Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Robert West]

And you would then lose your equipment, your investment and your ass while
they smiled and told you how your paperwork was in error.

 

I was given the low down by the common tribal folk.  They play both sides of
the fence.  Once you cross that reservation border, all the rules change and
you have no idea what they have changed to.  The regular folk are just like
you and I but the "elders" are the greedy money men.  

 

Bob-

 

Or

 

He who glows like pig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 2:35 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who you were) that same outcome
has not happened for other races in similar situations in mankind's past
history. Maybe there wasn't enough lawyers back in the ancient days? So, in
the modern era, it's no longer "only the strong survive" but rather, only
the best lawyer survives?

 

No matter, it would be interesting to be involved with a tribal roll out of
a high end network.  

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Fred Goldstein 
wrote:

At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
>Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?

Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open casinos.


>Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator.  :-)

When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(


 --
 Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
 ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
 +1 617 795 2701






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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[RickG]

Ya, and only allow dsl & cable users to use it :)

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Philip Dorr
wrote:

> Host a Linux (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, ect) Bittorrent seed box?
>
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> > Already do takes 1-2Mbps at peak times.
> >
> > Travis
> > Microserv
> >
> >
> > Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> >
> > Host a server for speedtest.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kurt Fankhauser
> >
> > WAVELINC
> >
> > P.O. Box 126
> >
> > Bucyrus, OH 44820
> >
> > 419-562-6405
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:05 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth
> >
> >
> >
> > Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" bandwidth
> > available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(
> >
> > Travis
> > Microserv
> >
> > Josh Luthman wrote:
> >
> > Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe help the community with content distribution.
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> >
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> >
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> >
> > 1100 Wayne St
> >
> > Suite 1337
> >
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey there
> >
> >
> >
> >As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what
> are
> > people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > 
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[RickG]

No flaming arrows now! 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Jerry Richardson  wrote:

> Wow. Can we kill this thread now before it erupts in flames?
>
> Jerry Richardson
> Sent Mobile
>
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:12 PM, "MDK"  wrote:
>
> > YOu have it all wrong.
> >
> > Suppose you live in a land where your culture is incapable of
> > dealing with
> > the rest of the world around it, but the "invaders" are bleeding
> > hearts who
> > "give" you land and let you try to "continue" your incompatible
> > culture
> > unchanged in a world where it is outdated, outmoded and incapable of
> > survival.   In which case, the powers that be grant you money to
> > live on
> > while you pretend to pursue the "preservation" of your dead and
> > unviable
> > culture.It leads to a mess, a huge mess, a world of despondency,
> > want,
> > dependency and hopelessness.
> >
> > Ya'll need to understand that the indian wars were never over
> > land.The
> > "ownership" culture of the whole rest of the world was irrelevant.
> > Instead, the wars were fought over the idea that the world was being
> > transformed around them, and some believed they should fight it,
> > rather than
> > adjust.   IT was a fight over resources - the kind of inter-tribal
> > conflict
> > that had gone on for centuries untold - except it wasn't a fight
> > against
> > another tribe, it was a fight against a culture armed with knowledge,
> > technology, communication, law, and wealth.   And neither understood
> > it.
> >
> > Had we handed the western half of the country to the "natives" and
> > just drew
> > a line around them and made it "do not cross" boundaries, the
> > failures of
> > the various cultures would still have occurred, and so would have the
> > diseases, and so on.And worse, people with less scruples than the
> > schmucks who "wrote treaties" with them, would have invaded for the
> > wealth
> > and simply wiped 'em out.
> >
> > Sadly, reservations did nobody any favors, it perpetuated the myth
> > that
> > primitive culture can survive a modern world and that you can mix
> > the two
> > with impunity, using political considerations as the measuring cup.
> >
> > We know that cultures CAN adapt to both the knowledge and science of
> > the
> > world around them, and can adapt to changes in ideas about rights and
> > ownership and written law, etc.   Modern indians want the consumer
> > trappings
> > of modern life... while living without the cultural qualities that
> > made it
> > possible to achieve them - or at least the reservation mentality
> > seeks to
> > keep it that way.
> >
> > I've ranted long enough off topic...   Let's just leave at this :
> > Reservation mentality and attempts to "preserve" cultures unchanged
> > are
> > exercises in a level of imbecility so monumental, with results so
> > horrible,
> > it is simply a crime against humanity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ++
> > Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> > 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> > ++
> >
> > --
> > From: "Fred Goldstein" 
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:52 PM
> > To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian
> > Reservation
> >
> >> At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
> >>> Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?
> >>
> >> Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
> >> settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
> >> of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
> >> take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
> >> them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
> >> forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
> >> and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
> >> century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open
> >> casinos.
> >>
> >>> Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an
> >>> Integrator.  :-)
> >>
> >> When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
> >> ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
> >> +1 617 795 2701
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[RickG]

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on who you were) that same outcome
has not happened for other races in similar situations in mankind's past
history. Maybe there wasn't enough lawyers back in the ancient days? So, in
the modern era, it's no longer "only the strong survive" but rather, only
the best lawyer survives?

No matter, it would be interesting to be involved with a tribal roll out of
a high end network.

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote:

> At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
> >Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?
>
> Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
> settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
> of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
> take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
> them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
> forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
> and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
> century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open casinos.
>
> >Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator.  :-)
>
> When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(
>
>
>  --
>   Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[RickG]

Dont feed the troll :)

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  Gosh, I just do not understand how some native American peoples could feel
> so "territorial". What's up with that???
>
>
> Forbes Mercy wrote:
>
> Travis,
>
> I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills and
> unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is "we want to do
> Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, same thing.  I
> should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us.
>
> Forbes
>
> On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans all
> "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, garages,
> barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 other
> providers), but technically they could enforce it.
>
> The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and VoIP
> solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ years and
> have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two nice water
> towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in the middle of
> their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it because "they" are
> going to do it.
>
> This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete in
> the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that would help
> all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal headquarters and
> are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> MDK wrote:
>
> I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of
> money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than
> about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it.   As far
> as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they
> won't change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to
> get broadband to the most densely populated part of it.   I may still end up
> putting in wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live
> out there.
>
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
>  *From:* Rick Harnish 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
> *To:* memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List'  ;
> motor...@afmug.com
> *Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
> *Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation
>
>  I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which
> is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections
> International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.
> Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country
> that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working
> with them.  Part of Alex’s articles will focus on how private ISPs are
> successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to
> hear the downside of anyone’s experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to
> develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the
> development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants
> awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in
> the implementation of the projects.
>
>
>
> If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you
> in the next week.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> *Rick Harnish*
>
> Executive Director
>
> WISPA
>
> 260-307-4000 cell
>
> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office
>
> Skype: rick.harnish.
>
> rharn...@wispa.org
>
>
>
>  --
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[Robert West]

Thanks, man.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jp
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question...

I put 3 phase into my datacenter because I have a three phase generator and
I knew eventually my load would be too big for a 1-phase generator and
potentially too big for a 1-phase service.

I know of no reason why it would handle lightning any differently. It has a
neutral/ground just like single phase. 

If you lose one phase and have nothing to detect that, bad things can
happen. Same with single phase; we had a storm knock out the neutral wire at
one of sites a few weeks ago. Water tower pumps on the same line made our
voltage go between 70 and 250v at the 120v outlet. At our datacenter, the
generator autotransfer swtich will switch to generator if we lose one of the
three phases.

You can get a whole-building lighting/surge supressor to go in your main
panel too. If you have a tower, connect it's ground system to your service
grounding system too.

We're using about 15kw average/peak right now. It's pretty steady and only
changes with the AC compressors going on/off. Learn your utility rules for
demand and pricing. I just hooked up some hair dryers and ran them for 40
minutes to get us into the 20+kw peak category (medium business); higher
monthly minimum but much cheaper per kwh rate. 

As for your retail, you can use a single phase panel on a three phase
service, just realize you can't get 240v out of it. Your 120v circuits will
be 120 degrees out of phase with each other instead of 180 degrees out of
phase like on single phase.



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:31:41PM -0400, Robert West wrote:
> Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and 
> we ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical panels.  
> Total gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for the 
> retail and service area in the front but we have three phase coming into
the building.
> Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me that three phase protects 
> against power surges since it adds another transformer.
> 
>  
> 
> My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a 
> proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic 
> power company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)
> 
>  
> 
> Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of trouble
Not
> one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a stroke of luck, 
> one that didn't involve the lottery..  Figures.
> 
>  
> 
> Bob-
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 

> 
> 
> --
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--
/*
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KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Robert West]

Making Smores.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Don Grossman
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

Hey there

As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are
people doing with the excess outbound capacity?

Thanks

Don




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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Robert West]

About six years or so I assisted several members of the Tuscarawas tribe on
their reservation outside of Niagara Falls, New York in getting just basic
dial up speeds via their tethered cell phones.  (I was considered a genius
for that basic work around)  The council elders banned phone lines on the
reservation (but power lines were okay???) so it could only be obtained via
cell service.  I was the unofficial "Computer Guy" for the tribe on that
particular reservation.  Very nice people.

 

The only negative I saw was that there was one small group of people in the
tribe that controlled the money and they also had say over the land which
the individual tribe members did not own.  The members that I dealt with
expressed to me that they could be uprooted at any time if they pissed off
the wrong big shot elder.  Everything is politics and the reservations are
no exception and have taken it to even greater heights.  If you have any
infrastructure that you need to put in, be ready to grease palms and involve
whoever is in control of the cigarette and gasoline sales.  You also need to
pay attention to your contract wording because it may not apply on the
reservation.  Be mindful of who even signs.  They may not have the correct
authority in their power structure and would be worthless if it came to
enforcement.

 

Sad but true.

 

I moved away but still get phone calls from a few tribal members.

 

Bob-

 

What-da-hey.

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:29 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'; motor...@afmug.com
Cc: 'A Goldman'
Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

 

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is
hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.
Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country
that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working
with them.  Part of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are
successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to
hear the downside of anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to
develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in
the implementation of the projects.  

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in
the next week.  

 

Respectfully, 

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 




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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Philip Dorr]

Host a Linux (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, ect) Bittorrent seed box?

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> Already do takes 1-2Mbps at peak times.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> Host a server for speedtest.net
>
>
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
>
> WAVELINC
>
> P.O. Box 126
>
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>
> 419-562-6405
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:05 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth
>
>
>
> Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" bandwidth
> available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?
>
>
>
> Maybe help the community with content distribution.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
>
> Office: 937-552-2340
>
> Direct: 937-552-2343
>
> 1100 Wayne St
>
> Suite 1337
>
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman  wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey there
>
>
>
>        As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are
> people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Sam Tetherow]

Rather than kill the thread, can we drag it back on topic, kicking and 
screaming if we have to.

It appears that we have a group of people that are trying to put 
together some action that will bring broadband to reservations and they 
have asked for WISPA's input.  Whether they can be successful or not is 
yet to be seen but I would hate to see the discussion squelched just 
because a minority want to go off on tangents about social injustice 
perceived or otherwise.

Rick is looking for input from those that have dealt with tribal 
entities in the course of their business, good or bad, maybe we can get 
some pointers on how to handle it better, maybe we can get some 
references from an organization that is respected in the native 
community that will help smooth out some of the bumps, potholes or 
gaping chasms in the road to providing service to indian lands.

I for one would appreciate any assistance I could get in navigating 
tribal politics.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless



On 08/13/2010 09:16 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> Wow. Can we kill this thread now before it erupts in flames?
>
> Jerry Richardson
> Sent Mobile
>
> On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:12 PM, "MDK"  wrote:
>
>> YOu have it all wrong.
>>
>> Suppose you live in a land where your culture is incapable of
>> dealing with
>> the rest of the world around it, but the "invaders" are bleeding
>> hearts who
>> "give" you land and let you try to "continue" your incompatible
>> culture
>> unchanged in a world where it is outdated, outmoded and incapable of
>> survival.   In which case, the powers that be grant you money to
>> live on
>> while you pretend to pursue the "preservation" of your dead and
>> unviable
>> culture.It leads to a mess, a huge mess, a world of despondency,
>> want,
>> dependency and hopelessness.
>>
>> Ya'll need to understand that the indian wars were never over
>> land.The
>> "ownership" culture of the whole rest of the world was irrelevant.
>> Instead, the wars were fought over the idea that the world was being
>> transformed around them, and some believed they should fight it,
>> rather than
>> adjust.   IT was a fight over resources - the kind of inter-tribal
>> conflict
>> that had gone on for centuries untold - except it wasn't a fight
>> against
>> another tribe, it was a fight against a culture armed with knowledge,
>> technology, communication, law, and wealth.   And neither understood
>> it.
>>
>> Had we handed the western half of the country to the "natives" and
>> just drew
>> a line around them and made it "do not cross" boundaries, the
>> failures of
>> the various cultures would still have occurred, and so would have the
>> diseases, and so on.And worse, people with less scruples than the
>> schmucks who "wrote treaties" with them, would have invaded for the
>> wealth
>> and simply wiped 'em out.
>>
>> Sadly, reservations did nobody any favors, it perpetuated the myth
>> that
>> primitive culture can survive a modern world and that you can mix
>> the two
>> with impunity, using political considerations as the measuring cup.
>>
>> We know that cultures CAN adapt to both the knowledge and science of
>> the
>> world around them, and can adapt to changes in ideas about rights and
>> ownership and written law, etc.   Modern indians want the consumer
>> trappings
>> of modern life... while living without the cultural qualities that
>> made it
>> possible to achieve them - or at least the reservation mentality
>> seeks to
>> keep it that way.
>>
>> I've ranted long enough off topic...   Let's just leave at this :
>> Reservation mentality and attempts to "preserve" cultures unchanged
>> are
>> exercises in a level of imbecility so monumental, with results so
>> horrible,
>> it is simply a crime against humanity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++
>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
>> ++
>>
>> --
>> From: "Fred Goldstein"
>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:52 PM
>> To:; "WISPA General List"
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian
>> Reservation
>>
>>> At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
 Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?
>>>
>>> Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
>>> settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
>>> of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
>>> take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
>>> them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
>>> forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
>>> and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
>>> century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open
>>> casinos.
>>>
 Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an
 Integrator.  :-)
>>>
>>> When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(
>>>

Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Forbes Mercy]

Oh I don't blame them per se we all have a level of protectionism for 
what is ours, it's human nature.  They have an advantage and they use 
it, I know few CEO's that wouldn't.


On 8/13/2010 3:18 PM, Jack Unger wrote:
Gosh, I just do not understand how some native American peoples could 
feel so "territorial". What's up with that???


Forbes Mercy wrote:

Travis,

I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills 
and unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is "we want 
to do Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, 
same thing.  I should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us.


Forbes

On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that 
bans all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, 
sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 
2 or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it.


The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV 
and VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 
6+ years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They 
have two nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall 
butte right in the middle of their area... but they won't allow 
ANYONE on any of it because "they" are going to do it.


This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't 
compete in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them 
technology that would help all their people. Instead they just built 
a huge new Tribal headquarters and are trying to get money to build 
a huge gambling casino.


Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:
I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE 
amount of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it 
themselves, rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in 
broadband and maintain it.   As far as I know, it has been a 
disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't change.
This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get 
broadband to the most densely populated part of it.   I may still 
end up putting in wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of 
non-indians live out there.

