Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today

[AJ]

Current "stable" setup is Airmax on, 10 Mhz channel, freq 2417 (channel 2).

Noise floor varies -96 to -83 dBm
Signal RX from station -59 to -67
TX/RX 13 Mbps
CCQ 100%

Speedtest shows 2.88 Mbps RX, 1.94 Mbps TX

Airmax turned off

Noise floor varies -96 to -85 dBm
Signal RX from station -60
ACK 51
TX/RX 13 MBps
CCQ 100%

Speedtest shows 2.66 Mbps RX, 3.26 Mbps TX

Changed both stations to 1 mile/Auto ACK and now sitting stable at about 3.0
Mbps TX/RX after half dozen tests...



On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

> Hey AJ.
>
> I am curious.
>
> Turn on Airmax.
> Reduce Channel size to 10mhz  or 5mhz
>
> And see if things improve...
>
> Faisal.
>
> On 4/14/2010 2:09 PM, AJ wrote:
> > Here is the upper portion of the band running Airview - it's roughly the
> > same across the entire 2.3-2.7 band that the NS2M can scan, of course
> > significantly higher centered on US channels 6 and 11... hopefully the
> PDF
> > flows through correctly...
> >
> > View from the NS2M at the power supply cabinet (next to the subdivision)
> > Site Survey
> > Scanned Frequencies:
> > 2.412GHz 2.417GHz 2.422GHz 2.427GHz 2.432GHz 2.437GHz 2.442GHz 2.447GHz
> > 2.452GHz 2.457GHz 2.462GHz
> >
> >
> > Scanning, please wait...
> >MAC Address SSID Device Name Encryption Signal / Noise, dBm Frequency,
> GHz
> > Channel
> >00:21:29:66:C6:D7 MadaWPA2 -63 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:23:EE:28:9B:D1 OurMaddieWPA -71 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:24:7B:04:FA:66 myqwest6245WPA -67 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:19:E4:4C:F9:49 HelloMotoWPA -56 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:18:84:81:A2:79 ASGARDWPA2 -76 / -84 2.427 4
> >00:19:7D:05:8A:28 My PS3WPA -75 / -85 2.437 6
> >00:21:D7:90:80:10 WPA2 -59 / -85 2.437 6
> >00:1C:FB:FD:CB:D0 qwestJONESWPA -74 / -84 2.447 8
> >00:12:17:62:58:69 HelloMoto2GWPA -68 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:15:A3:E5:15:70 Blacklab34WPA -58 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:1F:CA:26:F6:C6 WPA2 -20 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:21:D7:90:7C:E0 WPA2 -51 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:24:7B:14:D6:56 myqwest5589WPA -70 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:00:00:00:00:00 WEP -71 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:14:A5:30:06:5C MotorolaNONE -70 / -82 2.412 1
> >00:22:75:46:BB:D4 Belkin_N_Wireless_46bbd4NONE -72 / -85 2.432 5
> >00:21:29:95:3A:67 JohnNONE -81 / -85 2.437 6
> >00:21:00:5C:2D:35 HomeWEP -80 / -85 2.437 6
> >00:0C:41:96:68:AE linksysWEP -72 / -85 2.437 6
> >00:24:B2:76:6A:10 tmobile hotspotWEP -73 / -84 2.447 8
> >00:15:05:36:DA:8B ACTIONTECWEP -70 / -84 2.452 9
> >00:24:7B:35:A1:54 myqwest4705WEP -63 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:00:00:00:00:00 WEP -62 / -85 2.462 11
> >00:14:6C:94:B6:00 BarbaraNONE -71 / -85 2.462 11
> >
> >
> > Scan from the remote employee's house facing the 2 new subdivisions:
> > Site Survey
> > Scanned Frequencies:
> > 2.412GHz 2.417GHz 2.422GHz 2.427GHz 2.432GHz 2.437GHz 2.442GHz 2.447GHz
> > 2.452GHz 2.457GHz 2.462GHz
> >
> >
> > Scanning, please wait...
> >MAC Address SSID Device Name Encryption Signal / Noise, dBm Frequency,
> GHz
> > Channel
> >00:1B:5B:99:09:A1 OliverWPA -71 / -83 2.412 1
> >00:1E:E5:FA:89:97 Less work for meWPA2 -75 / -83 2.412 1
> >00:17:3F:57:53:B0 RevelationWPA -60 / -83 2.437 6
> >00:22:3F:65:D9:6A MotoxChrisWPA -60 / -83 2.437 6
> >00:21:D7:90:80:10 WPA2 -61 / -83 2.437 6
> >00:22:3F:A6:E7:85 NETGEARWPA -65 / -81 2.417 2
> >00:15:6D:FA:63:85 UBNT-AP  UBNT-AP  WPA2 -62 / -85 2.452 9
> >00:23:EE:28:9B:D1 OurMaddieWPA -78 / -83 2.412 1
> >00:18:F8:B8:AB:86 19darne57WEP -77 / -83 2.437 6
> >00:16:B6:45:69:4D RalphsWEP -71 / -83 2.437 6
> >00:13:10:69:BE:A8 linksysNONE -76 / -85 2.422 3
> >00:21:29:95:3A:67 JohnNONE -72 / -83 2.437 6
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Gino Villarini
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If you are using the latest fw, use the airview spectrum analyzer to see
> >> your local noise
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> 787.273.4143
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >>   Behalf Of AJ
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:24 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti

Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today

[AJ]

LOL...

We're not exactly a WISP... Just looking for a cheaper solution than running
8000' of fiber to serve a single customer (free customer at that lol)...

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

> "...And swapping out $200 worth of gear to play on another band is
> frustrating..."
>
> But isn't this what the WISP's live for !
>
> :)
>
>
> Comes with the territory. next time if you feel better about
> swapping out $2000 worth of equipment, call me... I will sell you the
> NS2M for $1000 each...
>
> LOL !!
>
> Faisal.
>
> On 4/14/2010 1:24 PM, AJ wrote:
> > I'm on the latest beta firmware...
> >
> > And swapping out $200 worth of gear to play on another band is
> > frustrating...
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Faisal Imtiaz >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Two suggestions...  Upgrade to the beta firmware and see if it helps
> >>
> >> other... consider doing NS5M, if 2.4 is crowded...
> >>
> >> Faisal.
> >>
> >> On 4/14/2010 1:08 PM, AJ wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wish I could get speeds like that :)
> >>>
> >>> Have a pair of NS2Ms set up right on on a P2P link to bridge between a
> >>> DOCSIS modem in a power supply cabinet to an employee that lives 3/4 mi
> >>>
> >> away
> >>
> >>> LoS and can barely keep it up to 13 meg up/down... Running the latest
> >>> Beta... Doesn't help the noise floor bounces around -85 to -80 all day
> >>>
> >> long
> >>
> >>> (I can see 26 different consumer routers from both sides of the link)
> >>>
> >> from
> >>
> >>> the nearby subdivision...
> >>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Joe Miller >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Holy crapwhere do I get one of those. That is one hell of a link
> you
> >>>> have there.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Miller
> >>>> DSLbyAir, LLC
> >>>> 228-831-8881
> >>>> www.dslbyair.com
> >>>> - Original Message -
> >>>> From: "Greg Ihnen"
> >>>> To: "WISPA General List"
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:59 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Do you mean like this? Notice the rssi on the lower pic. These are
> two
> >>>> NS5Ms
> >>>> setup as a backhaul. I was assuming the rssi is being wrongly reported
> >>>> since
> >>>> the TX/RX is 162/162. If the rssi was for real wouldn't one chain be
> >>>> reporting a very low connection speed, right? I'm getting 162Mbps on
> >>>>
> >> both
> >>
> >>>> directions.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is one end of backhaul, this NS5M running station wds: rssi
> -51/-56
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is the other NS5M running ap wds: rssi -51/-94
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ...not using MIMO mode ... ? what antenna are you using ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Using the Rocket M5 without the Ubiquiti Antenna's is like driving a
> >>>>> sports car with all flat tires :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is a good documentation on the UBNT forum on how to verify the
> >>>>> bad/defective units
> >>>>> Testing them , have two units sync/link to each other, reduce the
> >>>>>
> >> power,
> >>
> >>>>> little bit at a time.. you will see a 6 to 9db difference on the two
> >>>>> chains (Hpol/Vp

Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today

[AJ]

I'm on the latest beta firmware...

And swapping out $200 worth of gear to play on another band is
frustrating...

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

> Two suggestions...  Upgrade to the beta firmware and see if it helps
>
> other... consider doing NS5M, if 2.4 is crowded...
>
> Faisal.
>
> On 4/14/2010 1:08 PM, AJ wrote:
> > Wish I could get speeds like that :)
> >
> > Have a pair of NS2Ms set up right on on a P2P link to bridge between a
> > DOCSIS modem in a power supply cabinet to an employee that lives 3/4 mi
> away
> > LoS and can barely keep it up to 13 meg up/down... Running the latest
> > Beta... Doesn't help the noise floor bounces around -85 to -80 all day
> long
> > (I can see 26 different consumer routers from both sides of the link)
> from
> > the nearby subdivision...
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Joe Miller >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Holy crapwhere do I get one of those. That is one hell of a link you
> >> have there.
> >>
> >> Joe Miller
> >> DSLbyAir, LLC
> >> 228-831-8881
> >> www.dslbyair.com
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Greg Ihnen"
> >> To: "WISPA General List"
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today
> >>
> >>
> >>   Do you mean like this? Notice the rssi on the lower pic. These are two
> >> NS5Ms
> >> setup as a backhaul. I was assuming the rssi is being wrongly reported
> >> since
> >> the TX/RX is 162/162. If the rssi was for real wouldn't one chain be
> >> reporting a very low connection speed, right? I'm getting 162Mbps on
> both
> >> directions.
> >>
> >> This is one end of backhaul, this NS5M running station wds: rssi -51/-56
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> This is the other NS5M running ap wds: rssi -51/-94
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> ...not using MIMO mode ... ? what antenna are you using ?
> >>>
> >>> Using the Rocket M5 without the Ubiquiti Antenna's is like driving a
> >>> sports car with all flat tires :)
> >>>
> >>> There is a good documentation on the UBNT forum on how to verify the
> >>> bad/defective units
> >>> Testing them , have two units sync/link to each other, reduce the
> power,
> >>> little bit at a time.. you will see a 6 to 9db difference on the two
> >>> chains (Hpol/Vpol)... normal units will show either the same signal
> >>> level or off by a couple of db's..
> >>>
> >>> Faisal.
> >>>
> >>> On 4/14/2010 11:34 AM, RickG wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Upgraded to version 5.1.2 prior to installation. Still poor
> >>>> performance. Not using Mimo mode. Using as an AP on a repeater. Having
> >>>> no luck connecting to it with another M unit as CPE. Think its a bad
> >>>> radio(s)?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Michael Baird
> >>>>
> >>   wrote:
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bad firmware and poor compatibility with legacy protocols. Make sure
> >>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>> upgrade them to the absolute latest beta available on the forums.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Michael Baird
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I've been using regular Bullets and NS2's which have been working
> >>>>>> great. So, I thought I'd give the "M" units a try. So far, nothing
> but
> >>>>>> poor signal, dropped packets,& low throughput. Replacing them
> with
> >>>>>> regular units fix the issue. What gives?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Forbes Mercy
> >>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
>

Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today

[AJ]

Wish I could get speeds like that :)

