re: [WISPA] Awnser to how Airspan got the upper 3.65 ghz bandunlocked!
They described CSMA in different language.By every reasonable comparison, the 802.11a protocol addresses every concern the FCC has, but would not certify... -- From: "Matt" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:21 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Awnser to how Airspan got the upper 3.65 ghz bandunlocked! >> PDF of the contention based protocol > > GPS sync would have been so much better if everyone could agree on > standardized time slices. This will have an impact on VOIP and gaming > the way I read it. > > Matt > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] "Take Rate” Calculations for US Broa dband -- 72.9% of Homes Passed Subscribe - Ho w does your network compare?
Answers below: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > To All; > The final version of the Broadband Take Rate Brief ( > http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Take%20Rate%20Brief.pdf) was released this > week. The report describes broadband adoption rates on a state by state > basis calculated against only the households that have access to broadband, > not averaged over all homes in the state. The National Average is > 72.9%.Take > a look to see how your state stacks up. > > I'd like to conduct an informal survey. On or off list response are fine. > > 1 - Do you have coverage areas where you are the only broadband carrier? > Yes. > > 2 - If so, do you have a take rate in those areas that match the state > statistics in the report? > No. > > 3 - Do you know how many households are passed by your network? > Yes. > > 4 - Do you accurately know if you are maximizing the take rate (and > investment) on your existing AP sites before you expand to build others? > Maybe. > > 5 - What are your most successful advertising method(s)? > Word of mouth. > > 6 - How Many other broadband competitors are in your service area? > Two. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Awnser to how Airspan got the upper 3.65 ghz band unlocked!
> PDF of the contention based protocol GPS sync would have been so much better if everyone could agree on standardized time slices. This will have an impact on VOIP and gaming the way I read it. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
Switch to fiber and you get much better equipment. -RickG On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Robert West wrote: > I was totally upfront and honest with Time Warner. We have a business > account and we use the broadband to operate our business. I had our TW > salesperson ( I insisted ) that they talk to his higher up people to get > the > okay and got it in writing that we are an ISP and that falls within using > the access in a business. So I have one of their SMC crap modems. > sigh. taken apart with a fan and heatsink on it and it sits as a fall > back as well as my road runner at home. > > All above board. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:00 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity > > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came > up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as > backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with > them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell > them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these > entities. > > Mike > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
OK, so I am a long time computer/radio geek, but have never done facebook. I created a facebook. Is that the proper term? Then, all hell broke lose!!! Holy moly I have more friends than I thought I had. Stuff started popping up, it told me Eudora is bad and it can't import my address book, and an old friend who must be a facebook stalker INSTANTLY added me as her friend. Holy crap, what have I done? Mike, add me, I can't seem to find you. Besides, you'll want to see the pic of the woman who added me as her friend. :-) Mike Gilchrist. I want to see those pics. OK, maybe this will be fun BESIDES a tremendous waste of time. hahahahah Mike At 01:03 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I put them up on my FaceBook. They say you can share your albums with >people not on FaceBook, but in the testing I did... apparently it just >takes them to a signup page first. They're there if you're on FaceBook. > >If you're looking for me, I'm not sure how many Mike Hammetts there are, but >I'm sure there's only 1 WISPA and only 1 Mike Hammett in WISPA, so search >for WISPA. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll > > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, > > but no 411s. > > > > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided > > tape? Does it hold in the cold? > > > > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put > > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on > > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. > > > > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular > > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. > > > > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? > > > > Mike > > > > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 > >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all > >>the > >>PoE business. > >> > >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >> > >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, > >>but > >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base > >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's > >>back > >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the > >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see > >>another. > >> > >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 > >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I > >>didn't > >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method > >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would > >>lock > >>up and I couldn't determine the source. > >> > >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. > >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This > >>exact > >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems > >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > >> > >> > >>- > >>Mike Hammett > >>Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>http://www.ics-il.com > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>From: "Mike" > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM > >>To: "WISPA General List" > >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > >> > >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > >> > > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > >> > > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > >> > > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > >> > > >> > Mike > >> > > >> > > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the > >> >>box, > >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in > >> >>their > >> >>own > >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to > >> >>a > >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that is
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Mike, Have you got any pictures of that ? It would be worth seeing for sure Cheers, Robert Mike Hammett wrote: > I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 > in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the > PoE business. > > Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > > I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but > I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base > to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back > wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the > bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see > another. > > Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 > (modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't > have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method > because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock > up and I couldn't determine the source. > > The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. > When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact > setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems > yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Mike" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > >> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> >> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> >> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> >> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >> issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> >> Mike >> >> >> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their >>> own >>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >>> couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >>> >>> Bob- >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Mike >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>> spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>> another one listening. >>> >>> >>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >>> base. >>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>> sector. >>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics of it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
>> Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is >> often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. >Currently there is just one "Path Loss" value which takes into account >multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed >separately? Matt, The PDF that prints out only lists link availability due to rain. If diffraction and multipath were considered, that path profile I sent to the list would show a 0% reliability... It would be nice if they were separate line items either way... so you can tell if your issue is multipath/diffraction related or rain fade related. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hardy Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 14:35 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: > I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains > :-) > LOL... most 11GHz can't, only LigoWave. ;) We'll look into this and see what's going on with this link. > Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is > often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. Currently there is just one "Path Loss" value which takes into account multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed separately? > > I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity > as the default values when everyone is interested in the "320Mbps" > throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level > required. This is a good point, we debated about this but for the first release we decided to list the default values for "making the link work", not necessarily the highest performance. We're thinking of ways to make this more clear... maybe adding an option for modulation/speed along with radio model. > > Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators > out there. Thanks, we really do appreciate it :) -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 14:35 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: > I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains > :-) > LOL... most 11GHz can't, only LigoWave. ;) We'll look into this and see what's going on with this link. > Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is > often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. Currently there is just one "Path Loss" value which takes into account multipath and diffraction. Would you like to see it displayed separately? > > I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity > as the default values when everyone is interested in the "320Mbps" > throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level > required. This is a good point, we debated about this but for the first release we decided to list the default values for "making the link work", not necessarily the highest performance. We're thinking of ways to make this more clear... maybe adding an option for modulation/speed along with radio model. > > Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators > out there. Thanks, we really do appreciate it :) -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
I was totally upfront and honest with Time Warner. We have a business account and we use the broadband to operate our business. I had our TW salesperson ( I insisted ) that they talk to his higher up people to get the okay and got it in writing that we are an ISP and that falls within using the access in a business. So I have one of their SMC crap modems. sigh. taken apart with a fan and heatsink on it and it sits as a fall back as well as my road runner at home. All above board. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity We were having a private conversation off-list and something came up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these entities. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
When we had our DSL backbone, using Qwest was a no-go but using a DSL reseller (private label DSL) was more than happy to get up squared away... I think at the time the pricing was within $30/mo between the private reseller and Qwest... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Ryan Spott wrote: > Use an ISP that allows for reselling, then it is not an issue. > > Megapath comes to mind. > > ryan > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Mike wrote: > > > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came > > up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as > > backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with > > them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell > > them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these > > entities. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