++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

*From:* Rick Harnish 
*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
*To:* memb...@wispa.org  ; 'WISPA General 
List'  ; motor...@afmug.com 


*Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
*Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month 
which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and 
Intersections International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these 
meetings as well.  Between now and then, I would like to hear from 
WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in 
the past or are presently working with them.  Part of Alex's 
articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working 
with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the 
downside of anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to 
develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and 
the development of public/private partnerships so that many of the 
grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP 
partner to assist in the implementation of the projects.


If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear 
from you in the next week.


Respectfully,

*Rick Harnish*

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org





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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Travis Johnson]

Already do takes 1-2Mbps at peak times.

Travis
Microserv


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Host a server for speedtest.net

 

 


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 4:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

 

Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" 
bandwidth available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(


Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote:

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?
 
Maybe help the community with content distribution.
 
Josh Luthman

Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman   wrote:
  

Hey there
 
   As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
 
Thanks
 
Don
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] OS Humor

[Josh Luthman]

Excellent!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
 wrote:
> http://www.google.com/buzz/thastoner/T8pswjDZNmW/How-Fanboys-See-Operating-Systems
>
> hehe
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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[WISPA] OS Humor

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

http://www.google.com/buzz/thastoner/T8pswjDZNmW/How-Fanboys-See-Operating-Systems

hehe



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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Jerry Richardson]

Wow. Can we kill this thread now before it erupts in flames?

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 13, 2010, at 7:12 PM, "MDK"  wrote:

> YOu have it all wrong.
>
> Suppose you live in a land where your culture is incapable of  
> dealing with
> the rest of the world around it, but the "invaders" are bleeding  
> hearts who
> "give" you land and let you try to "continue" your incompatible  
> culture
> unchanged in a world where it is outdated, outmoded and incapable of
> survival.   In which case, the powers that be grant you money to  
> live on
> while you pretend to pursue the "preservation" of your dead and  
> unviable
> culture.It leads to a mess, a huge mess, a world of despondency,  
> want,
> dependency and hopelessness.
>
> Ya'll need to understand that the indian wars were never over  
> land.The
> "ownership" culture of the whole rest of the world was irrelevant.
> Instead, the wars were fought over the idea that the world was being
> transformed around them, and some believed they should fight it,  
> rather than
> adjust.   IT was a fight over resources - the kind of inter-tribal  
> conflict
> that had gone on for centuries untold - except it wasn't a fight  
> against
> another tribe, it was a fight against a culture armed with knowledge,
> technology, communication, law, and wealth.   And neither understood  
> it.
>
> Had we handed the western half of the country to the "natives" and  
> just drew
> a line around them and made it "do not cross" boundaries, the  
> failures of
> the various cultures would still have occurred, and so would have the
> diseases, and so on.And worse, people with less scruples than the
> schmucks who "wrote treaties" with them, would have invaded for the  
> wealth
> and simply wiped 'em out.
>
> Sadly, reservations did nobody any favors, it perpetuated the myth  
> that
> primitive culture can survive a modern world and that you can mix  
> the two
> with impunity, using political considerations as the measuring cup.
>
> We know that cultures CAN adapt to both the knowledge and science of  
> the
> world around them, and can adapt to changes in ideas about rights and
> ownership and written law, etc.   Modern indians want the consumer  
> trappings
> of modern life... while living without the cultural qualities that  
> made it
> possible to achieve them - or at least the reservation mentality  
> seeks to
> keep it that way.
>
> I've ranted long enough off topic...   Let's just leave at this :
> Reservation mentality and attempts to "preserve" cultures unchanged  
> are
> exercises in a level of imbecility so monumental, with results so  
> horrible,
> it is simply a crime against humanity.
>
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
> --
> From: "Fred Goldstein" 
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:52 PM
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian   
> Reservation
>
>> At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
>>> Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?
>>
>> Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
>> settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
>> of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
>> take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
>> them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
>> forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
>> and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
>> century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open  
>> casinos.
>>
>>> Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an  
>>> Integrator.  :-)
>>
>> When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>> ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>> +1 617 795 2701
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
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> --- 
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[MDK]

YOu have it all wrong.

Suppose you live in a land where your culture is incapable of dealing with 
the rest of the world around it, but the "invaders" are bleeding hearts who 
"give" you land and let you try to "continue" your incompatible culture 
unchanged in a world where it is outdated, outmoded and incapable of 
survival.   In which case, the powers that be grant you money to live on 
while you pretend to pursue the "preservation" of your dead and unviable 
culture.It leads to a mess, a huge mess, a world of despondency, want, 
dependency and hopelessness.

Ya'll need to understand that the indian wars were never over land.The 
"ownership" culture of the whole rest of the world was irrelevant. 
Instead, the wars were fought over the idea that the world was being 
transformed around them, and some believed they should fight it, rather than 
adjust.   IT was a fight over resources - the kind of inter-tribal conflict 
that had gone on for centuries untold - except it wasn't a fight against 
another tribe, it was a fight against a culture armed with knowledge, 
technology, communication, law, and wealth.   And neither understood it.

Had we handed the western half of the country to the "natives" and just drew 
a line around them and made it "do not cross" boundaries, the failures of 
the various cultures would still have occurred, and so would have the 
diseases, and so on.And worse, people with less scruples than the 
schmucks who "wrote treaties" with them, would have invaded for the wealth 
and simply wiped 'em out.

Sadly, reservations did nobody any favors, it perpetuated the myth that 
primitive culture can survive a modern world and that you can mix the two 
with impunity, using political considerations as the measuring cup.

We know that cultures CAN adapt to both the knowledge and science of the 
world around them, and can adapt to changes in ideas about rights and 
ownership and written law, etc.   Modern indians want the consumer trappings 
of modern life... while living without the cultural qualities that made it 
possible to achieve them - or at least the reservation mentality seeks to 
keep it that way.

I've ranted long enough off topic...   Let's just leave at this : 
Reservation mentality and attempts to "preserve" cultures unchanged are 
exercises in a level of imbecility so monumental, with results so horrible, 
it is simply a crime against humanity.




++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

--
From: "Fred Goldstein" 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:52 PM
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian  Reservation

> At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
>>Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?
>
> Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and
> settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90%
> of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and
> take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing
> them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are
> forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts
> and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another
> century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open casinos.
>
>>Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator.  :-)
>
> When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(
>
>
>  --
>  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Host a server for speedtest.net

 

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

 

Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" bandwidth
available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(

Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote: 

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?
 
Maybe help the community with content distribution.
 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman
  wrote:
  

Hey there
 
   As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are
people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
 
Thanks
 
Don
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[DJ Anderson]

Didn't know that... 

 

Hasn't stopped me. 

 

DJ Anderson

Shelby Broadband

502-722-9292

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

 

 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 17:20, DJ Anderson  wrote:

Get a TechNet account. 

 

300 Bucks a year and you get basically 10 licenses of all new and old
Microsoft products, you even get licenses for the new stuff that they
release.

 

With the (significant) caveat that they're for your own private
development/testing/evaluation use - you generally can't legally use
your Technet stuff in any sort of "production" environment.

 

David Smith

MVN.net

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/13/10
14:34:00




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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/13/2010 04:15 PM, lakeland wrote:
>Hm. How do you become a soverign nation?

Well, you start by having a big country.  Then you get invaded and 
settled by people with better weapons, and diseases that wipe out 90% 
of your population. Then wars are fought which kill more of them and 
take away more land, settled with treaties supposedly guaranteeing 
them sovereignty on at least limited land.  Then the survivors are 
forced off their land, at least all of the good land, into deserts 
and small reservations, where they're mistreated for another 
century.  Finally they get good lawyers and lobbyists and open casinos.

>Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator.  :-)

When you add it all up, I don't really think so. :-(


  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[MDK]

Mind you that "sovereign" part only applies to whatever they wish to apply it 
to.   They're not at all, when it suits them. IN this, they have their 
cake, eat it, and expect us to give them an unlimited supply, as well.   

++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++


From: Jack Unger 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:18 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation


Gosh, I just do not understand how some native American peoples could feel so 
"territorial". What's up with that???

Forbes Mercy wrote: 
  Travis,

  I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills and 
unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is "we want to do 
Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, same thing.  I 
should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us.

  Forbes

  On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans all 
"outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, garages, 
barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 other providers), 
but technically they could enforce it.

The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and VoIP 
solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ years and have 
not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two nice water towers, and 
a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in the middle of their area... but 
they won't allow ANYONE on any of it because "they" are going to do it.

This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete in 
the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that would help 
all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal headquarters and 
are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino.

Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote: 
  I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of 
money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than 
about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it.   As far as 
I know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't 
change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get 
broadband to the most densely populated part of it.   I may still end up 
putting in wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out 
there.  




  ++
  Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
  541-969-8200  509-386-4589
  ++


  From: Rick Harnish 
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
  To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com 
  Cc: 'A Goldman' 
  Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation


  I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which 
is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections 
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.  Between 
now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have 
worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them.  Part 
of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with 
the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of anyone's 
experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop alliances and 
collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the development of public/private 
partnerships so that many of the grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have 
a good local ISP partner to assist in the implementation of the projects.  

   

  If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you 
in the next week.  

   

  Respectfully, 

   

  Rick Harnish

  Executive Director

  WISPA

  260-307-4000 cell

  866-317-2851 WISPA Office

  Skype: rick.harnish.

  rharn...@wispa.org

   



--


  

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Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[David E. Smith]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 17:20, DJ Anderson  wrote:

>  Get a TechNet account.
>
>
>
> 300 Bucks a year and you get basically 10 licenses of all new and old
> Microsoft products, you even get licenses for the new stuff that they
> release.
>

With the (significant) caveat that they're for your own private
development/testing/evaluation use - you generally can't legally use your
Technet stuff in any sort of "production" environment.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[DJ Anderson]

Get a TechNet account. 

 

300 Bucks a year and you get basically 10 licenses of all new and old
Microsoft products, you even get licenses for the new stuff that they
release. 

 

http://technet.microsoft.com/

 

-DJ Anderson

Shelby Broadband

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:23 PM
To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

 

 

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 15:12,  wrote:

OK. Not being the computer genius that I want to be can anyone give me
an economical lead on Windows XP Pro SP3 operating system which is legal
and valid. I need programs for a handful of machines

 

You can still buy OEM media and licenses from a number of resellers,
like Newegg. XP Pro should be around $150 per license.

 

Depending on what you're doing, it may be easier/cheaper to get a small
volume license of Windows 7 Professional, then use "Windows XP Mode" (a
customized copy of Microsoft Virtual PC with a pre-installed XP
environment).

 

David Smith

MVN.net

 

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/13/10
02:34:00




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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Jack Unger]

Gosh, I just do not understand how some native American peoples could
feel so "territorial". What's up with that???

Forbes Mercy wrote:

  
Travis,
  
I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills and
unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is "we want to do
Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, same
thing.  I should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us.
  
Forbes
  
On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
  

The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans
all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds,
garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3
other providers), but technically they could enforce it.

The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and
VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+
years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two
nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in
the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it
because "they" are going to do it.

This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't
compete in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology
that would help all their people. Instead they just built a huge new
Tribal headquarters and are trying to get money to build a huge
gambling casino.

Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:

  
  
  
  I tried to, but it fell through.   
They
chose to spend a HUGE amount of money for Fiber to the curb and try to
administer it themselves, rather than about 15% of the cost for me to
bring in broadband and maintain it.   As far as I know, it has been a
disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't change.    This
is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to
the most densely populated part of it.   I may still end up putting in
wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out
there.  
   
   
   
   
  ++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++
  
  
  
  
  From: Rick
Harnish 
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
  To: memb...@wispa.org
; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com 
  Cc: 'A Goldman' 
  Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian
Reservation
  
  
  
  
  
  I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in
New
York later this month which is hosted by NABA (Native American
Broadband Association and Intersections International).  Alex Goldman
will be covering these meetings as well.  Between now and then, I would
like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have worked with
Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them.  Part of
Alex’s articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working
with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside
of anyone’s experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop
alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to
assist in the implementation of the projects.  
   
  If your ISP business is near a reservation,
I
would like to hear from you in the next week.  
   
  Respectfully, 
   
  Rick Harnish
  Executive Director
  WISPA
  260-307-4000 cell
  866-317-2851 WISPA Office
  Skype: rick.harnish.
  rharn...@wispa.org
   
  
   
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Brian Webster]

No preemption for a sovereign nation... rules don't apply to them

 



Brian

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Leon D. Zetekoff
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 5:42 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

 

On 08/13/2010 04:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 

The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans all
"outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, garages,
barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 other
providers), but technically they could enforce it.

FCC preemption here...Leon




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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Sam Tetherow]

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about strong arming any tribal 
entity, they have plenty of lawyers on staff who are more than happy to 
set in court and argue sovereign immunity as long as you want.  You may 
win in the end, but at what cost?

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Leon D. Zetekoff wrote:
> On 08/13/2010 04:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that 
>> bans all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, 
>> sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 
>> 2 or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it.
> FCC preemption here...Leon
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Leon D. Zetekoff]

 On 08/13/2010 04:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that 
bans all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, 
sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 
or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it.

FCC preemption here...Leon



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Forbes Mercy]

Travis,

I totally understand since 2003 I have tried to get on tribal hills and 
unless I piggyback on an existing tower all I can get is "we want to do 
Internet ourselves, I check back in every two to three years, same 
thing.  I should feel lucky they haven't tried to ban us.


Forbes

On 8/13/2010 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that 
bans all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, 
sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 
or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it.


The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and 
VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ 
years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have 
two nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right 
in the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of 
it because "they" are going to do it.


This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't 
compete in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them 
technology that would help all their people. Instead they just built a 
huge new Tribal headquarters and are trying to get money to build a 
huge gambling casino.


Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:
I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount 
of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, 
rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and 
maintain it.   As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're 
now so invested in it they won't change.This is a very small 
reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most 
densely populated part of it.   I may still end up putting in 
wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out 
there.

++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

*From:* Rick Harnish 
*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
*To:* memb...@wispa.org  ; 'WISPA General 
List'  ; motor...@afmug.com 


*Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
*Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month 
which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and 
Intersections International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these 
meetings as well.  Between now and then, I would like to hear from 
WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in 
the past or are presently working with them.  Part of Alex's articles 
will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the 
Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of 
anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop 
alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the 
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants 
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to 
assist in the implementation of the projects.


If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from 
you in the next week.


Respectfully,

*Rick Harnish*

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Grounding

[RC]

got some feelers out on the forums.. I'll let you know.

RC


chris cooper wrote:
> We've had numerous storms here over the past couple of weeks.  We have
> replaced a box full of Nano and Bullets.  This leads me to believe that
> our install practices might be improved.  How are others grounding these
> units effectively?
>
> Thanks
> Chris 
> Intelliwave
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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>
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>
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>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] MS Sys7 connection Problem, need help

[David E. Smith]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 16:08, Ron Wallace  wrote:

> All,
>
> Since the last week of July we have had a number, 8-10 now, of customers
> that have MicroSoft System 7 on thier PC's, and they cannot connect to the
> Canopy network.  After configuring the Local Area Connection properly, when
> the browser is open the 'local area connection' looses access to the net.
>
> Has anyone else experienced similar behavior?  I'm not that familiar Sys7.
> At the same time my laptop,running XP, will hook-up and 'go nuts'.  Any
> clues, I need help.



If you're using the Canopy to NAT, its default IP is 169.254.1.1. That's the
same block of IPs used by Windows for DHCP link-local addresses (
169.254.0.0/16). Windows 7 refuses to route traffic out through a link-local
address.

Solution: change your Canopy's internal IP from the default 169.254.1.1 to
something like 10.0.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 (basically, one of the proper RFC1918
blocks).

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Sam Tetherow]

This seems to be a very typical scenario from most people I've talked 
to. I've tried working with the tribe and haven't gotten very far 
despite 12 meetings alone with the Tribal Utility Commission. I've taken 
the tact now that I work with the communities just like we've done in 
any other community we want to provide service in.

While the potential seems to be there in working with the tribe to bring 
wireless to tribal land, but the reality is that the fastest way to get 
anything done in my opinion is to tackle the problem the same way as any 
other expansion area.

I would love to see this collaboration with NABA bear fruit. I'm not 
sure what type of influence the NABA people have, but dealing with 
tribal government is very much like dealing with federal government, the 
deals take a long time to mature and to be honest, the people in power 
tend to change faster than it takes to get the deal done.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless


Travis Johnson wrote:
> The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that 
> bans all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, 
> sheds, garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 
> or 3 other providers), but technically they could enforce it.
>
> The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and 
> VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ 
> years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have 
> two nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right 
> in the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of 
> it because "they" are going to do it.
>
> This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't 
> compete in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them 
> technology that would help all their people. Instead they just built a 
> huge new Tribal headquarters and are trying to get money to build a 
> huge gambling casino.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> MDK wrote:
>> I tried to, but it fell through. They chose to spend a HUGE amount of 
>> money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, 
>> rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and 
>> maintain it. As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're 
>> now so invested in it they won't change. This is a very small 
>> reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most 
>> densely populated part of it. I may still end up putting in wireless 
>> to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out there.
>> ++
>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>> 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
>> ++
>>
>> *From:* Rick Harnish 
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
>> *To:* memb...@wispa.org  ; 'WISPA General 
>> List'  ; motor...@afmug.com 
>> 
>> *Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
>> *Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation
>>
>> I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month 
>> which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and 
>> Intersections International). Alex Goldman will be covering these 
>> meetings as well. Between now and then, I would like to hear from 
>> WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in 
>> the past or are presently working with them. Part of Alex’s articles 
>> will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the 
>> Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of 
>> anyone’s experiences. NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop 
>> alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the 
>> development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants 
>> awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to 
>> assist in the implementation of the projects.
>>
>> If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from 
>> you in the next week.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> *Rick Harnish*
>>
>> Executive Director
>>
>> WISPA
>>
>> 260-307-4000 cell
>>
>> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office
>>
>> Skype: rick.harnish.
>>
>> rharn...@wispa.org
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 

[WISPA] MS Sys7 connection Problem, need help

[Ron Wallace]

All,

Since the last week of July we have had a number, 8-10 now, of customers that 
have MicroSoft System 7 on thier PC's, and they cannot connect to the Canopy 
network. After configuring the Local Area Connection properly, when the browser 
is open the 'local area connection' looses access to the net.

Has anyone else experienced similar behavior? I'm not that familiar Sys7. At 
the same time my laptop,running XP, will hook-up and 'go nuts'. Any clues, I 
need help.

Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson Dt.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone: (517)547-8410
Mobile: (517)270-2410
e-mail: rwall...@newgenet.net
 rwall...@tigernet.bz





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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Rick Harnish]

These are all great suggestions I will arm myself with.  I don't know
whether it will help but it can't hurt.

 

Rick

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 4:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

 

The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans all
"outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, garages,
barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 other
providers), but technically they could enforce it.

The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and VoIP
solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ years and
have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two nice water
towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in the middle of
their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it because "they" are
going to do it.

This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete in
the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that would help
all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal headquarters and
are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino.

Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote: 

I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of
money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than
about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it.   As far
as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they
won't change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to
get broadband to the most densely populated part of it.   I may still end up
putting in wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live
out there.  

 

 

 

 

++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

 

From: Rick Harnish   

Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM

To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General   List' ;
motor...@afmug.com 

Cc: 'A   Goldman' 

Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

 

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is
hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.
Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country
that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working
with them.  Part of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are
successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to
hear the downside of anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to
develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in
the implementation of the projects.  

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in
the next week.  

 

Respectfully, 

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 

  _  





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  _  



 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Travis Johnson]

The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans 
all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, 
garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 
other providers), but technically they could enforce it.


The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and 
VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ 
years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two 
nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in 
the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it 
because "they" are going to do it.


This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete 
in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that 
would help all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal 
headquarters and are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino.


Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:
I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount 
of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, 
rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and 
maintain it.   As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're 
now so invested in it they won't change.This is a very small 
reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most densely 
populated part of it.   I may still end up putting in wireless to the 
"remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out there. 
 
 
 
 
++

Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

*From:* Rick Harnish 
*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
*To:* memb...@wispa.org  ; 'WISPA General 
List'  ; motor...@afmug.com 


*Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
*Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month 
which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and 
Intersections International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these 
meetings as well.  Between now and then, I would like to hear from 
WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in 
the past or are presently working with them.  Part of Alex's articles 
will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the 
Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of 
anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop 
alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the 
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants 
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to 
assist in the implementation of the projects. 

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from 
you in the next week. 

 


Respectfully,

 


*Rick Harnish*

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 






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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[jp]

I put 3 phase into my datacenter because I have a three phase generator 
and I knew eventually my load would be too big for a 1-phase generator 
and potentially too big for a 1-phase service.

I know of no reason why it would handle lightning any differently. It 
has a neutral/ground just like single phase. 

If you lose one phase and have nothing to detect that, bad things can 
happen. Same with single phase; we had a storm knock out the neutral 
wire at one of sites a few weeks ago. Water tower pumps on the same line 
made our voltage go between 70 and 250v at the 120v outlet. At our 
datacenter, the generator autotransfer swtich will switch to generator 
if we lose one of the three phases.

You can get a whole-building lighting/surge supressor to go in your main 
panel too. If you have a tower, connect it's ground system to your 
service grounding system too.

We're using about 15kw average/peak right now. It's pretty steady and 
only changes with the AC compressors going on/off. Learn your utility 
rules for demand and pricing. I just hooked up some hair dryers and ran 
them for 40 minutes to get us into the 20+kw peak category (medium 
business); higher monthly minimum but much cheaper per kwh rate. 

As for your retail, you can use a single phase panel on a three phase 
service, just realize you can't get 240v out of it. Your 120v circuits 
will be 120 degrees out of phase with each other instead of 180 degrees 
out of phase like on single phase.



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:31:41PM -0400, Robert West wrote:
> Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and we
> ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical panels.  Total
> gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for the retail and
> service area in the front but we have three phase coming into the building.
> Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me that three phase protects
> against power surges since it adds another transformer.  
> 
>  
> 
> My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a
> proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic power
> company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)  
> 
>  
> 
> Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of trouble   Not
> one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a stroke of luck, one
> that didn't involve the lottery..  Figures.
> 
>  
> 
> Bob-
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 

> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[MDK]

I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount of money 
for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, rather than about 
15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and maintain it.   As far as I 
know, it has been a disaster, but they're now so invested in it they won't 
change.This is a very small reservation, and they only wanted to get 
broadband to the most densely populated part of it.   I may still end up 
putting in wireless to the "remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out 
there.  




++
Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++


From: Rick Harnish 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org ; 'WISPA General List' ; motor...@afmug.com 
Cc: 'A Goldman' 
Subject: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation


I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is 
hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections 
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.  Between 
now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have 
worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them.  Part 
of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with 
the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of anyone's 
experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop alliances and 
collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the development of public/private 
partnerships so that many of the grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have 
a good local ISP partner to assist in the implementation of the projects.  

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in 
the next week.  

 

Respectfully, 

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 









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Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[David E. Smith]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 15:12,  wrote:

> OK. Not being the computer genius that I want to be can anyone give me an
> economical lead on Windows XP Pro SP3 operating system which is legal and
> valid. I need programs for a handful of machines


You can still buy OEM media and licenses from a number of resellers, like
Newegg. XP Pro should be around $150 per license.

Depending on what you're doing, it may be easier/cheaper to get a small
volume license of Windows 7 Professional, then use "Windows XP Mode" (a
customized copy of Microsoft Virtual PC with a pre-installed XP
environment).

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[Josh Luthman]

Newegg has home OEM...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116583&cm_re=windows_xp-_-32-116-583-_-Product

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:12 PM,   wrote:
> OK. Not being the computer genius that I want to be can anyone give me an 
> economical lead on Windows XP Pro SP3 operating system which is legal and 
> valid. I need programs for a handful of machines
>
> Tnx
>
> -B-
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[lakeland]

Hm. How do you become a soverign nation? 
Sounds like its a lot better than being a WISP or an Integrator.  :-)

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Charles Wu (CTI)" 
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:02:47 
To: motor...@afmug.com; 
memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Cc: 'A Goldman'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation




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[WISPA] OT Friday. ;-)

[lakeland]

OK. Not being the computer genius that I want to be can anyone give me an 
economical lead on Windows XP Pro SP3 operating system which is legal and 
valid. I need programs for a handful of machines

Tnx

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Travis Johnson]

Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" bandwidth 
available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(


Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote:

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?

Maybe help the community with content distribution.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman  wrote:
  

Hey there

   As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are 
people doing with the excess outbound capacity?

Thanks

Don



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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Charles Wu (CTI)]

We worked with a bunch of Indian tribes in the Grand Canyon several years back 
- we learned that you shouldn't give them terms, cause if they don't pay, since 
they're a sovereign nation, you can't sue them...your only recourse is declare 
war

-Charles

From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:29 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List'; motor...@afmug.com
Cc: 'A Goldman'
Subject: [Motorola II] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is 
hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections 
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.  Between 
now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country that may have 
worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working with them.  Part 
of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with 
the Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of anyone's 
experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop alliances and 
collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the development of public/private 
partnerships so that many of the grants awarded to the Indian tribes will have 
a good local ISP partner to assist in the implementation of the projects.

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in 
the next week.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
Executive Director
WISPA
260-307-4000 cell
866-317-2851 WISPA Office
Skype: rick.harnish.
rharn...@wispa.org




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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Butch Evans]

On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 12:50 -0700, Don Grossman wrote: 
> As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers 
> what are people doing with the excess outbound capacity?

You could set up a hosting service.  Maybe a remote backup service (not
ON your network, but offsite somewhere).

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Josh Luthman]

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?

Maybe help the community with content distribution.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman  wrote:
> Hey there
>
>        As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are 
> people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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>
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>
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>



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[WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Don Grossman]

Hey there

As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are 
people doing with the excess outbound capacity?

Thanks

Don



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[WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Rick Harnish]

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month which is
hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and Intersections
International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these meetings as well.
Between now and then, I would like to hear from WISPs across the country
that may have worked with Indian tribes in the past or are presently working
with them.  Part of Alex's articles will focus on how private ISPs are
successfully working with the Indian Nation, however I would also like to
hear the downside of anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to
develop alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to assist in
the implementation of the projects.  

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from you in
the next week.  

 

Respectfully, 

 

Rick Harnish

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 




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Re: [WISPA] Notes on Int'l Wireless Summit currently underway in Vienna

[Patrick Leary]

Lucky you!. Vienna is on my "wanna go" list and is consistently rated as
a top 3 city worldwide (vancouver and Sydney usually hold the other two
spaces). I will look forward to reading your posts Ben. Should be
interesting what folks are doing outside our boundaries.
 
Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile
 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Ben West
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:08 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Notes on Int'l Wireless Summit currently underway in
Vienna


I operate a small, experimental 2.4GHz mesh in St. Louis called
WasabiNet, and I was happy I could attend the WISPA conference held here
last month.

In the course of developing WasabiNet, I received a small grant to
travel to the Int'l Summit for Community Wireless currently underway in
Vienna (wirelesssummit.org).

Lots of neat people and ideas flitting about here.  For those curious,
I'm keeping daily notes of the conference here:
https://sites.google.com/site/wasabinetwifi/Home/updates/wasabinetatwire
lesssummitvienna
https://sites.google.com/site/wasabinetwifi/Home/updates/wirelesssummitv
iennaday2

-- 
Ben West
westbyw...@gmail.com




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[WISPA] Notes on Int'l Wireless Summit currently underway in Vienna

[Ben West]

I operate a small, experimental 2.4GHz mesh in St. Louis called WasabiNet,
and I was happy I could attend the WISPA conference held here last month.

In the course of developing WasabiNet, I received a small grant to travel to
the Int'l Summit for Community Wireless currently underway in Vienna (
wirelesssummit.org).

Lots of neat people and ideas flitting about here.  For those curious, I'm
keeping daily notes of the conference here:
https://sites.google.com/site/wasabinetwifi/Home/updates/wasabinetatwirelesssummitvienna
https://sites.google.com/site/wasabinetwifi/Home/updates/wirelesssummitviennaday2

-- 
Ben West
westbyw...@gmail.com



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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[Frank Crawford]

Thanks Ralph for clearing up my confusion about 3 phase metering.
Frank

On 8/13/2010 6:46 AM, Ralph wrote:


If you don't NEEED three phase, don't install it.

The metering is more complex, there are 3 transformers, and the basic 
monthly bill is probably more expensive as they pass their costs of 
the complexity on to you.


Someone wrote about the "Demand Meter" with the peak indicator, and I 
wanted to clear up one thing that was said.


Demand meters usually work on a 15 or 50 (and rarely 60) minute 
period. If you exceed the highest peak of use during any of these 
periods, your billing rate ratchets up.


This rate remains for a period, sometimes as long as 13 months, during 
which your per KWH charge is higher.


It does not cause you to be billed the same total amount whether or 
not you use it- it only affects the RATE.


These are called demand charges and supposedly go to offset the cost 
of the extra cost they incurred to handle your little spike.


I used to be the lead Field Engineer for a company that specialized in 
reading the meter pulses and predicting the demand minute by minute so 
that the system could shed load in order to keep from hitting a new 30 
minute demand.  It was really amazing- I could set the demand limit 
and then watch as it cycled fans, compressors, lights and other energy 
users to keep that demand down. We even built a box that controlled 
the load on big A/C chillers, which basically turned the water 
temperature up a degree or so until the prediction went down.  This 
gear was in large buildings: hospitals, schools, factories, arenas, etc.


The worst case I ever saw (or the easiest one to sell) was a Hercules 
plant in Louisiana, where a single peak overage cost them 0ne million 
dollars over the next 13 months!


Ralph

*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Robert West

*Sent:* Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:32 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] Electrical Question...

Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and 
we ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical 
panels.  Total gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for 
the retail and service area in the front but we have three phase 
coming into the building.  Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me 
that three phase protects against power surges since it adds another 
transformer.


My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a 
proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic 
power company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)


Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of 
trouble   Not one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a 
stroke of luck, one that didn't involve the lottery  Figures.


Bob-





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Grounding

[RickG]

Are you using shielded cable? Also, surge protection on the POE?

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:39 AM, chris cooper wrote:

>
>
> We've had numerous storms here over the past couple of weeks.  We have
> replaced a box full of Nano and Bullets.  This leads me to believe that
> our install practices might be improved.  How are others grounding these
> units effectively?
>
> Thanks
> Chris
> Intelliwave
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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[WISPA] UBNT Grounding

[chris cooper]

We've had numerous storms here over the past couple of weeks.  We have
replaced a box full of Nano and Bullets.  This leads me to believe that
our install practices might be improved.  How are others grounding these
units effectively?

Thanks
Chris 
Intelliwave




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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[Ralph]

If you don't NEEED three phase, don't install it.

The metering is more complex, there are 3 transformers, and the basic
monthly bill is probably more expensive as they pass their costs of the
complexity on to you.

 

Someone wrote about the "Demand Meter" with the peak indicator, and I wanted
to clear up one thing that was said.

Demand meters usually work on a 15 or 50 (and rarely 60) minute period. If
you exceed the highest peak of use during any of these periods, your billing
rate ratchets up.

This rate remains for a period, sometimes as long as 13 months, during which
your per KWH charge is higher.  

It does not cause you to be billed the same total amount whether or not you
use it- it only affects the RATE.

These are called demand charges and supposedly go to offset the cost of the
extra cost they incurred to handle your little spike.

 

I used to be the lead Field Engineer for a company that specialized in
reading the meter pulses and predicting the demand minute by minute so that
the system could shed load in order to keep from hitting a new 30 minute
demand.  It was really amazing- I could set the demand limit and then watch
as it cycled fans, compressors, lights and other energy users to keep that
demand down. We even built a box that controlled the load on big A/C
chillers, which basically turned the water temperature up a degree or so
until the prediction went down.  This gear was in large buildings:
hospitals, schools, factories, arenas, etc.

 

The worst case I ever saw (or the easiest one to sell) was a Hercules plant
in Louisiana, where a single peak overage cost them 0ne million dollars over
the next 13 months!

 

Ralph

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Electrical Question...

 

Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and we
ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical panels.  Total
gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for the retail and
service area in the front but we have three phase coming into the building.
Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me that three phase protects
against power surges since it adds another transformer.  

 

My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a
proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic power
company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)  

 

Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of trouble   Not
one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a stroke of luck, one
that didn't involve the lottery..  Figures.

 

Bob-

 

 




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[WISPA] FS: 3 5750 AP's P10 Connectorized

[Chuck Hogg]

I bought them from either PDMNet or SurplusWireless.  They have a very
nice connectorization done to them, with the actual Motorola Canopy
Pigtails.  They were never put into service by me, and they appear to be
new.

 

$500 each or make me an offer.

 

(This message was delayed delivery by outlook, hopefully, if it goes out
before Friday I apologize.)

 

Regards,

Chuck Hogg

Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com

http://www.shelbybb.com

 




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Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

[Robert West]

Take the cover off and look at the connectors on the board.   They are hot
glued on but the ones I had go bad, the glue became brittle and broke off.
I found that the connector to the board was very loose.  As in, too big to
snap into the board.  A manufacturing snafu I suspect with a nice amount of
hot glue keeping it on.  Mine started in the spring after being up for a
winter.  They would come and go, levels up and down.  Eventually burned out
the boards.  Replaced the boards with the Light Station boards.  Have to
remove the power connector though.

 

The ones that didn't burn out and still seemed to have good throughput, I
just replaced the N connectors.  On the connectorized versions that is.

 

I really WAS amazed to see the connectors just fall away with the glue
removed.

 

I still have 2 in the living room in pieces.  Did an RMA on them but never
sent them in.  Always too much going on.

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

 

How did you resolve this.  I have 3 that intermittently connect and
disconnect that could explain it.

 

Steve Barnes

General Manager

PCS-WIN  

RC-WiFi W  ireless Internet Service

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:49 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

 

How old is your PS2?  A year or so ago, a batch of PS2's had an issue with
bad MMCX connectors to the internal board.  Caused me some crazy low
throughput issues.  

 

Bob-

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Dueck
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

 

Hi Everyone,

I had a bunch of my equipment burnt on a tower.  Previously I had all
Tranzeo.  Now I put up a Powerstation2 for my main AP with a Tranzeo 17 dbi
sector.  I'm getting a max throughput of around 3 mbits.  That's looking at
the throughput graphs in the PS2.  Once I'm reaching that throughput though,
pings to certain clients go way up to over 2 seconds.  I do my testing from
linux, using

ping  -i .01 -s 1024  or even take the 1024 up to 2048.

I can do this to 3 clients at 1024 packet size..Once I start pushing it
to a 4th client, pings get lost and replies come back 2 seconds later.

Is this normal??  I'm looking into it because I have clients complaining
they loose connection completely sometimes.  When I ping to 3 clients, I can
hardly ping any other clients.  no response.  I've pinged the AP during this
whole time and it never flaps. Very solid at a few ms.

The previous Tranzeo AP had no problems.  Clients are mostly Tranzeo SL2s
and their distances vary from 1/2 mile to about 3 miles

Here's the station list with their signal strength:


Station MAC

Signal, dBm

Noise, dBm

Tx Rate

Rx Rate

Idle (sec)


00:15:6D:1A:0A:05  

-54

-96

48M

36M

0


00:60:B3:E9:24:25  

-69

-96

24M

18M

0


00:13:4F:10:09:0F  

-49

-96

48M

36M

0


00:15:6D:1A:0F:D7  

-74

-96

11M

18M

0


00:13:4F:00:C5:DB  

-78

-96

18M

5M

15


00:1C:F0:EA:57:06  

-75

-96

11M

11M

0


00:13:4F:00:C5:C2  

-72

-96

36M

18M

15


00:60:B3:45:37:60  

-75

-96

11M

12M

0


00:13:4F:00:97:96  

-52

-96

54M

36M

0


00:13:4F:00:8E:E5  

-64

-96

48M

11M

0


00:13:4F:00:A6:E6  

-65

-96

36M

24M

0


00:13:4F:00:C3:91  

-77

-96

5M

12M

15


00:13:4F:00:B7:FA  

-82

-96

36M

1M

15


00:60:B3:59:89:54  

-72

-96

36M

18M

0


00:13:4F:00:C5:C4  

-77

-96

18M

12M

0


00:13:4F:00:A7:00  

-76

-96

11M

12M

15


00:0B:6B:37:E5:2B  

-67

-96

24M

36M

15


00:13:4F:10:01:D5  

-54

-96

11M

36M

0


00:13:4F:00:8B:83  

-68

-96

36M

18M

0


00:13:4F:00:D8:08  

-81

-96

12M

1M

0


00:13:4F:10:02:3E  

-73

-96

48M

12M

30


00:60:B3:E9:22:A0  

-84

-96

1M

12M

0



Anyone have any idea what it could be?




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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[Robert West]

Yeah, has a demand meter but other than the AC, no spikes in usage.

 

Old location was on the high side but was consistent.  

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Frank Crawford
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question...

 

3 phase metering (as in how much you pay the utility )is done different than
single phase, I would check with your utility, also check your initial costs
of 3 phase equipment - meter base and entrance panel. How I understand the
billing in our area is, 3 phase meter has a needle that is moved to the max
use and you are billed that amount whether the elec is on or off. Just
check, it may not be important but then again.

Frank

On 8/12/2010 8:31 PM, Robert West wrote: 

Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and we
ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical panels.  Total
gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for the retail and
service area in the front but we have three phase coming into the building.
Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me that three phase protects
against power surges since it adds another transformer.  

 

My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a
proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic power
company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)  

 

Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of trouble   Not
one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a stroke of luck, one
that didn't involve the lottery..  Figures.

 

Bob-

 

 

 
 
 
 


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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

[Steve Barnes]

How did you resolve this.  I have 3 that intermittently connect and disconnect 
that could explain it.

Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:49 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

How old is your PS2?  A year or so ago, a batch of PS2's had an issue with bad 
MMCX connectors to the internal board.  Caused me some crazy low throughput 
issues.

Bob-



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Mark Dueck
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

Hi Everyone,

I had a bunch of my equipment burnt on a tower.  Previously I had all Tranzeo.  
Now I put up a Powerstation2 for my main AP with a Tranzeo 17 dbi sector.  I'm 
getting a max throughput of around 3 mbits.  That's looking at the throughput 
graphs in the PS2.  Once I'm reaching that throughput though, pings to certain 
clients go way up to over 2 seconds.  I do my testing from linux, using

ping  -i .01 -s 1024  or even take the 1024 up to 2048.

I can do this to 3 clients at 1024 packet size..Once I start pushing it to 
a 4th client, pings get lost and replies come back 2 seconds later.

Is this normal??  I'm looking into it because I have clients complaining they 
loose connection completely sometimes.  When I ping to 3 clients, I can hardly 
ping any other clients.  no response.  I've pinged the AP during this whole 
time and it never flaps. Very solid at a few ms.

The previous Tranzeo AP had no problems.  Clients are mostly Tranzeo SL2s and 
their distances vary from 1/2 mile to about 3 miles

Here's the station list with their signal strength:
Station MAC

Signal, dBm

Noise, dBm

Tx Rate

Rx Rate

Idle (sec)

00:15:6D:1A:0A:05

-54

-96

48M

36M

0

00:60:B3:E9:24:25

-69

-96

24M

18M

0

00:13:4F:10:09:0F

-49

-96

48M

36M

0

00:15:6D:1A:0F:D7

-74

-96

11M

18M

0

00:13:4F:00:C5:DB

-78

-96

18M

5M

15

00:1C:F0:EA:57:06

-75

-96

11M

11M

0

00:13:4F:00:C5:C2

-72

-96

36M

18M

15

00:60:B3:45:37:60

-75

-96

11M

12M

0

00:13:4F:00:97:96

-52

-96

54M

36M

0

00:13:4F:00:8E:E5

-64

-96

48M

11M

0

00:13:4F:00:A6:E6

-65

-96

36M

24M

0

00:13:4F:00:C3:91

-77

-96

5M

12M

15

00:13:4F:00:B7:FA

-82

-96

36M

1M

15

00:60:B3:59:89:54

-72

-96

36M

18M

0

00:13:4F:00:C5:C4

-77

-96

18M

12M

0

00:13:4F:00:A7:00

-76

-96

11M

12M

15

00:0B:6B:37:E5:2B

-67

-96

24M

36M

15

00:13:4F:10:01:D5

-54

-96

11M

36M

0

00:13:4F:00:8B:83

-68

-96

36M

18M

0

00:13:4F:00:D8:08

-81

-96

12M

1M

0

00:13:4F:10:02:3E

-73

-96

48M

12M

30

00:60:B3:E9:22:A0

-84

-96

1M

12M

0



Anyone have any idea what it could be?



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Re: [WISPA] Powerstation2 with very low throughput

[Mark Dueck]

It's a brand new PS purchased about 2 months ago. 

I'll have to try B only then to see if that will have better
performance.

I've been checking all the clients, and I see some of them with very
high retries.  They are pushing through trees.  Could be a likely cause
right?


On 08/12/2010 11:36 PM, RickG wrote:
I'm assuming you have, but I've never had much luck with
"G mode". With that said, I just fixed a similar issue by using a a
Bullet2HP (non "M"). -RickG
  
  On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Mark Dueck 
wrote:
  
Hi Everyone,

I had a bunch of my equipment burnt on a tower.  Previously I had all
Tranzeo.  Now I put up a Powerstation2 for my main AP with a Tranzeo 17
dbi sector.  I'm getting a max throughput of around 3 mbits.  That's
looking at the throughput graphs in the PS2.  Once I'm reaching that
throughput though, pings to certain clients go way up to over 2
seconds.  I do my testing from linux, using

ping  -i .01 -s 1024  or even take the 1024 up to 2048.

I can do this to 3 clients at 1024 packet size..    Once I start
pushing it to a 4th client, pings get lost and replies come back 2
seconds later.

Is this normal??  I'm looking into it because I have clients
complaining they loose connection completely sometimes.  When I ping to
3 clients, I can hardly ping any other clients.  no response.  I've
pinged the AP during this whole time and it never flaps. Very solid at
a few ms.

The previous Tranzeo AP had no problems.  Clients are mostly Tranzeo
SL2s and their distances vary from 1/2 mile to about 3 miles

Here's the station list with their signal strength:


  

  Station MAC
  Signal, dBm
  Noise, dBm
  Tx Rate
  Rx Rate
  Idle (sec)


  00:15:6D:1A:0A:05
  -54
  -96
  48M
  36M
  0


  00:60:B3:E9:24:25
  -69
  -96
  24M
  18M
  0


  00:13:4F:10:09:0F
  -49
  -96
  48M
  36M
  0


  00:15:6D:1A:0F:D7
  -74
  -96
  11M
  18M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:C5:DB
  -78
  -96
  18M
  5M
  15


  00:1C:F0:EA:57:06
  -75
  -96
  11M
  11M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:C5:C2
  -72
  -96
  36M
  18M
  15


  00:60:B3:45:37:60
  -75
  -96
  11M
  12M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:97:96
  -52
  -96
  54M
  36M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:8E:E5
  -64
  -96
  48M
  11M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:A6:E6
  -65
  -96
  36M
  24M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:C3:91
  -77
  -96
  5M
  12M
  15


  00:13:4F:00:B7:FA
  -82
  -96
  36M
  1M
  15


  00:60:B3:59:89:54
  -72
  -96
  36M
  18M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:C5:C4
  -77
  -96
  18M
  12M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:A7:00
  -76
  -96
  11M
  12M
  15


  00:0B:6B:37:E5:2B
  -67
  -96
  24M
  36M
  15


  00:13:4F:10:01:D5
  -54
  -96
  11M
  36M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:8B:83
  -68
  -96
  36M
  18M
  0


  00:13:4F:00:D8:08
  -81
  -96
  12M
  1M
  0


  00:13:4F:10:02:3E
  -73
  -96
  48M
  12M
  30


  00:60:B3:E9:22:A0
  -84
  -96
  1M
  12M
  0

  



Anyone have any idea what it could be?





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Re: [WISPA] off topic -- sky show tonight

[Mike]

Yeah, we have a couple of telescopes.  I know very little actually, but with
computer control can find all the objects. :-) Ain't technology great?
 
Mike
 
Mike Gilchrist
Disruptive Technologist
Advanced Wireless Express
P.O. Box 255
Toledo, IA   52342
239.770.6203
m...@aweiowa.com
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:49 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] off topic -- sky show tonight

Okay, Mike.  So I take it that you are also an amateur astronomer.
Celestron  C14 and 12" StarHopper on this end.

Bob-

I suffer from aperture envy.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:36 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] off topic -- sky show tonight

The show begins at sundown when Venus, Saturn, Mars and the crescent Moon
pop out of the western twilight in tight conjunction. All four heavenly
objects will fit within a circle about 10 degrees in diameter, beaming
together through the dusky colors of sunset. No telescope is required to
enjoy this naked-eye event.

Stay up late and the Perseid meteor shower will be peaking too.

Friendly Regards,

Mike Gilchrist
Disruptive Technologist
Advanced Wireless Express
P.O. Box 255
Toledo, IA   52342
239.770.6203
m...@aweiowa.com
 






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