Have a pair of NS2Ms set up right on on a P2P link to bridge between a
DOCSIS modem in a power supply cabinet to an employee that lives 3/4 mi away
LoS and can barely keep it up to 13 meg up/down... Running the latest
Beta... Doesn't help the noise floor bounces around -85 to -80 all day long
(I can see 26 different consumer routers from both sides of the link) from
the nearby subdivision...
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Joe Miller wrote:

> Holy crapwhere do I get one of those. That is one hell of a link you
> have there.
>
> Joe Miller
> DSLbyAir, LLC
> 228-831-8881
> www.dslbyair.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Greg Ihnen" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT "M" Was: Ubiquiti made no points today
>
>
>  Do you mean like this? Notice the rssi on the lower pic. These are two
> NS5Ms
> setup as a backhaul. I was assuming the rssi is being wrongly reported
> since
> the TX/RX is 162/162. If the rssi was for real wouldn't one chain be
> reporting a very low connection speed, right? I'm getting 162Mbps on both
> directions.
>
> This is one end of backhaul, this NS5M running station wds: rssi -51/-56
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> >
> >
> > This is the other NS5M running ap wds: rssi -51/-94
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 14, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>
> > ...not using MIMO mode ... ? what antenna are you using ?
> >
> > Using the Rocket M5 without the Ubiquiti Antenna's is like driving a
> > sports car with all flat tires :)
> >
> > There is a good documentation on the UBNT forum on how to verify the
> > bad/defective units
> > Testing them , have two units sync/link to each other, reduce the power,
> > little bit at a time.. you will see a 6 to 9db difference on the two
> > chains (Hpol/Vpol)... normal units will show either the same signal
> > level or off by a couple of db's..
> >
> > Faisal.
> >
> > On 4/14/2010 11:34 AM, RickG wrote:
> >> Upgraded to version 5.1.2 prior to installation. Still poor
> >> performance. Not using Mimo mode. Using as an AP on a repeater. Having
> >> no luck connecting to it with another M unit as CPE. Think its a bad
> >> radio(s)?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Michael Baird
>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bad firmware and poor compatibility with legacy protocols. Make sure
> you
> >>> upgrade them to the absolute latest beta available on the forums.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Michael Baird
> >>>
>  I've been using regular Bullets and NS2's which have been working
>  great. So, I thought I'd give the "M" units a try. So far, nothing but
>  poor signal, dropped packets,&low throughput. Replacing them with
>  regular units fix the issue. What gives?
> 
>  On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Forbes Mercy
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > After falling in like with the Rocket M Nano's the Rocket M Bullets
> > and
> > the Mimos I have to say I'm firmly unimpressed with the integrated
> > antenna series.  We bought a pack of 10 of the 27dbi grids, not one
> of
> > them would associate to our Mimos yet a bullet and in some cases,
> > where
> > distance wasn't a factor, the Nano Rockets did so without a problem.
> > We
> > just took delivery on the Nano Dish units, we wanted them to do some
> > short range backhauls.
> >
> > Today was our first, replacing a 10MB Motorola backhaul at 5.2 miles,
> > we
> > set up the new dishes up in the office WDS on, WPA on they connected
> > at
> > -50 (as they should in the office), connection firm all night.
> > Installed them today, the AP working well we headed up the mountain
> to
> > install the other one.  It would not see or connect to the other Nano
> > Dish no matter whether we used the lower powered 5.2 or the more
> > generous 5.7/8 frequency range.  Gradually turning off the WDS, then
> > the
> > WPA, then making it 20 MHZ, finally we gave up and the unnecessary
> > beating to my bucket truck that had to climb that mountain left me in
> > a
> > pretty foul mood over the new gear.  I'm about to RMA all of it and
> go
> > back to just bullets and Rockets.
> >
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> ---

Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Beta 5.2.4 Released

[AJ]

I can quite honestly say this is cool :)
Just upgraded a PtP link, one side of the link (3/4 mi) points directly in
to a brand new subdivision... Holy noise floor batman...

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Nick Olsen  wrote:

> Thats not true, They my M2 sees everything from 2402.00 to 2477.00
> And turning on my Microwave makes the high side above 2450 go crazy. It
> won't go any higher then power of -10, and it pegs that.
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Engineer / Customer Support
> (321) 205-1100 x106
>
> 
>
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:10 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Beta 5.2.4 Released
>
> Ubnt radios won't see non-802.11 stuff though...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Michael Baird  wrote:
>
> > You can pick up one for $75 and put an Omni on it.
> >
> > It's pretty good, uses the same interface as their airview analyzers,
> > puts the AP into spectrum analysis mode and talks to a java client
> > running on your desktop.
> >
> > I imagine most any wireless vendor carries them, the big deal with this
> > public release is they finally can handle noise properly and it doesn't
> > cause a reassociation.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> > > I am not a huge UBNT fan but I might be persuaded to buy one of these
> for
> > > each tower to setup as a remote Spectrum Analyzer for each tower
> > location.
> > > How much do these radios run and who sells them on here?
> > > Scriv
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Robert West > >wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> UBNT Beta 5.2.4 was released yesterday.  (Stop the eye rolling.!  J )
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I'm cautious with the Betas so I'm trying the new UBNT AirOS Beta
> > firmware
> > >> on a couple of unused AP radios out in the field.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The Beta has the AirView Spectrum Analyzer in it now.  Works darned
> > good,
> > >> looks just like the software for the little AirView devices we use.
> >  This
> > >> one lets me set the channel scan from 4900 to 6400, gives you the
> > ability
> > >> to
> > >> control whatever range you want to monitor.  Nice and smooth.
>  Downfall
> > is
> > >> that if you do a spectral scan it takes the radio out of whatever mode
> > you
> > >> have and it drops the use of the antenna for anything other than the
> > >> analyzer.  Expected and understandable, however.  No problem with
> that.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> It now has the ability to set Static Routes.  It's about time!  I will
> > be
> > >> playing with that little feature, off network of course, for the next
> > >> couple
> > >> of days.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> And I can now manually set the time zone and date.  I would have
> thought
> > >> that to be a no brainer from the get go but it's finally included.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Still waiting for VPN functions.  I can always dream.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Anyone trying it?  Let me know if you find any issues, I'm waiting for
> a
> > >> bit
> > >> to see what shakes out before I jump in 100%.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Robert West
> > >>
> > >> Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
> > >>
> > >> 740-335-7020
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Logo5
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> --

Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower

[AJ]

9913 coax won't generate audible tones unless the wind is going between say
a tower member and the coax, then it could act as a reed...

9913 and LMR400, however, have been tracked down to be the cause of all
kinds of RF racket when in duplex operation...

http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/ant-sys-index.html



On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Mike  wrote:

> You are correct; it's either a Diamond or Comet.  I think it's a vomit.  I
> took some binoculars out and gazed at the top; the cap is still attached.
> The "wispiness" of the stick is the reason I "lassoed" the top.  It really
> is a thin walled radome.  For what it's worth, it is connected to a UHF
> repeater in my office at the base of the tower and has *phenomenal*
> coverage
> WITHOUT preamplification.  The 9913 coax(NOS) I used wouldn't generate
> those
> tones would it?
>
> Friendly Regards,
>
> Mike Gilchrist
> Disruptive Technologist
> Advanced Wireless Express
> P.O. Box 255
> Toledo, IA   52342
> 239.770.6203
> m...@aweiowa.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 10:51 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> Comet, Diamond and a number of off shore companies
> (Workman/Opek/Tram/Browning/Jetstream) all make a variant of this antenna -
> the most common failure we've had is wind on top mounts snapping them in
> half... If you looked at the inside prior to it being sealed up, it's
> nothing more than a very thin wall fiberglass tube with some brass rod
> hovering in the middle, supsended by nothing more than packing peanuts :)
>
> Another item - couldn't quite tell from the picture - the top metal cap on
> the antenna has been known to blow off (held on with a dab of wood glue, no
> wonder)... This might also cause some issues...
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower

[AJ]

Comet, Diamond and a number of off shore companies
(Workman/Opek/Tram/Browning/Jetstream) all make a variant of this antenna -
the most common failure we've had is wind on top mounts snapping them in
half... If you looked at the inside prior to it being sealed up, it's
nothing more than a very thin wall fiberglass tube with some brass rod
hovering in the middle, supsended by nothing more than packing peanuts :)

Another item - couldn't quite tell from the picture - the top metal cap on
the antenna has been known to blow off (held on with a dab of wood glue, no
wonder)... This might also cause some issues...

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Mike  wrote:

> It took a few minutes to get my recording stuff together.  I was going to
> make a digital recording of the sound to embed here; the wind is up.  Guess
> what?  No sound!  The wind is NOW coming from the SE (it's warming up!) and
> straight into the pvc pipe.  If it is the pipe, then it must take a "cross
> wind" to generate the tone.
>
>
>
> I hadn't thought about the bottom of the antenna.  The sleeve which covers
> the N connector IS over an inch in diameter.  I guess the next trip up the
> tower will include jamming some plumbers putty into all open pipes! LOL
>
>
>
> I am glad to be able to provide a little entertainment this Saturday
> morning.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>  Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
>
>
> Try a second member in the center to properly brace it completely
>
> vertically, wrap all of the pot metal joints with eletrical tape and hope
> it
>
> disappears LOL...
>
>
>
> Also look at the bottom of the antenna mount where the coax comes out -
> this
>
> is roughly 3 times the size of the coax cable that is bouncing around
>
> there..
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Mike  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wind through that short piece of pvc was my first suspect.  But, Bernouli
>
> > effect asside, wouldn't a single "pan flute" create a single tone?  There
>
> > are 4 distinct tones!  It really does play this eerie melody.
>
> >
>
> > Mike
>
> >
>
> > -Original Message-
>
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
> > Behalf Of Brian Webster
>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 10:11 AM
>
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
>
> >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> >
>
> > When I ran a tower construction company, the crews used to tape over the
>
> > ends of pipes when they were on top of the truck going to a job site.
> They
>
> > said the noise from the wind blowing through them would drive them crazy
>
> > while going down the road...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Brian
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -Original Message-
>
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
> > Behalf Of Mike
>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:52 AM
>
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
>
> > Subject: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> >
>
> > A while back, the amateur community talked me into putting a ham antenna
> on
>
> > my highest tower.  It is a dual band 2 meter 70 cm DC grounded unit (as
> per
>
> > my specs).  I built a mount which offsets the stick a couple feet from
> the
>
> > tower.  A piece of 1 inch PVC through which I passed a piece of poly rope
>
> > is
>
> > attached with stainless hose clamps near the top of the stick to lasso
> the
>
> > 17 foot stick to keep it from swaying.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A couple times this winter when I was outside, I heard this eerie melodic
> 4
>
> > part tone.  It sounded like someone blowing across Pan flutes.  Now that
>
> > spring has sprung, every time the wind blows, there is this tune again.
>
> > While I questioned my sanity this winter, I do think it is coming from
> the
>
> > amateur antenna.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Although the sound is somewhat melodic and not objectionable, I fear this
>
> > summer with windows open in the house, it will keep me up at night.  I
> have
>
> > this fear it will be like when I first put that tower up and put a 10
> foot
>
> > by 20 

Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower

[AJ]

Try a second member in the center to properly brace it completely
vertically, wrap all of the pot metal joints with eletrical tape and hope it
disappears LOL...