As to WispmonWe've actually restructured the pricing plan since MUM with all the great feedback we got there. We also have a "Wispmon Sales Edition" out which is pretty low cost considering what it does. I'm not sure you'll find another piece of software that will run three simultaneous profiles from the three closest towers to your potential customer in less than 1 second with a single click. It sure has saved a bundle on physical site surveys for the Wisp side of our organization. It can be subscription based per year or permanent at your location. We offer a free 30 day trial on the full blown version as well, so if you want to check it out, feel free. This is not the "better let us know in 30 days or we'll charge you out the wassu" either. It really is just a trial. Regards, Cameron RickG wrote: > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > >> Me = Cheap >> >> RadioMobile = Free >> >> Wispmon = Yikes! >> >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I >> didn't feel that price. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry >> needs. >> >> www.wispmon.com >> >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> 607-643-4055 Voice >> 607-435-3988 Mobile >> 208-692-1898 Fax >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >>> Another >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >>> see >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >>> rate? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >>> >>> Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >>> RF. >>> It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > >> Customer >> >>> is >>> > building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > >>> must >>> > work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > -RickG > > > >>> --- >>> >> - >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> --- >>> >> - >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >
Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
Use an ISP that allows for reselling, then it is not an issue. Megapath comes to mind. ryan On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Mike wrote: > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came > up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as > backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with > them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell > them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these > entities. > > Mike > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity
We were having a private conversation off-list and something came up. I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as backup or to feed some of your remote sites. How do you deal with them? Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP? Do you tell them? Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these entities. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Hello, LOL, I think the disclaimer as the bottom of the page cover this! "DISCLAIMER: These results are provided with no guarantee or warranty." -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I must have missed the day Ligowave announced 11GHz can go through mountains :-) Your calculator gives no indication of diffraction and multipath... which is often larger issues with licensed gear than rain fading. I'd also question you using the QPSK transmit power and receive sensitivity as the default values when everyone is interested in the "320Mbps" throughput, which is considerably less power and a much higher receive level required. Constructive criticism... this is one of the better manufacturer calculators out there. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hardy Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link It actually does take into account terrain data... Let us know if you have any other questions or suggestions for improvement. -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 13:29 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: > One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, > or really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is > really a glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface > and the terrain > profile. > > It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain > yourself :-) > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot > all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using > it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close > to your true > results? Any significant fudge factor on it? > > Thanks! > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Michael Baird > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be > established though. > > http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html > > Regards > Michael Baird > > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. > I > > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. > > Uh I gotta eat. > > > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of RickG > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high > > dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software > > to give you reliable results. -RickG > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > > wrote: > > > > > >> Me = Cheap > >> > >> RadioMobile = Free > >> > >> Wispmon = Yikes! > >> > >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers > >> before I > >> didn't feel that price. > >> > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org > >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a > >> great path > >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product > >> is a > >> > > long > > > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > >> needs. > >> > >> www.wispmon.com > >> > >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself > >> using > >> > > the > > > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> > >> Brad > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org > >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > >> > >> > >> Thank You, > >> Brian Webster > >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 > >> www.wir
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
It actually does take into account terrain data... Let us know if you have any other questions or suggestions for improvement. -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 13:29 -0700, 3-dB Networks wrote: > One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, or > really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is really a > glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface and the terrain > profile. > > It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain > yourself :-) > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all > about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for > non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true > results? Any significant fudge factor on it? > > Thanks! > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Michael Baird > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be > established though. > > http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html > > Regards > Michael Baird > > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. > I > > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > > gotta eat. > > > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of RickG > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > > reliable results. -RickG > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > > wrote: > > > > > >> Me = Cheap > >> > >> RadioMobile = Free > >> > >> Wispmon = Yikes! > >> > >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I > >> didn't feel that price. > >> > >> > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Brad Belton > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > >> > > long > > > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > >> needs. > >> > >> www.wispmon.com > >> > >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > >> > > the > > > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> > >> Brad > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Brian Webster > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > >> > >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > >> > >> > >> Thank You, > >> Brian Webster > >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 > >> www.wirelessmapping.com > >> 607-643-4055 Voice > >> 607-435-3988 Mobile > >> 208-692-1898 Fax > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > >> > >> > >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > >>> Another > >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not > >>> > > feeling > > > >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > >>> see > >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > >>> rate? > >>> -RickG > >>> > >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > >>> > >>> > Rick: > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > > >>> RF. > >>> > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > engineer a link with single radios. > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical >
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
One thing I have noticed... it does not take into account multipath, or really anything else dealing with the terrain. The calculator is really a glorified free space loss calculator with a slick interface and the terrain profile. It seems to function well... but you have to take into account terrain yourself :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:16 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true results? Any significant fudge factor on it? Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > >> Me = Cheap >> >> RadioMobile = Free >> >> Wispmon = Yikes! >> >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I >> didn't feel that price. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a >> > long > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry >> needs. >> >> www.wispmon.com >> >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using >> > the > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> 607-643-4055 Voice >> 607-435-3988 Mobile >> 208-692-1898 Fax >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >>> Another >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not >>> > feeling > >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >>> see >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >>> rate? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >>> >>> Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >>> RF. >>> It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/200
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Hey, ya know I used that thing a few times a year or so ago but forgot all about it. Thanks for pointing me back to it! Any tips on using it for non-lingo equipment? Are the custom calculations fairly close to your true results? Any significant fudge factor on it? Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > >> Me = Cheap >> >> RadioMobile = Free >> >> Wispmon = Yikes! >> >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I >> didn't feel that price. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a >> > long > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry >> needs. >> >> www.wispmon.com >> >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using >> > the > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> 607-643-4055 Voice >> 607-435-3988 Mobile >> 208-692-1898 Fax >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >>> Another >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not >>> > feeling > >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >>> see >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >>> rate? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >>> >>> Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >>> RF. >>> It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > >> Customer >> >>> is >>> > building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > >>> must >>> > work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > -RickG > > > >> --- >> - >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMapping Programs...
Sorry, I cc'd Cameron on that last post and thought you'd see his email address. Guess it didn't show up! cc...@dot11net.com Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMapping Programs... Cameron who? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMapping Programs... Yes and no. We have a few sites added and are evaluating it. It really is impressive and again the reason I brought it up was because the profiling tool is a valuable asset. It's fast and so far seems to be as or more accurate than RadioMobile. There is a lot Wispmon does that we're not interested in, but is more tailored to the majority of the wireless operators out there. I'll venture to guess we deploy a fraction of the number of radios most here manage. Our business model is a bit different and doesn't require hundreds or thousands of radios like Travis, Matt and the like deploy! Shoot Cameron an email for more details. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Brad, Are you actively using wispmon? Feedback? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:53 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have even found myself looking for more on occasion! We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first person shooter game is impressive. LOL! My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keep
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMapping Programs...
