Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Josh Reynolds]

PS, We have ~ 1400 subs and don't see but around 36Kpps going through 
our core even right now (peak time, 9pm).


*Josh Reynolds*
Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS
j...@spitwspots.com | www.spitwspots.com

On 04/16/2014 08:03 PM, Mike Lyon wrote:


Whats the magic PPS number for the Rockets? I forget...

On Apr 16, 2014 8:52 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" > wrote:


My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per
second).

Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in
quantity...

So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.
How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?

 Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you
will have to describe your network a bit

Bridged ? Routed ?
What is doing Traffic Shaping ?

How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.

I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are
describing..

:)

Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Art Stephens" mailto:asteph...@ptera.com>>
*To: *"WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
*Sent: *Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
*Subject: *[WISPA] Rocket AP through put

Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have
quite a few of these in the field with UBNT Sectors and
KPerformance Sectors.

What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at
night when they call into after hours support. We come in the
next day and run speed tests to the radios and they look ok.

Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.

Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home
connected to one of those APs during the day and he got 15M.
Then that evening he tried to watch Netflix - biggest
complaint from most subs - and it would not start. He ran a
speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs.

Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP
will bring the through put down to 500K?

We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a
given AP but need to figure where the breaking point is if
that makes any sense.

Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.

-- 
Arthur Stephens

Senior Networking Technician
Ptera Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019
509-927-7837 
ptera.com 
facebook.com/PteraInc  |
twitter.com/Ptera 
 
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Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any
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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Josh Reynolds]

25Kpps

*Josh Reynolds*
Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS
j...@spitwspots.com | www.spitwspots.com

On 04/16/2014 08:03 PM, Mike Lyon wrote:


Whats the magic PPS number for the Rockets? I forget...

On Apr 16, 2014 8:52 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" > wrote:


My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per
second).

Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in
quantity...

So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.
How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?

 Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you
will have to describe your network a bit

Bridged ? Routed ?
What is doing Traffic Shaping ?

How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.

I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are
describing..

:)

Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Art Stephens" mailto:asteph...@ptera.com>>
*To: *"WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
*Sent: *Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
*Subject: *[WISPA] Rocket AP through put

Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have
quite a few of these in the field with UBNT Sectors and
KPerformance Sectors.

What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at
night when they call into after hours support. We come in the
next day and run speed tests to the radios and they look ok.

Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.

Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home
connected to one of those APs during the day and he got 15M.
Then that evening he tried to watch Netflix - biggest
complaint from most subs - and it would not start. He ran a
speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs.

Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP
will bring the through put down to 500K?

We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a
given AP but need to figure where the breaking point is if
that makes any sense.

Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.

-- 
Arthur Stephens

Senior Networking Technician
Ptera Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019
509-927-7837 
ptera.com 
facebook.com/PteraInc  |
twitter.com/Ptera 
 
-

"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety
information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it
was originally addressed.
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any
views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of
the author and are not intended to represent those of the
company."

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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Josh Reynolds]

We have TONS of subs on a bridged (but vlan'd) network, over multiple 
multiple multiple hops. We don't have PPS issues. Know why? We block 
torrents.


Want to torrent on our network? setup a vpn outside of it.

*Josh Reynolds*
Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS
j...@spitwspots.com | www.spitwspots.com

On 04/16/2014 07:52 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per second).

Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in quantity...

So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.
How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?

 Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you will 
have to describe your network a bit


Bridged ? Routed ?
What is doing Traffic Shaping ?

How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.

I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are describing..

:)

Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



*From: *"Art Stephens" 
*To: *"WISPA General List" 
*Sent: *Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
*Subject: *[WISPA] Rocket AP through put

Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a
few of these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors.

What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night
when they call into after hours support. We come in the next day
and run speed tests to the radios and they look ok.

Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.

Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home
connected to one of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then
that evening he tried to watch Netflix - biggest complaint from
most subs - and it would not start. He ran a speed test and got
500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs.

Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will
bring the through put down to 500K?

We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP
but need to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any
sense.

Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.

-- 
Arthur Stephens

Senior Networking Technician
Ptera Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019
509-927-7837
ptera.com 
facebook.com/PteraInc  |
twitter.com/Ptera 
 
-

"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety
information, and is intended for the person/entity to whom it was
originally addressed.
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any
views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and are not intended to represent those of the company."

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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Faisal Imtiaz]

about 20k pps. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -

> From: "Mike Lyon" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 12:03:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

> Whats the magic PPS number for the Rockets? I forget...
> On Apr 16, 2014 8:52 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote:

> > My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per second).
> 

> > Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in quantity...
> 

> > So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.
> 
> > How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?
> 

> > Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you will have to
> > describe your network a bit
> 

> > Bridged ? Routed ?
> 
> > What is doing Traffic Shaping ?
> 

> > How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.
> 

> > I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are describing..
> 

> > :)
> 

> > Regards.
> 

> > Faisal Imtiaz
> 
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> 
> > Miami, FL 33155
> 
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 

> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 

> > > From: "Art Stephens" < asteph...@ptera.com >
> > 
> 
> > > To: "WISPA General List" < wireless@wispa.org >
> > 
> 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
> > 
> 
> > > Subject: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put
> > 
> 

> > > Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of
> > > these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors.
> > 
> 

> > > What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when
> > > they
> > > call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed
> > > tests
> > > to the radios and they look ok.
> > 
> 

> > > Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.
> > 
> 

> > > Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to
> > > one
> > > of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried to
> > > watch Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not
> > > start.
> > > He ran a speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs.
> > 
> 

> > > Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the
> > > through put down to 500K?
> > 
> 

> > > We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but
> > > need
> > > to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense.
> > 
> 

> > > Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.
> > 
> 

> > > --
> > 
> 
> > > Arthur Stephens
> > 
> 
> > > Senior Networking Technician
> > 
> 
> > > Ptera Inc.
> > 
> 
> > > PO Box 135
> > 
> 
> > > 24001 E Mission Suite 50
> > 
> 
> > > Liberty Lake, WA 99019
> > 
> 
> > > 509-927-7837
> > 
> 
> > > ptera.com
> > 
> 
> > > facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
> > 
> 
> > > -
> > 
> 
> > > "This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and
> > > is
> > > intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed.
> > 
> 
> > > Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or
> > > opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are
> > > not
> > > intended to represent those of the company."
> > 
> 

> > > ___
> > 
> 
> > > Wireless mailing list
> > 
> 
> > > Wireless@wispa.org
> > 
> 
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > 
> 

> > ___
> 
> > Wireless mailing list
> 
> > Wireless@wispa.org
> 
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 

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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

would be nice to do a spin cyclea rinseand dry.
maybe i should be doing laundry...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put


  I wish radios had a metric like duty cycle. It would tell you what percent of 
the time the radio is busy, regardless of underlying causes (throughput, 
interference, etc.)




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com





--

  From: "Art Stephens" 
  To: "WISPA General List" 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:50:07 PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put


  Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of 
these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors. 


  What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when they 
call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed tests to 
the radios and they look ok.


  Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.


  Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to one 
of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried to watch 
Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not start. He ran a 
speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs. 


  Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the 
through put down to 500K?


  We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but need 
to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense. 


  Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.


  -- 

  Arthur Stephens 
  Senior Networking Technician
  Ptera Inc.
  PO Box 135
  24001 E Mission Suite 50
  Liberty Lake, WA 99019 
  509-927-7837 

  ptera.com
  facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
   
- 
  "This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is 
intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. 
  Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or 
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not 
intended to represent those of the company." 


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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Mike Lyon]

Whats the magic PPS number for the Rockets? I forget...
On Apr 16, 2014 8:52 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"  wrote:

> My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per second).
>
> Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in quantity...
>
> So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.
>
> How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?
>
>  Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you will have
> to describe your network a bit
>
> Bridged ? Routed ?
> What is doing Traffic Shaping ?
>
> How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.
>
> I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are describing..
>
> :)
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Art Stephens" 
> *To: *"WISPA General List" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
> *Subject: *[WISPA] Rocket AP through put
>
> Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of
> these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors.
>
> What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when
> they call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed
> tests to the radios and they look ok.
>
> Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.
>
> Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to
> one of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried
> to watch Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not
> start. He ran a speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19
> subs.
>
> Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the
> through put down to 500K?
>
> We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but
> need to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense.
>
> Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.
>
> --
> Arthur Stephens
> Senior Networking Technician
> Ptera Inc.
> PO Box 135
> 24001 E Mission Suite 50
> Liberty Lake, WA 99019
> 509-927-7837
> ptera.com
> facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
>
>  -
> "This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and
> is intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed.
> Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or
> opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not
> intended to represent those of the company."
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Mike Hammett]

I wish radios had a metric like duty cycle. It would tell you what percent of 
the time the radio is busy, regardless of underlying causes (throughput, 
interference, etc.) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



- Original Message -

From: "Art Stephens"  
To: "WISPA General List"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:50:07 PM 
Subject: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put 


Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of these 
in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors. 


What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when they 
call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed tests to 
the radios and they look ok. 


Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs. 


Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to one 
of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried to watch 
Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not start. He ran a 
speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs. 


Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the 
through put down to 500K? 


We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but need to 
figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense. 


Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this. 


-- 

Arthur Stephens 
Senior Networking Technician 
Ptera Inc. 
PO Box 135 
24001 E Mission Suite 50 
Liberty Lake, WA 99019 
509-927-7837 

ptera.com 
facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera 
- 
"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is 
intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. 
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or 
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not 
intended to represent those of the company." 

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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

i am interested in this as well - in canopy, there is an overload counter and 
some other things we can look at
not sure what to look at from a ubnt standpoint - although i know with 5.6 beta 
there are more snmp things
you can monitor (as in - SOME snmp readable items at all)

we have an access point with 19 on it currentlyi don't think we have any 
with more than 19

  - Original Message - 
  From: Faisal Imtiaz 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 10:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put


  My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per second).


  Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in quantity...


  So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts.

  How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ?


   Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you will have to 
describe your network a bit


  Bridged ? Routed ?  
  What is doing Traffic Shaping ?


  How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc.


  I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are describing..


  :)


  Regards.




  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232



  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 




--

From: "Art Stephens" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put



Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of 
these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors. 


What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when 
they call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed tests 
to the radios and they look ok.


Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.


Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to 
one of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried to 
watch Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not start. He 
ran a speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs. 


Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the 
through put down to 500K?


We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but need 
to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense. 


Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.


-- 

Arthur Stephens 
Senior Networking Technician
Ptera Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019 
509-927-7837 

ptera.com
facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
 
- 
"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is 
intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed. 
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or 
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not 
intended to represent those of the company." 


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Re: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Faisal Imtiaz]

My guess is that you are running out of PPS capacity (packets per second). 

Video tends to be smaller packets in size but larger number in quantity... 

So, here come a lot of if's and's or buts. 
How do the other folks (Wisp's) Manage this issue. ? 

Lots of different ways, but before you dive into that.. you will have to 
describe your network a bit 

Bridged ? Routed ? 
What is doing Traffic Shaping ? 

How many AP's/ Pop ? what is the Backhaul ? etc. 

I wish there was a simple answer for the problem you are describing.. 

:) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -

> From: "Art Stephens" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:50:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Rocket AP through put

> Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of
> these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors.

> What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when they
> call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed tests
> to the radios and they look ok.

> Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.

> Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to one
> of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried to
> watch Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not start.
> He ran a speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19 subs.

> Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the
> through put down to 500K?

> We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but need
> to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense.

> Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.

> --
> Arthur Stephens
> Senior Networking Technician
> Ptera Inc.
> PO Box 135
> 24001 E Mission Suite 50
> Liberty Lake, WA 99019
> 509-927-7837
> ptera.com
> facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
> -
> "This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is
> intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed.
> Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or
> opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not
> intended to represent those of the company."

> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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[WISPA] Rocket AP through put

[Art Stephens]

Looking for some feed back concerning Rocket APs. We have quite a few of
these in the field with UBNT Sectors and KPerformance Sectors.

What we run into is customer complaints about slow speeds at night when
they call into after hours support. We come in the next day and run speed
tests to the radios and they look ok.

Some APs have 20 subs and some as high as 50 subs.

Yesterday one of our employees ran speed tests from his home connected to
one of those APs during the day and he got 15M. Then that evening he tried
to watch Netflix - biggest complaint from most subs - and it would not
start. He ran a speed test and got 500K. The AP he is connected to has 19
subs.

Trying to figure out just how many subs streaming on an AP will bring the
through put down to 500K?

We are considering limiting how many streams can run on a given AP but need
to figure where the breaking point is if that makes any sense.

Thanks for any insight any one can shed on this.

-- 
Arthur Stephens
Senior Networking Technician
Ptera Inc.
PO Box 135
24001 E Mission Suite 50
Liberty Lake, WA 99019
509-927-7837
ptera.com
facebook.com/PteraInc | twitter.com/Ptera
 -
"This message may contain confidential and/or propriety information, and is
intended for the person/entity to whom it was originally addressed.
Any use by others is strictly prohibited. Please note that any views or
opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not
intended to represent those of the company."
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Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[ralph]

It was hundreds of dollars a month, I know that.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

Interstate access charge, maybe?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> Don't know.
> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
> 
>

> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
> an INTERstate?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  wrote:
> > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
> several
> > times. They finally removed it.
> > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
> > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
> all the
> > addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
> >
> > I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years
> ago in
> > another life.
> >
> >
>

> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> ]
> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> ]
> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> > That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
> > the paperwork ID number you had to request?
> >
> >
> > Matt Hoppes
> > Director of Information Technology
> > Indigo Wireless
> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
> <#>] <#>
> >
> > On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org

> > > wrote:
> > > From our Metro Ethernet network
> > >
> > >
> >
>

> > > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> 
> >  >]
> > > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> 
> > >]
> > > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > >
> > > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport
circuit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Matt Hoppes
> > > Director of Information Technology
> > > Indigo Wireless
> > > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570)
> 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>]
> > <#>] <#>
> > >
> > > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > > > We did this, and won.
> > > >
> > > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> > >  
> >  >>
> > > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> >  
>  >>]
> > > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > > > *To:* WISPA General List
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
> > intra-state and
> > > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect
> USF on
> > > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> > > applicable.
> > > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
> > you can
> > > > harass your sales rep into getting a change ord

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

Yes I worded that wrong, thanks for catching it :)



Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 3:09 PM, James Howard wrote:
> I think you worded that wrong, they only pay it on INTERSTATE circuits. 
> It does specifically say they can’t recover more than they pay in BUT
> who’s actually monitoring that?
> 
>  
> 
> You can’t really blame them for wanting to recover it, if you look at
> the rate set by the FCC, it’s been above 15% for several years now. 
> That’s a pretty major hit.  If they are doing it correctly though, they
> should NOT be paying it for revenue that is generated from us so they
> should have less to recover. 
> 
>  
> 
> On the other hand, most of them probably get back as much as they
> contribute to the USF anyway though.
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:04 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
>  
> 
> James,
> That's kind of how I was reading that too. Yes, the carrier only pays
> it on intrastate circuits, but they can charge it anywhere --- provided
> they don't charge more than they pay..
> 
> Which brings up another question. with enough customer base the
> charges should go down for everyone but I can't recall the last time
> I saw that happen.
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
> 
> On 4/16/14, 3:01 PM, James Howard wrote:
>> From the FCC website:
>>
>>
>>
>> The Universal Service Fund is paid for by contributions
>>
> 
> 
> from
>> telecommunications carriers, including wireline and wireless companies,
>> and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers,
>> including cable companies that provide voice service, based on an
>> assessment on their *interstate* and international end-user revenues.
>>
>>
>>
>> * Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their
>> telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to
>> recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing
>> them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed
>> on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about
>> *whether and how to assess charges to recover* its Universal Service
>> costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the
>> consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal
>> Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that
>> exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any
>> fees from a Lifeline program participant.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> IANAL but this doesn’t seem to restrict them from “recovering” these
>> fees from ANY customer they want to recover them from. Just because we
>> aren’t using an INTERSTATE circuit doesn’t mean that they can’t chose to
>> recover some of their USF fees from us.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have been successful in getting them removed from all of our
>> intrastate circuits.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:51 PM
>> *To:* WISPA General List
>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>
>>
>>
>> Interstate access charge, maybe?
>>
>>
>> Matt Hoppes
>> Director of Information Technology
>> Indigo Wireless
>> +1 (570) 723-7312
>>
>> On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org 
>   wrote:
>>> Don't know.
>>> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
>>>
>>> 
>>> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
>>> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
>>> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>>
>>> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
>>> an INTERstate?
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt Hoppes
>>> Director of Information Technology
>>> Indigo Wireless
>>> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>>>
>>> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org 
>  
>>>  
>   wrote:
>>> > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
>>> several
>>> > times. They finally removed it.
>>> > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
>>> > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
>>> all the
>>> > addr

[WISPA] Giant Florida Swamp Woodpecker Damage

[Scott Carullo]

The giant FL Swamp Woodpecker, know locally as a Swamp-pecker, got a hold 
of this power bridge
  
 http://cdn.141networks.com/images/PBM5-Blown-Up.jpg
  
 Now normally that would bother me, but since the UBNT radios don't handle 
MPLS packets normally I would have had to replace this any way with another 
vendor radio that doesn't try to QOS everything without permission.
 For more info:
 
http://community.ubnt.com/t5/airMax-General-Discussion/Airmax-QOS-Deprioritz
ing-traffic-when-using-MPLS-VPLS/m-p/708575#M38896
  
 Seriously, UBNT needs to address / acknowledge / fix this.  And that was a 
lightning bolt yesterday took out the radio.
  
 Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
855-FLSPEED x102


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Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Fred Goldstein]

On 4/16/2014 2:32 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
> an INTERstate?

Jurisdiction.  The Federal USF is, by law, only applicable to interstate 
services.

USF was created in 1996.  Before then, rural telcos got all of their 
subsidies from long-distance calling.  If you made a 25c/minute call 
from New York to Grouse Creek, New York Tel might get a few cents for 
its end, while Beehive got about 40 cents of the 25.  The long distance 
carrier kept the rest.  Which, in the case of calls to Grouse Creek, was 
negative.  But regulations required them to deliver the calls and charge 
the same price to retail subscribers regardless of whether it was going 
to Salt Lake City at say 4c/min or Grouse Creek at ten times as much.

So in order to fix that mess, USF created a tax called a fee (because 
Americans hate taxes, but are assumed to be easy to fool) on all 
interstate telecom.  So the access charges could be lowered, and long 
distance rates could come down.

But jurisdictional rules being what they are, calls within a state were 
only subject to state regulation.  So states could keep high access 
charges (as many did, a practice finally banned as of 2013) and/or 
create a state USF of their own, if they wanted to tax intrastate 
telecom.  And some did.

>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
>
> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
>> There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several
>> times. They finally removed it.
>> Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
>> I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the
>> addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>>   
>> I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in
>> another life.
>>
>>  
>>  *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
>>  *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
>>  *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
>>  *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>
>>  That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
>>  the paperwork ID number you had to request?
>>
>>
>>  Matt Hoppes
>>  Director of Information Technology
>>  Indigo Wireless
>>  +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>>
>>  On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>>   wrote:
>>  > From our Metro Ethernet network
>>  >
>>  >
>>  
>>  > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
>>  ]
>>  > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
>>  ]
>>  > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
>>  > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>  >
>>  > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Matt Hoppes
>>  > Director of Information Technology
>>  > Indigo Wireless
>>  > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
>>  <#>] <#>
>>  >
>>  > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
>>  > > We did this, and won.
>>  > >
>>  > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>  
>>  > >  >
>>  > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>  
>>  >]
>>  > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
>>  > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
>>  > > *To:* WISPA General List
>>  > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
>>  intra-state and
>>  > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
>>  > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
>>  > applicable.
>>  > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
>>  you can
>>  > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
>>  > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
>>  > stink
>>  > > with your sales rep.
>>  > >
>>  > > -Kristian
>>  > >
>>  > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
>>  > > to carry Internet traffic.
>>  > >
>>  > > Sent from my iPad
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > On Apr 15

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

James,
That's kind of how I was reading that too.  Yes, the carrier only pays
it on intrastate circuits, but they can charge it anywhere --- provided
they don't charge more than they pay..

Which brings up another question. with enough customer base the
charges should go down for everyone but I can't recall the last time
I saw that happen.


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 3:01 PM, James Howard wrote:
> From the FCC website:
> 
>  
> 
>  The Universal Service Fund is paid for by contributions
> 
>  from
> telecommunications carriers, including wireline and wireless companies,
> and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers,
> including cable companies that provide voice service, based on an
> assessment on their *interstate* and international end-user revenues.
> 
>  
> 
>   * Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their
> telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to
> recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing
> them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed
> on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about
> *whether and how to assess charges to recover* its Universal Service
> costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the
> consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal
> Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that
> exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any
> fees from a Lifeline program participant.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> IANAL but this doesn’t seem to restrict them from “recovering” these
> fees from ANY customer they want to recover them from.  Just because we
> aren’t using an INTERSTATE circuit doesn’t mean that they can’t chose to
> recover some of their USF fees from us. 
> 
>  
> 
> We have been successful in getting them removed from all of our
> intrastate circuits.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:51 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
>  
> 
> Interstate access charge, maybe?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
> 
> On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org  wrote:
>> Don't know.
>> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
>>
>> 
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
>> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
>> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>
>> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
>> an INTERstate?
>>
>>
>> Matt Hoppes
>> Director of Information Technology
>> Indigo Wireless
>> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>>
>> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org 
>>   wrote:
>> > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
>> several
>> > times. They finally removed it.
>> > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
>> > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
>> all the
>> > addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>> >
>> > I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years
>> ago in
>> > another life.
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
>> 
> ]
>> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
>>  ]
>> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
>> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>> >
>> > That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
>> > the paperwork ID number you had to request?
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt Hoppes
>> > Director of Information Technology
>> > Indigo Wireless
>> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
>> <#>] <#>
>> >
>> > On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  
> 
>> > >
>  wrote:
>> > > From our Metro Ethernet network
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
>>  

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Robert Andrews]

Be as confusing as possible and that way get the least push back on a 
made up charge...
After all the fake charges on cell invoices, dsl invoices, and cable 
invoices, what would make you think that this was any different? Just 
because you are in the biz and might know better?

I am sure that there are thousands of companies that just go on paying 
these extra fees because they look legit and there is something that 
might be related in the regs...


On 04/16/2014 11:51 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Interstate access charge, maybe?
>
>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
>
> On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
>> Don't know.
>> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
>>
>>  
>>  *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
>>  *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
>>  *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
>>  *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>
>>  OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
>>  an INTERstate?
>>
>>
>>  Matt Hoppes
>>  Director of Information Technology
>>  Indigo Wireless
>>  +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>>
>>  On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>>   wrote:
>>  > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
>>  several
>>  > times. They finally removed it.
>>  > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
>>  > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
>>  all the
>>  > addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>>  >
>>  > I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years
>>  ago in
>>  > another life.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  
>>  > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
>>  ]
>>  > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
>>  ]
>>  > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
>>  > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>  >
>>  > That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
>>  > the paperwork ID number you had to request?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Matt Hoppes
>>  > Director of Information Technology
>>  > Indigo Wireless
>>  > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
>>  <#>] <#>
>>  >
>>  > On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org 
>>  > > wrote:
>>  > > From our Metro Ethernet network
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  
>>  > > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
>>  
>>  > >  >]
>>  > > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
>>  
>>  > >]
>>  > > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
>>  > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>  > >
>>  > > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > Matt Hoppes
>>  > > Director of Information Technology
>>  > > Indigo Wireless
>>  > > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570)
>>  723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>]
>>  > <#>] <#>
>>  > >
>>  > > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
>>  > > > We did this, and won.
>>  > > >
>>  > > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
>>  > > >
>>  > > >
>>  > > >
>>  > > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>  
>>  > >  >
>>  > > >  
>>  > >  >>
>>  > > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>  
>>  > >  >
>>  > >  
>>  >  >>]
>>  > > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
>>  > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
>>  > > > *To:* WISPA General List
>>  > > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>>  > > >

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

Interstate access charge, maybe?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> Don't know.
> The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
> 
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
> an INTERstate?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  wrote:
> > There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it
> several
> > times. They finally removed it.
> > Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
> > I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had
> all the
> > addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
> >
> > I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years
> ago in
> > another life.
> >
> >
> 
> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> ]
> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> ]
> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> > That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
> > the paperwork ID number you had to request?
> >
> >
> > Matt Hoppes
> > Director of Information Technology
> > Indigo Wireless
> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
> <#>] <#>
> >
> > On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org 
> > > wrote:
> > > From our Metro Ethernet network
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> 
> >  >]
> > > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> 
> > >]
> > > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > >
> > > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Matt Hoppes
> > > Director of Information Technology
> > > Indigo Wireless
> > > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570)
> 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>]
> > <#>] <#>
> > >
> > > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > > > We did this, and won.
> > > >
> > > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> > >  
> >  >>
> > > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> >  
>  >>]
> > > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > > > *To:* WISPA General List
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
> > intra-state and
> > > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect
> USF on
> > > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> > > applicable.
> > > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
> > you can
> > > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> > > stink
> > > > with your sales rep.
> > > >
> > > > -Kristian
> > > >
> > > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[ralphlists]

Don't know.  
The word "interstate" was in the description of the charge.
  _  

  From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
an INTERstate?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several
> times. They finally removed it.
> Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
> I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the
> addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
> 
> I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in
> another life.
> 
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
> the paperwork ID number you had to request?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  wrote:
> > From our Metro Ethernet network
> >
> >
> 
> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> ]
> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> ]
> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> >
> >
> > Matt Hoppes
> > Director of Information Technology
> > Indigo Wireless
> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
> <#>] <#>
> >
> > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > > We did this, and won.
> > >
> > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >]
> > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > > *To:* WISPA General List
> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
> intra-state and
> > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> > applicable.
> > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
> you can
> > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> > stink
> > > with your sales rep.
> > >
> > > -Kristian
> > >
> > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> > > to carry Internet traffic.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> > mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> >
> > > 
> >   > >
> > > hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> > > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> > > carrying internet access.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > > Miami, FL 33155
> > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call:
> (305)663-5518] <#>] <#> Option 2 or Email:
> > > supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> >
> >    >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  
> >  >
> > >  
> > 

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[James Howard]

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/universal-service

Do a search on "interstate".  USF does not apply to INTRASTATE communications.


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
an INTERstate?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several
> times. They finally removed it.
> Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
> I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the
> addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>
> I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in
> another life.
>
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
>
> That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
> the paperwork ID number you had to request?
>
>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
>
> On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  wrote:
> > From our Metro Ethernet network
> >
> >
> 
> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> ]
> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> ]
> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> >
> >
> > Matt Hoppes
> > Director of Information Technology
> > Indigo Wireless
> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
> <#>] <#>
> >
> > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > > We did this, and won.
> > >
> > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
>  >]
> > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > > *To:* WISPA General List
> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
> intra-state and
> > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> > applicable.
> > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
> you can
> > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> > stink
> > > with your sales rep.
> > >
> > > -Kristian
> > >
> > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> > > to carry Internet traffic.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> > mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> 
> > 
>  >
> > >  > > 
> >  
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> > > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> > > carrying internet access.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > > Miami, FL 33155
> > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call:
> (305)663-5518] <#>] <#> Option 2 or Email:
> > > supp...@

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on
an INTERstate?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several
> times. They finally removed it.
> Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.
> I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the
> addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.
>  
> I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in
> another life.
> 
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
> the paperwork ID number you had to request?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org
>  wrote:
> > From our Metro Ethernet network
> >
> >
> 
> > *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com
> ]
> > *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org
> ]
> > *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> > So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> >
> >
> > Matt Hoppes
> > Director of Information Technology
> > Indigo Wireless
> > +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312]
> <#>] <#>
> >
> > On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > > We did this, and won.
> > >
> > > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >  >
> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> >]
> > > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > > *To:* WISPA General List
> > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says
> intra-state and
> > > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> > > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> > applicable.
> > > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state),
> you can
> > > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> > stink
> > > with your sales rep.
> > >
> > > -Kristian
> > >
> > > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> > > to carry Internet traffic.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> > mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> >
> > > 
> >   > >
> > > hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> > > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> > > carrying internet access.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > > Miami, FL 33155
> > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call:
> (305)663-5518] <#>] <#> Option 2 or Email:
> > > supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> >
> >    >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[ralphlists]

There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. 
They finally removed it.  
Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess.  
I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the 
addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate.  
   
I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in 
another life.
  _  

  From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference
the paperwork ID number you had to request?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> From our Metro Ethernet network
> 
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > We did this, and won.
> >
> > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ]
> > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > *To:* WISPA General List
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> >
> >
> > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and
> > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> applicable.
> > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can
> > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> stink
> > with your sales rep.
> >
> > -Kristian
> >
> > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >
> > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> > to carry Internet traffic.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> >  >> wrote:
> >
> > hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> >
> >
> >
> > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> > carrying internet access.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> >
> >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > Miami, FL 33155
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> >
> >
> >
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] <#> Option 2 or Email:
> > supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  
> >  >>
> > *To: *"WISPA General List"  
> > >>
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is
> > a transport and not an internet circuit.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to
> > Internet access.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"
> > mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>
> >  >> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding
> > current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for
> > WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill
> > from my new upstream fiber provider.
> >
> > (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to
> > also offer metro ethernet IP)
> >
> > Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> > Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
> > Transport data link.
> >
> > So I consider this a wholesale component or
> > infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any
> > Taxes or USF.
> >
> > I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a
> > CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to
> > collect or pay into USF, CAF, or Sta

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[ralphlists]

>From our Metro Ethernet network
  _  

  From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> We did this, and won.
> 
> Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> 
> 
> 
> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> 
> 
> The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and
> not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. 
> If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can
> harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink
> with your sales rep.
> 
> -Kristian
> 
> On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> 
> Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> to carry Internet traffic. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz  > wrote:
> 
> hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> 
> 
> 
> Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> carrying internet access.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> 
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> 
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  >
> *To: *"WISPA General List"  >
> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is
> a transport and not an internet circuit. 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to
> Internet access. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"
>  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> 
> 
> I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding
> current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for
> WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill
> from my new upstream fiber provider.
> 
> (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to
> also offer metro ethernet IP)
> 
> Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
> Transport data link.
> 
> So I consider this a wholesale component or
> infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
> 
> 
> 
> In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any
> Taxes or USF. 
> 
> I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a
> CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to
> collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And
> further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay
> and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to
> provide legal documentation to support my claim to my
> upstream.
> 
> 
> 
> THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me
> 
> The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber
> cost.
> 
> The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost.
> 
> The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of
> monthly fiber cost.
> 
> 
> 
> First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can
> not be taxed by the State.
> 
> Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the
> past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%.
> 
> 
> 
> Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
> Transport data link.
> 
> So I consider this a wholesale component or
> infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
> 
> 
> 
> So questions are
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Am I exempt as a WISP.
> 
> 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to
> my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax
> resell certificate)
> 
> 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into
> USF) and if so, what is the current % rate?
> 
> 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves
> versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've
> obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC).
> 
> 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 
> 
> 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies
> this clearly?
> 
> 
> 
> Figured Id ask, before I go searching t

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

That's what I meant... interesting.  Good to know!  Can you reference
the paperwork ID number you had to request?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
> From our Metro Ethernet network
> 
> 
> *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com]
> *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org]
> *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
> So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?
> 
> 
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] <#>
> 
> On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> > We did this, and won.
> >
> > Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> 
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ]
> > *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> > *To:* WISPA General List
> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> >
> >
> > The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and
> > not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on
> > intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as
> applicable.
> > If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can
> > harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's
> > intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate
> stink
> > with your sales rep.
> >
> > -Kristian
> >
> > On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >
> > Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> > to carry Internet traffic.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
> mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> >  >> wrote:
> >
> > hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> >
> >
> >
> > Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> > apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> > carrying internet access.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> >
> >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > Miami, FL 33155
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> >
> >
> >
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] <#> Option 2 or Email:
> > supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  
> >  >>
> > *To: *"WISPA General List"  
> > >>
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is
> > a transport and not an internet circuit.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to
> > Internet access.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >
> > On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"
> > mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>
> >  >> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding
> > current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for
> > WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill
> > from my new upstream fiber provider.
> >
> > (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to
> > also offer metro ethernet IP)
> >
> > Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> > Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
> > Transport data link.
> >
> > So I consider this a wholesale component or
> > infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any
> > Taxes or USF.
> >
> > I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a
> > CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to
> > collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And
> > furth

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Matt Hoppes]

So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit?


Matt Hoppes
Director of Information Technology
Indigo Wireless
+1 (570) 723-7312

On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote:
> We did this, and won.
> 
> Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 
>  
> 
> The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and
> not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction.  They don't collect USF on
> intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. 
> If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can
> harass your sales rep into getting a change order done.  If it's
> intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink
> with your sales rep.
> 
> -Kristian
> 
> On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> 
> Oh really?  Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
> to carry Internet traffic. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz  > wrote:
> 
> hmmm.. not quite accurate...
> 
>  
> 
> Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to
> apply to internet access as well as communication circuits
> carrying internet access.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards.
> 
>  
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
>  
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes"  >
> *To: *"WISPA General List"  >
> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for  WISPs
> 
>  
> 
> I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is
> a transport and not an internet circuit. 
> 
>  
> 
> As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to
> Internet access. 
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"
>  > wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Guys,
> 
>  
> 
> I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding
> current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for
> WISPs.  I was surprised when I recieved my first bill
> from my new upstream fiber provider.
> 
> (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to
> also offer metro ethernet IP)
> 
> Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
> Transport data link.
> 
> So I consider this a wholesale component or
> infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit.
> 
>  
> 
> In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any
> Taxes or USF.  
> 
> I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a
> CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to
> collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And
> further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay
> and/or collect such fees from me.  If so, I need to
> provide legal documentation to support my claim to my
> upstream.
> 
>  
> 
> THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me
> 
> The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber
> cost.
> 
> The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost.
> 
> The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of
> monthly fiber cost.
> 
>  
> 
> First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can
> not be taxed by the State.
> 
> Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the
> past, when USF was applicable it was  always only around 6%.
> 
>  
> 
> Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor
> Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber
>   

Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[ralph]

We did this, and won.

Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kristian Hoffmann
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

 

The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not
inter-state for the tax jurisdiction.  They don't collect USF on intra-state
circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable.  If your
contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your
sales rep into getting a change order done.  If it's intra-state and they
still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep.

-Kristian

On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Oh really?  Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry
Internet traffic. 

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote:

hmmm.. not quite accurate...

 

Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to
internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access.

 

Regards.

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
  

 


  _  


From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com> >
To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for  WISPs

 

I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and
not an internet circuit. 

 

As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. 

 

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi" mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net> > wrote:

 

Guys,

 

I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of
CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs.  I was surprised when I recieved my
first bill from my new upstream fiber provider.

(they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro
ethernet IP) 

Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am
just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link.

So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an
End User Internet circuit. 

 

In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF.  

I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing
Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or
State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay
and/or collect such fees from me.  If so, I need to provide legal
documentation to support my claim to my upstream.

 

THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me

The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost.

The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost.

The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost.

 

First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the
State.

Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was
applicable it was  always only around 6%.

 

Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am
just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link.

So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an
End User Internet circuit. 

 

So questions are

 

1) Am I exempt as a WISP.

2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to
document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate)

3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so,
what is the current % rate?

4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I
classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im
not a CLEC).

5) Does it matter how I use the circuit?  

6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly?

 

Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code.

 

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
301-515-7774

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org  
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless


___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org  
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 

___
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___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org  
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 

___

Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Let's say this differently. 

The USF (TAX) Obligation is on the Service Provider (Telco etc), and it is a 
Tax on the Telco, not the Telco's customers. 
The Telco, can choose to recover this from it's customers or NOT AT ALL. 
However, the rules that have to be followed, in regards to recovery are .. 
Apply evenly across the customer base 
Cannot Recover more than Telco's USF Obligation .. 
Exemption from this are narrowly defined (Gov entities, and some Non Profit, i 
am going by memory) 
AND any Entity that is under obligation to contribute to USF directly (not 
deminimus) 

previously most telco's were a bit loose in letting re-sellers have their 
exemptions, but over the last few year they have become more stringent... they 
now check your 499 to make sure you are not deminimus. 

--- 
BTW, the big rub comes in, when one's status changes from de-minimus to not 
being de-minimus.. since FCC calculates one's USF contribution obligation 
in arrears, one has the pleasure of paying all the recovery fees to it's 
vendors, and the whole amount to FCC as well... 

If you go to them and say, hey you are taxing me twice/ you are making me pay 
this twice Their answer, we are not... we are only asking you to pay the 
obligation to us (the tax) once, now... what you have paid to your vendors is a 
'fee', and we have nothing to do with that. you go duke that one out with 
your vendors 

Vendor's response. It's the Federal Law, everyone pays... if you fill out 
your exemption docs, we will not collect the recovery fee from you moving 
forward.. but the past is the past... 

And, if you go in the other direction from being not de-minimus to being 
de-minimusyou get screwed again.. because FCC calculates one's future USF 
obligations based on previous years contribution... so you have to pay.and 
when you file your numbers... you get to have a nice conversation with FCC 
They say, we don't understand how did your actual numbers drop. after you 
get past it... they say... OK... moving forward i.e. next year the numbers will 
change... if you ask, hey what about this year ?.. .Answer is .. 
Sorry, we don't issue refunds, and we have no way to make 'corrections' to our 
billing system (which no one there understands)... 

So you are SOL again... 

I think we should replace the the word CF (ClusterF***) with the acronym USF ! 
-- 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -

> From: "Tom DeReggi" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:21:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs

> Regarding USF
> " wholesaler must have evidence that the reseller customer both “(1)
> [incorporates] the purchased telecommunications services into its own
> offerings, and (2) can reasonably be expected to contribute to support
> universal service based on revenues from those offerings."
> In the past it was possible to be exempt from your upstream from charging
> you, by only declaring that you were a reseller, and all that you had to do
> to get exempted was to show that you utilized the telecommunications
> services in your own retail offerings. The advantage to USF, would have been
> the ISP would likely sell the retail service for more money than the
> wholesale price and therefore collect higher USF funds. However, the loop
> whole for the ISP was that once they were exempt with their upstream, there
> was not much control to verify how much USF the downstream ISP would collect
> or be required to collect. For example, if the reseller ISP only sold
> information services "Internet Access", the ISP would never collect or pay
> USF. So, the above quoted clause did away with that loophole, by adding
> section (2), now making it a requirement that the wholesaler reasonably
> expect the reseller to pay into the USF based on revenues from those
> offerings. Meaning Wholesalers could make downstream ISPs prove they are
> paying into USF before allowing exemption.
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

> > - Original Message -
> 
> > From: Faisal Imtiaz
> 
> > To: WISPA General List
> 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:46 PM
> 
> > Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
> 

> > They all do. (i.e. try to screw the ISP/NSP/WISP)
> 

> > Chase down the person in-charge of their Tax Dept, and ask them for ITNA
> > Tax
> > Exemption Form
> 

> > :)
> 

> > Faisal Imtiaz
> 
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> 
> > Miami, FL 33155
> 
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 

> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 

> > - Original Message -
> 

> > > From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> > 
> 
> > > To: "WISPA General Li