Also look at the bottom of the antenna mount where the coax comes out - this
is roughly 3 times the size of the coax cable that is bouncing around
there..

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Mike  wrote:

> Wind through that short piece of pvc was my first suspect.  But, Bernouli
> effect asside, wouldn't a single "pan flute" create a single tone?  There
> are 4 distinct tones!  It really does play this eerie melody.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Webster
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 10:11 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> When I ran a tower construction company, the crews used to tape over the
> ends of pipes when they were on top of the truck going to a job site. They
> said the noise from the wind blowing through them would drive them crazy
> while going down the road...
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:52 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> A while back, the amateur community talked me into putting a ham antenna on
> my highest tower.  It is a dual band 2 meter 70 cm DC grounded unit (as per
> my specs).  I built a mount which offsets the stick a couple feet from the
> tower.  A piece of 1 inch PVC through which I passed a piece of poly rope
> is
> attached with stainless hose clamps near the top of the stick to lasso the
> 17 foot stick to keep it from swaying.
>
>
>
> A couple times this winter when I was outside, I heard this eerie melodic 4
> part tone.  It sounded like someone blowing across Pan flutes.  Now that
> spring has sprung, every time the wind blows, there is this tune again.
> While I questioned my sanity this winter, I do think it is coming from the
> amateur antenna.
>
>
>
> Although the sound is somewhat melodic and not objectionable, I fear this
> summer with windows open in the house, it will keep me up at night.  I have
> this fear it will be like when I first put that tower up and put a 10 foot
> by 20 foot flag at the top to raise awareness in the community.  It snapped
> so loud it would wake you from a sound sleep.  One of my best nights was
> when that flag finally came down.
>
>
>
> Since everything was done per my requests, and I want to maintain my stead
> with the amateur community, how does one keep that stick from making those
> noises?  I am hoping someone here has encountered something similar and has
> a resolve.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower

[AJ]

Is it me or does that Tram antenna look significantly bent at the top
towards the tower?

The joints on those $80 antennas tend to both leak and make all kinds of RF
noise if not correctly seated...

Any detail on the PVC joint? We've used a similar setup but with a PVC "T"
connector at the end of the pipe, then siliconed around the antenna to keep
a firm but pliable joint, then used that Tee when attaching to the PVC
pipe... Keeps it from bouncing around too much but still allows some
movement...

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Mike  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>  Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:47 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
>
>
> Got pics?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Mike  wrote:
>
>
>
> > If it was the pipe, wouldn't the tone be a single tone?  It goes up and
>
> > down
>
> > in scale and makes what sounds like 4 notes.  Even with the lasso at the
>
> > top
>
> > to stabilize the stick, the antenna does bow a bit in the wind and that's
>
> > when the tone changes.  If I put more of those "lassos" down the antenna
> to
>
> > stabilize it, would it stop?  Maybe if it IS the pvc I'd have an 8 part
>
> > tune!
>
> >
>
> > The poly rope goes through the PVC and is knotted.  Do you think enough
> air
>
> > still goes by it to make a tune?
>
> >
>
> > Mike
>
> >
>
> > -Original Message-
>
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>
> > Behalf Of Charles Hooper
>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:28 AM
>
> > To: WISPA General List
>
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> >
>
> > Have you tried plugging the ends of the PVC to see if the sound
>
> > subsides? If you're lucky, it's not the antenna but the sound of the
>
> > wind passing through the pipe (it sounds like it gets windy up there!)
>
> >
>
> > -- Charles
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> 
> 
>
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> 
> 
>
> >
>
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> >
>
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>
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>
> >
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> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower

[AJ]

Got pics?



On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Mike  wrote:

> If it was the pipe, wouldn't the tone be a single tone?  It goes up and
> down
> in scale and makes what sounds like 4 notes.  Even with the lasso at the
> top
> to stabilize the stick, the antenna does bow a bit in the wind and that's
> when the tone changes.  If I put more of those "lassos" down the antenna to
> stabilize it, would it stop?  Maybe if it IS the pvc I'd have an 8 part
> tune!
>
> The poly rope goes through the PVC and is knotted.  Do you think enough air
> still goes by it to make a tune?
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Charles Hooper
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pan flutes on the tower
>
> Have you tried plugging the ends of the PVC to see if the sound
> subsides? If you're lucky, it's not the antenna but the sound of the
> wind passing through the pipe (it sounds like it gets windy up there!)
>
> -- Charles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Simple POE Device for 12 VDC Input on NanoStation?

[AJ]

Just received my first "kit" of (2) NanoStation Locos and (2)
NanoStation2Ms, complete with tilt brackets...

Opened the box to find a PoE injector with a chassis mounted 115VAC jack.

What's going to be my best option for injecting 12 VDC off of our battery
bank/plant power directly?

Granted, my last play with PoE devices for wireless PtP was when the CB3s
first came out (used the same power pack as the CB3 to the input connector
on the injector)

Thanks!



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Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?

[AJ]

Now we're cooking with butter :)

I sent off a contact request to them - a bit late for a Friday afternoon but
hopefully I'll hear back from them sometime next week...

I did take a look at the K-Flex products - ATSC in/ASI and/or GigE out...
But at a cost of about 3k per device (which means I would need 10 of
them)...

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS <
ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote:

> Well,
>
> This looks promising, I did a google search for ATSC to IP.
> http://www.computermodules.com/broadcast-systems/8VSB-ATSC-to-IP.html
>
> -Israel
>
> AJ wrote:
> > At this point, there are a total of (6) ATSC carriers we're trying to
> pull
> > down in 1080i. Once they're over on the other side of the lake, we can
> use
> > narrowcast transmitters back from our old headend site back to the new
> > headend where it can be distributed across fiber to the nodes then coax
> back
> > in to the community.
> >
> > Know of any off the shelf options for ATSC or even just native HDMI/DVI
> HD
> > video in to IP out?
> >
> > Windows Box *might* work but the concern would be failure in the winter
> > where it would be located - either helo or snow cat to access
> October-May...
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Israel Lopez-LISTS <
> > ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i?
> >>
> >> Is there coax running through the community?  Just as a thought
> >> exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and
> >> use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across
> >> the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other
> >> end.  Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better +
> >> future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to
> >> compress the channels to lets say 15mbps).
> >>
> >> I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC
> >> and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for
> >> their digital STB for awhile.  (Unknown source)
> >>
> >> -Israel
> >>
> >> AJ wrote:
> >>
> >>> Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP
> >>> wireless?
> >>>
> >>> We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits
> at
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull
> down
> >>> the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters
> >>>
> >> however
> >>
> >>> are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both
> >>>
> >> OTA
> >>
> >>> broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is
> >>> (about 2 miles across a lake).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this?
> >>>
> >>> We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our "lowest" bid was
> >>>
> >> almost
> >>
> >>> 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project.
> >>>
> >>> Suggestions?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
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> >>>
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Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?

[AJ]

At this point, there are a total of (6) ATSC carriers we're trying to pull
down in 1080i. Once they're over on the other side of the lake, we can use
narrowcast transmitters back from our old headend site back to the new
headend where it can be distributed across fiber to the nodes then coax back
in to the community.

Know of any off the shelf options for ATSC or even just native HDMI/DVI HD
video in to IP out?

Windows Box *might* work but the concern would be failure in the winter
where it would be located - either helo or snow cat to access October-May...

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Israel Lopez-LISTS <
ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote:

> How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i?
>
> Is there coax running through the community?  Just as a thought
> exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and
> use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across
> the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other
> end.  Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better +
> future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to
> compress the channels to lets say 15mbps).
>
> I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC
> and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for
> their digital STB for awhile.  (Unknown source)
>
> -Israel
>
> AJ wrote:
> > Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP
> > wireless?
> >
> > We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at
> the
> > base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down
> > the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters
> however
> > are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both
> OTA
> > broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is
> > (about 2 miles across a lake).
> >
> >
> > Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this?
> >
> > We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our "lowest" bid was
> almost
> > 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project.
> >
> > Suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] State Education Networks?

[AJ]

Kevin - same network/bid conflict?

http://www.newwest.net/city/article/syringa_sues_over_idaho_education_network_contract/C108/L108/
Syringa Sues Over Idaho Education Network Contract *Company awarded part of
the IEN contract says its bid was better in the first place, and it's being
shut out of the project.





*
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> It sounds like the large corporate "political fix" may already be "in"
> but in politics nothing is ever final. I'd suggest getting together with
> some other local and regional ISPs and using publicity (responsibly) to
> hold the State's feet to the fire. You can use the financial "bottom
> line" to get the public's attention.
>
> Good luck,
>
> jack
>
> Kevin Owen wrote:
> > The State I provide service in (Idaho) is in the process of building a
> Statewide Educational Network.  I am interested in hearing from any of you
> are providing service in a State that has built a State Educational Network
> and if so, are local providers used to provide any of the last miles
> services to the schools?
> >
> > Idaho started by saying they would work with the local providers,
> however, now they have changed their tune and local providers are not given
> the opportunity to even bid on the service.
> >
> > Qwest is charging at least 3 - 5 times what any of the other local ISP's
> could or would charge for the same or more bandwidth.  We are simply told we
> are not able to provide the service due to technical reasons, however, the
> State thus far has not defined what those technical reasons are.  The
> difference in cost per year is in the millions.
> >
> > Our State IT group is also saying this is how it is done in other states
> to provide a quality and cost effective network.
> >
> > So does anybody provide any last mile services to any Statewide
> educational network?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kevin
> > First Step Internet, LLC
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
> Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
> 1993
> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
> If you are not a WISPA Member - What are you waiting for?
>
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[WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?

[AJ]

Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP
wireless?

We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at the
base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down
the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters however
are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both OTA
broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is
(about 2 miles across a lake).


Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this?

We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our "lowest" bid was almost
28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project.

Suggestions?



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Re: [WISPA] Fish Tape / OT

[AJ]

We've used a conduit rodder with mixed success in the past - works excellent
for buried conduit that is partially blocked; drop ceiling work is a bit
more complicated but for the majority of the time, if it's a drop
ceiling/plenum space, it's no longer than our standard fish tape.

http://www.wctproducts.com/rodder_page.htm#bigbuddy

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Scott Carullo wrote:

> Good morning...
>
> Looking for a good fiberglass fish tape 250-500 feet
>
> Anyone that has any good suggestions on what they have used and like let me
> know please.
>
> I already have the vacuum and string rig the fish tape is for something
> else...  Thanks
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] msn.com

[AJ]

Looks like a new lay out... Possible DNS change...

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/msn.com

says its down...



On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> Pulls up for me.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:08 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] msn.com
>
> Is MSN down? -RickG
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Side Mount to Wooden Utility Pole?

[AJ]

I kinda ruled out stainless hose clamps after seeing a solar panel fall from
the leg of a Trylon tower about a decade ago... Granted, there were two
sharp points (inside ends of the L shaped tower leg) that probably
contributed to the failure in high winds, but in this case where it's only
wood, that might work.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Bob Moldashel  wrote:

> Get a piece of 1 1/4" conduit and bend like this:
>
>l
>l
>l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
>
>
> And strap it to the pole with stainless hose clamps
>
> If you are just mounting an omni you can get away with 1"
>
> -B-
>
>
>
>
> AJ wrote:
> > Anyone have any detailed photos or ideas for side mounting to a wooden
> > utility pole?
> >
> > We have a site that will only allow side mounting at about 35' AGL on a
> > wooden utility pole.
> >
> > I considered building a stand off bracket out of Unistrut and mounting it
> > directly through the hole with galvanized hardware but it seems a bit
> > overkill for a single omni.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> 
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[WISPA] Side Mount to Wooden Utility Pole?