Cameron who? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution forMapping Programs... Yes and no. We have a few sites added and are evaluating it. It really is impressive and again the reason I brought it up was because the profiling tool is a valuable asset. It's fast and so far seems to be as or more accurate than RadioMobile. There is a lot Wispmon does that we're not interested in, but is more tailored to the majority of the wireless operators out there. I'll venture to guess we deploy a fraction of the number of radios most here manage. Our business model is a bit different and doesn't require hundreds or thousands of radios like Travis, Matt and the like deploy! Shoot Cameron an email for more details. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Brad, Are you actively using wispmon? Feedback? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:53 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have even found myself looking for more on occasion! We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first person shooter game is impressive. LOL! My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person th
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I put them up on my FaceBook. They say you can share your albums with people not on FaceBook, but in the testing I did... apparently it just takes them to a signup page first. They're there if you're on FaceBook. If you're looking for me, I'm not sure how many Mike Hammetts there are, but I'm sure there's only 1 WISPA and only 1 Mike Hammett in WISPA, so search for WISPA. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, > but no 411s. > > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided > tape? Does it hold in the cold? > > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. > > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. > > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? > > Mike > > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all >>the >>PoE business. >> >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. >> >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, >>but >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's >>back >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >>another. >> >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I >>didn't >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would >>lock >>up and I couldn't determine the source. >> >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This >>exact >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. >> >> >>- >>Mike Hammett >>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >>-- >>From: "Mike" >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >>To: "WISPA General List" >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >> >>box, >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >> >>their >> >>own >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >> >>a >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >> >>That's >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >> >>a >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >> >>doing >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >> >> >>Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >>Behalf Of Mike >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >> >>To: WISPA General List >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >> >>another one listening. >> >> >> >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We are
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Thanks, Mike. I'll give that one a spin. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > >> Me = Cheap >> >> RadioMobile = Free >> >> Wispmon = Yikes! >> >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I >> didn't feel that price. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a >> > long > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry >> needs. >> >> www.wispmon.com >> >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using >> > the > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> 607-643-4055 Voice >> 607-435-3988 Mobile >> 208-692-1898 Fax >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >>> Another >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not >>> > feeling > >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >>> see >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >>> rate? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >>> >>> Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >>> RF. >>> It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > >> Customer >> >>> is >>> > building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > >>> must >>> > work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > -RickG > > > >> --- >> - >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> --- >> - >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: htt
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I can credit 75% of what I know in this space to the lists, I'd say 12.5% to conferences, and 12.5% to vendors, web sites, etc. Therefore, if you (the list) think I'm dumb, it's your fault! :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:24 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Is your logic to save tower space? Do you still run multiple > cat5? What sort of box/where do you get them? > > I love the innovation I've gleaned from this list. Makes me feel > small sometimes. > > Mike > > > At 10:45 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use >>shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I >>forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the >>port I'm using. >> >>I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't >>expect any significant issues. >> >>currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. >> >>two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on >>the >>same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form >>and >>all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown >>since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat >>on >>it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same >>frequencies in the same direction. >> >>ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at >>night, >>and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, >>while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm going >>to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. >> >> >> >>-- >>From: "Mike" >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >>To: "WISPA General List" >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >> >>box, >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >> >>their >> >>own >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >> >>a >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >> >>That's >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >> >>a >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >> >>doing >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >> >> >>Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >>Behalf Of Mike >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >> >>To: WISPA General List >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >> >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >> >>another one listening. >> >> >> >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to >> >> >push >> >> >3 >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >> >> >customer >> >>base. >> >> > >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into >> >> >2 >> >> >180 >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you >> >> >just >> >> >do >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> >> >where >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >> >> >more >> >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >> >>sector. >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I >> >> >only >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> >> >remote >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed a
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Been using this one for quick lookups, requires an account to be established though. http://www.ligowave.com/linkcalc/main.html Regards Michael Baird > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > >> Me = Cheap >> >> RadioMobile = Free >> >> Wispmon = Yikes! >> >> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I >> didn't feel that price. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path >> profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a >> > long > >> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry >> needs. >> >> www.wispmon.com >> >> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using >> > the > >> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brian Webster >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link >> >> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. >> >> >> Thank You, >> Brian Webster >> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. >> Cooperstown, NY 13326 >> www.wirelessmapping.com >> 607-643-4055 Voice >> 607-435-3988 Mobile >> 208-692-1898 Fax >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> >>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >>> Another >>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not >>> > feeling > >>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >>> see >>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >>> rate? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >>> >>> Rick: You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >>> RF. >>> It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then engineer a link with single radios. If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. I would be curious what you come up with. Mike At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > >> Customer >> >>> is >>> > building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > >>> must >>> > work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > -RickG > > > >> --- >> - >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> --- >> - >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Something like this: http://www.microcom.us/apcs8.html I've never had a problem with them from any standpoint (cold, heat, grounding, etc.). I've been using these things for years. I'm going to guess 3 or 4, but I'm not sure. I still have a cable running up the tower for every RB I have, so I can power cycle units from the ground. I can't draw, so all I can do is describe... unless I have pictures somewhere I can't remember now. I'll have to look after I try to describe again. I took a roughly 15"x20" sheet of metal and cut it into four equal sized pieces. I bent them roughly in half, but I believe I measured the distance across the back of my enclosure and divided by four. Not sure. I then mounted them so that the base of the L was against the back of the enclosure with the long part perpendicular to the back of the enclosure (and vertical). I then attached the RouterBoards to the long part of the L. I got this box off eBay many years ago. Several of the traditional wireless vendors sell NEMA boxes. Your local electrical supply house has them as well. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll > have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, > but no 411s. > > What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided > tape? Does it hold in the cold? > > I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put > radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on > the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. > > I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular > to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. > > OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? > > Mike > > At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >>in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all >>the >>PoE business. >> >>Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. >> >>I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, >>but >>I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >>to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's >>back >>wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >>bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >>another. >> >>Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >>(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I >>didn't >>have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >>because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would >>lock >>up and I couldn't determine the source. >> >>The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >>When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This >>exact >>setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >>yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. >> >> >>- >>Mike Hammett >>Intelligent Computing Solutions >>http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >>-- >>From: "Mike" >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >>To: "WISPA General List" >>Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >> > >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >> > >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >> > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >> > >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >> > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >> >>box, >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >> >>their >> >>own >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >> >>a >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >> >>That's >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >> >>a >> >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you g
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I'll stick with the tried and true method for absolute sure signal path calculations, the Ouija board. I gave up the divining rod idea, it was off about 8% of the time. Couldn't handle the aggravation. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Same here. I normally use Delorme but in this case, the cost is justified. Besides, I'm passing the cost on to the customer :) On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Robert West wrote: > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. > I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > > Me = Cheap > > > > RadioMobile = Free > > > > Wispmon = Yikes! > > > > It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I > > didn't feel that price. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Brad Belton > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > > needs. > > > > www.wispmon.com > > > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Brian Webster > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > 607-643-4055 Voice > > 607-435-3988 Mobile > > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > > > > > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > > > Another > > > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not > feeling > > > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees > I > > > see > > > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > > > rate? > > > -RickG > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two > about > > > RF. > > > > > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take > over. > > > > > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > > Customer > > > is > > > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > > > must > > > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > - > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--
[WISPA] "Take Rate” Calculations for US Broa dband -- 72.9% of Homes Passed Subscribe - Ho w does your network compare?
To All; The final version of the Broadband Take Rate Brief ( http://www.wirelessmapping.com/Take%20Rate%20Brief.pdf) was released this week. The report describes broadband adoption rates on a state by state basis calculated against only the households that have access to broadband, not averaged over all homes in the state. The National Average is 72.9%.Take a look to see how your state stacks up. I'd like to conduct an informal survey. On or off list response are fine. 1 - Do you have coverage areas where you are the only broadband carrier? 2 - If so, do you have a take rate in those areas that match the state statistics in the report? 3 - Do you know how many households are passed by your network? 4 - Do you accurately know if you are maximizing the take rate (and investment) on your existing AP sites before you expand to build others? 5 - What are your most successful advertising method(s)? 6 - How Many other broadband competitors are in your service area? Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Same here. I normally use Delorme but in this case, the cost is justified. Besides, I'm passing the cost on to the customer :) On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Robert West wrote: > Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. > I > can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I > gotta eat. > > Someday, though. Someday.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close > range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar > tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you > reliable results. -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West > wrote: > > > Me = Cheap > > > > RadioMobile = Free > > > > Wispmon = Yikes! > > > > It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I > > didn't feel that price. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Brad Belton > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > > needs. > > > > www.wispmon.com > > > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Brian Webster > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > 607-643-4055 Voice > > 607-435-3988 Mobile > > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > > > > > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > > > Another > > > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not > feeling > > > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees > I > > > see > > > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > > > rate? > > > -RickG > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two > about > > > RF. > > > > > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take > over. > > > > > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > > Customer > > > is > > > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > > > must > > > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > - > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > - > > > > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
LOL, and less chance for a lightning hit! On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Robert West wrote: > Think of it as a cost saving. > > One less antenna to buy. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > But, the noise is there. Just put one of the cards in station mode and run > a > survey. It really hit me one time when I put up a new link and the signal > was very low (-88). I went back up the tower on the AP side and found that > th epigtail had fallen off! We were connecting to a radio card inside an > enclosure with NO antenna over a mile away! -RickG > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, MDK wrote: > > > The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use > > shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I > > forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the > > port I'm using. > > > > I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't > > expect any significant issues. > > > > currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. > > > > two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on > the > > same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form > > and > > all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown > > since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat > on > > it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same > > frequencies in the same direction. > > > > ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at > night, > > and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, > > while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm > going > > to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. > > > > > > > > -- > > From: "Mike" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the > box, > > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in > their > > >>own > > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to > a > > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > > That's > > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone > a > > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a > doing > > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > > >> > > >>Bob- > > >> > > >> > > >>-Original Message- > > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > >>Behalf Of Mike > > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > > >>To: WISPA General List > > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > >> > > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > > >>another one listening. > > >> > > >> > > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > > push > > >> >3 > > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your > customer > > >>base. > > >> > > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into > 2 > > >> >180 > > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > > just > > >> >do > > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > > >> >where > > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for > more > > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > > >>sector. > > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Yeah, I'd have to get quite a few more customers to pay for such a thing. I can certainly see the value in it but value versus food.. Uh I gotta eat. Someday, though. Someday.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West wrote: > Me = Cheap > > RadioMobile = Free > > Wispmon = Yikes! > > It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I > didn't feel that price. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > > > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > > Another > > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > > see > > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > > rate? > > -RickG > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > > RF. > > > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > Customer > > is > > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > > must > > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join tod
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Multiple 411 RBs won't interfere... On 12/2/09, Mike wrote: > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > Mike > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their >> own >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >>Bob- >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>Behalf Of Mike >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>To: WISPA General List >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>another one listening. >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push >> > 3 >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >>base. >> > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 >> > 180 >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just >> > do >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> > where >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>sector. >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> > remote >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >> > times, >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >> > that's >> >not happening very often right now. >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Robert West >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? >>Just >> >curious. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >> >To: WISPA General List >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of >> >horsepower on the AP's CPU? >> > >> >Greg >> >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: >> > >> > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, >> > > or >> > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP >> > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen >> > > a >> > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. >> > > >> > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple >> >boards >> > > with single radios? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -Original Message- >> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> > > On >> > > Behalf O
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Think of it as a cost saving. One less antenna to buy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure But, the noise is there. Just put one of the cards in station mode and run a survey. It really hit me one time when I put up a new link and the signal was very low (-88). I went back up the tower on the AP side and found that th epigtail had fallen off! We were connecting to a radio card inside an enclosure with NO antenna over a mile away! -RickG On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, MDK wrote: > The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use > shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I > forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the > port I'm using. > > I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't > expect any significant issues. > > currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. > > two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on the > same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form > and > all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown > since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat on > it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same > frequencies in the same direction. > > ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at night, > and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, > while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm going > to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. > > > > -- > From: "Mike" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I > only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >u
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I have plastic NEMA boxes so I run a ground wire from one of the mounting holes to my box ground. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Keep in mind that using plastic standoffs do not properly ground the boards/radios. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of "Learn RouterOS" -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, but no 411s. What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided tape? Does it hold in the cold? I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? Mike At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the >PoE business. > >Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but >I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back >wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >another. > >Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't >have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock >up and I couldn't determine the source. > >The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact >setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I use Velcro, the heavy duty stuff, 2" wide to stick the things in the boxes. I use it for everything I need to put in the boxes and have not move. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, but no 411s. What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided tape? Does it hold in the cold? I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? Mike At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the >PoE business. > >Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but >I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back >wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >another. > >Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't >have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock >up and I couldn't determine the source. > >The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact >setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never w
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you reliable results. -RickG On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West wrote: > Me = Cheap > > RadioMobile = Free > > Wispmon = Yikes! > > It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I > didn't feel that price. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > > > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > > Another > > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > > see > > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > > rate? > > -RickG > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > > RF. > > > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > Customer > > is > > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > > must > > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > >
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Completely off topic - but during the holiday season, we replace the regular white lighting in the dispatch center with red rope lighting - a bit easier on the eyes... For our larger mapping projects (back on topic), I'll either use the two LCDs on the wall or a projector... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Robert West wrote: > Very nice! Back in my Qwest days, the NOC used projectors to display > network status on the upper part of the curved walls. It was pretty dark > in > there obviously so it was very quiet as well. Was a nice place to chill > out > and hide. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of AJ > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:04 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping > Programs... > > I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various > infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a > Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim > picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the > warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. > Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without having > to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... > > Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring > applications up... > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > > > Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open > > with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or > > more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... > > > > I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have > > even found myself looking for more on occasion! > > > > We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent > > resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, > playing any first > > person shooter game is impressive. LOL! > > > > My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a > > second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much > > of anything other than network status information or general web > browsing. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going > > up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose > > smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. > > > > I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, > > but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice > > display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of > > different parts, server > > > > status, network utilizations, etc.). > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > > > -- > > From: "Brad Belton" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM > > To: "'WISPA General List'" > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my > > > twin 30" > > > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of > playground. > > > > > > > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > > > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > > On Behalf Of Robert West > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > > > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching > > > just because you can't read 8pt type! > > > > > > :) > > > > > > (Joke) > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > > On Behalf Of rwf > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > > > (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > > > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > > > that > > > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > > On Behalf Of Brad Belton > > > Sent: Tuesday,
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Yes and no. We have a few sites added and are evaluating it. It really is impressive and again the reason I brought it up was because the profiling tool is a valuable asset. It's fast and so far seems to be as or more accurate than RadioMobile. There is a lot Wispmon does that we're not interested in, but is more tailored to the majority of the wireless operators out there. I'll venture to guess we deploy a fraction of the number of radios most here manage. Our business model is a bit different and doesn't require hundreds or thousands of radios like Travis, Matt and the like deploy! Shoot Cameron an email for more details. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Brad, Are you actively using wispmon? Feedback? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:53 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have even found myself looking for more on occasion! We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first person shooter game is impressive. LOL! My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Very nice! Back in my Qwest days, the NOC used projectors to display network status on the upper part of the curved walls. It was pretty dark in there obviously so it was very quiet as well. Was a nice place to chill out and hide. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without having to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring applications up... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open > with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or > more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... > > I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have > even found myself looking for more on occasion! > > We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent > resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first > person shooter game is impressive. LOL! > > My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a > second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much > of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going > up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose > smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. > > I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, > but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice > display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of > different parts, server > > status, network utilizations, etc.). > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Brad Belton" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my > > twin 30" > > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Robert West > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching > > just because you can't read 8pt type! > > > > :) > > > > (Joke) > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of rwf > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > > (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > > that > > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Brad Belton > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great > > path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the > > product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel > > for what our industry needs. > > > > www.wispmon.com > > > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself > > using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > -Original Mes