[AJ]

Anyone have any detailed photos or ideas for side mounting to a wooden
utility pole?

We have a site that will only allow side mounting at about 35' AGL on a
wooden utility pole.

I considered building a stand off bracket out of Unistrut and mounting it
directly through the hole with galvanized hardware but it seems a bit
overkill for a single omni.

Thanks!



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Re: [WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?

[AJ]

Wow those Tycon panels look right up our alley - what exactly seems to be
the preferred mounting bracket/hardware for these?

Thanks!
-AJ

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Scott Parsons  wrote:

> You have plenty of battery capacity to handle your intermittent load so you
> just really have to deal with the standby load. A 10W solar panel would
> handle your standby load.
> There's a handy calculator at tyconpower.com/learning_center
> I would recommend a small 30W solar panel to take care of standby load and
> give enough extra capacity to keep the battery bank fully charged.
> A 12V 5A controller would handle the charging of the batteries and your
> load.
> Some prices from beezwaxproducts.com
> 30W 12V panel $179
> 12V 5A controller $24.95
>
> Scott
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?
>
> Thought I'd tap in to the collective intelligence of the WISP group for
> this
> question...
>
>
> Looking at setting up a solar powered VHF ham repeater in the middle of a
> metro area for infill coverage... Site is land locked by ghetto on one side
> and rail tracks on the other - commercial power is not an option.
>
> We have available a dozen or so surplus Alpha 85 amp hour gel cell
> batteries
> which test out at roughly 90% capacity (PM swaps)...
>
> The first thought was to simply charge up a battery for each event we work
> in the downtown core, drop by the site and swap out whatever battery is in
> place.. Not quite the most efficient plan.
>
> Our next thought was to place a decent sized array, maybe 300-400 amp hour,
> then supplement with an off the shelf solar panel or two to maintain a
> charge...
>
> Our equipment consists of an ancient GE MastrII repeater turned down to 25
> watts and an NHRC controller. Standby draw is 125 mA, transmit ramps up to
> about 3.5 amps...
>
> Duty cycle is key here - we work perhaps a dozen events a year within the
> coverage of this repeater for about 4 hours each on about a 10% duty cycle
> (TX 6 out of every 60 minutes). The rest of the time the repeater sits idle
> and will not transmit unnecessarily (no IDs or anything unless it's
> actively
> in use)...
>
> What is out there on the market for a low cost solar site?
>
> Thanks!
> -AJ
>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?

[AJ]

Oops, forgot to mention that part - license from the city parks and rec
department (who owns the land the abandoned railroad building and wooden
poles sit on) specifically prohibits the use of wind generation equipment.
Small inconvenience for a free site :)

Thanks!
-AJ

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:20 PM, richard sterne wrote:

> I would go for a dual site wind and solar. It covers for long spell of
> cloud.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?

[AJ]

As far as sun hours are concerned, this is in the Boise, Idaho area which
falls within Zone 4 with an average 4.5 sun hours per day. The site itself
should be in full sun the majority of the day as it sits on a bench above
the downtown area.

The "inversion" haze is pretty bad in the winter - however - not many
parades, marathons, races or marches (other than the Boise Holiday Parade)
between November and April...

Power is consistent across the board - all of the radio and control
equipment work directly off of 12 VDC.

Batteries are free to us as surplussed by the utility donating them.

I *completely* agree with security screws on panels - the BLM sites here
have heavy L channel over the edges of the panel with pad locks to
completely secure the panel in place.

We work on roughly a $500 annual operating budget solely from donations -
whatever we end up with would need to be scalable so we can start out with a
very basic system and ramp up over time.

Thanks!

-AJ

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Christopher Erickson <
christopher.k.erick...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Latitude and average cloud cover will be factors.
>
> I would use MorningStar MPPT solar charge controllers.  Get every
> last watt of solar charging you can manage.  Each controller can
> handle one to three 75 to 200 watt panels.  If you end up needing
> more than three panels, add controllers and panels until
> sufficient charging is obtained.
>
> Avoid as many power conversions as possible.  Power conversions
> never have 100% efficiency and many of your precious watts end up
> wasted as heat.
>
> 6V golf cart batteries are the best bang for the battery buck and
> can be deep cycled much better than 12V automotive-style batteries
> because they have much thicker plates.
>
> Dusty and/or snowy areas can be a problem.  If so, schedule
> regular PMI visits to inspect and clean the panels.
>
> Use security screws on the solar panel mounting brackets.  Solar
> panels are starting to become a popular theft item.
>
> "My advice is free and worth every penny!"
>
> -Christopher Erickson
> Network Design Engineer
> Waikoloa Village, HI 96738
> N19°57' W155°47'
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of AJ
> > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:38 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?
> >
> > Thought I'd tap in to the collective intelligence of the WISP
> > group for this
> > question...
> >
> >
> > Looking at setting up a solar powered VHF ham repeater in the
> > middle of a
> > metro area for infill coverage... Site is land locked by
> > ghetto on one side
> > and rail tracks on the other - commercial power is not an option.
> >
> > We have available a dozen or so surplus Alpha 85 amp hour gel
> > cell batteries
> > which test out at roughly 90% capacity (PM swaps)...
> >
> > The first thought was to simply charge up a battery for each
> > event we work
> > in the downtown core, drop by the site and swap out whatever
> > battery is in
> > place.. Not quite the most efficient plan.
> >
> > Our next thought was to place a decent sized array, maybe
> > 300-400 amp hour,
> > then supplement with an off the shelf solar panel or two to maintain a
> > charge...
> >
> > Our equipment consists of an ancient GE MastrII repeater
> > turned down to 25
> > watts and an NHRC controller. Standby draw is 125 mA,
> > transmit ramps up to
> > about 3.5 amps...
> >
> > Duty cycle is key here - we work perhaps a dozen events a
> > year within the
> > coverage of this repeater for about 4 hours each on about a
> > 10% duty cycle
> > (TX 6 out of every 60 minutes). The rest of the time the
> > repeater sits idle
> > and will not transmit unnecessarily (no IDs or anything
> > unless it's actively
> > in use)...
> >
> > What is out there on the market for a low cost solar site?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -AJ
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > --
> > --
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> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> &g

[WISPA] Solar suggestion for ultra low use site?

[AJ]

Thought I'd tap in to the collective intelligence of the WISP group for this
question...


Looking at setting up a solar powered VHF ham repeater in the middle of a
metro area for infill coverage... Site is land locked by ghetto on one side
and rail tracks on the other - commercial power is not an option.

We have available a dozen or so surplus Alpha 85 amp hour gel cell batteries
which test out at roughly 90% capacity (PM swaps)...

The first thought was to simply charge up a battery for each event we work
in the downtown core, drop by the site and swap out whatever battery is in
place.. Not quite the most efficient plan.

Our next thought was to place a decent sized array, maybe 300-400 amp hour,
then supplement with an off the shelf solar panel or two to maintain a
charge...

Our equipment consists of an ancient GE MastrII repeater turned down to 25
watts and an NHRC controller. Standby draw is 125 mA, transmit ramps up to
about 3.5 amps...

Duty cycle is key here - we work perhaps a dozen events a year within the
coverage of this repeater for about 4 hours each on about a 10% duty cycle
(TX 6 out of every 60 minutes). The rest of the time the repeater sits idle
and will not transmit unnecessarily (no IDs or anything unless it's actively
in use)...

What is out there on the market for a low cost solar site?

Thanks!
-AJ



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Re: [WISPA] DSL or cable company connectivity

[AJ]

When we had our DSL backbone, using Qwest was a no-go but using a DSL
reseller (private label DSL) was more than happy to get up squared away... I
think at the time the pricing was within $30/mo between the private reseller
and Qwest...

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:

> Use an ISP that allows for reselling, then it is not an issue.
>
> Megapath comes to mind.
>
> ryan
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Mike  wrote:
>
> > We were having a private conversation off-list and something came
> > up.  I know some of you use DSL or cable company connectivity as
> > backup or to feed some of your remote sites.  How do you deal with
> > them?  Do they balk when you tell them you are an ISP?  Do you tell
> > them?  Curious what you find to be the norm when dealing with these
> > entities.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping Programs...

[AJ]

Completely off topic - but during the holiday season, we replace the regular
white lighting in the dispatch center with red rope lighting - a bit easier
on the eyes...

For our larger mapping projects (back on topic), I'll either use the two
LCDs on the wall or a projector...

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Very nice!  Back in my Qwest days, the NOC used projectors to display
> network status on the upper part of the curved walls.  It was pretty dark
> in
> there obviously so it was very quiet as well.  Was a nice place to chill
> out
> and hide.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:04 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Large Monitors with high resolution for Mapping
> Programs...
>
>  I have a pair of 48" Vizio LCDs mounted on the wall for various
> infrastructure monitoring using the RGB inputs and a dual output card in a
> Dell desktop. They work pretty well but they both had issues with dim
> picture after about 3 months... Replaced the power outlet to them and the
> warrenty replaced both displays. So far so good for the last year or so.
> Makes it MUCH easier to monitor at a glance critical systems without having
> to use up more of my primary PC's desktop (tri monitor setup)...
>
> Picture attached - we usually have a number of telemetry monitoring
> applications up...
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Brad Belton  wrote:
>
> > Agreed, resolution is key for me too.  I keep the right monitor open
> > with Wispmon or RadioMobile running or sometimes I just have six or
> > more Winbox windows open on it monitoring client routers etc...
> >
> > I don't know what I'd do without the desktop space I have now and have
> > even found myself looking for more on occasion!
> >
> > We have a projector setup in my brothers office that has decent
> > resolution, but no way I'd want that over my 30" monitors.  However,
> playing any first
> > person shooter game is impressive.   LOL!
> >
> > My other brother uses his 1080p 46-47" LCD Vizio on his wall as a
> > second monitor.  It's ok too, but again resolution is lacking for much
> > of anything other than network status information or general web
> browsing.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
> >
> > I believe there are bigger\better monitors, but I believe you're going
> > up exponentially in price.  I know I've seen a DLP projector whose
> > smaller resolution was 3000 or 4000, but it was about $125k.
> >
> > I'd rather have 30" monitors than larger TVs because of resolution,
> > but I'm thinking a large 1080p TV mounted to a wall would make a nice
> > display for a rolling network status presentation (network maps of
> > different parts, server
> >
> > status, network utilizations, etc.).
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From: "Brad Belton" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:23 AM
> > To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
> >
> > > Funny you mention this...yes, viewing RadioMobile or Wispmon on my
> > > twin 30"
> > > monitors running 2560 x 1600 each makes for a fair amount of
> playground.
> > > 
> > >
> > > Hmmm...twin 52" monitors would be nice, but I doubt there is a display
> > > larger than 30" that will support 2560 x 1600.   Dang it!
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Robert West
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:57 AM
> > > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
> > >
> > > You mean you don't have a 52" widescreen monitor?  Until you get the
> > > technology that you are SUPPOSED to have, stop your belly aching
> > > just because you can't read 8pt type!
> > >
> &

Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors

[AJ]

PPC connectors, at least for CATV Mainline, in our neck of the woods,
have best been described as P*ss poor connectors... They don't like
our climate lol...

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:00 PM,   wrote:
> Yeah I left PPC connectors out of the conversation.  We used them quite a 
> bit. The ability to keep out water is 100 times better than standard N type 
> LMR400 connectors but I know of sweeoing issues with these from other users. 
> And the cost is a little higher.
>
> We still waterproof even when using PPC connectors
>
> Bob
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Lawrence E. Bakst" 
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:32:10
> To: WISPA General List
> Cc: 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
>
> This is going to sound like a Huber+Suhner commercial.
>
> 1. Waterproof connectors
> At 11:41 PM + 11/19/09, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
>>No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself.  
>>You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet 
>>you are lucky. Plain and simple.
>
> True for most low end connectors. However, H+S makes connectors with 
> integrated o-rings that are IP68/NEMA-6 rated. That means they have to pass a 
> water submersion test. I have used the product with success. They are 
> probably more expensive than most WISP's can afford, but you get what you pay 
> for. I don't know if they have one that would work for LMR-400 cable.
>
> They also make hermetically sealed connectors.
>
> http://www.hubersuhnerinc.com/co-ca-us/mozilla/us-news.htm?org=4F0184A3DC3E6840&newsid=D05AABE63966F25E&itemstate=2&back=ECC6CA06810995BD1581FAC18CAA4AFB
>
>
> 2. adhesive shrink tubing
> At 4:42 PM -0700 11/19/09, AJ wrote:
>>CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :)
>
> Adhesive shrink tubing probably won't pass IP68, but that doesn't mean it 
> won't help.
>
> 3. There is better cable out there than LMR-400. Again H+S makes one that is 
> quite a bit better, especially at 5.8 GHz, and not too expensive.
>
> Contact me off list if you need pointers. Having said that I suspect that H+S 
> doesn't want to sell directly to WISPs but rather to large customers and 
> distributors.
>
> Best,
>
> leb
>
>
>
> At 11:41 PM + 11/19/09, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
>>No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself.  
>>You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet 
>>you are lucky. Plain and simple.
>>
>>Bob
>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: "MDK" 
>>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
>>
>>
>>I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry them.
>>Anyone out west have these?
>>
>>Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built 10
>>foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues.
>>
>>We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and none of
>>them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain nameless
>>forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the pre-made
>>I've bought from multiple places.   Our temporary site needed to go up in a
>>real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of them
>>have had issues.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> --
> l...@iridescent.org
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> htt

Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors

[AJ]

We used to use the wrap type CANUSA product similar to Coaxseal but the mess
it left took time to clean up during outage repairs just to get to the
connector body And our contractors couldn't understand that one wrap was
sufficient, didn't need to wrap it 3 or 4 times like electrical tape...

We use almost exclusively the CFTV shrink... For underground and overhead
plant we use a small butane torch (size of a deck of cards)... For overhead
when the wind is hitting us (over about 10 mph at 20' AGL), we use a MAPP
gas torch which speeds up the process...

Our biggest thing is 1) water penetration and 2) time to remove for
repair... The adhesive takes care of the water issue and the single score
with a razor knife makes removal quick and without a big mess.

http://dsgcanusa.com/literature/datasheets/DATA_CFTV.pdf

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Mark Stephenson <
m...@countryconnections.net> wrote:

> Have you tried CTB-15 from CANUSA?
>
> http://www.dsgcanusa.com/literature/datasheets/DATA_CTB-15.pdf
>
> The description seems pretty good and it does not require heat.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> On 11/19/09 10:56 PM, "AJ"  wrote:
>
> > I used to use Coax-seal on everything... Finally discovered CANUSA and
> won't
> > ever turn back... Great seal and just takes a decent razor blade to
> remove
> > with no residue... Just gotta remember to put it on the coax line
> *before*
> > you tighten the fitting... Doh lol.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, RickG  wrote:
> >
> >> Yes -  hate the mess but seals the best!
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:43 PM,  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Coax-seal
> >>> On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:42 PM, AJ wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :)
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM,  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by
> >>> itself.
> >>>>> You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not
> >>> getting
> >>>>> wet you are lucky. Plain and simple.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bob
> >>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Original Message-
> >>>>> From: "MDK" 
> >>>>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52
> >>>>> To: WISPA General List
> >>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry
> >>> them.
> >>>>> Anyone out west have these?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole
> pre-built
> >>> 10
> >>>>> foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and
> >> none
> >>> of
> >>>>> them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain
> >>> nameless
> >>>>> forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the
> >>>>> pre-made
> >>>>> I've bought from multiple places.   Our temporary site needed to go
> up
> >>> in a
> >>>>> real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of
> >>> them
> >>>>> have had issues.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> -
> >> ---
> >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> -
> >> ---
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors

[AJ]

I used to use Coax-seal on everything... Finally discovered CANUSA and won't
ever turn back... Great seal and just takes a decent razor blade to remove
with no residue... Just gotta remember to put it on the coax line *before*
you tighten the fitting... Doh lol.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, RickG  wrote:

> Yes -  hate the mess but seals the best!
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:43 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Coax-seal
> > On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:42 PM, AJ wrote:
> >
> > > CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :)
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM,  wrote:
> > >
> > >> No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by
> > itself.
> > >> You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not
> > getting
> > >> wet you are lucky. Plain and simple.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: "MDK" 
> > >> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52
> > >> To: WISPA General List
> > >> Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry
> > them.
> > >> Anyone out west have these?
> > >>
> > >> Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built
> > 10
> > >> foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues.
> > >>
> > >> We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and
> none
> > of
> > >> them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain
> > nameless
> > >> forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the
> > >> pre-made
> > >> I've bought from multiple places.   Our temporary site needed to go up
> > in a
> > >> real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of
> > them
> > >> have had issues.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors

[AJ]

CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :)

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM,  wrote:

> No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself.
>  You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting
> wet you are lucky. Plain and simple.
>
> Bob
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "MDK" 
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
>
>
>  I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry them.
> Anyone out west have these?
>
> Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built 10
> foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues.
>
> We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and none of
> them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain nameless
> forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the
> pre-made
> I've bought from multiple places.   Our temporary site needed to go up in a
> real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of them
> have had issues.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Need a new AP

[AJ]

Hahaha Gmail ads came up with this firmware as I was reading this thread:

http://www.fireserve.com/products/ubiquiti/bullet-m-firmware.php

chop
*Adds 802.11-compatible encryption modes
*The stock Ubiquiti firmware only supports WPA-AES encryption.  Our firmware
adds support for 64-bit and 128-bit WEP, WPA-TKIP and WPA2-TKIP.
/chop


Pretty spendy for just a single unit...

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:

> In that case, use a MikroTik RB411R.
> Integrated radio, and MT can do various encryptions you need.
>
> Sorry, I overlooked that part of the request.
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, pat  wrote:
>
> > Bullet M2's won't do WEP until the release of firmware version 5.1 which
> > has been "in just a couple of weeks" for at least the last two months.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jayson Baker wrote:
> > > UBNT Bullet M2?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, pat  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> I have one small group on an old Cisco Aironet 350, which only does
> > >> 802.11b.
> > >>
> > >> 1)  I want to have at least a b/g mix, n capable a bonus.
> > >>
> > >> 2)  Must support WEP encryption, but be able to handle a mix of WEP
> and
> > >> WPA simultaneously.  (WEP for legacy clients that I haven't upgraded)
> > >>
> > >> 3)  Must play nice with Tranzeo CPQ and CPE200.
> > >>
> > >> You input is helpful.
> > >>
> > >> TIA,
> > >>
> > >> Pat
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[AJ]

We have a blend of Option 2... All outgoing Port 25 is blocked except for
our mail server, relaying is allowed by authenticated using the users
primary account info (username/password) ON OUR NETWORK ONLY. Postini is
used to filter outbound messages to spam server issues... All inbound to the
network on 25 is blocked... Users can use webmail if they need access off
our network.

This is for residential customers only... Business customers we use firewall
rules (at the premise) to route all mail traffic through our Postini
servers...

We being a cable provider with a bit under 400k users...

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:


> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
>
>
>
> Option 1.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
> Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
> now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
> spam server.
>
>
>
> Option 2.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
> users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
> spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.
>
>
>
> Option 3.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
> authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
> works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
> the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
> account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
> meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
> j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
> so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
> This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
> can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
> is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
> server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
> have to do. This is what we currently do.
>
>
>
> Option 4.
>
> Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
> messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
> threshold.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck Hogg
>
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
>
> http://www.shelbybb.com 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing

[AJ]

As one of those "big guys"...

We have tiers for data usage both on a Daily and a Monthly rate.
For our base line customers on a $25 a month plan, it's 1.5 meg down with
1GB total per month bandwidth; 8 bucks a gig beyond that up to 5 gigs,
everything beyond that is covered at a max $70 cap... Designed for VERY LOW
USE users only... Grandma with email... That's about it...

Rest of the plans go $40, 50 and 60/mo for 5, 10 and 15 meg connections...
15 meg is burstable to 20 meg if bandwidth is available (usually 11 pm to 10
am local time)

Speeds are max rated; if a user exceeds 2,5 GB, 4.5 GB or 11 GB for each
plan respectively during the high use period (noon to midnight local time 7
days a week), we throttle them down to standard minimum speeds (2.5, 5 & 6
meg). We don't bill beyond that, just slow them down so they don't snag the
rest of the network.

Our "abusers" are profiled as 3 GB combined up/down bandwidth on the 5 meg
plan of 5 GB on the 10 meg plan for more than 15 days out of the billing
month... We chat with them and usually move them up to the next tier... For
the 12 meg customers, there is no monthly bandwidth cap.

So overall, it works out to about 50 GB monthly on our $40 plan and about 70
GB on our $50 plan... Anything beyond that and we discuss with the customer
their options...

We have a completely separate tier of business plans with much higher
bandwidth quotas available at prices that meet the cost of providing the
services...

It's more geared to keep that 10% of customers from using their services at
home for a business (against the AUP); not completely against reasonable
use, we just gear the business class service with a matching SLA and
bandwidth quota to meet their needs...

Can't afford to give everything away... As much as customers EXPECT it, the
free market gets to tell us the need, however, they're not granted the right
to make demands and threats...

Don't like it? Plenty of other options out there... We're the right product
for about 75% of our customers... We go out of our way to avoid getting that
other 25% Either we're too much service for their needs or way too
little...

One size does not fit all...