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
But, the noise is there. Just put one of the cards in station mode and run a survey. It really hit me one time when I put up a new link and the signal was very low (-88). I went back up the tower on the AP side and found that th epigtail had fallen off! We were connecting to a radio card inside an enclosure with NO antenna over a mile away! -RickG On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, MDK wrote: > The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use > shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I > forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the > port I'm using. > > I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't > expect any significant issues. > > currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. > > two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on the > same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form > and > all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown > since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat on > it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same > frequencies in the same direction. > > ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at night, > and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, > while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm going > to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. > > > > -- > From: "Mike" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. > That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to > push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you > just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I > only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensl
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Is your logic to save tower space? Do you still run multiple cat5? What sort of box/where do you get them? I love the innovation I've gleaned from this list. Makes me feel small sometimes. Mike At 10:45 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use >shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I >forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the >port I'm using. > >I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't >expect any significant issues. > >currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. > >two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on the >same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form and >all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown >since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat on >it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same >frequencies in the same direction. > >ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at night, >and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, >while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm going >to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >> > > >> >Bob- > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >-Original Message- > >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >> >To: 'WISPA General List' > >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still a
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Keep in mind that using plastic standoffs do not properly ground the boards/radios. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of "Learn RouterOS" -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, but no 411s. What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided tape? Does it hold in the cold? I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? Mike At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the >PoE business. > >Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but >I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back >wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >another. > >Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't >have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock >up and I couldn't determine the source. > >The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact >setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I am very new to MT, but have been using some and learning. I'll have to see what the 411 is. I have 433s, a 450 and one of the 100s, but no 411s. What is self adhesive plastic? Do you mean that foam double sided tape? Does it hold in the cold? I may have to rethink what I thought I knew. I have always put radios in the same band in separate boxes. It sure would cut down on the number of cat5 cables I have to have running up the tower. I'm still trying to visualize your routerboards mounted perpendicular to the enclosure back wall. Please elaborate. OK, so if I want a good nema box to try some of this, where should I look? Mike At 10:33 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 >in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the >PoE business. > >Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. > >I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but >I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base >to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back >wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the >bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see >another. > >Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 >(modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't >have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method >because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock >up and I couldn't determine the source. > >The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. >When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact >setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems >yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. > > >- >Mike Hammett >Intelligent Computing Solutions >http://www.ics-il.com > > > >-- >From: "Mike" >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM >To: "WISPA General List" >Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their > >>own > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a > >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >> > >>Bob- > >> > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >>Behalf Of Mike > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM > >>To: WISPA General List > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same > >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes > >>another one listening. > >> > >> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push > >> >3 > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer > >>base. > >> > > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 > >> >180 > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just > >> >do > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to > >> >where > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per > >>sector. > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my > >> >remote > >> >AP's to one 43
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Ha! Looks good. Those appear to be the same Vizio LCD TVs my brother Bill and I have on our office walls. Mine typically stays on the FoxHD Business Channel, but I did run a VGA cable to it in the event I want to plug a laptop in etc. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without having to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring applications up... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open > with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or > more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... > > I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have > even found myself looking for more on occasion! > > We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent > resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first > person shooter game is impressive. LOL! > > My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a > second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much > of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going > up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose > smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. > > I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, > but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice > display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of > different parts, server > > status, network utilizations, etc.). > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Brad Belton" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my > > twin 30" > > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Robert West > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching > > just because you can't read 8pt type! > > > > :) > > > > (Joke) > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of rwf > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > > (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > > that > > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Brad Belton > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great > > path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the > > product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel > > for what our industry needs. > > > > www.wispmon.com > > > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself > > using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > -
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
I'll tell you whatthis is really getting off topic, but I've been to Jerry's World (the new Texas Stadium) a couple times now and that 60 YARD LONG HD Jumbo-Tron is absolutely amazing! The image quality is truly is no different than looking at the HD TV you have at home or office. I have pictures of that screen that look like I took the picture standing on the stage next to the performer or standing on the field next to the player. There is no pixelation. Pretty crazy... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:06 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link ONLY 2 30"? Okay, dude. I'm feeling sorry for you a little but surly you can pony up some of that moldy money and get a couple of Jumbo-Trons and the supporting semi-trailer. Get with the times. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so. Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without having to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)... Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring applications up... On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open > with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or > more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... > > I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have > even found myself looking for more on occasion! > > We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent > resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first > person shooter game is impressive. LOL! > > My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a > second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much > of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going > up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose > smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. > > I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, > but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice > display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of > different parts, server > > status, network utilizations, etc.). > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Brad Belton" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my > > twin 30" > > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of Robert West > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching > > just because you can't read 8pt type! > > > > :) > > > > (Joke) > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > On Behalf Of rwf > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > > (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > > that > > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > > > > > -Original Message-
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I was thinking of calling my pal, Woz, and see if he wants to let loose of that Diamond Vision screen he has gathering dust in his garage. He hasn't needed it since 1983.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > >> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >> Another >> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling >> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >> see >> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >> rate? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> > >> > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking >> > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >> RF. >> > >> > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for >> > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 >> > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then >> > engineer a link with single radios. >> > >> > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered >> > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical >> > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new >> > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones >> > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a >> > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. >> > >> > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we >> > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. >> > >> > I would be curio
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I got the tip from Eje over at Wisp Router. I haven't grounded the separator, actually never thought about it. I take a slice of aluminum foil, put the contact vinyl on both sides and slide it between the cards. I never had any issues at all but I never ran without it like that either. When I mentioned individual 411 boards, I was meaning that the idea is to put one 411 board in one box and hang the box with the sector that it serves. That configuration totally removes the desense concern. I have one box where I have 2 routerboards but it's one 433ah running 2.4 and a 411 board running a XR9 card. No issues with them. I also have a 600a with the daughter board in a box running 6 R52N cards for the AP, 3 at 2.4 and 3 at 5ghz, 2 more R52N cards running at 5ghz for backhaul in and out. It glows at night from all the radiation But I haven't had any issue with that one and I was gritting my teeth putting it together thinking it was going to be a mess. Sometimes stupidity prevails. I gave up most of the XR cards in favor of the new R52N cards. For one, the XR cards would take up too much space wasting one of my slots on the MT boards. For another, I had stability problems with them from time to time. Dunno why. I like UBNT but I think I'm only running 1 XR card now, the 900mhz. I run all the POE in a separate box, at least I'll keep that issue outta the equation. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own >box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >Bob- > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Mike >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >another one listening. > > >At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 > >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >base. > > > >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 > >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do > >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where > >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >sector. > >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only > >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote > >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > > > >Bob- > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >To: 'WISPA General List' > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get > >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, > >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
ONLY 2 30"? Okay, dude. I'm feeling sorry for you a little but surly you can pony up some of that moldy money and get a couple of Jumbo-Trons and the supporting semi-trailer. Get with the times. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30" monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > Another > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > see > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > rate? > -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > Rick: > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > RF. > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > Mike > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer > is > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > must > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > >--- - > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >--- - > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Want
Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Brad, Are you actively using wispmon? Feedback? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:53 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs... Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have even found myself looking for more on occasion! We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first person shooter game is impressive. LOL! My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > >> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >> Another >> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling >> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >> see >> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >> rate? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> > >> > You have been getting some good advice her
[WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...
Agreed, resolution is key for me too. I keep the right monitor open with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc... I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have even found myself looking for more on occasion! We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors. However, playing any first person shooter game is impressive. LOL! My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a second monitor. It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much of anything other than network status information or general web browsing. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > >> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >> Another >> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling >> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >> see >> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >> rate? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> > >> > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking >> > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >> RF. >> > >> > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for >> > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 >> > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then >> > engineer a link with single radios. >> > >> > If you use some of
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
The most I have done so far, is to put 7 cards in one box. I don't use shielding between them or anything, and have no known issues, except if I forget and use the diversity mode in the card, instead of locking to the port I'm using. I'm about to upgrade one site to 10 cards in one steel box, but I don't expect any significant issues. currently, the 7 break down as 2 at 2.4 and the rest 5Ghz. two cards overlap, with one being a 20 mhz and one a ten mhz channel on the same center frequency, with not a lot of ill effects. I know, bad form and all, but there's only ONE useable frequency in a certain area of downtown since I staked it out many years ago (nobody else has been able to squat on it and work, apparently), and so I have a sector and a p2p on the same frequencies in the same direction. ONe feeds a busy office in the day, the other is busy residential at night, and I've found no signfiicant change in the main sector's loss overall, while the busy office went from poor behavior to reasonable. I'm going to replace this with a 3.65 p2p shortly. -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > Mike > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their >>own >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >>Bob- >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>Behalf Of Mike >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>To: WISPA General List >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>another one listening. >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push >> >3 >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >>base. >> > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 >> >180 >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just >> >do >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> >where >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>sector. >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> >remote >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >> >get >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >> >times, >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >> >that's >> >not happening very often right now. >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Robert West >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going up exponentially in price. I know I've seen a DLP projector whose smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k. I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution, but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of different parts, server status, network utilizations, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Brad Belton" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin > 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer > (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a > long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using > the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > >> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. >> Another >> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling >> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I >> see >> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair >> rate? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> > >> > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking >> > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about >> RF. >> > >> > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for >> > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 >> > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then >> > engineer a link with single radios. >> > >> > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered >> > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical >> > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new >> > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones >> > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a >> > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. >> > >> > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we >> > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. >> > >> > I would be curious what you come up with. >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: >> > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. >> > >Customer >> is >> > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose >> must >> > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? >> > >-RickG >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >>--
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I have a somewhat large NEMA box (1'x2.5'x3') with 4x RB411AHs with an XR5 in each. At the bottom of the tower, I have a box with an RB493 and all the PoE business. Each RB411 is mounted with self adhesive plastic to some sheet metal. I don't have any experience with self-interference inside an enclosure, but I bought some sheet metal and cut\bent it into L shapes, securing the base to the enclosure with the RouterBoards perpendicular to the enclosure's back wall. I did that just to be safe. Pigtails run from the cards to the bottom of the enclosure. No RouterBoard or radio can line of sight see another. Previously in this same enclosure I had a PC motherboard with an RB14 (modified by MT to support higher power cards) with 4x SR5s on it. I didn't have any apparent RF problems then, but I switched to this other method because I had a phantom lockup problem... every 30 - 45 days it would lock up and I couldn't determine the source. The 411 isn't the card, but the computer you're plugging the cards into. When I did this, the XR5s were the best quality cards available. This exact setup has been in place since this summer and I haven't had any problems yet. The previous system was in place ever since the SR5 came out. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Mike" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:13 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to > create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job > of shielding if you attach the pigtail. > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an > issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? > > Mike > > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their >>own >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >>couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >> >>Bob- >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>Behalf Of Mike >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>To: WISPA General List >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>another one listening. >> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push >> >3 >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >>base. >> > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 >> >180 >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >> >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just >> >do >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >> >where >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >> >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>sector. >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >> >remote >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >> >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >> > >> >Bob- >> > >> > >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >> >To: 'WISPA General List' >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> > >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >> >get >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >> >times, >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
I used to run monitors this big but my neck began to hurt way too much.. Like watching tennis all day. ryan On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Brad Belton wrote: > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30" > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. > > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! > > > Brad > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just > because you can't read 8pt type! > > :) > > (Joke) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of rwf > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming > approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. > And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" > that > keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brad Belton > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path > profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long > time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry > needs. > > www.wispmon.com > > I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the > path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. > > Best, > > > Brad > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Brian Webster > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link > > $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > www.wirelessmapping.com > 607-643-4055 Voice > 607-435-3988 Mobile > 208-692-1898 Fax > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > > > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > > Another > > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > > see > > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > > rate? > > -RickG > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > > RF. > > > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. > Customer > > is > > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > > must > > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > > >--- > - > > > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my twin 30" monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of playground. Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600. Dang it! Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > Another > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > see > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > rate? > -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > Rick: > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > RF. > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > Mike > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer > is > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > must > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > >--- - > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >--- - > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WIS
[WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, >the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own >box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a >central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's >one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a >couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing >nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. > >Bob- > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Mike >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >another one listening. > > >At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: > >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 > >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer >base. > > > >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 > >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more > >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do > >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where > >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more > >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >sector. > >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only > >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote > >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The > >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as > >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course > >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already > >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > > > >Bob- > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of Jason Hensley > >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM > >To: 'WISPA General List' > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get > >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, > >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's > >not happening very often right now. > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of Robert West > >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM > >To: 'WISPA General List' > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? >Just > >curious. > > > >Bob- > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com > >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM > >To: WISPA General List > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of > >horsepower on the AP's CPU? > > > >Greg > >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > > > > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > > > > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple > >boards > > > with single radios? > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the >strength > >of > > > you
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor? Until you get the technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching just because you can't read 8pt type! :) (Joke) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > Another > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > see > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > rate? > -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > Rick: > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > RF. > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > Mike > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer > is > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > must > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > >--- - > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >--- - > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. > >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's >not happening very often right now. > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Robert West >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just >curious. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of >horsepower on the AP's CPU? > >Greg >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple >boards > > with single radios? > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > Mark, > > > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength >of > > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good >luck > > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > > sectors, I would go that way though. > > > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen >to > > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high >density > > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > > > Rick Harnish > > > >> -Or
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Actually no. I got a tip from Ej to put a rectangle of foil in a sleeve, he said like a card protector but I use aluminum foil with contact paper (not really paper, vinyl) and place it between each card. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. > >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's >not happening very often right now. > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Robert West >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just >curious. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of >horsepower on the AP's CPU? > >Greg >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple >boards > > with single radios? > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > Mark, > > > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength >of > > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good >luck > > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > > sectors, I would go that way though. > > > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen >to > > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high >density > > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > > > Rick Harnish > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this A
Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers.... Needed for WISP related product...