On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:02 PM, RickG  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> That's the point. The consumer is NOT paying for excessive bandwidth use.
> When bandwidth runs us over $100/meg and one customer uses $300's worth for
> $50/month there is something wrong. The unlimited bandwidth model only
> works
> when you can oversubscribe the bandwidth. With bandwidth usage climbing
> exponentially, the model will soon break. Furthermore, some educated
> consumers are finally realizing that they are subsidizing the bandwidth
> hogs. They ask how is that fair?
> As far as my Netflix idea, I agree my original idea is probably not a good
> solution. I was also a GM at a cable company and maybe we should use them
> as
> a template? HBO, and the other premium channels charge the cable cos for
> the
> customer's usage which we passed on to the customer for a profit. Both HBO
> and the cable co makes money and everyone wins.
> Really, I'm just kicking around ideas because something has to happen. I'm
> not saying I have the right ideas.
> As far as the phone companies, AFAIK the LECS still have an exchange rates
> for calls that terminate on another network. It's just transparent to the
> end users. At any rate, this discussion is much needed.
>
> Thanks to all on this list for their ingenuity which makes this the best
> business field to be in (IMHO)!
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Chuck Bartosch
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Nov 7, 2009, at 2:25 PM, RickG wrote:
> >
> > > In the past, l worked for two electric companies. Their business
> > > models were
> > > dependant on meters. As far as internet access, Compuserve and AOL
> > > had the
> > > right idea from the start. Instead entrepanuers took advantage of
> > > their
> > > weakness at the time. What we are now seeing is the downside of the
> > > $50/month "all you can eat" business model. When usage was low due
> > > to less
> > > apps, it worked fine but were now seeing exponential growth of usage.
> > > Besides that, one thing we (ISP's) are really missing, are agreements
> > > between each other for payment of access to our networks. For
> > > instance, the
> > > phone companies pay each other for access to each others networks. I
> > > realize
> > > this is very complex but shouldnt Netflix (or their provider) pay us
> > > for
> > > utilziation of our networks?
> >
> > I do not see why they (Netflix) should, no. The consumer is already
> > paying you for it. Netflix is not another ISP. It's a "phone call". My
> > phone company does not charge my local hardware store for calling them
> > if they are with a different phone company any more than it charges my
> > mom when I call her back in Minnesota (I live in New York). My *mom's*
> > phone company might charge her for the the call, depending on the
> > plan, but that's 

Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement

[AJ]

Our steps on these DMCA violations...

First time we email the customer - no service interruption...

Second time we disable their CPE and requires a phone call with us to advise
them of the complaint before we re-enable their service.

Third time we require a signed statement faxed or mailed in to us before
re-enabling their CPE from the customer stating they have received the DMCA
complaint and will not continue to violate our AUP...

Fourth time around their service is disconnected and the address is black
listed.




On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Ryan Spott  wrote:

> I agree with Chuck H. Do not give them ANY information regarding your
> customer without a subpoena.
>
> You could take the route of one ISP... (I cannot find the article) ...
> they charge the studio for research time for each notice they get.
>
> The notices stopped coming in so fast when the bills went out!
>
> ryan
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
> > Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio
> > letter.  Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chuck Hogg
> > Shelby Broadband
> > 502-722-9292
> > ch...@shelbybb.com
> > http://www.shelbybb.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Adam Goodman
> > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
> >
> > We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from
> > "Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation" about a download movie from
> > BitTorrent.
> >
> > They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware
> > of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you
> > handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another
> > path?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Adam
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?

[AJ]

Awesome :)

In our experience here where we own both the amateur and wireless network
equipment. The best luck we've had was to use two separate metal enclosures,
one for the ham, one for the network gear and ensure everything is bonded
together. Initially we had issues as well with ethernet ports throwing spurs
in the VHF band. All of the CAT5 was swapped to shielded CAT5 and the entire
networking radio was encased in a metal subenclosure with the drain wire
connected at the entry point. Knocked out all of the interference we were
dealing with. Also, removed all of our spans of LMR400 going up the tower
and replaced with Andrew LDF4 for the ham antenna; LMR400 has no business in
duplex operation used with ham repeaters. Oh well, hard lesson learned about
a decade ago.

444.750+ /147.080+ PL100.0 if you're in the Boise, Idaho area...

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Mike  wrote:

> Yes the split is 5, my fingers typed 6.  The repeater frequency is
> 444.000 with a standard 5 MHz offset to 449.000. The tone will be
> 114.8.  So, if you are ever driving down Hwy 30 between Cedar Rapids
> and Marshalltown, you are welcome to use it; it is an open repeater.
>
>
>
> At 12:42 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
> >Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same
> as
> >LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz
> (0.600
> >MHz).
> >
> >Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than
> >12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz
> >channels of 802.11x operation :)
> >
> >On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike  wrote:
> >
> > > Josh:
> > >
> > > Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have
> > > primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum.  Besides 440
> > > (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF).  2 meter and
> > > 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world.  What happens is an
> > > operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and
> > > the equipment transmits on another frequency.  So, low powered hand
> > > held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low
> > > power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which
> > > would be simplex.  The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in
> > > cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and
> > > receive at the same time.  There is a 6MHz separation between
> > > transmit and receive frequencies.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
> > > >Can you please explain "2 meter ham gear"?
> > > >
> > > >Josh Luthman
> > > >Office: 937-552-2340
> > > >Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > >1100 Wayne St
> > > >Suite 1337
> > > >Troy, OH 45373
> > > >
> > > >"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > > >improbable, must be the truth."
> > > >--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet
> there
> > > is a
> > > > > lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've
> never
> > > > > seen
> > > > > the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how
> these
> > > > > ones
> > > > > your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they
> may
> > > be
> > > > > your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and
> anyone
> > > that
> > > > > gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents,
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Fankhauser
> > > > > WAVELINC
> > > > > P.O. Box 126
> > > > > Bucyrus, OH 44820
> > > > > 419-562-6405
> > > > > www.wavelinc.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
> wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Mike
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM
> > > > > To: WISPA General List
> > > > > Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
> > > > >
> > > > > Wispers:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat.
>  It
> > > > > has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes.  We want to
> > > > > install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm
> (440MHz
> > > > > UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio.  The dual band
> antenna
> > > > > feed point will be at 120'.  It is 17' long.  There is no microwave
> > > > > equipment below 160'.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think there will be any issues with interference either
> way,
> > > > > but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any
> > > > > of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio
> > > > > cards?  I can't find spe

Re: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?

[AJ]

Depends on the band... For UHF 440 MHz, the split is usually 5 MHz (same as
LMR in the UHF band). For VHF 144 MHz, the split in the US is 600 KHz (0.600
MHz).

Typical voice channel bandwidth is under 20 KHz for wideband and less than
12.5 KHz for narrowband operation... A far cry from the 5 and 10 MHz
channels of 802.11x operation :)

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Mike  wrote:

> Josh:
>
> Amateur operators, besides talking world wide on HF frequencies, have
> primary allocations in various slots in the spectrum.  Besides 440
> (UHF) there is 144 MHz (2 meter VHF), and 220 MHz (VHF).  2 meter and
> 70 cm repeaters are common in the ham world.  What happens is an
> operator is able to talk to the repeater on the input frequency, and
> the equipment transmits on another frequency.  So, low powered hand
> held devices (or mobile devices) can talk a great distance with low
> power, THROUGH the repeater instead of station-to-station, which
> would be simplex.  The repeater equipment we are using has a built-in
> cavity so the same coax and antenna can be used for transmit and
> receive at the same time.  There is a 6MHz separation between
> transmit and receive frequencies.
>
> Mike
>
> At 12:29 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
> >Can you please explain "2 meter ham gear"?
> >
> >Josh Luthman
> >Office: 937-552-2340
> >Direct: 937-552-2343
> >1100 Wayne St
> >Suite 1337
> >Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> >improbable, must be the truth."
> >--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
> >
> > > In my experiences with 2 meter ham gear that is around Ethernet there
> is a
> > > lot of interference from the Ethernet to the ham guys stuff. I've never
> > > seen
> > > the ham guys cause interference though to any wifi gear.
> > >
> > > Ham guys are a whole different breed of folk and depending on how these
> > > ones
> > > your talking to are they may be an invaluable asset to you or they may
> be
> > > your worst nightmare. The ones around my area are the later and anyone
> that
> > > gets involved with them end up regretting it later down the road.
> > >
> > > Just my 2 cents,
> > >
> > > Kurt Fankhauser
> > > WAVELINC
> > > P.O. Box 126
> > > Bucyrus, OH 44820
> > > 419-562-6405
> > > www.wavelinc.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Mike
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:17 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: [WISPA] Amateur repeater on a wisp tower -- gotchas?
> > >
> > > Wispers:
> > >
> > > I have a 180' tower sitting high on a hill above the county seat.  It
> > > has a mix of 5.8 and 2.4 radios and sectors/dishes.  We want to
> > > install an amateur repeater on the tower, initially at 70 cm (440MHz
> > > UHF), and eventually a 2 m (144MHz VHF) radio.  The dual band antenna
> > > feed point will be at 120'.  It is 17' long.  There is no microwave
> > > equipment below 160'.
> > >
> > > I don't think there will be any issues with interference either way,
> > > but thought I'd tap into the wealth of knowledge here to see if any
> > > of you has any experience doing anything like this on your towers.
> > >
> > > Is there any mixing at uhf (or VHF) going on in the microwave radio
> > > cards?  I can't find specs that even speak of intermediate
> > > frequencies.  Gotchas?  Hints?  Comments?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Mike G
> > >
> > > At 06:38 PM 10/26/2009, you wrote:
> > > >My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down.
> > > >Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've
> > > >begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few
> > > >days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks!
> > > >Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >-
> > --
> > > -
> > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > > >-
> > --
> > > -
> > > >
> > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ---

Re: [WISPA] OT: How to duplex CTV and DISH, same cable

[AJ]

I can tell you the billable labor invoice we send to the customer that
subsequently gets sent to whoever installed the dish equipment after our
service was installed is well in excess of whatever commission or piecemeal
amount the "tech" made installing or selling it... Usually only happens
once, however, with the amount of turn over in this market for DBS
installers, our damage coordinator has been incredibly busy...

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Jerry Richardson  wrote:

> Do you mean so that they can distribute it through the house? Definitely
> no.
>
> If it's to get it into one room it might be possible however the
> complication isn't worth it.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Rick Kunze
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:37 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] OT: How to duplex CTV and DISH, same cable
>
>  I have a customer with a house that has a central wiring closet.  The
> cable coming in from all the rooms is currently used for DISH TV.  They
> want to know if I can put their new cable Internet signal onto the same
> cable.  (RF style, not Ethernet)
>
> This only takes a simple duplexer right?
>
> Any reason this is a problem?  One of the installers told them they
> couldn't combine both signals on the same cable.
>
> Anyone have experience with this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Rk
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] OT: How to duplex CTV and DISH, same cable

[AJ]

Doesn't take much to jack up the return path...

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Jayson Baker wrote:

> So, what you're saying, is that a couple DBS receivers and diplexers, and
> you have a neighborhood of unhappy cable Internet customer?
>
> Interesting
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:21 AM, AJ  wrote:
>
> > In our CATV system we refuse to allow DBS on the same coax as our video
> or
> > data...
> >
> > Yes, they'll both work with diplexers in place...
> >
> > However...
> >
> > The DBS receivers (and the voltage they spit out to power LNBs) throw
> back
> > so much noise in to the system on the return path that both the modem and
> > practically every modem on that leg of the node suffers as a result..
> >
> > Upstream SNR typically sits around 28-36 dBuV in this system... Cutting
> in
> > DBS between the modem and the tap has dropped it down to as low as 10
> > dBuV... US TX levels bounce from 42 dB to 55 dB, DS RX levels drop from 0
> > to
> > -17 dB...
> >
> > Ultimately it's up to CATV system rep, not the customer, as to what they
> > can
> > and can't tie in to their system... Yes, they can maintain their own
> inside
> > wiring, however, the MSO has the right and duty to protect their plant
> from
> > noise caused by customer equipment, poorly shielded inside cabling,
> etc...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:07 AM, richard sterne  > >wrote:
> >
> > > You can get TV/sat splitters/combiners TV covers VHF and UHF bands the
> > > sat from 950 Mhz to 2150 Mhz.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > > 2009/9/28 Jayson Baker :
> > >  > Probably depends on the frequency of the Internet signal you're
> > wanting
> > > to
> > > > duplex onto it.
> > > > Get the right duplexors, and you're fine.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Rick Kunze 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I have a customer with a house that has a central wiring closet.
>  The
> > > >> cable coming in from all the rooms is currently used for DISH TV.
> >  They
> > > >> want to know if I can put their new cable Internet signal onto the
> > same
> > > >> cable.  (RF style, not Ethernet)
> > > >>
> > > >> This only takes a simple duplexer right?
> > > >>
> > > >> Any reason this is a problem?  One of the installers told them they
> > > >> couldn't combine both signals on the same cable.
> > > >>
> > > >> Anyone have experience with this?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >>
> > > >> Rk
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> --

Re: [WISPA] OT: How to duplex CTV and DISH, same cable

[AJ]

In our CATV system we refuse to allow DBS on the same coax as our video or
data...

Yes, they'll both work with diplexers in place...

However...

The DBS receivers (and the voltage they spit out to power LNBs) throw back
so much noise in to the system on the return path that both the modem and
practically every modem on that leg of the node suffers as a result..

Upstream SNR typically sits around 28-36 dBuV in this system... Cutting in
DBS between the modem and the tap has dropped it down to as low as 10
dBuV... US TX levels bounce from 42 dB to 55 dB, DS RX levels drop from 0 to
-17 dB...

Ultimately it's up to CATV system rep, not the customer, as to what they can
and can't tie in to their system... Yes, they can maintain their own inside
wiring, however, the MSO has the right and duty to protect their plant from
noise caused by customer equipment, poorly shielded inside cabling, etc...




On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:07 AM, richard sterne wrote:

> You can get TV/sat splitters/combiners TV covers VHF and UHF bands the
> sat from 950 Mhz to 2150 Mhz.
>
> Richard
>
> 2009/9/28 Jayson Baker :
>  > Probably depends on the frequency of the Internet signal you're wanting
> to
> > duplex onto it.
> > Get the right duplexors, and you're fine.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Rick Kunze 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I have a customer with a house that has a central wiring closet.  The
> >> cable coming in from all the rooms is currently used for DISH TV.  They
> >> want to know if I can put their new cable Internet signal onto the same
> >> cable.  (RF style, not Ethernet)
> >>
> >> This only takes a simple duplexer right?
> >>
> >> Any reason this is a problem?  One of the installers told them they
> >> couldn't combine both signals on the same cable.
> >>
> >> Anyone have experience with this?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Rk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Customer to Bandwidth Ratio

[AJ]

Port 81 blocked here locally by our corporate content filter :(

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> That link popped right open for me.  I'm also outside of that network.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
>  Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Customer to Bandwidth Ratio
>
>
> > This doesn't work (can't get to port 81; if it's MT check to see that you
> > have an admins list and a default drop input policy on it):
> > http://64.146.146.1:81/graphs/iface/uplink-to-pud/
> >
> >> I did have to upgrade a backhaul link to one of the towers recently.  It
> > tested plenty fast but pings would jump to 2000 to 3000ms when you ran a
> > ping test.  My *theory* is that the link was able to handle the speed but
> > not the number of "threads" running through it.
> >
> > Do you mean PPS?  Threads are built on processes, a CPU thing.
> >
> > Being in Washington I'm sure you love trees.  And Microsoft =P
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > improbable, must be the truth."
> > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We test with speakeasy.net most of the time.
> >>
> >> It can be "jerky" too.  We've got nearly 400 wireless or fiber to the
> >> home
> >> (plus servers) subs on a 20 meg pipe.  Here's the current usage:
> >> http://64.146.146.1:81/graphs/iface/uplink-to-pud/
> >>
> >> I did have to upgrade a backhaul link to one of the towers recently.  It
> >> tested plenty fast but pings would jump to 2000 to 3000ms when you ran a
> >> ping test.  My *theory* is that the link was able to handle the speed
> but
> >> not the number of "threads" running through it.
> >>
> >> It was some Airaya gear that had been in place for the better part of 5
> >> or
> >> 6
> >> years.  I sure wish more of my gear would sit there that long and just
> >> work
> >> and work and work!  I think I only did one firmware upgrade too!
> >>
> >> Don't forget that we also charge per bit.  Not per speed.  Our users
> >> likely
> >> use less bandwidth than the average one does.  Out here, with our high
> >> costs
> >> for bandwidth make that matter.
> >>
> >> laters,
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Robert West" 
> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:03 AM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Customer to Bandwidth Ratio
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'm sure this has been asked before but what ratio are some of you
> >> > using
> >> > for
> >> > customer vs. available bandwidth?  We aren't experiencing any problems
> >> > at
> >> > the moment but I want to know when we should start looking to add
> >> > capacity.
> >> > Our competitor is running 20 up and 20 down but has 500+ customers on
> >> > it
> >> > and
> >> > if I do a speed test the pings are fast, 32 or so, but it's really
> >> "jerky"
> >> > on the download and uploads.  So..  What is a good REAL WORLD
> ratio
> >> > that
> >> > you use that is smooth?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > Robert West
> >> > Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> >
> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >> >
> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
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>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Customer to Bandwidth Ratio

[AJ]

We use Cisco SCE2020s at the border. We used to "roll our own" but with a 10
Gig backbone at almost 40% utilization at peak time, it wasn't cost
effective to try to maintain an in house solution that outside consultants
couldn't support.

With the SCEs, we focus on maintaining speed for browsing, email, flash
video and VoIP; P2P and gaming is throttled either during peak utilization
or when a user has exceeded their daily quota between noon and midnight.

"Purchased" speeds are throttled at the CPE which reduces overall
utilization on each backhaul.

We're experimenting with a "burstable" function using the SCE, i.e. 10 meg
with a burst to 20 meg; it's been questionable at best in the lab.


On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

> I see you have some answers, but I think there is a piece missing from
> them.  What is the customer bandwidth throttling you are using?
>
> Robert West wrote:
> > I'm sure this has been asked before but what ratio are some of you using
> for
> > customer vs. available bandwidth?  We aren't experiencing any problems at
> > the moment but I want to know when we should start looking to add
> capacity.
> > Our competitor is running 20 up and 20 down but has 500+ customers on it
> and
> > if I do a speed test the pings are fast, 32 or so, but it's really
> "jerky"
> > on the download and uploads.  So..  What is a good REAL WORLD ratio
> that
> > you use that is smooth?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Robert West
> > Just Micro Digital Services Inc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.93/2365 - Release Date:
> 09/12/09 06:37:00
> >
> >
>
> --
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x4000
> Cell: 260-273-7239
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Nesc codes

[AJ]

Somewhat safe, however, ice loading, cable bundle weight, overall height of
pole, height at lowest communications attachment and type of crossing
beneath the lowest sag of the span are all critical factors.

You can have a pole with 4 single coax runs across it and not have a problem
with loading but run in to issues with clearance... At the same time, a
single cable attachment mounted high on the pole would be fine except for
issues with ice loading and cable weight...

Just requires a lot of footwork to make sure it's doable.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Sales  wrote:

> How safe would the follow assumption be when counting existing cables
> in the communications space on poles?
>
> 4 just forget it
> 3 might be able to
> 2 pretty good chance
> 1 great chance
>
> :) ?
>
> John Buwa
> Michiana Wireless,Inc
> 574-233-7170
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:51 PM, AJ  wrote:
>
>  > The work we do with Idaho Power here requires us to be 30" below the
> > lowest
> > conductor (grounded neutral in our case) from power and 40" from the
> > lowest
> > primary distribution. However, if triplex is coming off the pole
> > (secondary
> > single phase 120/240v from transformer to house, basically the power
> > drop),
> > we have to be 40" below the attachment point of the secondary and
> > 30" apart
> > at the lowest sag point mid-span.
> >
> > The 40" applies to basically primary below 13kv... Above 13kv, i.e.
> > 14.4kv
> > or 24.94 kv, we have to be at least 43" below the lowest primary
> > conductor
> > or any part of the insulator of the conductor at a cross arm.
> >
> > As far as attachment at the pole, we're required to maintain 12"
> > between the
> > centers of the attachment bolts between CATV, Phone and any other
> > communications provider, i.e. point to point fiber, alarm,
> > government fiber,
> > etc. Any amplifier or other device on the line, including drip loops
> > on
> > hardline coax, have to maintain 6" clearance from any other
> > communications
> > cable.
> >
> > With that being said, for new attachments with ice loading, we have to
> > maintain the lowest possible sag of 15' 6" which leaves us at
> > between 17'
> > and 19' AGL at the attachment. Combine this is a transformer and
> > residential
> > triplex drop leaves you with three, sometimes less, eligible
> > communications
> > attachments on the majority of the shorter 45' and 55' poles.
> >
> > In some of our more crowded corridors, we've gone to cross arms
> > where we can
> > load up 4 to 6 utilities horizontally rather than vertically,
> > however, this
> > is usually to compensate for sag at mid span or too short of a pole
> > for 6
> > attachments to begin with.
> >
> > You're looking for NESC Joint Use with is between sections 230 and
> > 238 I
> > believe...
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Sales 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Does anyone know exactly what the nesc codes for fiber on poles are?
> >> We have a run that we want to do and the poles are kinda crowded. The
> >> electric company told us the phone company has to stay on bottom and
> >> there has to be certain gaps. If they have to move people up to make
> >> room they may need to replace poles at our cost. He said we can be
> >> the
> >> judge for free if we follow nesc codes and estimate if we can find a
> >> gap anywhere. So what exactly are we looking for ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
>  > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > ---
> > ---
&g

Re: [WISPA] Nesc codes

[AJ]

Some utilities either mark the top of the communications space or are
required to do so by the local PUC. Locally here in Idaho, its at the
discretion of the pole owner.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Sales  wrote:

> Can we send pics to this list? I noticed on most poles between power
> and nonpower lines there is a plastic looking black ring wrapped
> around the pole. Is this a marker of sort for seperation?
>
> John Buwa
> Michiana Wireless,Inc
> 574-233-7170
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:51 PM, AJ  wrote:
>
> > The work we do with Idaho Power here requires us to be 30" below the
> > lowest
> > conductor (grounded neutral in our case) from power and 40" from the
> > lowest
> > primary distribution. However, if triplex is coming off the pole
> > (secondary
> > single phase 120/240v from transformer to house, basically the power
> > drop),
> > we have to be 40" below the attachment point of the secondary and
> > 30" apart
> > at the lowest sag point mid-span.
> >
> > The 40" applies to basically primary below 13kv... Above 13kv, i.e.
> > 14.4kv
> > or 24.94 kv, we have to be at least 43" below the lowest primary
> > conductor
> > or any part of the insulator of the conductor at a cross arm.
> >
> > As far as attachment at the pole, we're required to maintain 12"
> > between the
> > centers of the attachment bolts between CATV, Phone and any other
> > communications provider, i.e. point to point fiber, alarm,
> > government fiber,
> > etc. Any amplifier or other device on the line, including drip loops
> > on
> > hardline coax, have to maintain 6" clearance from any other
> > communications
> > cable.
> >
> > With that being said, for new attachments with ice loading, we have to
> > maintain the lowest possible sag of 15' 6" which leaves us at
> > between 17'
> > and 19' AGL at the attachment. Combine this is a transformer and
> > residential
> > triplex drop leaves you with three, sometimes less, eligible
> > communications
> > attachments on the majority of the shorter 45' and 55' poles.
> >
> > In some of our more crowded corridors, we've gone to cross arms
> > where we can
> > load up 4 to 6 utilities horizontally rather than vertically,
> > however, this
> > is usually to compensate for sag at mid span or too short of a pole
> > for 6
> > attachments to begin with.
> >
> > You're looking for NESC Joint Use with is between sections 230 and
> > 238 I
> > believe...
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Sales 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Does anyone know exactly what the nesc codes for fiber on poles are?
> >> We have a run that we want to do and the poles are kinda crowded. The
> >> electric company told us the phone company has to stay on bottom and
> >> there has to be certain gaps. If they have to move people up to make
> >> room they may need to replace poles at our cost. He said we can be
> >> the
> >> judge for free if we follow nesc codes and estimate if we can find a
> >> gap anywhere. So what exactly are we looking for ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
>  > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > ---
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Nesc codes

[AJ]

The work we do with Idaho Power here requires us to be 30" below the lowest
conductor (grounded neutral in our case) from power and 40" from the lowest
primary distribution. However, if triplex is coming off the pole (secondary
single phase 120/240v from transformer to house, basically the power drop),
we have to be 40" below the attachment point of the secondary and 30" apart
at the lowest sag point mid-span.

The 40" applies to basically primary below 13kv... Above 13kv, i.e. 14.4kv
or 24.94 kv, we have to be at least 43" below the lowest primary conductor
or any part of the insulator of the conductor at a cross arm.

As far as attachment at the pole, we're required to maintain 12" between the
centers of the attachment bolts between CATV, Phone and any other
communications provider, i.e. point to point fiber, alarm, government fiber,
etc. Any amplifier or other device on the line, including drip loops on
hardline coax, have to maintain 6" clearance from any other communications
cable.

With that being said, for new attachments with ice loading, we have to
maintain the lowest possible sag of 15' 6" which leaves us at between 17'
and 19' AGL at the attachment. Combine this is a transformer and residential
triplex drop leaves you with three, sometimes less, eligible communications
attachments on the majority of the shorter 45' and 55' poles.

In some of our more crowded corridors, we've gone to cross arms where we can
load up 4 to 6 utilities horizontally rather than vertically, however, this
is usually to compensate for sag at mid span or too short of a pole for 6
attachments to begin with.

You're looking for NESC Joint Use with is between sections 230 and 238 I
believe...


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Sales  wrote:

>
> Does anyone know exactly what the nesc codes for fiber on poles are?
> We have a run that we want to do and the poles are kinda crowded. The
> electric company told us the phone company has to stay on bottom and
> there has to be certain gaps. If they have to move people up to make
> room they may need to replace poles at our cost. He said we can be the
> judge for free if we follow nesc codes and estimate if we can find a
> gap anywhere. So what exactly are we looking for ?
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions

[AJ]

What are you guys using to cut Unistrut?

I love using it for side mounts on towers but most of those were precut to
length before I arrived at the work site...

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Eje Gustafsson  wrote:

> Careful with those. You tighten up to hard or you attach to an old chimney
> and you might find yourself with a big mason bill and maybe even a
> carpenter
> bill as well.
>
> / Eje
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>  Behalf Of ralph
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:26 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> This is a weird looking animal!  A chimney mount for a dish with 5 straps.
> http://www.ronard.com/4424.html
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
>
> http://www.ronard.com/730731.html
>
> A bit more expensive / sturdy / configurable...
>
> Probably overkill.
>
> Ronard makes really good stuff.
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
> > [IMG]http://i28.tinypic.com/fnsxl.jpg[/IMG]
> >
> > Another crude rendering.
> >
> > The bottom is where he mounts the pipe to the side of the house.  Then it
> > goes up and the bend allows it to go out and up over the eave and then
> back
> > into over the roof.  If the bend is too far out, they swing the assembly
> in
> > towards the eave and mount to that as well.
> >
> > He said he has the muffler shop bend it just like regular muffler pipe,
> the
> > alloy is similar as in it's pretty soft and easy to bend.  So it does a
> 90
> > degree, then up and a 90 degree back and up again.  Looked darned simple
> and
> > he buys the EMT for 13 bucks and pays the muffler guy something like 20
> > bucks to do 10 or 20 of them.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:06 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
> >
> > I think the bottom horizontal line is the base of the standard powmount -
> > but the top horizontal line is where I am confused.  You said the muffler
> > shop bends it, does it make a shift like a traditional muffler? 90 turn?
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > improbable, must be the truth."
> > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Robert West
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> No, it's like this crude ASCII rendering.
> >> He puts a U clamp on the bottom and on the eave.
> >>
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> --I
> >>I
> >>I
> >>I
> >> ---
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >> I
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:38 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensions
> >>
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> Your competitor's U shaped EMT - does it look like my painting?
> >>
> >> http://i27.tinypic.com/30woz1k.jpg
> >>
> >> Note - IANAA (I am not an artist)
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> >> improbable, must be the truth."
> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Robert West
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> My competitor here uses 1.25" EMT conduit from Home Depot, 13 bucks for
> >>>
> > a
> >
> >>> 10' section.  He takes them to the local muffler shop and has them bend
> >>> them
> >>> with a block U shape so that he can mount them to the side of the house
> >>> under the peak and the bend allows him to swing the mount to the eave
> as
> >>> well for stability.  For additional height he inserts the next smaller
> >>>
> >> size
> >>
> >>> of EMT 1 to 2 feet inside the 1.25" and puts a couple of 1/4" bolts to
> >>> attach them together.  He can add another 8 or 9 feet this way.  BUT,
> >>>
> > EMT
> >
> >>> is
> >>> a soft allow, it's made to bend easily so I certainly wouldn't want to
> >>> trust
> >>> it with anything with a large wind load very high up.
> >>>
> >>> I haven't tried it but he says it works perfect for him and his guys
> >>> install
> >>> a lot faster now.
> >>>
> >>> Bob-
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
> >>> To: WISPA General List
> >>> Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Mount extensio

Re: [WISPA] solar site

[AJ]

You engineer a fold down bracket with sheer pins for the designed hinge
point but grade 8 hardware for most anything else.

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Jerry Richardson  wrote:

> Uh oh.
>
> So what do you use? Regular U bolt clamps?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of AJ
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>
> Note to sell -
>
> NEVER EVER use radiator clamps to hold steel L beam brackets to a Trylon
> steel tower leg...
>
> Microburst winds snapped the brackets right off the tower, shattering the
> panel...
>
> Hard lesson learned :(
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Marlon K. Schafer  >wrote:
>
> > Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system
> > good enough for our radios these days?
> >
> > Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors!
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mike" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
> >
> >
> >  >I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00
> > > charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built
> > > my own.  So far, the "fully charged" light comes on every day.  The
> > > battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week.  Might
> > > not be the club way to do it, but it works.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote:
> > >>Hi All,
> > >>
> > >>Sorry for the cross post.  Time is short on this project and I need a
> lot
> > >>of
> > >>help.
> > >>
> > >>I've never done a solar project.  Never really even looked at them due
> to
> > >>the costs I've seen tossed about.
> > >>
> > >>Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment
> > >>needed to cover his community.  The ONLY way into the area is a hill
> > >>that's
> > >>within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power.
> > >>
> > >>I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for
> this
> > >>site.  One backhaul and 1 distribution.  I'll guess that I'll have less
> > >>than
> > >>a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality).
> > >>
> > >>We don't often get long periods of no sun.  Could be days of fog or low
> > >>clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun.  On the foggy
> > or
> > >>cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind
> > >>generation.
> > >>I think.
> > >>
> > >>So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors
> > >>welcome!)
> > >>and anything else I'm missing.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks all!
> > >>marlon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >>
> > >>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >>http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> >>
> > >>
> > >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> &

Re: [WISPA] solar site

[AJ]

Note to sell -

NEVER EVER use radiator clamps to hold steel L beam brackets to a Trylon
steel tower leg...

Microburst winds snapped the brackets right off the tower, shattering the
panel...

Hard lesson learned :(

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
wrote:

> Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar system
> good enough for our radios these days?
>
> Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors!
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>
>
>  >I bought two of the Northern Tool $79.00 15 watt panels, their $49.00
> > charge controller, a deep cycle marine battery from Walmart and built
> > my own.  So far, the "fully charged" light comes on every day.  The
> > battery should run my two radio repeater for more than a week.  Might
> > not be the club way to do it, but it works.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > At 11:09 PM 8/24/2009, you wrote:
> >>Hi All,
> >>
> >>Sorry for the cross post.  Time is short on this project and I need a lot
> >>of
> >>help.
> >>
> >>I've never done a solar project.  Never really even looked at them due to
> >>the costs I've seen tossed about.
> >>
> >>Now I have a customer that's willing to purchase the initial equipment
> >>needed to cover his community.  The ONLY way into the area is a hill
> >>that's
> >>within sight of my tower and NOT anywhere near power.
> >>
> >>I'll be able to just run a single MT board with two radios in it for this
> >>site.  One backhaul and 1 distribution.  I'll guess that I'll have less
> >>than
> >>a 2 amp draw (probably much less than 1 amp in reality).
> >>
> >>We don't often get long periods of no sun.  Could be days of fog or low
> >>clouds in the winter, but mostly we'll have a lot of sun.  On the foggy
> or
> >>cloudy days we often don't have enough wind to worry about wind
> >>generation.
> >>I think.
> >>
> >>So, please clue me in on what to buy, who to buy it from (vendors
> >>welcome!)
> >>and anything else I'm missing.
> >>
> >>Thanks all!
> >>marlon
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> >>
> >>
> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] source of install materials?

[AJ]

We typically buy quite a bit from Arris Telewire Supply
http://www.arrisistore.com/subcat.php?cat=N




On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Plexicomm Admin wrote:

> https://dthstore.com/
> Dan English
> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions
> d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103
> Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:51 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] source of install materials?
>
>
> > Any source for the following:
> >
> >
> >
> > Concrete cable clips
> >
> > Korn Clamps
> >
> > Hose clamps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gino A. Villarini
> > g...@aeronetpr.com
> > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> > tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Relay Control (Scada?)

[AJ]

You can "ham" it, using a DTMF controller at the site you're looking to
switch on & off, feeding audio to it off of a scanner or other inexpensive
radio receiver (or even a phone line), using a handheld or mobile radio at
the local site to send DTMF tones.

The control board is around $100, inexpensive receiver for less than $50 on
eBay, used mobile VHF radio for perhaps $100, programmed on MURS under
license-free operation or (gasp) perhaps FRS (no license) or GMRS
(inexpensive license).

http://nhrc.net/nhrc-remote-plus/index.php

I use a number of these here locally to control lighting on towers (i.e.
holiday seasons), backup power tests, remote unlock/locking of shelter
doors, etc.
-AJ

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> They also make pager based units  Pretty cool stuff.
>
> Lee with Hutton should know where to get them.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeremy Parr" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Relay Control (Scada?)
>
>
> > 2009/8/6  :
> >> Jeremy
> >>
> >> What is your available commnunications mediuym between sites?
> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > Wireless, wireless, and wireless. There is no IP path or hardware
> > connection at all. I am looking for something compact that can be
> > outdoor mounted, or crammed in to an enclosure, with an RF interface
> > built in. I am open to using an IP based device if I must, and adding
> > on a cheap wireless ethernet bridge, but would prefer an all in one
> > unit.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>



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