But I also have a few scripts that will make all of the changes I need, sans the SSID, Frequency, IP address. There is still a little bit of a learning curve, but for the basic setups you don't have to teach them more than the variables. -Kevin On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Robert West wrote: > But that's the same complaints a lot of people have when comparing the > legacy UBNT and MT. UBNT is basically plug and play while MT is virtually > limitless on your configuration options. I can train even my wife to > install a backhaul and could do it within an hour but the complexity of > Mikrotik adds significantly to the learning curve. If you want quick and > easy, plug and play, Ubiquiti. Complexity, MT. > > But I'm not meaning to discourage you whatsoever. It's the little guy in > the corner who comes up with real innovation. The big guys tend to swoop > down and claim it once it looks good. :) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of MDK > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... > > Actually, it's far better than cost-effective. > > It's flexible, in both hardware and capabilities. Firewall, routing, > routing daemons, and other things. > > Frankly, I find the physical aspects of the Airmax stuff frustratingly > limited. > > I've grown fond of my immense ability to do creative stuff with Star-OS and > a wide array of physical forms - especially since much of my network relies > on low power consumption. > > AirMax, deployed as an AP and clients... seems ok. But that's only a > small part of a good network. > > > > > -- > From: "Jayson Baker" > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:51 PM > To: "WISPA General List" > Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... > >> Availability is supposedly resolved. We'll see. >> >> Routing... there is a full SDK. You can do anything you want on those >> things. The new ones have 400+MHz proc's, plenty to do some >> routing/firewalling. >> >> I just can't see a home grown solution like you're proposing being >> cost-effective. We spent about 2 months on a project just like this, and >> started to have some pretty awesome performance and results. >> >> Then UBNT stuff came out. >> >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:39 PM, MDK wrote: >> >>> Given UBNT's record of unavailability of product, and the inability to >>> route via the interface, I vastly prefer this to UBNT's products. >>> >>> Now, mind you, I'm not really putting them down, but this is an excellent >>> infrastructure tool... Routing and other capabilities that vastly >>> exceed >>> some better known... >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> From: "Jayson Baker" >>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:25 PM >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related >>> product... >>> >>> > Is there really much need for this, given the new AirMax product line? >>> > I'm just saying... >>> > >>> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:19 PM, MDK wrote: >>> > >>> >> What would you call a totally proprietary, TDMA based protocol, >>> >> without >>> >> ACK >>> >> or CSMA? >>> >> >>> >> Doesn't look a whole lot like 802.11x, but if you wish to say it is, >>> >> then, >>> >> for you it is :) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> From: "Travis Johnson" >>> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:36 PM >>> >> To: "WISPA General List" >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related >>> >> product... >>> >> >>> >> > If you are using Atheros based hardware, it's still 802.11... >>> >> > regardless >>> >> > of what software you put on top of it. >>> >> > >>> >> > Travis >>> >> > Microserv >>> >> > >>> >> > MDK wrote: >>> >> >> If you're a WISP and have interest in using commodity - off the >>> >> >> shelf - >>> >> >> Atheros based hardware to achieve higher than ethernet speeds over >>> >> >> wireless... This is not a tweak of 802.11, it is a completely >>> >> >> different >>> >> >> mode... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> There is currently an opportunity to do so, where most of the work >>> has >>> >> >> been >>> >> >> done by various others in the FreeBSd community, but it is not >>> >> integrated >>> >> >> or >>> >> >> packaged as a useful WISP product, and that's what needs to be >>> >> >> done. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> This does not need to result in an open source release, due to the >>> >> >> relaxed >>> >> >> BSD license. Or, it can. But I'm looking for some people who >>> >> >> have >>> >> >> experience with freebsd, and have an interest in integrating what >>> >> >> could >>> >> >> be >>> >> >> an awesome performing product using inexpensive commodity hardware. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> email me at pda at neofast dot n
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. > >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more >growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only >dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course >until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >suggested doing and I like the economics of it. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Jason Hensley >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's >not happening very often right now. > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Robert West >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just >curious. > >Bob- > > > >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >To: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of >horsepower on the AP's CPU? > >Greg >On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > > > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple >boards > > with single radios? > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > Mark, > > > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength >of > > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good >luck > > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > > sectors, I would go that way though. > > > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen >to > > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high >density > > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > > > Rick Harnish > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 > >> subs. > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM > >> To: 'WISPA General List' > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > >> > >> What frequency band and polarization? > >> > >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni > >> to > >> the secto
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics of it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's not happening very often right now. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just curious. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Well that depends on who you talk to. It's like overselling bandwidth, everyone has their own limit. I've seen AP's with almost 100 on them but there were a lot of low use customers. Check your graphs on the MT and see what the long term history is for that AP. Going to the AH boards is a good move no matter how you look at it though. Planning ahead is a very good thing indeed! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Sectors Well I just upgraded the RB from a 433 to a 433AH because I was seeing processor hitting 60-80% during peak times. I am actually just planning ahead because I keep hearing 30 as a magic number per AP. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, an
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's not happening very often right now. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just curious. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark >> - >>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
I think I'm hitting 802 limit. CPU on the board isn't getting tasked that hard. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark >> - >>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ >> - >>> --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>> -
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, Jason? Just curious. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark >> - >>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ >> - >>> --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sour
[WISPA] Sectors
Well I just upgraded the RB from a 433 to a 433AH because I was seeing processor hitting 60-80% during peak times. I am actually just planning ahead because I keep hearing 30 as a magic number per AP. Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark >> - >>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ >> - >>> --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 11
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: > On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or > would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP > overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a > performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. > > Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards > with single radios? > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > Mark, > > If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of > your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana > farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that > high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck > with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and > enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 > sectors, I would go that way though. > > Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to > a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we > try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density > of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well > established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. > Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. > > Rick Harnish > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 >> subs. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What frequency band and polarization? >> >> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni >> to >> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to >> offload >> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> 9db >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >> >> What size omni are you using? >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>> >>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does >>> antenna design said so :) >>> >>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of >> the >>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>> >>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really >>> want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >> they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark >> - >>> --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ >> - >>> --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>> --- Albert Einstein >>> >>> >>> >> --- >>> - >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> --- >>> - >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers.... Needed for WISP related product...
But that's the same complaints a lot of people have when comparing the legacy UBNT and MT. UBNT is basically plug and play while MT is virtually limitless on your configuration options. I can train even my wife to install a backhaul and could do it within an hour but the complexity of Mikrotik adds significantly to the learning curve. If you want quick and easy, plug and play, Ubiquiti. Complexity, MT. But I'm not meaning to discourage you whatsoever. It's the little guy in the corner who comes up with real innovation. The big guys tend to swoop down and claim it once it looks good. :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... Actually, it's far better than cost-effective. It's flexible, in both hardware and capabilities.Firewall, routing, routing daemons, and other things. Frankly, I find the physical aspects of the Airmax stuff frustratingly limited. I've grown fond of my immense ability to do creative stuff with Star-OS and a wide array of physical forms - especially since much of my network relies on low power consumption. AirMax, deployed as an AP and clients... seems ok.But that's only a small part of a good network. -- From: "Jayson Baker" Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:51 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... > Availability is supposedly resolved. We'll see. > > Routing... there is a full SDK. You can do anything you want on those > things. The new ones have 400+MHz proc's, plenty to do some > routing/firewalling. > > I just can't see a home grown solution like you're proposing being > cost-effective. We spent about 2 months on a project just like this, and > started to have some pretty awesome performance and results. > > Then UBNT stuff came out. > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:39 PM, MDK wrote: > >> Given UBNT's record of unavailability of product, and the inability to >> route via the interface, I vastly prefer this to UBNT's products. >> >> Now, mind you, I'm not really putting them down, but this is an excellent >> infrastructure tool...Routing and other capabilities that vastly >> exceed >> some better known... >> >> >> >> -- >> From: "Jayson Baker" >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:25 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related >> product... >> >> > Is there really much need for this, given the new AirMax product line? >> > I'm just saying... >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:19 PM, MDK wrote: >> > >> >> What would you call a totally proprietary, TDMA based protocol, >> >> without >> >> ACK >> >> or CSMA? >> >> >> >> Doesn't look a whole lot like 802.11x, but if you wish to say it is, >> >> then, >> >> for you it is :) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> From: "Travis Johnson" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:36 PM >> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related >> >> product... >> >> >> >> > If you are using Atheros based hardware, it's still 802.11... >> >> > regardless >> >> > of what software you put on top of it. >> >> > >> >> > Travis >> >> > Microserv >> >> > >> >> > MDK wrote: >> >> >> If you're a WISP and have interest in using commodity - off the >> >> >> shelf - >> >> >> Atheros based hardware to achieve higher than ethernet speeds over >> >> >> wireless... This is not a tweak of 802.11, it is a completely >> >> >> different >> >> >> mode... >> >> >> >> >> >> There is currently an opportunity to do so, where most of the work >> has >> >> >> been >> >> >> done by various others in the FreeBSd community, but it is not >> >> integrated >> >> >> or >> >> >> packaged as a useful WISP product, and that's what needs to be >> >> >> done. >> >> >> >> >> >> This does not need to result in an open source release, due to the >> >> >> relaxed >> >> >> BSD license. Or, it can. But I'm looking for some people who >> >> >> have >> >> >> experience with freebsd, and have an interest in integrating what >> >> >> could >> >> >> be >> >> >> an awesome performing product using inexpensive commodity hardware. >> >> >> >> >> >> email me at pda at neofast dot net or mark at neofast dot net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
Re: [WISPA] A Ridiculous Failure of Critical Infrastructure
And in August of 2003, a tree limb in Ohio caused the biggest blackout in US history. If the operators of 100+ year technology (the Power Grid) are incapable of routing around major outages, I suspect the same lack of thinking and planning is at fault in this issue as well. It's always the "It will never happen" scenario that happens. Infamous last words "She's unsinkable!" -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:54 AM To: Telecom Regulation & the Internet; WISPA General List; motorola-us...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] A Ridiculous Failure of Critical Infrastructure Some kind of combination of failure between Charter and Qwest has left tens of thousands of people in Nebraska without Internet and has disrupted the Internet and phone services for thousands more.Right now, the outage is going on 12 hours and there is no ETA for repair in sight. The word coming down is that the outage is on a Qwest fiber, but it looks to me like both parties should be on the hot seat for not having the ability to route around the problem.There was a four hour outage on Charter a week ago that was caused by a fiber cut in Gothenburg, Nebraska. That one killed everything west of the cut, but it was small potatoes compared to this one. Is this truly the level of performance that we can expect from our major Internet backbone providers? It took me about 10 seconds to re-route my traffic to a backup provider - you would think that a couple of multimillion dollar companies would be able to sort out a problem of this nature in a reasonable amount of time. The small CLEC that I use for my backup connection had enough capacity to route around the problem and was even able to lend me a little bit after 5pm when the traffic on their network (mostly businesses) dropped off. It isn't rocket science to figure out how to route around an outage. Almost as frustrating is that there was NO news about the outages anywhere except on the social networking sites (Facebook, Twitter). One TV station in Hastings, NE put up a short story on their website, but I got more news from the tweets and FB posts that people where posting from their cell phones than I did from anywhere else. None of the network outage sites have any news about this. Could this be a harbinger of things to come? I am feeling pretty thankful right now that I have a choice in backbone providers and that I kept a second one. Diversity is a good thing, and this is a great example of why we need competition and multiple options for Internet. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
Maybe Cameron w/Wispmon will chime in and do a better job of explaining what the service offers and how it works better than me. My point in bringing Wispmon up was in response to paying $75 for a single path profile when Wispmon provides the same (probably better) information as often as you like. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rwf Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link WOW! It is expensive. Nearly 3% of the revenue from each customer (assuming approx 35.00 monthly per customer) is a nice hit. And whatever their website is done in, does me in. That "initializing" that keeps coming up and the small typeface is frustrating. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path profile tool built-in. The person that is developing the product is a long time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry needs. www.wispmon.com I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 www.wirelessmapping.com 607-643-4055 Voice 607-435-3988 Mobile 208-692-1898 Fax On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG wrote: > THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide. > Another > question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling > that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I > see > in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair > rate? > -RickG > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike wrote: > > > Rick: > > > > You have been getting some good advice here. I am not a networking > > guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about > RF. > > > > It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for > > some space diversity. A simple link will probably serve you with 3 > > nines or so. If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then > > engineer a link with single radios. > > > > If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered > > here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical > > separation. Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new > > tower. The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones > > stations. You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a > > higher cost than the other. If one failed, the other would take over. > > > > My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we > > sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting. > > > > I would be curious what you come up with. > > > > Mike > > > > At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote: > > >Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear. Customer > is > > >building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose > must > > >work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions? > > >-RickG > > > > > > > > > > > >--- - > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >--- - > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > --
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Most of my AP's are Mikrotik 433ah boards with multiple radios but I just put one up with 3 separate 411 cards bridging into a 600a routerboard. Got the idea from another member here. Works fine but I don't have much load on it yet although it should handle quite a bit. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards with single radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Mark, If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 sectors, I would go that way though. Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. Rick Harnish > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > > I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 > subs. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What frequency band and polarization? > > I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni > to > the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to > offload > some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > 9db > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What size omni are you using? > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does > > antenna design said so :) > > > > You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of > the > > extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. > > > > On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: > > > I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really > > want > > > to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard > they > > > don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any > > > comments? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > --- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > - > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > >
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards with single radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Mark, If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 sectors, I would go that way though. Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. Rick Harnish > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > > I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 > subs. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What frequency band and polarization? > > I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni > to > the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to > offload > some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > 9db > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What size omni are you using? > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does > > antenna design said so :) > > > > You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of > the > > extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. > > > > On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: > > > I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really > > want > > > to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard > they > > > don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any > > > comments? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > --- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > - > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > --- > > - > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > --- > > - > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 27
Re: [WISPA] suggestions for dual wan dhcp auto fail over
You can setup rules and use different routing tables. Create a table for internal to the MT to use the specific DSL interface for the destination of your test traffic. Then, no matter what the other states are, you will test correctly. Data Technology wrote: > Yes the dsl modem is handing out a dhcp address. I figure I will have > to ping way back upstream to check the connection vs just pinging the > dhcp modem. > I was thinking that if I just change the distance value to a higher > value then I could leave the interface up and nat should use the route > with the lowest distance value. (not tested yet) > Then I could ping with a source address of the dsl interface and it > should go out the dsl line even though the distance is set higher than > the backup. (not tested yet) > > Dennis Burgess wrote: > >> There are other things to also keep in mind when dealing with DHCP, i.e. >> is your DHCP being handed out locally. sSo if you have a DSL line is >> the DSL modem handing this out? if so, then watching that connection is >> useless, you will have to do some policy based routing and checks to >> verify that it is up and bring it down if it is not up. >> >> --- >> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer >> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org >> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services >> WISPA Vendor Member >> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net >> LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training >> Author of "Learn RouterOS" >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:21 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] suggestions for dual wan dhcp auto fail over >> >> Lucky you, glad you could have 3.x everywhere! >> >> I could be wrong as it may just be my experience, but the command line >> for >> custom things is necessary as the GUI doesn't show everything. I >> started >> with GUI and moved a lot to CLI as it seems easier/faster. Hopefully >> it's >> simply a personal preference! >> >> There are places like wireless where the GUI is almost required as the >> CLI >> is difficult to navigate and may not even have some values. >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >> --- Albert Einstein >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Data Technology wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yeah, when I looked at the article you listed it clicked. I don't use >>> the command line except when I have to so I was a little off on the >>> command to change the distance setting. >>> >>> I have version 4.3 so that should not be a problem. >>> I've been using MT for several years but I have gotten past the 2.9.x. >>> I think oldest is 3.25. >>> >>> >>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>> >>> First one is definitely not going to work. Second one is what you need =) Do keep in mind you need 3.11+. If you're new to Mikrotik there is >>> little >>> >>> reason to be concerned, but some users such as myself still have >> 2.9.50 >> >> >>> or >>> >>> 51 stuff! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Data Technology >> wrote: >> >> > Josh, > That is what I was trying to do but I was trying to use "/ip route > > >> set >> >> > ether1 distance=3" instead of "/ip dhcp-client set ether1 > default-route-distance=3". > > Thanks > LaRoy > > > Josh Luthman wrote: > > > >> This might help you >> http://stfunoo.be/?p=268 >> >> I like using route distance since 3.11 DHCP can do it. >> >> It has worked very well for me. >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >> --- Albert Einstein >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Data Technology >> >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> >>> Sounds too easy :) I'll give it a try. >>> >>> Thanks >>> LaRoy >>> >>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Just change the nat to use the other public ip since your
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Mark, If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 sectors, I would go that way though. Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. Rick Harnish > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Sectors > > I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 > subs. > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of 3-dB Networks > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What frequency band and polarization? > > I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni > to > the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to > offload > some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Mark McElvy > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > 9db > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > What size omni are you using? > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors > > > > That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does > > antenna design said so :) > > > > You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of > the > > extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. > > > > On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy wrote: > > > I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really > > want > > > to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard > they > > > don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any > > > comments? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > --- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > - > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Josh Luthman > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > 1100 Wayne St > > Suite 1337 > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > > --- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > --- > > - > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > --- > > - > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: > > 12/01/09 19:32:00 > > > > --- > - > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > - > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database:
