Re: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango

[Travis Johnson]

HI,

I have spoken to several other WISP's and when they actually compare the 
SAME radio from SAF to Trango (same power, same license keys, same 
dishes, etc.) then Trango is 99% of the time less expensive. Yes, it 
only has a 2 year warranty compared to 5 years, but that's the only 
difference.

And Trango is made in the USA, if that matters to anyone. :)

Travis

On 11/2/2012 9:01 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> Travis, I think your experience with Trango isn't shared by other
> WISPs.  Because of your relationship with them, they support you more
> than the "average" customer.  You get better pricing and support than
> the rest of us do.  A WISP just south of us has a similar relationship
> with Trango.  When we chat, he's say, "Oh, I just ordered a new radio
> from Trango for $X."  When I call the next day, my price is much
> higher than what he paid.
>
> At least with other manufactures, I can call different vendors to get pricing.
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Re: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango

[Travis Johnson]

When I have priced them before, SAF was the same price as Trango with 
their "standard power"... but when you increase to High Power then it's 
more expensive.

And SAF's 5 year warranty is very cool... the bigger question with this 
type of radio is how quickly can they repair/replace the unit? I just 
had water get into a Trango radio (due to improper installation), and I 
did a complete RMA process with Trango and had the radio back, fixed, in 
one week. That's from the day I submitted the request until I had the 
repaired radio back. :)

Travis
Microserv

On 11/2/2012 8:15 AM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> I don't understand, SAF has a standard power version and a high power
> version.  Cost difference isn't much.
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Re: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango

[Travis Johnson]

I'm curious about that as well... I know "weight" is a big thing for 
Gino due to shipping... but I'm not sure I would be willing to give up 
the higher output and better receive levels for a couple extra pounds.


Travis

On 11/2/2012 7:49 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Why are you doing all new links with SAF is the question being asked 
here.  I'm actually deciding on Trango vs SAF right now.  Once I start 
with one vendor I want to stick with it for all future links to reduce 
the different spares.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 8:44 AM, can...@believewireless.net 
 > wrote:


All things equal, SAF has a 5 year warranty and fantastic tech
support. We have both Trango and SAF in our network and now all new
links are SAF exclusively.
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Re: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango

[Travis Johnson]

Feature key is NOT required on Trango for more power. All the radios are 
at full power regardless of the license key.

Travis

On 11/2/2012 6:53 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> Having more than 20+ links on both manufactures here is my input:
>
> SAF Pluses
> Great UI Interface, simultaneous link config changes from 1 end/polarity 
> indicator
> Lightweight
> Low Power consumption
> Great mount
> No Feature keys
> 5 years warranty
>
> SAF Minuses
> Lower Tx power
> Custom Antenna - ODU interface
> No full poe
> Fiber interface is optional - not field changeable from SM,MM
> No OBM port
>
> Trango Pluses
> More Tx Power
> Remec ODU Interface
> Built in Surge Suppression / POE
> Field replaceable modem
> OBM Port
> Copper/Fiber Interfaces
>
> Trango Minuses
> Heavy
> UI interface not great, some changes require reboot
> Higher power consumption
> Feature keys required for more BW and extra power
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> 787.273.4143
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Bill Gaylord
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 8:20 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango
>
> Can anyone help me out?  We are in the process of deciding which company to 
> use for 6 licensed links.  Both are similar in price/performance.
> Trango has more tx power and rx sensitivity, thus their antennas are smaller, 
> which is a plus.  I would like to know if anyone has any experiences with 
> either company and their products.  I met both in Vegas, but there is only so 
> much real info you can get from Salespeople.  Please send any comments off 
> list as not to pollute the list with opinions on products.  If anyone would 
> like to also learn what I learn from the list, drop me an e-mail and I will 
> be happy to forward the opinions I get on to you as well. Thank you.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
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Re: [WISPA] SAF vs Trango

[Travis Johnson]

We have installed over 40 of the Trango links (in our network and for 
other companies). We install long links (some 18ghz links as far as 32 
miles), so the higher power output and better receive is a big plus for us.

Travis
Microserv

On 11/2/2012 6:20 AM, Bill Gaylord wrote:
> Can anyone help me out?  We are in the process of deciding which company
> to use for 6 licensed links.  Both are similar in price/performance.
> Trango has more tx power and rx sensitivity, thus their antennas are
> smaller, which is a plus.  I would like to know if anyone has any
> experiences with either company and their products.  I met both in
> Vegas, but there is only so much real info you can get from
> Salespeople.  Please send any comments off list as not to pollute the
> list with opinions on products.  If anyone would like to also learn what
> I learn from the list, drop me an e-mail and I will be happy to forward
> the opinions I get on to you as well. Thank you.
>
> Bill Gaylord, President
> COLI Inc.
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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti next product.... another router?

[Travis Johnson]

Sorry... I don't agree that Ubiquiti is in the same category as Cisco or 
Motorola. I have Cisco switches and routers with 5+ YEARS of uptime. My 
main Cisco switch is moving over 1500Mbps of graphic daily and has been 
up for over 2+ years.

We have had many Ubiquiti radios that if they have more than 100 days 
uptime, you have to reboot them BEFORE doing a firmware upgrade or else 
when they come back they won't pass traffic (even though they are 
connected via wireless).

Travis
Microserv

On 9/14/2012 9:42 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Greg,
> I don't ever recall seeing bleeding-edge firmware with bugs released
> from Ubiquiti unless you mean the betas?  But that's what they
> are... betas.   Since 5.3.3 up to the current 5.5.2 release I haven't
> had any problems with the final releases of software.
>
> I can't count the number of Linksys, DLink, Hawking, whatever wireless
> routers we've replaced for customers because they had problems with
> their Internet.  We put in a Power AP-N, or an AirRouter and we never
> hear from them again.
>
> Truth be told... Ubiquiti equipment just runs... it doesn't need
> rebooted.  It doesn't need babysat.  It just runs.
>
> No I am not being paid to make these statements.  I just have many years
> working in IT.  I've used Cisco, MikroTik, Alvarion, Motorola and now
> Ubiquiti.  The Ubiquiti equipment just works.  I have a backhaul that's
> been up for over a year with no reboots and no problems.
>
> Matt Hoppes
> Director of Information Technology
> Indigo Wireless
> +1 (570) 723-7312
>
> On 9/14/12 11:20 AM, Greg Ihnen wrote:
>> Are people going to be able to tolerate the bleeding-edge cycle of
>> bugs/firmware updates that has been the history with their wireless gear?
>>
>> Once again they're breaking new ground, this time with low cost/high pps
>> throughput. Will they be able to make it powerful (rich feature set)
>> /and/ easy?
>>
>> It's going to have to be really good to make people switch.
>>
>> Maybe they're going for a niche market of people who want only features
>> relevant to the WISP market (bandwidth management, bandwidth accounting
>> etc, vlans) and not people who want a do-all box like MT which has a lot
>> of features most WISPs probably don't use (BGP and the forwarding
>> protocols come to mind).
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Paolo Di Francesco
>> mailto:paolo.difrance...@level7.it>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi all
>>
>>  I see that Ubiquiti is launching a new product, a router.
>>
>>  Well, personally, I do not think that it's a good idea, hard market and
>>  I really do not see a real reason why I should buy the Ubiquiti router
>>  instead of other well knows products
>>
>>From my perspective the value or a core/edge router is not only in the
>>  number of packets, it's more into the number of bugs and instabilities.
>>
>>  A new product has less or more bugs/instabilities than others working
>>  since years in my network?
>>
>>  I am not sure that I want to restart thinking new workarounds for a new
>>  brand.
>>
>>  Comments?
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>>  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
>>
>>  Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale
>>
>>  Sede operativa: Largo Montalto, 5 - 90144 Palermo
>>
>>  C.F. e P.IVA  05940050825
>>  Fax : +39-091-8772072 
>>  assistenza: (+39) 091-8776432 
>>  web: http://www.level7.it
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Questions for those that have bought/sold WISPs

[Travis Johnson]

There is no set formula. This is a negotiation process you will have to 
deal with your other partners about. They can't "force" you out, and you 
can't demand a certain amount.


You would ask for a number (start high), and they will counter with a 
number (low), and you go back and forth until you both reach a number 
everyone is happy with. Think of it as buying/selling a house... your 
shares are worth what they are willing to pay for them.


Travis
Microserv

On 9/3/2012 11:15 AM, Nick W wrote:
I am a minority shareholder and am basically looking to sell out to my 
partner (a corporation). I know there has been a lot of discussion 
about valuing and selling WISPs over the years. It seems like the 
answers vary depending on equipment, customers, contracts, location, 
etc. The thing I see the most is selling for 1x, 1.5x, or 2x gross 
annual receipts, unless it is a failing company, in which case the 
number is dramatically lower.


The only real difference for me is that I own less shares than the 
other partner. Has anyone bought/sold minority shares of a WISP, and 
is there anything different about valuing that? I'm looking at selling 
back my shares and want to make sure they're getting valued correctly.


I have proposed 12-months gross receipts * my percentage. They are 
pushing for net revenue or gross profit - which are both net of 
expenses or net of cost of sales. I've never seen a net number used 
before - my dad sold his aerospace company about 15 years ago and used 
12-months gross receipts + cash on hand for his sale number. In 
addition to this number, there are enterprise customer contracts that 
have been signed but have not been fully deployed yet, and therefore 
are not reflected on the books - it seems like these should be added 
to the value as well.


On top of that, I am a co-signer on a line of credit for the company, 
how should that be handled? Has anyone dealt with that?


Thanks in advance for any input or advice you guys can provide.

Nick


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Re: [WISPA] Netflix to offer free caches to ISPs

[Travis Johnson]

The internet is free... don't you know that yet Doug? :)

Travis
Microserv


On 6/5/2012 9:43 AM, Doug Clark wrote:
I agree.  The problem is not the bandwidth from my headend, it is the 
last mile which is killing the deal for me.  This whole streaming 
video over the Internet
thing is absolutely insane!  With a bird (satellite) I can deliver 
content to 280 million people with just 6 gigs worth of data 
transfer.  If I do the same across the
Internet it will take 1.5279510989 zettabytes  Talk about total 
inefficiency!

/---Original Message---/
/*From:*/ Darin Steffl 
/*Date:*/ 6/5/2012 9:22:49 AM
/*To:*/ WISPA General List 
/*Subject:*/ Re: [WISPA] Netflix to offer free caches to ISPs
They require at least 2Gbps of Netflix traffic across your network at 
all time and require you connect the box to a 10Gbps port to our 
network. I really doubt there are many WISP's out there running this 
much Netflix traffic at one time. A few but nowhere near the majority. 
Also, for many of us, this probably isn't the problem of running out 
of internet transit but rather having AP's at capacity for which this 
would not solve at all.


On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Shaddi Hasan > wrote:

I just came across this article on Netflix's plans to start running
their own CDN. They're going to be offering free peering at a few
IXPs, and are offering free cache appliances for ISPs with large
amounts of traffic.

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/the_business_of_online_vi/2012/06/netflix-announces-new-content-delivery-network-offering-free-caches-to-isps.html

More information from Netflix itself is here:
https://signup.netflix.com/openconnect

Does anyone here plan to pursue this? How much would something like
this actually resolve your Netflix issues, or is the bottleneck inside
your network rather than at the access link?
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Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps+ BH Solutions.

[Travis Johnson]

So they crammed five Rockets into a single case? LOL

Travis


On 3/16/2012 1:39 PM, wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
> It is widely suspected that UBNT is announcing a gigabit licensed link next 
> week.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Forbes Mercy"
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:07:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps+ BH Solutions.
>
>
> I'm just curious what is keeping MT or UBNT out of the licensed low cost 
> radio business? Is it FCC Certification because it surely can't be quality of 
> equipment reasons?
>
> Happy Friday and St. Patty's Day,
>
> Forbes
>
> On 3/16/2012 7:11 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Licensed 11ghz with 2ft to 4ft dishes. $15,000 per hop.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 3/16/2012 7:52 AM, Ryan Ghering wrote:
>
> I need any vendors on the list to please contact me on any of their offerings
> for short to medium distance 1 to 6 miles solutions for BH of 100Mbps to 
> 1Gbps.
>
>
> I need quotes for full installs of these listed hops.
>
>
> Hop 1: 2 miles
> Hop 2: 2.8 miles
> Hop 3: 5.6 miles
> Hop 4: 2.6 miles
> Hop 5: 2.6 miles
>
>
> Freq can be anything OTHER than 2.4 or 5.8
>
>
> Please call my Cell listed below.
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps+ BH Solutions.

[Travis Johnson]

I'm not doing it... I just put a number out there so he could realize 
there is way more to it than posting a distance. :)

Travis

On 3/16/2012 8:18 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> You're going to have a hell of an installation when you find that 6
> mile link is between two rohn 25 at 10 feet!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Licensed 11ghz with 2ft to 4ft dishes. $15,000 per hop.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/16/2012 7:52 AM, Ryan Ghering wrote:
>>
>> I need any vendors on the list to please contact me on any of their
>> offerings
>> for short to medium distance 1 to 6 miles solutions for BH of 100Mbps to
>> 1Gbps.
>>
>> I need quotes for full installs of these listed hops.
>>
>> Hop 1: 2 miles
>> Hop 2: 2.8 miles
>> Hop 3: 5.6 miles
>> Hop 4: 2.6 miles
>> Hop 5: 2.6 miles
>>
>> Freq can be anything OTHER than 2.4 or 5.8
>>
>> Please call my Cell listed below.
>>
>> --
>> Ryan Ghering
>> Network Operations - Plains.Net
>> Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps+ BH Solutions.

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Licensed 11ghz with 2ft to 4ft dishes. $15,000 per hop.

Travis


On 3/16/2012 7:52 AM, Ryan Ghering wrote:
I need any vendors on the list to please contact me on any of their 
offerings
for short to medium distance 1 to 6 miles solutions for BH of 100Mbps 
to 1Gbps.


I need quotes for full installs of these listed hops.

Hop 1: 2 miles
Hop 2: 2.8 miles
Hop 3: 5.6 miles
Hop 4: 2.6 miles
Hop 5: 2.6 miles

Freq can be anything OTHER than 2.4 or 5.8

Please call my Cell listed below.

--
Ryan Ghering
Network Operations - Plains.Net
Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879


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Re: [WISPA] Advertising ARIN IPs via BGP

[Travis Johnson]

This is the reason that AT&T costs more and Windstream (which I have 
never heard of until this message) is cheap. You get what you pay for... 
a company with real tech support and engineers that know what they are 
doing and get it done, and some "other" company that doesn't. :)

Travis
Microserv

On 1/26/2012 8:00 PM, Roger Howard wrote:
> Two months ago, we received a /21 direct allocation of IPv4 addresses from 
> ARIN.
>
> We have two geographically diverse upstream providers. One is AT&T.
> The other is Windstream.
>
> The Windstream circuit is considerably cheaper per meg, than the AT&T
> circuit. We are wanting to do away with AT&T.
>
> After receiving the IP allocation, we added it to our BGP configs, and
> contacted AT&T and Windstream to have the block advertised out to the
> Internet. AT&T got it dealt with within a few days and traffic to
> those IPs started flowing in. Windstream we have been fighting with
> for two+ months to get it done.
>
> It's costing us thousands of dollars per month, since we can't do away
> with the AT&T circuit until Windstream bring traffic in via their
> circuit to these IPs.
>
> Windstream say they are awaiting on AT&T in order to be able to
> advertise them. Can anyone explain to me why this could be the case?
> What does AT&T have to do with weather I can advertise an IP block via
> windstream or not?
>
> Thanks,
> Roger
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] BridgeMaxx Status

[Travis Johnson]

Every day. Always.

On 12/17/2011 11:59 AM, Scott Reed wrote:
> I just had a friend call wondering if BridgeMaxx was having issues.
> Issues as in their phone in 1 city is apparently disconnected and in
> another just rings forever.  Since he has their service and it is out,
> he was wondering what is going on.
> Any one heard anything about BridgeMaxx problems this week?
>



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

[Travis Johnson]

I think WISPAPALOOZA needs to be $399 or $499 next year, then give 
multiple employee discounts.


Travis
Microserv

On 11/3/2011 6:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
That brings up another point. WISPAPALOOZA was a couple hundred bucks. 
Most conferences are $1,000+. VMWorld was like $1300.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


On 11/3/2011 10:29 AM, David Sovereen wrote:
Shafty really?  How much are they charging for the event?  Zero, 
except that you need to book through them, and they derive some 
revenue through the booking.  How much was registration to 
Wispapalooza?  How much is registration to Animal Farm?


The policy seems fair to me.

I suppose they could charge an event registration fee of ___ for 
persons who booked through another means, which might help Ralph's 
situation, but I don't think Double Radius' position is without merit.


Dave



*From*: "Andy Trimmell" 
*Sent*: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:09 AM
*To*: "WISPA General List" 
*Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

+1 for pretty shafty!

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

That's pretty shafty!

Regards,

Chuck



On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:58 PM, rwf  wrote:
> I will be on the cruise, but Double Radius is refusing to allow me to
> participate because I got my room through an employee discount and not
their
> travel agent.
>
> If you want to meet up or talk, then the only thing I know is for you
to
> leave me a note or voice mail for cabin 0004.
>
>
>
> Ralph
>
> Brightlan.net
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

[Travis Johnson]

This is my 3rd time on this cruise... I go to get away from it all, and 
have something in common with people on board... it's not the "ideal" 
cruise for me (the plane tickets cost more than the entire cruise)... 
but I enjoy going and hanging out with people that I already know.


And it forces me to "disconnect" for 4 days, which I need once a year. :)

Travis
Microserv

On 11/3/2011 11:43 AM, rwf wrote:


The vendors pay for this stuff, not DR. And the room class I chose was 
not 279.00. I prefer not to sleep in the engine room.


And we are a pretty regular and profitable customer to DR.

You know, if I were in their shoes, I would do what is required to 
keep a happy customer.


Next year I plan to go to the WISPA conference and skip this thing. I 
can hear sales pitches any time. The reason I go is to network with 
you guys anyway!


*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 12:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

The most interesting part is the cruise was only $279 per person. How 
much cheaper could he have gotten it with an employee discount? And 
how much would DR have to charge to allow this person into all the 
sessions/keynotes/afterhours free drinks/etc.?


Travis


On 11/3/2011 10:02 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

I would think if the guy was one of your customers and specifically 
went on the cruise to be a part of the show, then you could let it 
slide or at least have a door price. It seems to me a little good will 
for someone who helps support you all year is in order. And as to 
others attending, I say charge a door price and let them come if they 
really want. I doubt there would be a lot of takers.


On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Chuck Hogg <mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:


I see your point and agree.

Regards,

Chuck




On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, David Sovereen
mailto:david.sover...@mercury.net>> wrote:
> Shafty really?  How much are they charging for the event?  Zero, 
except that

> you need to book through them, and they derive some revenue through the
> booking.  How much was registration to Wispapalooza?  How much is
> registration to Animal Farm?
>
> The policy seems fair to me.
>
> I suppose they could charge an event registration fee of ___ for 
persons who

> booked through another means, which might help Ralph's situation, but I
> don't think Double Radius' position is without merit.
>
> Dave
>
>
> 
> From: "Andy Trimmell" <mailto:atrimm...@precisionds.com>>

> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:09 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>

> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>
> +1 for pretty shafty!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] On

> Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:09 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>
> That's pretty shafty!
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:58 PM, rwf <mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org>> wrote:

>> I will be on the cruise, but Double Radius is refusing to allow me to
>> participate because I got my room through an employee discount and not
> their
>> travel agent.
>>
>> If you want to meet up or talk, then the only thing I know is for you
> to
>> leave me a note or voice mail for cabin 0004.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> Brightlan.net
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> 
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> 
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> Archives: http://lists.wis

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

[Travis Johnson]

$139/night? The "standard" cabins were $279 for all 4 nights.

Travis


On 11/3/2011 10:29 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> I know I checked on the cruise for myself, and with my timeshare
> discounts it was $139/night (or free if I transferred some of my
> timeshare in) in a much better room, not the base room.  When I asked
> DR if I could pay an at the door reg fee, they said no.
>
> I decided not to go since I just got back from Vegas...too many things
> going on to leave another week...not because of their response.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> The most interesting part is the cruise was only $279 per person. How much
>> cheaper could he have gotten it with an employee discount? And how much
>> would DR have to charge to allow this person into all the
>> sessions/keynotes/afterhours free drinks/etc.?
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 11/3/2011 10:02 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>> I would think if the guy was one of your customers and specifically went on
>> the cruise to be a part of the show, then you could let it slide or at least
>> have a door price. It seems to me a little good will for someone who helps
>> support you all year is in order. And as to others attending, I say charge a
>> door price and let them come if they really want. I doubt there would be a
>> lot of takers.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>> I see your point and agree.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, David Sovereen
>>>   wrote:
>>>> Shafty really?  How much are they charging for the event?  Zero, except
>>>> that
>>>> you need to book through them, and they derive some revenue through the
>>>> booking.  How much was registration to Wispapalooza?  How much is
>>>> registration to Animal Farm?
>>>>
>>>> The policy seems fair to me.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they could charge an event registration fee of ___ for persons
>>>> who
>>>> booked through another means, which might help Ralph's situation, but I
>>>> don't think Double Radius' position is without merit.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> From: "Andy Trimmell"
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:09 AM
>>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>>>>
>>>> +1 for pretty shafty!
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:09 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>>>>
>>>> That's pretty shafty!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:58 PM, rwf  wrote:
>>>>> I will be on the cruise, but Double Radius is refusing to allow me to
>>>>> participate because I got my room through an employee discount and not
>>>> their
>>>>> travel agent.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to meet up or talk, then the only thing I know is for you
>>>> to
>>>>> leave me a note or voice mail for cabin 0004.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> Brightlan.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA 

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits

[Travis Johnson]

The most interesting part is the cruise was only $279 per person. How 
much cheaper could he have gotten it with an employee discount? And how 
much would DR have to charge to allow this person into all the 
sessions/keynotes/afterhours free drinks/etc.?


Travis


On 11/3/2011 10:02 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
I would think if the guy was one of your customers and specifically 
went on the cruise to be a part of the show, then you could let it 
slide or at least have a door price. It seems to me a little good will 
for someone who helps support you all year is in order. And as to 
others attending, I say charge a door price and let them come if they 
really want. I doubt there would be a lot of takers.


On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Chuck Hogg > wrote:


I see your point and agree.

Regards,

Chuck



On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, David Sovereen
mailto:david.sover...@mercury.net>>
wrote:
> Shafty really?  How much are they charging for the event?  Zero,
except that
> you need to book through them, and they derive some revenue
through the
> booking.  How much was registration to Wispapalooza?  How much is
> registration to Animal Farm?
>
> The policy seems fair to me.
>
> I suppose they could charge an event registration fee of ___ for
persons who
> booked through another means, which might help Ralph's
situation, but I
> don't think Double Radius' position is without merit.
>
> Dave
>
>
> 
> From: "Andy Trimmell" mailto:atrimm...@precisionds.com>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:09 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>
> +1 for pretty shafty!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org

[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
] On
> Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:09 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Without Limits
>
> That's pretty shafty!
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:58 PM, rwf mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org>> wrote:
>> I will be on the cruise, but Double Radius is refusing to allow
me to
>> participate because I got my room through an employee discount
and not
> their
>> travel agent.
>>
>> If you want to meet up or talk, then the only thing I know is
for you
> to
>> leave me a note or voice mail for cabin 0004.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> Brightlan.net
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>


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Re: [WISPA] Who Knows eRate

[Travis Johnson]

eRate is used if you are selling services to the school (like internet 
access, or even just "transport" between their own schools, etc.).


Travis


On 10/29/2011 10:02 AM, Eric Rogers wrote:


Who knows eRate on this list?  We have an opportunity to rent fiber to 
provide a connection to our tower site using an asset the school owns, 
but because this is a technology asset, doesn't it qualify under e-rate?


Also, what I have read, if the school incurs income because of it, 
don't they have to reduce their e-rate funding by the same amount?


Eric Rogers

Precision Data Solutions, LLC

(317) 831-3000 x200





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Rocket M5 Throughput

[Travis Johnson]

Turn AirMax on.

Travis

On 10/24/2011 1:36 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr wrote:


What is the best real TCP throughput up/down anyone is getting on a 
PtP ubnt connection?  We have two rocket M5 approx 1.5 mi, CCQ 97-98%, 
40mhz channel width, airmax off.


Displayed TX/RX rate is 270/270.  Real TCP throughput via iperf radio 
to radio is 40-45mbps.


Are there some config changes needed perhaps?





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Re: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

[Travis Johnson]

WHAT? I was really looking forward to chatting with you... better hire 
someone to take your place for a while so you can come... :)


Travis
Microserv


On 10/1/2011 9:41 PM, Charles Wu wrote:


Unfortunately, I just found out that I'm not going to be able to go =(

-Charles

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - Lists

*Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2011 7:07 PM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

I don't care for Vegas, but I can't wait to see everyone!

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream Sales Manager
800-813-5123 x106



*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman

*Sent:* Friday, September 30, 2011 6:42 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

Who is excited?!

If you haven't gotten your preparations ready, do them NOW!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3929 - Release Date: 09/30/11





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT

[Travis Johnson]

But can you play WoW on your smartphone? :)

Travis

On 9/24/2011 5:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I agree, but I can get more throughput on my phone in metro Chicago 
than is available in most rural areas. I have topped 8 megs. My friend 
has topped 20 megs on his in metro Chicago.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


On 9/23/2011 5:53 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:


Mobile wireless systems cannot deliver the speeds and network 
performance that is needed to take full advantage of 
broadband.Smartphones and mobile wireless networks have their places, 
but they are not, and will never be, a substitute for a fixed 
wireless or wireline broadband system.


Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

On 9/23/2011 3:25 PM, Robert Canary wrote:

True. However, one buys the better "longer-lasting" gear, at a significant 
price increase.  And within the 2 years {just as they get it all paid for}, the demand 
changes, the new systems work faster, and you end up spending all your business putting 
money into the manufactures and retailer's pockets.  I have been doing this for 12 years. 
 Trust me . spend your big bucks on the backhaul systems and internal infrastructure. 
 Go absolutely as cheap as you can for access points and CPE.

In another 10 years it will not matter anyway.  *Everything* will be done 
through you're cell phone.  Blue tooth to your laptop and to the internet you 
go @ 4Meg speeds.

Robert Canary
OCDirect Electrical-Datacomm
(866) 594-0786 Fax
(270) 955-0362 Voice

- Original Message -

There are other considerations besides cost.  It's important to
consider total cost of ownership. What devices cost you the least to
put up?  How does that square up with longevity?  What causes the
fewest repeat truck rolls and gives the greatest customer experience?
How does it scale across a large network?

Thanks,

Chris Cooper

On Sep 23, 2011, at 4:30 PM,jch...@tritontelephone.com  wrote:


I'm not knocking motorola. It has it's place. (god knows I loved my
startac:) but for the money ubnt makes Norte sense.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Robert Canary

wrote:
I know this is bogus.  I ran Motorola and it was the worst system
I
had ever deployed.  I thought I was doing great, until I started
runnng AirSpan and Alvarion.  It wasn't long I was on the phone
selling *all* my motorola to my competitors.

Robert Canary
OCDirect Electrical-Datacomm
(866) 594-0786 Fax
(270) 955-0362 Voice

- Original Message -

Here is a radio comparison test done at the last animal farm.

www.linktechs.net/AF2011_Bakeoff.pdf

Jim

-Original Message-
From:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 12:05 PM
To:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT

Which UBNT 2.4 or 5.7 radios will do 45MB duplex over two miles.
Thanks
Akinlolu C. Ajayi-Obe
AS Technologies Ltd
Tel. 234(0)8023258027


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Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3914 - Release Date:
09/23/11


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Re: [WISPA] Rack Mount POE Injector

[Travis Johnson]

12 port is here:

http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=TP-NCMS312-24&eq=&Tp=

Travis


On 9/15/2011 4:38 PM, Matt wrote:
> Looking for a rack mount POE injector that supports Ubiquiti at 24
> volts.  Anyone know of anything?  Would like around 16 ports.
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Press Release

[Travis Johnson]

 Microserv, Inc Reaches
 10,000 Subscriber Milestone

September 1, 2011

Microserv, Inc. announced today that the company has reached a 
subscriber milestone by surpassing 10,000 active internet subscribers. 
This number of subscribers is an exciting number for privately owned 
companies serving rural America with high-speed internet services.


Travis Johnson, Microserv CEO stated "This has been my goal for the last 
ten years. Reaching this number of subscribers in the rural markets we 
serve is a great accomplishment. The entire company is proud that we 
have grown to this size, and continue to grow each and every month."


Johnson added "Our services areas are some of the most competitive in 
the nation, and we incur some of the highest expenses in the nation. We 
have grown because of our superior customer service. We answer every 
incoming call during business hours with a live person. No auto 
attendants, no voicemail. We listen to our customers and they value that 
kind of service."


*About Microserv*

Microserv is a regional provider of internet access services covering 
all of southeastern Idaho and parts of Wyoming. Microserv is a member of 
the Wireless Internet Service Provider's Association (WISPA), and was 
awarded the 2007 WISP Operator of the Year.


Microserv has over 14 years of experience as a fixed wireless and 
wireline provider. Services offered include fixed wireless, DSL, fiber 
optic and domain hosting. Microserv currently has over 95 tower 
locations and covers over 25,000 square miles of southeastern Idaho and 
parts of Wyoming. The entire network is owned and maintained by 
Microserv with no use of any outside vendors for backhaul or maintenance.


Microserv is a privately held Idaho corporation with no outside 
investors or capital. It has never applied or received any type of 
local, state or federal government loan, grant, subsidy or stimulus 
money and has been profitable since the incorporation in 1997.


For more information about Microserv, visit www.microserv.com 
<http://www.cticonnect.com>.





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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti GPS

[Travis Johnson]

Canopy.

On 8/25/2011 7:25 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:


On Ubiquiti???

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 25, 2011 9:23 AM, "Travis Johnson" <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
> I have AP's with 85+ without issues. I know my competition has AP's 
with

> 120+ on them.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> On 8/25/2011 7:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> I wouldn't want 60 customers on an AP.
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/25/2011 8:16 AM, Matt wrote:
>>>> I am seeing the 5.4.3 improve things on point to multi point.
>>> How well does Ubiquiti handle PtmP? We have some Canopy AP's with 60+
>>> users. Heard that since Ubiquiti uses a wifi chipset they cannot
>>> handle this kind of traffic?
>>>
>>>
>>> 


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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti GPS

[Travis Johnson]

I have AP's with 85+ without issues. I know my competition has AP's with 
120+ on them.

Travis
Microserv

On 8/25/2011 7:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> I wouldn't want 60 customers on an AP.
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 8/25/2011 8:16 AM, Matt wrote:
>>>  I am seeing the 5.4.3 improve things on point to multi point.
>> How well does Ubiquiti handle PtmP?  We have some Canopy AP's with 60+
>> users.  Heard that since Ubiquiti uses a wifi chipset they cannot
>> handle this kind of traffic?
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Catalyst for BGP

[Travis Johnson]

Why not just use a Cisco router then? Lots of used, cheap Cisco stuff on 
ebay... :)


Travis


On 7/30/2011 11:26 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:


Yes, we have considered others, would like a HW platform that has many 
support options... Cisco is well documented and you can get someone to 
help out easily


Gino A. Villarini

g...@aeronetpr.com 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

787.273.4143

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Bryan Fields

*Sent:* Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:21 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Catalyst for BGP

On 7/29/2011 16:02, Gino Villarini wrote:

Ebgp full routes, what is suitable in Catalyst world?


Short of the 6500 with a sup 720-3bxl, not much.  The 7600 is really 
where you need to be if you want full tables on a chassis platform 
though, as cisco removed quite a bit of routing features from the 6500 
code line.


Keep in mind, they will do 512k of routes in the FIB, but that's IPv4 
only.  So if you have MPLS, v6 and other stuff running, expect that 
number to be much lower.   Per the latest cidr report, the routing 
table is 369k now.


Have you considered other vendors?  ALU and juniper have some great 
mid size routers with excellent BGP/routing support.


--
*Bryan Fields*
*APAC Imports LLC*
Phone: 800-721-6502
Fax: 727-493-1511
http://apacimports.com





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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti

[Travis Johnson]

We have AP's using 10mhz channel size with 40+ customers and not seeing 
that problem.

Travis
Microserv


On 7/6/2011 11:11 AM, Pat Nix wrote:
> We are starting to notice an evident limitation with ubiquiti's polling
> method.  It seems that when we have more than about 15 or so subs on an AP
> (M2) we start seeing extremely low upload from the sub (100-300mbps) even
> when the sub has almost perfect signal -40db.  AP are running 10Mhz wide
> channel width and are running AirMax.  Is anyone familiar with this issue
> and is there some kind of workaround.  We are looking at deploying some
> M3.65 equipment but are leery if we are going to have the same problem.  Any
> thoughts?
>
> Pat
> CSWEB.NET
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] UBNT files $200M IPO

[Travis Johnson]

Ever radio we have sent back for RMA we have gotten a replacement (brand 
new) radio within 2 weeks. We just follow the normal, published 
procedures on the website.


Travis
Microserv

On 6/26/2011 11:23 AM, Tom Sharples wrote:
Maybe you're a bigger fish in their pond Rick, but I can only go from 
my own experience. For example if you look at the forums, you'll see a 
posting of mine from about two weeks ago, asking for help identifying 
a 900Mhz Ubnt card based on the MAC address. Never got an answer 
(except from another user who apparently didn't know) even tho I 
separately sent an urgent email (6-14-2011, 9:34 AM) directly to Mike 
Ford. No response.  Last year, I sent a pair of DOA 2.4Ghz 
nanostations in for RMA. Never heard back - they seem to have 
vanished. And it ain't just me: 
http://www.ubnt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12389
Now I appreciate Ben's posting - and I will follow up with him - but I 
should not have to post out here to get service.


Tom S.


On 6/26/2011 6:25 AM, Stuart Pierce wrote:

I've always had good, really almost unquestionable, RMA response. They are very 
active in their forums and at times provide a flurry of emails even over the 
weekends. But what do I know, I only have a credibility of 3 on the forums.

;)

-- Original Message --
From: RickG
Reply-To: WISPA General List
Date:  Sat, 25 Jun 2011 00:02:24 -0400


The forums are good and then you got Ben :)

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Ben Moore  wrote:


Hi Tom,

Please advise what RMA's you are having trouble with.  Send to me here:
ben.mo...@ubnt.com.  Our RMA process is typically very good (we have heard
from many customers that it is one of the better in the industry).  Let me
know RMA #'s and will look into this.  Sorry for the trouble you have
experienced.

Regards,
Ben

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Tom Sharpleswrote:


It is interesting. But I am just astonished that a company with annual
sales
in excess of $100M can't do a better job of supporting their customers.
Relying on the forum and a couple of overworked CSRs is just ridiculous. I
still can't get answers to my emails or returns of RMA'd items.

Tom S.

- Original Message -
From: "Jeromie Reeves"
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT files $200M IPO



That was a very interesting read.

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Mike Hammett
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2011/06/20/ubiquiti-networks-files-200m-ipo.html

--


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com








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Re: [WISPA] electro-comm or?????

[Travis Johnson]

These places are probably tired of people calling and getting free 
advise and support and then having people buy elsewhere.

Buy it and try it. That's my motto.

Travis


On 6/16/2011 5:19 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote:
> Anyone else miss having these guys around?
>
> Know where the guys landed?
>
> I called Tessco the other day for advice on antennas for an application.
> They wanted to charge me for help in picking out a product that I intended
> to purchase from them!  ug
>
> It would be great to be able to talk to Mark, Tee, Lee etc. when I want to
> try out a new product or just want to experiment with something different
> than what I normally use today.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] [WISPAOLD] Licensed 11ghz Hops

[Travis Johnson]

When you do the license, you get two 40mhz channels.

The frequency coordinator will take care of all that, once you apply for 
the license.


Travis
Microserv


On 5/14/2011 10:27 AM, Scott Carullo wrote:
Below is part of a conversation from last November.  Josh mentions the 
SAF Lumina using 50Mhz channels for 325Mb FDX.  For FCC in the US 
40Mhz channel is the largest that can be used right?  Just want to 
verify my understanding and make sure there isn't a way to do this in 
the US




Thanks

Scott Carullo

Technical Operations

855-FLSPEED x102








*From*: "Brad Belton" 

*Sent*: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:10 PM

*To*: "WISPA General List" 

*Subject*: Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops



You coordinate two paths.  We have a Trango GigaLINK 6GHz link using 
two radio pairs and a combiner plate attaching to one antenna on each 
end.  One radio set is V the other is H.  Gives us twice the capacity 
(165MB x 2) plus failover in the event one ODU or IDU fails plus 
Frequency diversity for higher overall availability.


Best,

Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman


*Sent:* Friday, November 05, 2010 2:07 PM

*To:* WISPA General List

*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Licensed 11ghz Hops

Not sure where dual polarities come in to play with licensed gear.  I 
know that your PCN strictly states V or H.




The SAF CFIP Lumina uses 50Mhz one way and 50Mhz the other way to get 
full duplex.  Each channel with 256qam does 325mbps.




Josh Luthman

Office: 937-552-2340

Direct: 937-552-2343

1100 Wayne St

Suite 1337

Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Matt > wrote:


How long has Exalt been doing licensed gear?  Is it pretty good gear?

Does SAF allow you to use a dual polarity dish in 11ghz and bond both

polarities for additional bandwidth?  Can both polarities be done on

the same channel?






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Re: [WISPA] New self-supporting tower

[Travis Johnson]

Cost for just the tower?

Travis
Microserv


On 4/25/2011 4:46 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


You wanna look at American Tower http://www.amertower.com 



We just put up one of their Standard Duty 120 footers. About half the 
cost of Rohn and I think it's a better built tower. Wind loading specs 
were higher on them too than the Rohn.


Kurt Fankhauser

Wavelinc Communications

http://www.wavelinc.com

P.O. Box126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

Sent from Microsoft Outlook



*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Kevin Sullivan

*Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2011 5:57 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] New self-supporting tower

Hello,

We're looking for a 150' free standing tower. Who do you guys go 
to for those? We've only really used Rohn in the past, and they don't 
really seem to have those.


Kevin





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Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch recommendation

[Travis Johnson]

Why would you need GigE for the phones? Or are you running the PC's off 
the phones as well? We keep the PC and phone on separate networks entirely.

Travis
Microserv


On 4/25/2011 9:41 AM, Jason Hensley wrote:
> The one I'm looking at has all 24 ports 10/100/1000.
>
> Appreciate this one too though - for the price
> difference we may stick with 10/100 for now
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> > From: Travis Johnson[mailto:t...@ida.net]
> Sent: 4/25/2011 10:39:20 AM
> To  : wireless@wispa.org
> Cc  :
> Subject : RE: Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch
> recommendation
>
>   Sorry guess the one I got was a little different:
>
>   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122177
>
> Not sure what's different about this one vs. yours...
> other than double
> the price. :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> On 4/25/2011 9:24 AM, ja...@hensleycrew.com wrote:
>> We like that one, and I've always had good luck with
>> Netgear, but also open to other suggestions.  Where
>> did you get it for $350?  Cheapest I can find is in
>> the $600 range...
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>>  From: Travis Johnson[ mailto:t...@ida.net ]
>> Sent: 4/25/2011 10:19:42 AM
>> To  : wireless@wispa.org
>> Cc  :
>> Subject : RE: Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch
>> recommendation
>>
>>Why not the Netgear switch you listed? We just
>> installed one and it
>> seems to work great, especially for $350 for 24 ports
>> that are PoE, with
>> GigE uplinks.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> On 4/25/2011 9:11 AM, ja...@hensleycrew.com wrote:
>>> I know this is slightly OT, but anyone have a
>>> recommendation for a 24-port POE switch - similar to
>>> the NETGEAR GS724TP-100NAS, or possibly two 8-port
>>> switches.  Prefer something managed but not 100%
>>> necessary.  Will be used to run POE powered VoIP
>>> phones primarily.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch recommendation

[Travis Johnson]

Sorry guess the one I got was a little different:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122177

Not sure what's different about this one vs. yours... other than double 
the price. :)

Travis
Microserv

On 4/25/2011 9:24 AM, ja...@hensleycrew.com wrote:
> We like that one, and I've always had good luck with
> Netgear, but also open to other suggestions.  Where
> did you get it for $350?  Cheapest I can find is in
> the $600 range...
>
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> > From: Travis Johnson[mailto:t...@ida.net]
> Sent: 4/25/2011 10:19:42 AM
> To  : wireless@wispa.org
> Cc  :
> Subject : RE: Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch
> recommendation
>
>   Why not the Netgear switch you listed? We just
> installed one and it
> seems to work great, especially for $350 for 24 ports
> that are PoE, with
> GigE uplinks.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> On 4/25/2011 9:11 AM, ja...@hensleycrew.com wrote:
>> I know this is slightly OT, but anyone have a
>> recommendation for a 24-port POE switch - similar to
>> the NETGEAR GS724TP-100NAS, or possibly two 8-port
>> switches.  Prefer something managed but not 100%
>> necessary.  Will be used to run POE powered VoIP
>> phones primarily.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>   http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>
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Re: [WISPA] 24port POE switch recommendation

[Travis Johnson]

Why not the Netgear switch you listed? We just installed one and it 
seems to work great, especially for $350 for 24 ports that are PoE, with 
GigE uplinks.

Travis
Microserv


On 4/25/2011 9:11 AM, ja...@hensleycrew.com wrote:
> I know this is slightly OT, but anyone have a
> recommendation for a 24-port POE switch - similar to
> the NETGEAR GS724TP-100NAS, or possibly two 8-port
> switches.  Prefer something managed but not 100%
> necessary.  Will be used to run POE powered VoIP
> phones primarily.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW - update

[Travis Johnson]

The other question is how much do you pay for the service? It all comes 
down to price.

I can deliver 10Mbps x 10Mbps up to 300Mbps x 300Mbps to anyone that 
wants it... however, most people don't want to pay for it... ;)

Travis
Microserv


On 4/5/2011 5:37 AM, Charles Wu wrote:
> It's generally known that the 20 Mb "burst" given by cable companies is 
> throttled to sustained download speeds in the 1-3 Mb range
>
> That said, the point I'm trying to make is that the technology has come so 
> far for mobile cellular data that we are now "unconsciously" comparing it 
> side-by-side to fixed terrestrial broadband technologies (think of it this 
> way, how many WISPs can deliver "up-to" speeds of 8-10 Mb to a low power 
> handset in the middle of a concrete building 3+ miles away from a tower)
>
> -Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of St. Louis Broadband
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:33 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW - update
>
> I just checked my Charter via Ookla and it said I was getting 20 Mbps down
> and 1 Mbps up, horse pucky.
> I only get that in speedtests and never when I have to upload or download a
> big file via FTP or whatever.
> It generally gets throttled to dial up speeds or worse.
>
> ~V~
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wu
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW - update
>
> Sitting in my living room at 8 pm3 bars, laptop connected to wireless
> router on phone
>
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1236758959.png
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 6:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW
>
> Yeah, its nice when a product is brand new, and you get the whole sector all
>
> to yourself.
>
> I guess, its amazing that you are getting the speed to a handset, without
> the big antenna outside.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles Wu"
> To:; "WISPA GeneralList"
> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW
>
>
>> It is my understanding that Verizon is deploying an FDD version of LTE
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 11:09 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW
>>
>> most of the test are "half duplex" tests. In few words, they do one
>> direction, then the other direction (e.g. first the customer download,
>> then the customer upload).
>>
>> Suppose you have a 10Mb half duplex: the test will tell you that you
>> have 10Mb in one direction and 10Mb in the other direction. Then you use
>> the connection in 10Mb full duplex and you will discover the story is
>> totally different ;)
>>
>> Also, yes it's interesting to see what is happening on the network
>> interface when the test is running...
>>
>>> Do a real test and report back, like FTP. Ookla&  Speedtest.net test are
>>> bogus 99.9% percent of the time because it's based on screwy test
>>> algorithms.
>>>
>>> On 04/01/2011 11:05 PM, Charles Wu wrote:
 Just got my HTC Thunderbolt, and Ookla tested 20 Mb down, 24 Mb up at
 Speedtest.Net to my handset



 -Charles





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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
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>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
>>
>> Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale
>>
>> Sede operativa: Largo Montalto, 5 - 90144 Palermo
>>
>> C.F. e P.IVA  05940050825
>> Fax : +39-091-8772072
>> assistenza: (+39) 091-8776432
>> web: http://www.level7.it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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>>
> --

Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW

[Travis Johnson]

But then nobody in your household could be on the internet unless you 
were home...


Travis


On 4/3/2011 8:12 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


Since the kids discovered Netflix, my main Comcast broadband 
connection has gotten completely trashed and is unusable


Included with the Thunderbolt is free MiFi router capability – so you 
can use your computer connection through it (which I now do when the 
kids are using Netflix)


Since I’m personally not a very heavy user (just doing VPN for work at 
home) if it wasn’t for streaming video, I’d probably just cancel comcast


-Charles

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Forbes Mercy

*Sent:* Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:17 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Verizon 4G LTE - WOW

I used a new Thunderbolt in Orlando during the CTIA show where Verizon 
turned up their 4G.  Speedtest.net gave a 9MB download and 38MB upload 
but when I went to run Pandora, it warned me it couldn't play the 
higher quality stream so basically it was an impressive 32byte ping 
but fell on it's face once you used it.  Unimpressed, that's why I 
refer to cell phone Internet as "Play Internet"


Forbes

On 4/2/2011 8:53 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

I'm sure its not loaded like the 3G system is here. Was fast the first 
day. Now not much.



Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 2, 2011, at 6:22 AM, Bret Clark > wrote:


Do a real test and report back, like FTP. Ookla & Speedtest.net
 test are bogus 99.9% percent of the time
because it's based on screwy test algorithms.

On 04/01/2011 11:05 PM, Charles Wu wrote:

Just got my HTC Thunderbolt, and Ookla tested 20 Mb down, 24 Mb up
at Speedtest.Net  to my handset

-Charles

  

  

  





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Re: [WISPA] Indoor N Mikrotik Router

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Do they require a CAT5 run to each AP, or are they repeaters as well?

Travis


On 3/6/2011 11:41 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote:


Does it need to be MikroTik?

I just installed 8 UniFi AP's and the coverage is outstanding. The 
centralized control and information software puts it in a different class.


- Jerry

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson

*Sent:* Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:34 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] Indoor N Mikrotik Router

Are there any companies making an indoor Wireless N solution based 
upon Mikrotik?  I have a need for some indoor N series routers. Have 
been deploying the Netgear N300, but need an AP which supports POE for 
a few places.  I would like to buy something pre-built if possible 
that is pleasing to be in an indoor environment.


Thanks,

Justin

--
Justin Wilson 
Aol & Yahoo IM: j2sw
http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support



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Re: [WISPA] non-802.3 rackmount poe switch

[Travis Johnson]

This would be cool however, I'm sure price is the factor. How much 
would you be willing to pay for the 12 port version? My guess is 
something like this would be $600-$800. :(


Travis


On 2/28/2011 10:52 AM, Brad Belton wrote:


And here I am thinking all this time that I was the only one who would 
appreciate a device like this!  I spoke with someone at Streakwave a 
few months ago about this and basically got a blank stare response.  
He had no idea why I would want such a thing


So, to any manufacturers up to the task, here is (IMO) a starting 
point of a bullet point list for the PoE device I'm envisioning:


(1)  Multi-port models.  (e.g. 6, 12 & 24 ports)

(2)  SNMP & Web Interface Management with ACL firewall.

(3)  Redundant power supplies with separate power cords.  (e.g. UPS 
"Blue" & UPS "Red")


(4)  Dip switch DC polarity selectable per port.  (e.g. Trango/Canopy 
vs. UBNT, etc.)


(5)  Dip switch 12VDC, 24VDC, 48VDC passive and standard 802.3af 
selectable per port.


(6)  1U shallow depth form factor.

(7)  Auto-Ping per port.

(8)  LED Status indicators per port.

(9)  Optional DC power source model for solar sites?

(10)  Optional Trango Apex/Orion GigE model?

What else would be beneficial in the design of this PoE controller?

Best,

Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Mark Nash

*Sent:* Monday, February 28, 2011 10:53 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] non-802.3 rackmount poe switch

I may be off here from the majority, but I don't want a switch.  I 
want to be able to put these onto router ports as well as switch ports.


I just want a rackmount multiport passive PoE controller, manageable 
per port with autoping and redundant power supplies.  Is that so much 
to ask for??? ;)


On 2/25/2011 9:42 PM, Brad Belton wrote:

Once they add remote management, redundant power supplies and a 
"Auto-Ping" feature they'll have a winner.


Best,

Brad

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Jerry Richardson

*Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 11:29 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] non-802.3 rackmount poe switch

Just put in a 12 port 24V version of this for a UniFi WLAN. Worked 
flawlessly.


Powered the UBNT PB5 on one of the ports too.

- Jerry

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Nick

*Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 8:45 PM
*To:* wireless@wispa.org 
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] non-802.3 rackmount poe switch

http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=TP-NCMS312-18&eq=&Tp= 




On 2/25/2011 5:52 PM, Jason Bailey wrote:

Anyone have a good vendor for a rackmount poe switch for ubnt 
gear?Getting kinda messy with all the zip-ties and double-sided tape 
;)  Thanks!  Jason


  
  
  
  


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[WISPA] OT: Cisco line card

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Has anyone ever used a Cisco 3GE-GBIC-SC line card in a 12000 series 
router and a WS-G5483 GBIC module (copper)? The data sheet on the line 
card says it requires a fiber GBIC module, yet the single GE line card 
will use a copper GBIC without an issue.

Travis
Microserv




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Re: [WISPA] NSM2 & StarOS

[Travis Johnson]

I would question whether using 10mhz channel size would work... you 
probably have to go back to "standard" 20mhz channel sizes to make them 
talk... this is just a guess...

Travis
Microserv


On 2/8/2011 9:13 AM, Roger Howard wrote:
> So I've heard of several people now who are running StarOS APs who
> have started to use Ubiquiti products for CPE. I've tried several
> times and the NSM2 won't connect. What am I doing wrong?
>
> I understand Aggregate needs to be turned off on the CPE.
>
> I'm running 1.5.15.3b on the AP and I'm running 5.3 on the CPE.
>
> I'm using 10Mhz channels.
>
> I can see the AP in a site survey, but it won't associate.
>
> I've tried turning off superA/G and other special features on the AP.
>
> Can anyone think what I'm missing?
>
> Thanks,
> Roger
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik RB411

[Travis Johnson]

Matt... we have over 1,000 of the regular 411 boards in the air... 
including many point to point backhaul links. We saw temps down to -30F 
this last week and didn't have a single failure.

Travis
Microserv

On 2/5/2011 11:41 AM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> I just wanted to take this opportunity to mention that the Mikrotik
> RB411 boards are pieces of crap.Half of the ones I have failed
> during the cold spell this last week and it turns out that lots of other
> people have had the same problems.It is very frustrating to see that
> not all of the hardware we use has moved out of the amateur stage yet
> when it comes to quality control and design.
>
> Glad I only ever bought ten of them.   They will be getting replaced
> with something reliable real soon.
>
> FWIW, the 411AH boards I have in place have been just fine.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] new list

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

In an effort to create a neutral discussion forum, a new mailing list 
has been created called Wireless Users Group. This list is 100% free, 
and is not tied to any product or service being sold. It is hosted on a 
free server, with free bandwidth and free administration. No fees or 
vendor sponsorship will ever be asked by this new list.

To subscribe to this new list, send an email to users-requ...@wug.cc 
with "subscribe" in the subject field.

We support many of the wireless pioneers in this industry such as 
Motorola, Wireless Beehive, and WISPA. We would just prefer a vendor 
neutral list that allows discussion of any product (whether good or bad) 
so that we can all learn.

__
Wireless Users Group us...@wug.cc



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Re: [WISPA] IP Space WHOIS Data Update

[Travis Johnson]

We still have IP space in our name that we haven't even had that carrier 
for 5+ years...

Travis
Microserv


On 1/10/2011 3:05 PM, Matt wrote:
> We have returned some IP space to our upstream few days ago.  How long
> does it typically take for them to update the WHOIS data so it no
> longer points to us?
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] bandwidth provider at Westin

[Travis Johnson]

My guess is the local loop is the big cost... not the actual bandwidth.

Travis
Microserv


On 1/1/2011 10:48 AM, Ryan Spott wrote:
> What amount of bandwidth are you using at this time? John is a pretty
> reasonable guy. Renegotiate for lower rates at a higher commit.
>
> Or. Go to another colo and ask for 3 rack units and an X-Connect to
> the SIX. When you have that Xconnect, your bandwidth costs should go
> down pretty dramatically as there is no longer a loop charge.
>
> Pick a provider:
>   done. Cogent?
>
> ryan
>
> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 9:35 AM, MDK  wrote:
>> I'm using Spectrum now, and at 65/meg, it hurts, since my use is going up as
>> much as 10% a month.   Not only that, I haven't been able to get anyone to
>> talk to me or respond to emails in six months, except for matters of
>> collecting money.They're all over that, but I'm too small, I guess, to
>> warrant anyone's time for any other matters.
>>
>>
>>
>> ++
>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
>> ++
>>
>> --
>> From: "Ryan Spott"
>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:57 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] bandwidth provider at Westin
>>
>>> spectrumnet.us (aka condointernet)
>>> http://www.seattleix.net/<- get on this! :)
>>> http://www.seattleix.net/participants.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> ryan
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, MDK  wrote:
 I'm looking for wholesale bandwidth providers located in Westin..  Anyone
 have names / etc?

 Thanks

 Mark



 ++
 Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
 ++



 
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Re: [WISPA] Can't make a competitor happy.

[Travis Johnson]

I upgraded our main billing server hard disks in the time it took to 
write that reply... :)


Travis
Microserv


On 12/29/2010 3:19 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

Tom:

I'm always impressed with the time you take in writing the responses 
you do.  I wish I had that kind of time, I barely have enough time to 
read them.


Regards,

Chuck


On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Tom DeReggi 
mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>> wrote:


Robert,
Still missing some relevent detail...
New WISP uses 2.4 sectors.
Is the Old WISP boy also using 2.4G sectors?
As well, is the Rocket gear Single Pol or MIMO dual pol gear?
Expecially, is the new provider's 5.8G PTP and Rocket Sectors MIMO?
Legally- Part15 means everyone must deploy assuming the risk that
there could be interference. There are two potential outcomes. 1)
Coordination and cooperation or 2) survival of the fittest. This
might also come down to who has the best contract with the grain
towers. Whether anyone gained solid non-interference clauses or
spectrum exclusivity clauses in their contracts, versus hand shake
deals.
I dont agree with the assessment that the problem is the Old Boy's
"bad" design or unwillingness to change. (see below for justification)
The fact is, he was there first and had the flexibility to design
optimally for his need, and there was really no need for him to
design for the new providers need, becaue the new provider did not
exist at that time.  At the end oif the day, he has pre-existing
custoemrs that need him and that he needs revenue from, and he
isn;t going to bail on that pre-existing money tree, that has been
in motion for years. He will fight harder than the new provider
because, he has more at stake to protect, even though it may be on
a smaller scale.
Both parties are equally obligated to build their networks as
interference resilent as possible. But there are multiple
dissimilar approaches to accomplishing that that is jsut as good
as another. So who's to say what is ultimately the best practice. 
Its tough for a company who has built a network on a single pol

and 20Mhz design, and change to a dual pol 10Mhz design.
Whats less efficient? Dual Omnis each single pol, or two sectors
with dual pol?  Omnis are not always bad, IF there is adequate
physical obstruction isolation between grain towers, and using
polarity as a mechanism of interference isolation also helps. If
some else is operating on 20Mhz, a new provider on 10Mhz may not
help, because it still steps on half the 20Mhz channel.
I'd argue that the best way to coexist is to get rid of the Dual
Pol on the New provider's Mimo rockets, IF THEY are using Dual POl
MIMO. If Old BOy is using Omnis everywhere he likely is using
Verticle pol everywhere. So, New WISP should physically CAP the
verticle pol on their Rocket radios, and leave Chain Zero on
Horizontal polarity only. Then move new WISP back to 20Mhz if you
need to to regain the capacity.  Problem solved. But if you rely
on polarity as the mechanism of isolation, it simplifies
everything, so much easier than channel coordination.  Remember
that Polarity isolation often has much better isolation than
adjacent channel isolation. With OFDM you really need 20db of SNR
min, and polarity isolation will get you that. Its hard to get
that without polarity isolation.  Bottom line is, if you both
choose a different polarity, and stick to it, you wont interfere
with each other, just with yourself. But, self-interference is
much easier to isolate, when you know everything about your own
network, and can make the best choices and trade off for your
network. And you can make those changes without answering or
coordinating with someone else. Thats the benefit of relying on
Pol isolation. If old boy is using Omni, and new WISP is using
sectors, its a perfect situation for old boy to take Verticle and
New WISP to take Horizontal.
Dont get me wrong, I love Ubiquiti MIMO when I can use
it, but MIMO has a major flaw, and that is co-existing with
others is much more difficult, expecially if they are using 20Mhz
gear.
I hate to say it, but ethically, I'd side with Old WISP boy.
Comming in new with MIMO gear would surely going to cause
interference to pre-existing deployments, and the MIMO would
restrict your flexibility to resolve. If a new provider came in
with UNiquiti standard (non MIMO model), Id call it even more
irresponsbile. Bulilt-in spectrum analyzers are NEEDED in today's
day and age to adeqautely co-exist.
To be honest... I really think the burden to prevent interference
belongs to the new installer during installation. An installtion
should not continue, if its known to cause interference. This is
the reason its so important for Freq Spectrum Analyzers

Re: [WISPA] Can't make a competitor happy.

[Travis Johnson]

I agree with Jerry 100% on this.

Travis
Microserv


On 12/29/2010 1:46 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:


This is different than having to deal with consumer routers.

This is a matter of paying attention the environment you are rolling 
into. Had NB looked at the spectrum, he would have have seen the noise 
floor and realized he needed to co-ordinate before rolling out, or 
looked at a different band.


Instead, NB threw his gear in the air and is now trying to figure out 
how to fix it. From a Part-15 "rules" standpoint you are correct. From 
a professional standpoint, NB did a crappy job of planning and now 
wants to throw the responsibility for his poor planning back on the 
other guy.


With that said, had NB contacted OB in advance, and discussed 
co-locating and OB told him to piss off, then that's a different 
situation and OB gets what he deserves.


- Jerry

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Sam Tetherow

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:21 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Can't make a competitor happy.

Not sure how 'old boy's' (OB) crappy network design is 'new boy's' 
(NB) problem.  Unlicensed spectrum is just that, unlicensed, if he 
wants protection he should have bought spectrum.


As long as NB is following part15 rules and not maliciously trying to 
interfere with OB's network then OB has to accept interference from 
NB's network, just as NB has to accept interference from OB's network.


It seems that NB has tried to get along, it is about time OB started 
taking some responsibility for his network.


I don't get to tell everyone that bought a wireless router in town to 
take them back because they interfere with my WISP.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless


On 12/29/10 1:16 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

Here is my take:

Old boy was there first

New boy rolls in on a sweet deal for tower owner

Old boy's network is hosed due to interference from new boy

Sound like new boy is the problem regardless of how old boy's network 
is built (it worked before new boy came along). I'm guessing no 
spectrum analysis was done in advance or new boy would have seen it 
was a no go. New boy needs to look at using a different band or buy 
out old boy.


I would HIGHLY recommend new boy bail on 2.4, and use 5.8 UBNT Rockets 
with Sectors. He will be able to provide a higher class of service and 
be installing what he should have installed in the first place. New 
boy should include in the tower agreement language for exclusivity on 
3.65, 5.2, 5.4, and whatever unused channels there are on 5.8.


- Jerry

*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert West

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:01 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Can't make a competitor happy.

Problem is old boy doesn't want to change a thing, he seems to think 
he's king of the roost since he was first in.


*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:22 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Can't make a competitor happy.

Have everyone use Canopy, sync the aps together, and problems go away. 
 Or wait for UBNT AirSync.

Regards,

Chuck

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Robert West 
mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com>> wrote:


I'm throwing this out there for another WISP to see if anyone has any 
experience with something like this or any ideas.


Within the past year this operator was asked by a grain operator to 
bring broadband to all of their grain legs.  The operator had the idea 
of, instead of charging the grain dealer for the install, to offer the 
broadband for free in exchange for using the legs for access points 
and sell the service to local customers.  The grain dealer agreed, 
obviously, so he built out a fairly good sized network.  For equipment 
he is using all Ubiquiti radios and CPE units and with Pac grids and 
Bullets for his back haul and Rockets with sectors at the APs.  
Network has been working perfectly.


That's the setup.  Now for the trouble.

There was and still is an existing WISP in the area.  60 customers or 
so.  (Grain dealer is associated with OLD wisp in a roundabout way but 
chose not to use him for whatever reason)  It's reported that boy is 
in love with Bullets and OMNI antennas on all of his APs.  For CPEs he 
goes for large grids and Bullets, I believe.  He also pushes it as far 
as he can go, 5 miles or more on those OMNI APs.  New operator is 
using 5.8 for Back Haul, 2.4 for CPE.  Old WISP calls new WISP almost 
immediately.  Interference taking down his network.  New wisp changes 
channels to those suggested by old wisp.  Calls again, interference.  
New wisp changes channels again.  Another phone call, he changes yet 
again.  Then drops down to 10MHz channels to give 

Re: [WISPA] Email Accounts

[Travis Johnson]

We are hosting 10,000 email accounts on a single box running Linux with 
Postfix. Using 4GB of RAM and a simple RAID10 config with SATA drives.

Travis
Microserv


On 12/15/2010 8:38 AM, Matt wrote:
> Our current email server is getting a bit over loaded.  Disk I/O is
> getting to be an issue on it.  Hosting about 2000 accounts.  Likely
> just going to move current solution to a bigger and newer RAID array.
> Before I do that thought I would ask what other solutions are out
> there?  Prefer to keep it in house and keep costs down.  Current
> solution actually works ok just such a pain whenever it needs
> upgraded.
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Problems with facebook and hotmail

[Travis Johnson]

I would guess you are running out of bandwidth. 5meg isn't much for 120 
customers, especially since most of them are probably trying to use it 
at nearly the same time (6:00PM - 10:00PM).

Travis
Microserv


On 11/25/2010 6:45 AM, Optimum Wireless Services wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Lately my customers have been experiencing problems accessing facebook
> and hotmail. They claim they can't access their email on hotmail after
> entering their credentials and can't see pictures and other people's
> profile on facebook. Don't know if is our network or what. We have 3
> 5mbps/1mbps dsl lines that really give us 4.5/800. We have about 120
> customers and have complained so much about it that is already getting
> on me.
>
> Just wanted to know if any of you have experienced problems with these
> two websites.
>
> Thanks in advanced.
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquity PowerBridge5M @ 12miles

[Travis Johnson]

I have a few brand new ones (still sealed) I would let go if you really 
wanted them... hit me offlist.

Travis
Microserv

On 11/10/2010 4:16 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> The calculator indicated a great link.
>
> However it's moot since they are out of stock everywhere.
>
> Turns out it's less cost to use 30dB dishes and Rockets with more margin
>
> Jerry Richardson
> Sent Mobile
>
> On Nov 10, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz"
> wrote:
>
>> for 12 miles, I would do a Rocket Dish, over PowerBridge.
>> the 34 db dish would be better.
>>
>> Use the UBNT calculator to figure things out...
>>
>> We have two Rocket Dishes working on a 9 mile link.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet&  Telecom
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/2010 2:11 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>> Anyone have a similar link running? Happy with it?
>>>
>>> - Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> ---
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Re: [WISPA] New UBNT 900 gear

[Travis Johnson]

Stock was gone a month ago... before it ever arrived.

On 11/9/2010 12:30 PM, rwf wrote:
> Anyone tried any of the UBNT 900 gear yet?
> How did it work?
>
> Anyone know who has some in stock?
>
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] New UBNT 900 gear

[Travis Johnson]

Got my CPE's two days ago...

On 11/9/2010 12:35 PM, Robert West wrote:
> I've been able to find the sectors and rockets for some time but the CPEs
> aren't available.  Once they show up then the sectors and rockets will be
> gone.  Grab what ya can when you can!  :)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of rwf
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 2:31 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] New UBNT 900 gear
>
> Anyone tried any of the UBNT 900 gear yet?
> How did it work?
>
> Anyone know who has some in stock?
>
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

Agreed. Whenever we buy any "major" component for our network (big 
routers, licensed links, big switches, etc.) we always buy a "spare" to 
go with it (if we don't already have one).


Example... our main backbone switch is a Cisco 3550-12T. All of our 
traffic (currently 450Mbps x 200Mbps) goes through this switch so we can 
"mirror" some of the ports for filtering and traffic monitoring. When we 
first purchased the switch, we bought 2 of them. We mounted the 2nd one 
directly above the first in our rack, and configured it exactly the 
same. So, if that switch ever dies, we simply move a few cables and we 
are back up and going... and at the same time, if we ever need to 
upgrade firmware, we can do it on the 2nd one, test it, and then move it 
into production and upgrade the 1st one with about 5 seconds of 
total downtime while we move cables.


Always, always have spares of your critical equipment. :)

Travis
Microserv

On 11/3/2010 10:54 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
Hot Swap is hard to fully accomplish with PCs. Everyone needs a plan 
for how maintenance will occur with minimal downtime.
For example, its prettty easy to buy a nice Rack case with redundant 
PS, but how do you replace an overheating CPU?
A standard Rack PC does not have HotSwap CPUs, and it is inevitable 
that sooner or later the Heatsink fan will fail or heat sink grease 
will harden.
And how does one troubleshoot that, on a live router? That is the 
negative of a Linux self made Rack PC. But again, thats the reason for 
a hot spare router to put in place, and a reason for scheduled 
maintenance to occur every couple years after hours, when a 60 
second outage is acceptable. As ISPs start to become gloabal ISPs 
opperating in multiple time zones, it becomes tougher, to find good 
times to do maintenance, but I dont think most WISPs are at that stage 
where it matters that much. When it does matter that much, I'd argue 
the WISP should have both hardware redundancy and router redundancy.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
*To:* WISPA General List <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:26 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

Powercode's MAXX does that...or so they say.  I believe
ImageStream says they can do this too.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
    Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

Having two routers talking to each other is not the same as a
single router with redundant parts. I can pull the CPU card
from my Cisco and the box never misses a single packet because
the 2nd CPU card is in the same box. Same with the route
processor cards. Same with the power supplies.

If you have two boxes doing VRRP, and BGP, if the power supply
goes out of a box, how long before the 2nd box could fully
take over? 30 seconds? 60 seconds? :(

Travis
Microserv



On 11/3/2010 6:26 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

OK, elaborate on how 2 distinct identical boxes is not
hardware redundancy.  I think by the definition of
redundancy, it is 100%. Webster: characterized by similarity
or repetition 
Jeff,

VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last 
message. Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 
platform. I'm well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. 
We run a few VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and 
MikroTik.

What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also 
well aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two 
separate GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. 
Both routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're 
connected by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of 
bandwidth between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated 
GigE fiber link in the coming months.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two 
connections. There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to 
operate iBGP.

I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it 
because we have requirements for performance&  uptime which a Linux/BSD box 
cannot currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for companies in 
various industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, defense, energy, 
cellular, and even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford to wrestle with the 
issues others on this li

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

Then you move the cards into the "spare" chassis you have sitting 3ft 
away in another rack and boot up and go... :)

However, I have NEVER heard of a Cisco 12000 series "backplane" failing. 
EVER. Can't say that for an X86 based anything... they fail all the 
time... cards, system boards, processors, memory, power supplies, etc.

Don't get me wrong here... we love Mikrotik running on our X86 
systems we currently have 20 or 30 of them running the heart of our 
network... including one directly behind our Cisco 12008 that does all 
of our routing and deactivation stuff... and handles 450Mbps x 200Mbps 
on a daily basis... :)

The point was, running RouterOS on a device taking multiple BGP feeds... 
which I would never do... Cisco still owns the BGP space... and my next 
choice would be Imagestream.

Travis
Microserv


On 11/3/2010 8:45 PM, Butch Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 19:53 -0600, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> Having two routers talking to each other is not the same as a single
>> router with redundant parts. I can pull the CPU card from my Cisco and
>> the box never misses a single packet because the 2nd CPU card is in
>> the same box. Same with the route processor cards. Same with the power
>> supplies.
>>
>> If you have two boxes doing VRRP, and BGP, if the power supply goes
>> out of a box, how long before the 2nd box could fully take over? 30
>> seconds? 60 seconds? :(
> What if the backplane is the problem?
>



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Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

And, many of us in the middle of nowhere are still getting upstream 
links via telco circuits (such as OC3 and OC12). How do you terminate an 
OC12 into two separate boxes to run VRRP? You don't.


Travis
Microserv


On 11/3/2010 6:26 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
OK, elaborate on how 2 distinct identical boxes is not hardware 
redundancy.  I think by the definition of redundancy, it is 100%. 
Webster: characterized by similarity or repetition particularly /redundant/ brick buildings


On 11/3/2010 6:45 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:

Jeff,

VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message. 
Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm 
well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few 
VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik.

What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well 
aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate 
GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both 
routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're connected 
by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of bandwidth 
between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated GigE fiber 
link in the coming months.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two connections. 
There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to operate iBGP.

I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it because 
we have requirements for performance&  uptime which a Linux/BSD box cannot 
currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for companies in various 
industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, defense, energy, cellular, and 
even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford to wrestle with the issues others on 
this list experience. If its not reliable we replace it. We don't have a problem 
paying for reliability.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:


Hi Blake,

I’m not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I believe 
you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get.  We generally blow 
the doors off of the VXRs and down.

There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy.  One is with a 
massively expensive single box, like the Cisco.  The other is to set up 
redundant hardware…which is particularly good in a BGP application.  You can 
have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and VRRP 
between the boxes, and BGP between the peers.  That way, if you lose anything, 
all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s).  This also allows 
for geographic separation of the routers.  If you can bridge between the 
routers, you can have them in completely different locations…thus keeping your 
network running if something really nasty happens.

I can’t speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling BGP 
for around 10 years.  We use Quagga currently and we’ve found it to be very 
stable, as our customers on-list have attested.  It’s one of our top 
applications.

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106

From:wireless-boun...@wispa.org  [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more Interface 
types, and more widely tested&  stable software.

I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day; terminate 
some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and participate in an OSPF 
area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware redundancy&  wire-speed 
forwarding isn't there for my needs.

If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future. Cisco does 
too&  has developed IOS XR.

Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta&  ImageStream are great platforms. They 
compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's appropriate.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:


I’m curious Travis…not looking for an argument.

What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based originally) to a 
hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, Vyatta, whatever)?

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106

From:wireless-boun...@wispa.org  [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

Tom,

I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't
compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built
from the ground up to do noth

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

Having two routers talking to each other is not the same as a single 
router with redundant parts. I can pull the CPU card from my Cisco and 
the box never misses a single packet because the 2nd CPU card is in the 
same box. Same with the route processor cards. Same with the power supplies.


If you have two boxes doing VRRP, and BGP, if the power supply goes out 
of a box, how long before the 2nd box could fully take over? 30 seconds? 
60 seconds? :(


Travis
Microserv


On 11/3/2010 6:26 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
OK, elaborate on how 2 distinct identical boxes is not hardware 
redundancy.  I think by the definition of redundancy, it is 100%. 
Webster: characterized by similarity or repetition particularly /redundant/ brick buildings


On 11/3/2010 6:45 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:

Jeff,

VXRs and down. Not GSR's and up. I wasn't entirely clear in my last message. 
Like Travis I was also commenting about the Cisco GSR / 12000 platform. I'm 
well aware of the performance of a Linux box compared to a VXR. We run a few 
VXR routers in our network in addition to GSR's, BSD routers, and MikroTik.

What you're describing really isn't true hardware redundancy. I'm also well 
aware of BGP and its use in a multi-homed environment. We have two separate 
GSRs acting as our edge routers. One in California, one in Arizona. Both 
routers have multiple eBGP peers, and run iBGP between them. They're connected 
by a series of licensed microwave radios with about 155mbps of bandwidth 
between the two. We'll be supplementing that link with a dedicated GigE fiber 
link in the coming months.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding bridging between two connections. 
There's no requirement to run a bridged network in order to operate iBGP.

I have no doubt Quagga works well in some BGP applications. We don't use it because 
we have requirements for performance&  uptime which a Linux/BSD box cannot 
currently meet. We provide voice (TDM) and data services for companies in various 
industries such as mining, manufacturing, aerospace, defense, energy, cellular, and 
even other ISPs. We literally cannot afford to wrestle with the issues others on 
this list experience. If its not reliable we replace it. We don't have a problem 
paying for reliability.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:


Hi Blake,

I’m not sure what sort of speeds you think Linux limits out at, but I believe 
you might be surprised at how much throughput you can get.  We generally blow 
the doors off of the VXRs and down.

There are two different ways of getting hardware redundancy.  One is with a 
massively expensive single box, like the Cisco.  The other is to set up 
redundant hardware…which is particularly good in a BGP application.  You can 
have a relatively inexpensive router on each circuit, set up iBGP and VRRP 
between the boxes, and BGP between the peers.  That way, if you lose anything, 
all the in and outbound traffic fails to the other unit(s).  This also allows 
for geographic separation of the routers.  If you can bridge between the 
routers, you can have them in completely different locations…thus keeping your 
network running if something really nasty happens.

I can’t speak for the other companies, but ImageStream has been handling BGP 
for around 10 years.  We use Quagga currently and we’ve found it to be very 
stable, as our customers on-list have attested.  It’s one of our top 
applications.

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106

From:wireless-boun...@wispa.org  [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Blake Covarrubias
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:31 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

Hardware redundancy, wire speed packet forwarding, support for more Interface 
types, and more widely tested&  stable software.

I'll use a MikroTik, Linux, or BSD box as an aggregation router any day; terminate 
some VLANs, act as an MPLS CE, perform QoS marking, and participate in an OSPF 
area. Probably nothing more. The level of hardware redundancy&  wire-speed 
forwarding isn't there for my needs.

If you're just knocking IOS, I realize it isn't the wave of the future. Cisco does 
too&  has developed IOS XR.

Linux, MikroTik, and I'm sure Vyatta&  ImageStream are great platforms. They 
compete well with Cisco in some areas...others not so much. Use what's appropriate.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:04, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  wrote:


I’m curious Travis…not looking for an argument.

What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based originally) to a 
hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, Vyatta, whatever)?

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106

From:wireless-boun...@wispa.org  [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 20

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

The higher end routers do their work in hardware with specific 
processors and memory for each function, which allows things like 
redundancy, speed, and hot-swap capabilities. I can pull any card from 
my Cisco router while it's running and put a different card in, 
configure it, and begin using it... all while the router is still routing.


Realize I am talking about a 12000 series Cisco, that when brand new was 
probably over $250k fully loaded they are now on Ebay for $3k.


Travis
Microserv


On 11/3/2010 9:04 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:


I'm curious Travis...not looking for an argument.

What specifically do you think is superior in IOS (Unix-based 
originally) to a hardened, purpose-built Linux distro (us, Mikrotik, 
Vyatta, whatever)?


Regards,

Jeff

ImageStream

800-813-5123 x106



*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

Tom,

I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't
compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built
from the ground up to do nothing but routing. We purchased a used Cisco
12008 router about 1.5 years ago off ebay. They are very, very cheap...
the only downside is they are BIG and require 240VAC. But it's way cool
to pull the CPU card while the router is moving 500Mbps of traffic and
have it not even miss a single ping (due to the redundant CPU card).
Same goes for the route fabric card. ;)

We use Mikrotik for our inside "core" router and this big Cisco for our
border router to our BGP upstreams. I have slept very well for the last
1.5 years knowing everything in the box is fully redundant (CPU, route,
power, etc.). :)

Travis
Microserv


On 11/2/2010 9:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. 
Imagestream and

> Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers.
>
> I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom
> modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use 
latest

> Quagga.
> That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont 
recommend
> that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of 
Linux.

> Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science
> project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once 
you are

> comfortable with your Distro, it works well.
>
> There are a million arguements "for" and "against" Cisco versus 
Linux, to be
> used for the ISPs' average NOC/POP router/switch. I dont dispute any 
of the
> arguements. But one area where I believe Linux stands tall, is as a 
CORE BGP

> router. A core BGP router can be one of the more simplistic configured
> routers because it only really needs to perform one function, BGP 
routing to

> its connected peers.  For BGP there are two critical needs Fast
> processors and Lots of RAM. In todays world there is no excuse to not 
have
> both of those.  The problem with Cisco is that it lacks both, unless 
you pay
> big bucks. Linux on the other hand has an abundance of both, when 
combined

> with PC-Like hardware.
>
>   I laugh at my competitors, when they say, "oh no, BGP reset, had to 
reload
> BGP tables, now there is latency for like 3 minutes or compromised 
routing

> for that period" or "got a route problem, the small prefixes aren't in my
> tables". . On Linux, if you want to restart BGP, well thats like 1 
second to
> reload tables. And no need to drop any routes, unless you want to. 
You could
> have Full routes with like 30 peers from a single router, if you 
wanted to.
> You can load up Linux with like 32 NICs (qty8 4port GIG NICs) in a 2U 
case,

> if you want to, and dont even need a Switch. (Although new will cost you
> about $430 per 4port PCI-E Gig NIC).
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kristian Hoffmann"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
>
>> On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote:
>>
>>> I still need to try a Vyatta system.
>> I loathe the idea of managing a *nix distro on a router (which is why we
>> use RouterOS now).  Apparently I've had too much Tik-aid, because I had
>> completely forgotten about Vyatta and similar options.
>>
>> I have a SuperMicro 5015A-H (Atom 330 dual-core) coming in tomorrow.
>> I'm going to try RouterOS an

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

It's about 30" tall and weighs about 100 pounds (literally).

Travis
Microserv


On 11/3/2010 12:01 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> That is way cool, to have that much "real" redundancy in a router.
> How big is Big?
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't
>> compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built
>> from the ground up to do nothing but routing. We purchased a used Cisco
>> 12008 router about 1.5 years ago off ebay. They are very, very cheap...
>> the only downside is they are BIG and require 240VAC. But it's way cool
>> to pull the CPU card while the router is moving 500Mbps of traffic and
>> have it not even miss a single ping (due to the redundant CPU card).
>> Same goes for the route fabric card. ;)
>>
>> We use Mikrotik for our inside "core" router and this big Cisco for our
>> border router to our BGP upstreams. I have slept very well for the last
>> 1.5 years knowing everything in the box is fully redundant (CPU, route,
>> power, etc.). :)
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> On 11/2/2010 9:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. Imagestream
>>> and
>>> Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers.
>>>
>>> I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom
>>> modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use
>>> latest
>>> Quagga.
>>> That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont
>>> recommend
>>> that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of
>>> Linux.
>>> Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science
>>> project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once you
>>> are
>>> comfortable with your Distro, it works well.
>>>
>>> There are a million arguements "for" and "against" Cisco versus Linux, to
>>> be
>>> used for the ISPs' average NOC/POP router/switch. I dont dispute any of
>>> the
>>> arguements. But one area where I believe Linux stands tall, is as a CORE
>>> BGP
>>> router. A core BGP router can be one of the more simplistic configured
>>> routers because it only really needs to perform one function, BGP routing
>>> to
>>> its connected peers.  For BGP there are two critical needs Fast
>>> processors and Lots of RAM. In todays world there is no excuse to not
>>> have
>>> both of those.  The problem with Cisco is that it lacks both, unless you
>>> pay
>>> big bucks. Linux on the other hand has an abundance of both, when
>>> combined
>>> with PC-Like hardware.
>>>
>>>I laugh at my competitors, when they say, "oh no, BGP reset, had to
>>> reload
>>> BGP tables, now there is latency for like 3 minutes or compromised
>>> routing
>>> for that period" or "got a route problem, the small prefixes aren't in my
>>> tables". . On Linux, if you want to restart BGP, well thats like 1 second
>>> to
>>> reload tables. And no need to drop any routes, unless you want to. You
>>> could
>>> have Full routes with like 30 peers from a single router, if you wanted
>>> to.
>>> You can load up Linux with like 32 NICs (qty8 4port GIG NICs) in a 2U
>>> case,
>>> if you want to, and dont even need a Switch. (Although new will cost you
>>> about $430 per 4port PCI-E Gig NIC).
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL&   Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Kristian Hoffmann"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I still need to try a Vyatta system.
>>>> I loathe the idea of ma

Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS

[Travis Johnson]

Tom,

I agree that Linux works very well as a router, but it still doesn't 
compare to a dedicated hardware platform (like Cisco) that was built 
from the ground up to do nothing but routing. We purchased a used Cisco 
12008 router about 1.5 years ago off ebay. They are very, very cheap... 
the only downside is they are BIG and require 240VAC. But it's way cool 
to pull the CPU card while the router is moving 500Mbps of traffic and 
have it not even miss a single ping (due to the redundant CPU card). 
Same goes for the route fabric card. ;)

We use Mikrotik for our inside "core" router and this big Cisco for our 
border router to our BGP upstreams. I have slept very well for the last 
1.5 years knowing everything in the box is fully redundant (CPU, route, 
power, etc.). :)

Travis
Microserv


On 11/2/2010 9:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Note: Quagga has been very reliable for quite some time now. Imagestream and
> Vyatta both use Quagga. Both are great choices for BGP routers.
>
> I personally use Mandrake (Mandriva) Linux with a slew of custom
> modifications that we have made, loaded on SuperMicro, and then use latest
> Quagga.
> That has worked well for us, the last 5 years. (although, I dont recommend
> that to someone, until they are vastly familiar with their distro of Linux.
> Last thing you want to do is use your BGP router for a Guinee Pig Science
> project, rebooting it all the time to test script changes.) But once you are
> comfortable with your Distro, it works well.
>
> There are a million arguements "for" and "against" Cisco versus Linux, to be
> used for the ISPs' average NOC/POP router/switch. I dont dispute any of the
> arguements. But one area where I believe Linux stands tall, is as a CORE BGP
> router. A core BGP router can be one of the more simplistic configured
> routers because it only really needs to perform one function, BGP routing to
> its connected peers.  For BGP there are two critical needs Fast
> processors and Lots of RAM. In todays world there is no excuse to not have
> both of those.  The problem with Cisco is that it lacks both, unless you pay
> big bucks. Linux on the other hand has an abundance of both, when combined
> with PC-Like hardware.
>
>   I laugh at my competitors, when they say, "oh no, BGP reset, had to reload
> BGP tables, now there is latency for like 3 minutes or compromised routing
> for that period" or "got a route problem, the small prefixes aren't in my
> tables". . On Linux, if you want to restart BGP, well thats like 1 second to
> reload tables. And no need to drop any routes, unless you want to. You could
> have Full routes with like 30 peers from a single router, if you wanted to.
> You can load up Linux with like 32 NICs (qty8 4port GIG NICs) in a 2U case,
> if you want to, and dont even need a Switch. (Although new will cost you
> about $430 per 4port PCI-E Gig NIC).
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kristian Hoffmann"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Full BGP on RouterOS
>
>
>> On Tue, 2010-11-02 at 18:52 -0500, Scott Lambert wrote:
>>
>>> I still need to try a Vyatta system.
>> I loathe the idea of managing a *nix distro on a router (which is why we
>> use RouterOS now).  Apparently I've had too much Tik-aid, because I had
>> completely forgotten about Vyatta and similar options.
>>
>> I have a SuperMicro 5015A-H (Atom 330 dual-core) coming in tomorrow.
>> I'm going to try RouterOS and Vyatta and see how BGP responds on each
>> with a single feed.  If anyone else has an x86-based distro they'd like
>> to see performance on, let me know.
>>
>> And thanks for all the responses.  The information has been very
>> helpful.  Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is "I have no idea
>> what I'm going to do."  Cisco = $$$ and MikroTik = coin flip.  Hopefully
>> Vyatta lands somewhere in the middle.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Kristian
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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>
>
> 
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-

Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Travis Johnson]

  Run... run far far away...

We ran an ETINC box for many years, until we couldn't take his support 
and attitude any longer... or his nazi licensing system.

Travis
Microserv


On 10/15/2010 10:36 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Dennis has been around for a very long time.
> http://www.etinc.com/
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Forbes Mercy"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:15 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager
>
>
>>   In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
>> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the ports or
>> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week).  I'm
>> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Bandwidth Manager

[Travis Johnson]

 Hi,

You need to fix your network, not the hardware/software you are running. 
I have over 60 Mikrotik backhaul links, with over 1,000 Mikrotik 
customer radios (plus thousands more Trango and Canopy) and have NONE of 
the issues you describe.


Our main edge router is a Mikrotik box (x86 with Quad core) and it has 
thousands of rules and NAT translations, moving 450Mbps x 150Mbps on a 
daily basis, and has been up for over 6 months right now (due only to 
firmware upgrades).


Having your network bridged is the problem. Take time out and fix that, 
or you will continue to have more and more problems...


Travis
Microserv


On 10/14/2010 4:45 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
Really Josh, you want me to rehash this?  To be simple I'm not a true 
geek, I barely speak linux and Router OS not at all.  Our network of 
700 over 12 towers is bridged, a big no-no but I can't keep radios up 
long enough to make us routed along with the growth sprut we've had 
this year (we 're averaging 3 installs a day with one installer/field 
tech).  We've found that if you get over 50 on Mikrotik you start 
getting latency issues, four of our towers have over that.  When I was 
all Mikrotik (well 90% that 10% Moto) it worked great for about a year 
and a half, then the packet storms started, then radios started doing 
weird intermittent things like turning off.  Sure we did the obvious, 
change passwords, isolate the radios from the rest of the network but 
it just started to get worse, probably traffic driven from our ongoing 
growth that the greater demand for more bandwidth (we are 90% 
residential so Netflix type stuff).


To solve this we started replacing backhauls with Ubiquiti radios.  
Ubiquiti allows more traffic so the added pressure really started to 
take down the Mikrotik AP's, ports and bridges now drop with 
undiagnoisable (new word) regularity.  Then the bandwidth manager 
failed, Butch rebuilt it but for some reason the upgrade to 4.11 made 
failures happen more often that were like the AP's, dropped ports and 
bridges.  We compensated by making a path on the Ethernet side and 
in-network side so we could maybe ... (fix the disabled port/bridge) 
from either end.  We are spending all of our time building redundant 
this and redundant that until we realized one thing, on every outage 
Mikrotik's had cascading failures shutting down ports or turning off 
radios (disabling)  meanwhile Ubiquiti never went down, ever.  So we 
started pulling all Mikrotik backhauls, now we only lose AP's and the 
bandwidth manager.  Since the bandwidth manager takes the entire 
network down we want replace it.  Now you're up to speed on where we 
are, I call Mikrotik my 'backwards momentum' mover, we have to stop 
our forward motion on building and installing so we can restore 
service, it takes the fun out of this business thats for sure.


Forbes

On 10/14/2010 3:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


Hrm why doesn't Mikrotik work?

On Oct 14, 2010 6:15 PM, "Forbes Mercy" > wrote:

> In my mission to rid our network of Mikrotik I need to shop for a new
> bandwidth manager since mine likes to randomly drop one of the 
ports or

> bridge, and reset the route gateway (twice already this week). I'm
> looking for a more friendly windows type based unit, any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] 189 mile wifi link- 5.8G Ubiquiti

[Travis Johnson]

  Dang they just beat my 127 mile link using Trango radios from 4-5 
years ago... :(

I don't think I have two mountaintops that far apart :(

Travis
Microserv

On 9/22/2010 4:49 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Pretty impressive for 5.8Ghz. I'm aware of numerous long 2.4G links, but
> this is clearly a record for 5.8G.
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/7878/
>
> It was even over water, all be it, it was also on top of a mountain a mile
> high :-)
> They said they pulled off 5 mbps.
>
> Its funny, I remember conversatiosn when SR5s first came out, where some
> people stated they wouldn't risk using them for long links over 10miles or
> so, because a low price product likely was lower grade.  I got to say, way
> to go Ubiquiti!
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> 301-515-7774
> IntAirNet - Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] nanostation and canopy towers within 2 miles of each other

[Travis Johnson]

  I have been testing some UBNT 2.4 stuff and not overly impressed. We 
have a LOS 5 mile shot, but some pretty good 2.4 noise on the AP side. 
We can't maintain much over 5Mbps (using a 10mhz channel size). Testing 
through trees was almost impossible.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/22/2010 10:57 AM, Marco Coelho wrote:
> I've got a competitor getting ready to light a nanostation based tower
> within 2 miles of one of my Canopy 2.4 towers.  What kind of
> interference should I expect?
>
> Listening to this guy, their radios are magic and can shoot through
> trees and over hills.  Totally overcoming line of site issues.  Is he
> smoking something strange?
>
> Marco
>
>



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Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik

[Travis Johnson]

 Time to route. I can't imagine having my entire network bridged. We 
see problem on the same towers between AP's because there is no 
"routing" between them.


Spend your time re-doing your network to routed.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/17/2010 2:27 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's 
dealers.  People who route their networks will have a fraction of the 
problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of "must be your 
employees" or " that never happens" got old about 20 outages ago.  
Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports 
erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0.  This was an easy fix, log in 
and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back 
legitimate again.  Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do 
that.  The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not 
in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 
times, you get it.  Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it 
then reprogram it.  A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the 
UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue 
was.  It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I 
appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care 
to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while 
aging about 3 years in one day.  Like watching a baby sleep the night 
is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry 
about taking 4 vacation days this weekend.  I wish I could trust the 
equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by 
shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my 
employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of 
my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' 
then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees


Forbes

On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote:
For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The 
only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like 
equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for 
personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for 
commercial purposes.


On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists > wrote:


There's something to be said for "losing faith" in a technology.
 For me,
it's the "build-it-yourself" radios.  All of them.  Mikrotik &
StarOS.  For
me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to
put in
redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee
something's going to malfunction.

Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make
the "leap of
faith" and hopefully their product is more stable over time,
keeping much of
the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer.

- Original Message -
From: "Forbes Mercy" mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com>>
To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM
Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik


>  I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every
> Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with
UBNIT.
> I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two
radios just
> dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to
0.0.0.0, today
> another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti
towers.  You
> can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find
the cause
> and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of
Mikrotik.
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik

[Travis Johnson]

 Same here. I think we had up to 1500 MT radios in the field. No higher 
failure rate or issues than any other product (Trango, Canopy, etc.).


Travis
Microserv


On 9/16/2010 12:39 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field.  I never had 
this problem.  I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use 
MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every 
tower.  I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc.  I have 
seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but 
not since.


Regards,

Chuck


On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists > wrote:


There's something to be said for "losing faith" in a technology.
 For me,
it's the "build-it-yourself" radios.  All of them.  Mikrotik &
StarOS.  For
me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to
put in
redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee
something's going to malfunction.

Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the
"leap of
faith" and hopefully their product is more stable over time,
keeping much of
the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer.

- Original Message -
From: "Forbes Mercy" mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com>>
To: "WISPA General List" mailto:wireless@wispa.org>>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM
Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik


>  I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every
> Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT.
> I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios
just
> dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to
0.0.0.0, today
> another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti
towers.  You
> can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find
the cause
> and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of
Mikrotik.
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge

[Travis Johnson]

 And I think that's a very optimistic number even at that... but time 
will tell.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/13/2010 1:53 PM, Tony C. Loosle wrote:
I think UBNT means 300 per cell or per 3 radios.  So, only 100 per ap 
radio.

t


> Glenn,  My concern is I already have 58 clients on a MT AP.  I need
> Double that.  Your saying you don't see more than 50 working right.
> Please explain.  UBNT says 300 Clients per AP no problem.
>
>
> Steve Barnes
>
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
>
>
> experience here shows sub 50 as a max  - for the price point - it
> cannot be beat however
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
>
>
>   Polling is what makes systems like Canopy and Nstreme shine.  The
> polling is different than the MIMO technology.  Mimo is Antenna and
> TDMA is polling. 802.11 was never designed for outdoor so the
> polling is flawed for such purposes.  I have seen 5ghz Mikrotik
> units with nstreme enabled that had 70 clients at 3meg burstable
> speeds.  I am interested to see how many clients an airmax AP can
> handle.
> --
> Justin Wilson 
> http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News
> http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting
> -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support
>
>
> From: Steve Barnes 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:30:04 -0400
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
>
> Forbes, so are you saying: if I change and go to a Rocket with
> Airmax dual pol antenna and I have a client with a UBNT Bullet M2
> HP Connected to a Laird 24Dbi Grid Vertical only dish, that even
> though the Bullet has Airmax as part of it, it wont connect.  Or
> are you saying that all your clients need to be new with Airmax
> ability?
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> General Manager
> PCS-WIN  ;
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service  
;

>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 2:11 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking the plunge
>
>> From personal experience I can tell you that you will be very
>> happy when you make the switch.  I just replaced three Mikrotik
>> BH/AP units, pings went from their rather wild 30-120ms swings to
>> a steady 15ms no matter what time.  Just be ready for three
>> things, you can't put usernames in the ACL like Mikrotik, there
>> is less routing because UBNT expects filtering to be done in your
>> router before their equipment, and it will never go down because
>> it's just a transparent bridge so traffic that would have
>> overwhelmed Mikrotik equipment and crashed the LAN port won't
>> happen on Ubiquity.  Oh and you're right, I've found that if you
>> use dual-polarity you can't mix that with non-dual and
>> connections with non-, its far better to have all Airmax running
>> rather than a mix, this means replacing CPE so that all customers
>> on that tower are the same equipment, spendy (relative to UBNT's
>> low cost) but worth it.
>>
> Forbes Mercy
> Washington Broadband
>
> On 9/13/2010 10:31 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
> All my APs are Mikrotik. My CPE's are a mix of Tranzeo and UBNT.
> I have a AP with 58 Clients on it and starting to get complaints
> about slowdowns.  They are all setup 10 MHz channel 802.11g.  This
> is a tower that due to contractual issues I cannot add anymore
> equipment.  So I am considering taking down the Mikrotik and 120
> degree sector and putting up a UBNT Rocket and Airmax 120 sector.
> It will take time to physically switch all my clients to new UBNT
> Airmax equipment but would like to get it done before the snow
> flies.
>
> Has anyone down this?  Success?  I know I cannot turn on Airmax
> till everyone is on the UBNT with that capability but does it work
> fine till you get it on?
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service  
;

>
>
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Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?

[Travis Johnson]

 Any of the X86 based systems are going to kill the RB platform we 
have an X86 system moving 500Mbps of traffic (400Mbps x 100Mbps) on a 
daily basis... connection tracking on, queues, NAT rules, etc. and the 
CPU runs at 11% all day long. :)


Travis
Microserv


On 9/8/2010 9:47 PM, RickG wrote:
That might be my next step. Interesting though - a couple years ago, I 
originally had a high end PC (for it's time - Athon 64 Dual-core X2 
4200+ with 4GB of memory) running RouterOS. Swapped it out for a 
RB450G and in my opinion, the little 450G kicked the PC's butt. So now 
I'm skeptical.


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Jon Auer <mailto:j...@tapodi.net>> wrote:


We've built Supermicro 1U Atom boxes for under $600 to use as DNS
servers.
That was with 2x 2.5 inch hard drives.
You'd probably run RouterOS off of a USB stick instead.
That would save you around $120.

Not much of a point to the RB1000 when a 1U Atom box is cheaper and
can run rings around it in throughput.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:31 PM, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only
$700. How
> much can you build the Atom unit for?
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>
>>  The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can
build a 1u
>> ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> > So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their
>> > routers...
>> >Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still
have to
>> > consider Memory etc etc.).
>> >
>> >
>> >

http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf
>> >
>> > I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however
one there
>> > product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in
mind they
>> > do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are
able to handle
>> > traffic better.
>> >
>> > Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing
199,000 pps
>> > with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is
about 100Mbps
>> > of traffic.
>> >
>> > I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know
would love to
>> > compare...
>> >
>> > Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any
comparison
>> > of what the PowerRouters can handle...
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> >
>> >
>> > Faisal Imtiaz
>> > Snappy Internet&  Telecom
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote:
>> >> Even RB1100 ?
>> >>
>> >> That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports...
>> >>
>> >> F.
>> >>
>> >> On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at
300-500meg of
>> >>> traffic...  100meg no problem.
>> >>>
>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> >>> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
>> >>>> vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work -
>> >>>> pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an
amazing price)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> :-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There is nothing on the market place that is affordable
that will do
>> >>>>> what you are looking for.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig
Switch, pick
>> >>>>> your
>> >>>>> favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at
something with
>> >

Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?

[Travis Johnson]

 Last one I built was less than $400. CPU on the RB1000 was over 30% 
compared to 10% on the ATOM unit, exact same traffic.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/8/2010 9:31 PM, RickG wrote:
I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. 
How much can you build the Atom unit for?


On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


 The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build
a 1u
ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their
routers...
>Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still
have to
> consider Memory etc etc.).
>
>

http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf
>
> I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there
> product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in
mind they
> do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able
to handle
> traffic better.
>
> Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps
> with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about
100Mbps
> of traffic.
>
> I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would
love to
> compare...
>
> Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any
comparison
> of what the PowerRouters can handle...
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet&  Telecom
>
>
> On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote:
>> Even RB1100 ?
>>
>> That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports...
>>
>> F.
>>
>> On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>> Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at
300-500meg of
>>> traffic...  100meg no problem.
>>>
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>>>
>>> On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
>>>> vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work -
>>>> pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing
price)
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling...
>>>>>
>>>>> There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that
will do
>>>>> what you are looking for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch,
pick your
>>>>> favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP
>>>>>
>>>>> For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at
something with a
>>>>> G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K
on the used
>>>>> market place.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like
redundancy...) cost on
>>>>> the secondary markets about $8 to $10k
>>>>>
>>>>> You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000
>>>>>
>>>>> Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume
little power...
>>>>> Everything else is big and consumes power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use
GigE Switches
>>>>> in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two
Routers
>>>>> located at DataCenters or NOC...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you find some other solution, that can do what you are
looking for,
>>>>> please share it with us, cause we have been looking too...
what I am
>>>>> sharing above with you is what we have found so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>>>> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote:
>>>>>> Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap
Layer 3
>>>>>> switches...
>>>>>> You need to worr

Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?

[Travis Johnson]

  The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u 
ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers...
>Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to
> consider Memory etc etc.).
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf
>
> I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there
> product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they
> do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle
> traffic better.
>
> Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps
> with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps
> of traffic.
>
> I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to
> compare...
>
> Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison
> of what the PowerRouters can handle...
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet&  Telecom
>
>
> On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote:
>> Even RB1100 ?
>>
>> That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports...
>>
>> F.
>>
>> On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>> Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of
>>> traffic...  100meg no problem.
>>>
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>>>
>>> On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
 vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work -
 pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price)

 :-)


 On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:

> Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling...
>
> There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do
> what you are looking for.
>
> Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your
> favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP
>
> For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a
> G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used
> market place.
>
> In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on
> the secondary markets about $8 to $10k
>
> You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000
>
> Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power...
> Everything else is big and consumes power.
>
> Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches
> in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers
> located at DataCenters or NOC...
>
>
> If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for,
> please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am
> sharing above with you is what we have found so far.
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet&   Telecom
>
>
> On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote:
>> Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3
>> switches...
>> You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to
>> RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or
>> greater you aren't going to find that.
>>
>> The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You
>> should be able to get it for $30-50K.
>>
>> Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been
>> known to do.
>> Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at
>> the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route
>> reflector to the customer and vice versa.
>> Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border
>> router/route reflector.
>>
>> Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like
>> the most straightforward solution to me.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt
>> Jenkinsmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net>>
>> wrote:
>>> I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports
>>> with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any
>>> suggestions?
>>>
>>> For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to
>>> support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections
>>> to customers from this ring of backhauls.
>>>
>>> - Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] mikrotik vs ubiquiti

[Travis Johnson]

  To each their own... we use 100% MT on our backbone (over 70 
production links, some up to 73 miles). We are fully routed (even on 
each wireless hop), so using MT works great because I don't have to have 
a separate router like if I used UBNT. I have full telnet, speed test, 
packet sniffing, and routing protocols at EVERY wireless hop (we run OSPF).

And MT didn't build the case that holds an MT radio on a UBNT dish... 
that's a 3rd party thing. I guess it's hilarious that UBNT made a 2ft 
dish because Pac Wireless has had a 2ft dish for 6+ years? :)

Travis
Microserv

On 9/4/2010 8:17 AM, Ralph wrote:
> Yes we are using Ubiquiti instead of Mikrotik.
> We always have, because we will not build our own uncertified gear. If it
> comes down to an interference issue we do not want the FCC fine or the
> stigma of being nailed for violating FCC rules.
>
> That said, we like the routerboards pretty well for use at our hotspots,
> with certified radios. The routerboards have a lot of features.
>
> As far as UBNT goes, the person who said Airmax is a game changer is
> correct.
>
> We are sometimes even able to use UBNT in situations where we might have
> used an Orthagon (sic?)
> We can use narrower channels and get more bandwidth
> When (and I'm sure it is coming) timing/synch becomes available, it will
> frost the cake.
> The support organization listens to users and takes suggestions and doesn't
> break more things than it fixes.
>
> And finally- I think it is absolutely hilarious that the latest MT
> innovation is a device that leverages something that UBNT already developed
> (this routerboard that snaps on a UBNT dish thingie). Of course I would snap
> on a Rocket M5 instead- it has an FCC sticker (ducking).
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Data Technology Said:  I think that several of you are using Ubiquiti AirMax
> Rocket now
> instead of Mikrotik.
>
> I would like to know how they compare:
>   1. As a point to point link.
>   2. As an access point.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] mikrotik vs ubiquiti

[Travis Johnson]

  And even then, it won't be backward compatible with everything else in 
the field. And, you will have to "set" the up/down percentage, etc. just 
like with Canopy... it can't be a "free for all" and still have sync. 
Doesn't work like that. ;)

Travis
Microserv


On 9/4/2010 8:29 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
> Exactly Maybe with the M radios
>
> Sent from my Motorola Startac...
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2010, at 10:19 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>>   Won't happen... at least not with the current radios.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> On 9/3/2010 9:50 PM, Robert West wrote:
>>> UBNT + GPS?!!!
>>>
>>> Stop it!  You're making me think that there may be a brighter future after
>>> all!
>>>
>>> Shame on you for causing me to dream yet again!
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jeromie Reeves
>>> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:28 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] mikrotik vs ubiquiti
>>>
>>> We are already there. I am firmly locked into Ubnt airmax. I tried MT's
>>> NStream, it did not work well for me. I am seeing enough 5ghz noise that I
>>> need airmax (or something like it). I was "this" close to going back to
>>> canopy only because I knew that while slow, it would work. If moto had wised
>>> up and dropped the price of the AP's, I would have, but they want people
>>> that are making 100 and 500 pack orders, not 10's and 20's. Mind you, I had
>>> canopy back in Nehalem days of 01.
>>> Days were good back then and got better when they fixed the NAT, added some
>>> port filters, and a few tweaks. Right till they closed the SM-->   AP 'hole'
>>> in the firmware (gotta love check boxes and hidden web pages). After that it
>>> took some creative firmwares to do it, and they sniffed that one out too.
>>> Everything i've heard about Airmax says it will stand toe to toe with a
>>> canopy ap.
>>> I am glad airmax came when it did, and ubnts 900 is crazy affordable.
>>> If it works half as well in 900 as it does in 5ghz, I will have a medical
>>> condition called 'more then happy'. I have little fear that Ubnt will go
>>> away over night, or start changing the prices of gear like some vendors do,
>>> or suddenly changing the vendor/dealer relationships, or any number of other
>>> games. They just need to step up on delivery capabilities and GPS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Steve Barnes   wrote:
>>>> What I wish is a standardized Linux TDMA mechanisim.  Not airmax nor
>>> nstreame 2, a TDMA that you can use with a cross-vendor mix.  Mikrotik is a
>>> (to me the only) router OS.  Ubiquity is my major Wireless vendor, from
>>> CPE's to the XR2 that go in each Mikrotik AP.  I really like Tranzeos as
>>> well and some have a bunch of Engenius.  There has got to be away to get
>>> these vendors to one day work and make this a standard.  If not all the
>>> sudden we will have a market that requires you to standardize 100% on one
>>> vendor alone.  And that vendor will have you hook line and sinker (like
>>> MOTO).  I like my cross vendor options.
>>>> Steve Barnes
>>>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
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>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>&

Re: [WISPA] mikrotik vs ubiquiti

[Travis Johnson]

  Won't happen... at least not with the current radios.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/3/2010 9:50 PM, Robert West wrote:
> UBNT + GPS?!!!
>
> Stop it!  You're making me think that there may be a brighter future after
> all!
>
> Shame on you for causing me to dream yet again!
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeromie Reeves
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:28 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] mikrotik vs ubiquiti
>
> We are already there. I am firmly locked into Ubnt airmax. I tried MT's
> NStream, it did not work well for me. I am seeing enough 5ghz noise that I
> need airmax (or something like it). I was "this" close to going back to
> canopy only because I knew that while slow, it would work. If moto had wised
> up and dropped the price of the AP's, I would have, but they want people
> that are making 100 and 500 pack orders, not 10's and 20's. Mind you, I had
> canopy back in Nehalem days of 01.
> Days were good back then and got better when they fixed the NAT, added some
> port filters, and a few tweaks. Right till they closed the SM-->  AP 'hole'
> in the firmware (gotta love check boxes and hidden web pages). After that it
> took some creative firmwares to do it, and they sniffed that one out too.
> Everything i've heard about Airmax says it will stand toe to toe with a
> canopy ap.
> I am glad airmax came when it did, and ubnts 900 is crazy affordable.
> If it works half as well in 900 as it does in 5ghz, I will have a medical
> condition called 'more then happy'. I have little fear that Ubnt will go
> away over night, or start changing the prices of gear like some vendors do,
> or suddenly changing the vendor/dealer relationships, or any number of other
> games. They just need to step up on delivery capabilities and GPS.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Steve Barnes  wrote:
>> What I wish is a standardized Linux TDMA mechanisim.  Not airmax nor
> nstreame 2, a TDMA that you can use with a cross-vendor mix.  Mikrotik is a
> (to me the only) router OS.  Ubiquity is my major Wireless vendor, from
> CPE's to the XR2 that go in each Mikrotik AP.  I really like Tranzeos as
> well and some have a bunch of Engenius.  There has got to be away to get
> these vendors to one day work and make this a standard.  If not all the
> sudden we will have a market that requires you to standardize 100% on one
> vendor alone.  And that vendor will have you hook line and sinker (like
> MOTO).  I like my cross vendor options.
>> Steve Barnes
>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>> --
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

[Travis Johnson]

 No... we don't do SLA's for anyone. We have been in business for 15 
years. Our reputation speaks for itself. :)


Travis
Microserv

On 9/1/2010 7:46 PM, Mike wrote:


I like your strategy.  I wish my environment would support such an 
approach.  The chances of several of them demanding the same bandwidth 
at the same time would be slight unless they all start running 
Netflix.  Do you have an SLA that states the terms?


Mike



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:34 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

You monitor your usage on all the links up to, and including your 
backbone. If I have 100Meg from my core to a tower, does that mean I 
can only sell ten 10Meg connections? Not if my usage never goes above 
50Mbps or even 80Mbps. I graph and monitor every single link, 
every port on every switch, etc. and we use that info to know when to 
upgrade links, etc.


Out of five customers with 10Meg connections, only one of them 
actually bumps up against the 10Meg, and that's only for a couple 
hours per day. Businesses never use what they "think" they need... but 
when they run a speed test, they want to see 10Meg. :)


Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 7:21 PM, Mike wrote:

If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU 
$500, how do you make money?  Or is it really oversubscribed?




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection 
(620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my 
hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to 
businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote:

I too would love to know that formula.  I doubt if it would work in 
rural Tama County Iowa.  Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. 
farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint.  My biggest 
obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth.  So even a statement 
that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me.


Friendly Regards,

Mike

  

  
  
  


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Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

[Travis Johnson]

 You monitor your usage on all the links up to, and including your 
backbone. If I have 100Meg from my core to a tower, does that mean I can 
only sell ten 10Meg connections? Not if my usage never goes above 
50Mbps or even 80Mbps. I graph and monitor every single link, every 
port on every switch, etc. and we use that info to know when to upgrade 
links, etc.


Out of five customers with 10Meg connections, only one of them actually 
bumps up against the 10Meg, and that's only for a couple hours per day. 
Businesses never use what they "think" they need... but when they run a 
speed test, they want to see 10Meg. :)


Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 7:21 PM, Mike wrote:


If you are selling dedicated 10M service for $500 and 10M cost YOU 
$500, how do you make money?  Or is it really oversubscribed?




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection 
(620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my 
hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to 
businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote:

I too would love to know that formula.  I doubt if it would work in 
rural Tama County Iowa.  Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. 
farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint.  My biggest 
obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth.  So even a statement 
that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me.


Friendly Regards,

Mike





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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Providers

[Travis Johnson]

  You can almost always get the "new" pricing, if you want to sign a new 
contract for the same as your existing one. I have done that at least 20 
times with Qwest on PRI and T1 lines for customers.

The original poster just said "they won't give me the new pricing". 
Sometimes you have to work at it, but as you said, most of the time they 
are willing to do it if the new contract total value is more than the 
existing contract value.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 6:13 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Not so fast... Sure, if the other party wont let you out of a contract, the
> ethical thing to do is honor it.
> BUT... its not unethical for the two parties involved to mutually agree to
> change an agreement for mutual benefit. Most contracts specifically allow
> that.
> There are many reasons a party might want to let the other party out of a
> contract term or renegotiate it.
>
> A vendor does not benefit if a Buyer goes out of business.
> A Vendor does not benefit if a Buyer is locked in for another year at a high
> rate, if that rate forces the buyer to signup with another provider at a
> lower rate for the rest of enternity.
> Its called "customer retention".  When the market changes sometime contracts
> need to adapt with the new market conditions.
> One must also ask what it might cost to inforce a contract, and sometimes
> taht is more than the revenue that would be discounted by keeping the
> custoemr happy and retained long term and paying on time.
>
> I'm not going to mention any names, but at ISPCON, someone I considered a
> mentor spoke at a session, and what he learned was So what if there is a
> contract... Hold out, and convince your vendors why they should work with
> you on price. While under contract, he was able to get most vendors to lower
> prices, for mutual benefit.
>
> Admittedly, ATT is not like a company that would easily budge on contract
> terms, expecially in an underserved area where they are a near monopoly, but
> it doesn't mean that they wont.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson"
> To: "WISPA General List"
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Providers
>
>
>>   So what you are saying is that YOU shouldn't have to uphold YOUR end
>> of the contract? How does that make sense?
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/2010 1:41 PM, Eric Rogers wrote:
>>> I am looking for multiple connections to the internet.  We currently
>>> have AT&T Fiber and IPs.  We want to look at redundancy in terms of
>>> becoming a BGP peer, and purchasing our own IP addresses.  The ONLY
>>> other provider in our area is Comcast.  Has anyone worked with them to
>>> do any BGP peering?
>>>
>>> What really rocked my boat was that I am seeing new ISPs signing up with
>>> AT&T Opt-E-Man with 100 MB circuits for $2600/mo.  That is less than
>>> what I am paying for my 50 MB circuit.  I called my sales rep and they
>>> stated that I could get a 100 MB circuit for $4200/mo and because I am
>>> under contract for another year, there is nothing they can do for
>>> price...so pretty much they are saying to me that they want new
>>> customers, and anyone under contract they can gouge as long as I am
>>> under contract...
>>>
>>> When can we get rid of these monopolies?!?!?
>>>
>>> Eric Rogers
>>> Precision Data Solutions, LLC
>>> (317) 831-3000 x200
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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> ---

Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

[Travis Johnson]

 I have two OC-3 connections (155Mbps) and one OC-12 connection 
(620Mbps)... and even at those levels, I still average $50/meg as my 
hard cost. I am selling 10Mbps x 10Mbps dedicated connections to 
businesses and schools, etc. for $500/month.


Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 5:34 PM, Mike wrote:


I too would love to know that formula.  I doubt if it would work in 
rural Tama County Iowa.  Most businesses are agribusiness (i.e. 
farmers) and I already have most of them in my footprint.  My biggest 
obstacle right now is finding cheap bandwidth.  So even a statement 
that bandwidth is cheap right now does not apply to me.


Friendly Regards,

Mike



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg

*Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:26 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

I wish I had $500/mth business customers to sign up everyday!
Regards,

Chuck

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Travis Johnson <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


 Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is
CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business...

I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache
proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business
connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may
save me. And I can do this every day. :)

Travis
Microserv



On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another 
box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer 
support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the 
traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.).
> Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create 
an ACL to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching 
all content by default, then create an ACL which only allows caching 
of sites you choose.

>
> If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then 
use TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this 
your proxy can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were 
sourced directly from a client instead of your Squid box.

>
> Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your 
Squid box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, 
and your users continue to surf the web normally.

>
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
>
>
> 

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Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

[Travis Johnson]

  Been there, done ALL of that. Not worth the headaches. Bandwidth is 
CHEAP now... time is still the most valuable thing in this business...

I can spend hours messing, tweaking, fighting, adjusting, etc. a cache 
proxy, or in that same amount of time I can go install a business 
connection for $500/month and pay for ANY additional bandwidth it may 
save me. And I can do this every day. :)

Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 2:29 PM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
>> Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another box or 
>> two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer support calls, 
>> web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the traffic from your 
>> network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.).
> Its possible to prevent Squid from caching certain sites. Just create an ACL 
> to deny caching them. Still too much to maintain? Deny caching all content by 
> default, then create an ACL which only allows caching of sites you choose.
>
> If you don't want your proxy requests sourced from a single IP then use 
> TProxy (http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/Tproxy4). With this your proxy 
> can be fully transparent appearing as if the requests were sourced directly 
> from a client instead of your Squid box.
>
> Get a Cisco router and redirect traffic to Squid using WCCP. If your Squid 
> box dies the router automatically stops redirecting the traffic, and your 
> users continue to surf the web normally.
>
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Providers

[Travis Johnson]

  So what you are saying is that YOU shouldn't have to uphold YOUR end 
of the contract? How does that make sense?

Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 1:41 PM, Eric Rogers wrote:
> I am looking for multiple connections to the internet.  We currently
> have AT&T Fiber and IPs.  We want to look at redundancy in terms of
> becoming a BGP peer, and purchasing our own IP addresses.  The ONLY
> other provider in our area is Comcast.  Has anyone worked with them to
> do any BGP peering?
>
> What really rocked my boat was that I am seeing new ISPs signing up with
> AT&T Opt-E-Man with 100 MB circuits for $2600/mo.  That is less than
> what I am paying for my 50 MB circuit.  I called my sales rep and they
> stated that I could get a 100 MB circuit for $4200/mo and because I am
> under contract for another year, there is nothing they can do for
> price...so pretty much they are saying to me that they want new
> customers, and anyone under contract they can gouge as long as I am
> under contract...
>
> When can we get rid of these monopolies?!?!?
>
> Eric Rogers
> Precision Data Solutions, LLC
> (317) 831-3000 x200
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Akamai / other caching servers

[Travis Johnson]

 Yes, but the bandwidth savings are not worth the headaches (another 
box or two to maintain, some sites don't like to be cached, customer 
support calls, web sites blocking a certain IP address because ALL the 
traffic from your network is coming from the cache server IP, etc.).


Unless you are paying a FORTUNE for bandwidth, it's not worth doing.

Travis
Microserv


On 9/1/2010 12:17 AM, Scott Carullo wrote:
Could a squid caching server accomplish the same sort of bandwidth 
savings, maybe more due to the fact it is caching ALL the content not 
just Akamai?  I've never use used a web cahce always had the bandwidth 
and the problems were not worth it


Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102






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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Travis Johnson]

Already do takes 1-2Mbps at peak times.

Travis
Microserv


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Host a server for speedtest.net

 

 


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson

*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 4:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

 

Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" 
bandwidth available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(


Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote:

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?
 
Maybe help the community with content distribution.
 
Josh Luthman

Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
 
 
 
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman  <mailto:d...@willitsonline.com> wrote:
  

Hey there
 
   As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are people doing with the excess outbound capacity?
 
Thanks
 
Don
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

[Travis Johnson]

The reservation in our area put an actual ordinance in effect that bans 
all "outdoor antennas" on any structure (including their homes, sheds, 
garages, barns, etc.). We still do installs there (along with 2 or 3 
other providers), but technically they could enforce it.


The reason? Because they are going to do their "own" internet, TV and 
VoIP solution... they have only been talking about it for almost 6+ 
years and have not installed a single piece of equipment. They have two 
nice water towers, and a nice tower up on a 500ft tall butte right in 
the middle of their area... but they won't allow ANYONE on any of it 
because "they" are going to do it.


This is the EXACT reason the tribes are SO FAR behind, and can't compete 
in the real world. They won't allow us to bring them technology that 
would help all their people. Instead they just built a huge new Tribal 
headquarters and are trying to get money to build a huge gambling casino.


Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:
I tried to, but it fell through.They chose to spend a HUGE amount 
of money for Fiber to the curb and try to administer it themselves, 
rather than about 15% of the cost for me to bring in broadband and 
maintain it.   As far as I know, it has been a disaster, but they're 
now so invested in it they won't change.This is a very small 
reservation, and they only wanted to get broadband to the most densely 
populated part of it.   I may still end up putting in wireless to the 
"remote" parts, since lots of non-indians live out there. 
 
 
 
 
++

Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
541-969-8200  509-386-4589
++

*From:* Rick Harnish 
*Sent:* Friday, August 13, 2010 12:28 PM
*To:* memb...@wispa.org  ; 'WISPA General 
List'  ; motor...@afmug.com 


*Cc:* 'A Goldman' 
*Subject:* [WISPA] Broadband work with Indian Reservation

I will be attending a Strategy Meeting in New York later this month 
which is hosted by NABA (Native American Broadband Association and 
Intersections International).  Alex Goldman will be covering these 
meetings as well.  Between now and then, I would like to hear from 
WISPs across the country that may have worked with Indian tribes in 
the past or are presently working with them.  Part of Alex's articles 
will focus on how private ISPs are successfully working with the 
Indian Nation, however I would also like to hear the downside of 
anyone's experiences.  NABA has reached out to WISPA to develop 
alliances and collaboration, both on the lobbying front and the 
development of public/private partnerships so that many of the grants 
awarded to the Indian tribes will have a good local ISP partner to 
assist in the implementation of the projects. 

 

If your ISP business is near a reservation, I would like to hear from 
you in the next week. 

 


Respectfully,

 


*Rick Harnish*

Executive Director

WISPA

260-307-4000 cell

866-317-2851 WISPA Office

Skype: rick.harnish.

rharn...@wispa.org

 






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Re: [WISPA] What to do with outbound bandwidth

[Travis Johnson]

Ya we currently have over 200Mbps of available "outgoing" bandwidth 
available and we already do hosting and co-location. :(


Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote:

Servers...game servers, voice (teamspeak/ventrilo) servers...?

Maybe help the community with content distribution.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Don Grossman  wrote:
  

Hey there

   As we get larger and larger pipes in to feed our customers what are 
people doing with the excess outbound capacity?

Thanks

Don



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Re: [WISPA] OT: "Tape" backup

[Travis Johnson]

SATA drive in external case with USB.

Travis
Microserv

Jason Hensley wrote:
> What are you guys using for "Tape" backup options?  Prefer something SCSI to
> replace existing tape drive that has failed.  I just personally hate tape.  
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Note of support for the WISPA Regional Meeting

[Travis Johnson]

I think we should start the chant now Randy...

VEGAS...
VEGAS...
VEGAS...
V-E-G-A-S... :)

Travis
Microserv


Randy Cosby wrote:
> Are there plans for other regional meetings - like in Utah, Vegas or 
> Colorado?
>
>   



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Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign

[Travis Johnson]

Yes.

Travis


RickG wrote:
> Would you leave the AP in bridge mode and let the "tower router" take
> care of the routing?
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>   
>> One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each "tower" rather
>> than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then
>> into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the
>> entire subnet before adding another. ;)
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Alan Bryant wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> Hi Alan,
>>>>
>>>> We're in the process of doing this too.
>>>>
>>>> We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's.  Mikrotik
>>>> in our case.
>>>>
>>>> For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite
>>>> sides of the network).
>>>>
>>>> We were able to get 8 class c's this way.  We're also subnetting a LOT of
>>>> network space.
>>>>
>>>> When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP
>>>> and route it as well.  Shouldn't be too big of a deal.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps!
>>>> marlonMarlon (and others),
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I
>>> said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign

[Travis Johnson]

One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each "tower" rather 
than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then 
into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the 
entire subnet before adding another. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Alan Bryant wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer  
> wrote:
>   
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> We're in the process of doing this too.
>>
>> We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's.  Mikrotik
>> in our case.
>>
>> For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite
>> sides of the network).
>>
>> We were able to get 8 class c's this way.  We're also subnetting a LOT of
>> network space.
>>
>> When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP
>> and route it as well.  Shouldn't be too big of a deal.
>>
>> Hope that helps!
>> marlonMarlon (and others),
>> 
>
> Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I
> said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign.
>
>   



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Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed

[Travis Johnson]

Keep pushing your upstream(s) to get it fixed. Daily calls.

We had the same issue with our 69.20.128 block about 6 years ago... 
apparently the entire 69 block used to be "unrouteable" IP space until 
ARIN opened it up and starting giving it out to poor suckers (like 
me)... the problem was most providers didn't take it out of their filters.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right.
>
> 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x
>
> My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on the 
> issue (that's where a trace route dies).
>
> We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to 
> be dumping into a black hole.
>
> I've GOT to get my addresses online.  We're completely out of space on two 
> of our class c's.
>
> Any ideas for me?
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?

[Travis Johnson]

I voted for Las Vegas as well. If you can find a time when things aren't 
busy (in Vegas), stuff is really cheap.

Travis
Microserv

MDK wrote:
> I've never been to any WISP or ISP "con" of any kind.   Wanted to, but never 
> had the dough to go.
>
> First, St Louis?   Why?   Go to Las Vegas and do it in early November. 
> There's a cheap way to get to Vegas from anywhere in the US, especially at 
> that time of the year.
>
> Heck,  round  trip from the pacific northwest is under 200 bucks.   Also 
> from most larger places in most states there's something cheap to Vegas.
>
> Rooms are cheap, travels's cheap, rental cars are $25 a day or less.
>
> St Louis is never going to be an option.   Orlando, maybe - at least I own a 
> timeshare there.   Vegas,  maybe.You want people to come?   Go some 
> place it doesn't cost an arm and leg to get to, stay at, or get home.
>
> Just my mumblings on a late Sunday evening.
>
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
> --
> From: "Rick Harnish" 
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM
> To: ; "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
>
>   
>> Members and WISP followers,
>>
>>
>>
>> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you
>> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting
>> Agenda.  As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st 
>> and
>> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we 
>> have
>> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our
>> Regional Meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that
>> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the 
>> first
>> stages of signup.  We originally picked St. Louis because of its central
>> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP
>> companies throughout the Central US.  We really anticipated that 70% of 
>> our
>> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. 
>> Louis.
>> This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this
>> to be the case.
>>
>>
>>
>> My first inclination is to blame it on weather.  I realize that weather in
>> the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent
>> storms continually moving across the region.  I am asking if this is 
>> really
>> the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this 
>> meeting
>> or not.  If it is something else, I would like to investigate further.  We
>> believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, 
>> money
>> and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. 
>> We
>> are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get
>> there, we need to start preparing now.  As you may or may not know, we do
>> have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st.  It would
>> be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees.
>>
>>
>>
>> This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting
>> facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis.  The Renaissance 
>> actually
>> lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free
>> internet, parking and shuttle.  These concessions are saving our
>> participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel.  The catering and AV
>> budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members.
>>
>>
>>
>> Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or 
>> not
>> intending and send a brief description why.  If it is summer vacation, 
>> that
>> is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates.  If it is 
>> summer
>> activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just let 
>> me
>> know.  If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book because
>> of excessive repair bills, that is also fine.  I am just trying to get a
>> feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this 
>> meeting
>> and possibly plan the next one.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know.  I would
>> rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and programs to
>> alleviate these concerns as we move forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>> President
>>
>> WISPA
>>
>> 260-307-4000 cell
>>
>> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office
>>
>> Skype: rick.harnish.
>>
>> rharn...@wispa.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem

[Travis Johnson]

Yes, we see 6-8db fluctuations during temperature changes... but that's 
an 18ghz frequency thing, not specific to Trango. We also saw the same 
changes with our Dragonwave 18ghz links.

Travis
Microserv

Scott Carullo wrote:
> Make sure you don't use RPS, the ports will not come back up once they 
> drop.  Confirmed with Trango support this is a problem still.  Other than 
> that ours are working nicely, and the ATPC and modulation shifting are 
> doing excellent.  Other than that we are still getting use to the APEX gear 
> but are happy so far with the performance... ~250MB FDX almost 25 miles.  
> Modulation has dropped in rain but link never stopped passing traffic.  
> Looks like its more sensitive to temp inversion fluctuations than 5Ghz but 
> one side is at 1200ft so it may have something to do with that as its 
> higher than we have ever put gear around here.
>
> Good luck fixing your problem, report back once you figure it out.
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
> 
>
> From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:37 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem
>
> 1. 17dBm / 17 dBm
> 2. Speed is the same on both sides.
> 3. (trango-view)# linktest 1
> LOCK   RSSI  MSEBER TX
> RX
> 1> 1  -41.10 dBm  -34.40 dB   0.00E+00256QAM
> 256QAM
> (trango-view)#
>
> (trango-config)# linktest 1
> LOCK   RSSI  MSEBER TX R
> X
> 1> 1  -38.30 dBm  -34.90 dB   0.00E+00256QAM
>  2
> 56QAM
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>   
>> Did you check:
>>
>> (1) power level on each side
>> (2) speed settings (same modulation and channel size on each side)
>> (3) what does the linktest show on each side?
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> can...@believewireless.net wrote:
>> 
>>> We can access the units via their IBM addresses but they won't pass
>>> traffic.  We have rebooted the radios, power cycled them, and nothing
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, the Mikrotik on one end of the link is showing up in
>>> the neighbor list.  So something is getting through.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
>   
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Re: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

During the upgrade process, did it give any errors? You did all 4 or 5 
files, correct? Have you tried doing them again and re-flashing each one 
as you go?

Travis


can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> 1. 17dBm / 17 dBm
> 2. Speed is the same on both sides.
> 3. (trango-view)# linktest 1
> LOCK   RSSI  MSEBER TX
>  RX
>   1> 1  -41.10 dBm  -34.40 dB   0.00E+00256QAM
>  256QAM
> (trango-view)#
>
>
> (trango-config)# linktest 1
> LOCK   RSSI  MSEBER TX
>  R
> X
>   1> 1  -38.30 dBm  -34.90 dB   0.00E+00256QAM
>  2
> 56QAM
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>   
>> Did you check:
>>
>> (1) power level on each side
>> (2) speed settings (same modulation and channel size on each side)
>> (3) what does the linktest show on each side?
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> can...@believewireless.net wrote:
>> 
>>> We can access the units via their IBM addresses but they won't pass
>>> traffic.  We have rebooted the radios, power cycled them, and nothing
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, the Mikrotik on one end of the link is showing up in
>>> the neighbor list.  So something is getting through.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>>>   
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem

[Travis Johnson]

That firmware has been out for almost 6 months now... no other updates 
during that time.

Travis


Josh Luthman wrote:
> I think Trango users have to so that it fixes auto rate modulating.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:24 PM,   wrote:
>   
>> Sorry I can't help but is it me or do I see a lot of posts on these units 
>> regarding firmware changes.
>>
>> I can't remember the last time I did a firmware upgrade on a licensed link.
>>
>> -B-
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
>> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 23:07:01
>> To: ; WISPA General List
>> Reply-To: can...@believewireless.net, WISPA General List 
>> Subject: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem
>>
>> We just upgraded one of our 18GHz links to 1.2.3 and now it won't pass
>> traffic.  We can get into both sides but nothing is going between
>> them. They show a link and linktest is working, just nothing is
>> passing.
>>
>> Toggled back to the previous firmware and that didn't fix it either.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] ANOTHER Apex firmware upgrade problem

[Travis Johnson]

Did you check:

(1) power level on each side
(2) speed settings (same modulation and channel size on each side)
(3) what does the linktest show on each side?

Travis
Microserv

can...@believewireless.net wrote:
> We can access the units via their IBM addresses but they won't pass
> traffic.  We have rebooted the radios, power cycled them, and nothing
> happens.
>
> Interestingly, the Mikrotik on one end of the link is showing up in
> the neighbor list.  So something is getting through.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Network Redesign

[Travis Johnson]

Just in case a DHCP server goes crazy at the show...

You can never be too careful you know...

Travis


Mike Hammett wrote:
> I think it's more alarming that Interop has a /8.  Something that's only 
> open 4 times a year needs 16 million IPs?
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 6/25/2010 5:03 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>   
>> I think you mean Ford?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IP_address_blocks
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>> continue that counts.”
>> --- Winston Churchill
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> It's not that easy anymore. Seven years ago when we applied to get our
>>> first ARIN block, it took about 2-3 days and some paperwork. We got a
>>> /18 without too much trouble.
>>>
>>> A year ago, we started the process to get another block. This took over
>>> a month, with over 30 emails back and forth, and even then they would
>>> only allocate us a /20 because that's all we would need for the next 2
>>> years. When I asked about year 3 and on, they said "re-apply for more
>>> space then".
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, places like Mercedes have a /8 and they are using less than
>>> 1% of it. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>>
>>> Bradley D. Thornton wrote:
>>>  
>>>   
>>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/25/2010 2:21 PM, Alan Bryant wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> We do not have them from ARIN, but we are in the process of getting
>>>>> more from our upstream. ARIN will not give us any until we are
>>>>> multi-homed or have at least a /20 I think they said.
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>   
>>>> Getting new blocks from you upstream should take them about 10 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> I recommend you go straight to ARIN and do the justification for a /16.
>>>>
>>>> um... Just think about your network as it will be in ten years, at your
>>>> current rate of expansion, and then project your need ahead two months
>>>> instead of 10 years, and you'll be fine.
>>>>
>>>> I got all my /24 and /16 NET-BLKs from nic.ddn.mil under direct
>>>> assignment a couple of decades ago, but they were requiring
>>>> justifications even when it was internic.net, before ARIN.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, we haven't run out yet, I'm just trying to get an idea and
>>>>> plan for what we will do if we run out on a single AP or tower
>>>>> location. I've never encountered anything like that, and have not
>>>>> found anything in my limited searching that is similar enough to give
>>>>> me an idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>   
>>>>>> If you're getting your IPs from ARIN and are running out, clearly you
>>>>>> can justify another block.  Is there not enough time for this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>>>>> continue that counts.”
>>>>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Alan Bryant
>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our
>>>>>>> upstream all the way to the customer.
>>>>>>>
>>>&

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Network Redesign

[Travis Johnson]

Dang... I thought I was losing my mind, because your list didn't include 
MB. However, after doing a search I found this...

http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/02/13/where-did-all-the-ip-numbers-go-the-us-department-of-defense-has-them/

Mercedes actually goes by "Cap debis css".

I knew MB had a /8, because I remember an article in Time magazine a 
while ago that they were going to assign a static IP address to every 
single car they produced. Not sure if that ever happened, but that was 
their plan 5 years ago.

Travis
Microserv


Josh Luthman wrote:
> I think you mean Ford?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IP_address_blocks
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>   
>> It's not that easy anymore. Seven years ago when we applied to get our
>> first ARIN block, it took about 2-3 days and some paperwork. We got a
>> /18 without too much trouble.
>>
>> A year ago, we started the process to get another block. This took over
>> a month, with over 30 emails back and forth, and even then they would
>> only allocate us a /20 because that's all we would need for the next 2
>> years. When I asked about year 3 and on, they said "re-apply for more
>> space then".
>>
>> Meanwhile, places like Mercedes have a /8 and they are using less than
>> 1% of it. :(
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> Bradley D. Thornton wrote:
>> 
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/25/2010 2:21 PM, Alan Bryant wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> We do not have them from ARIN, but we are in the process of getting
>>>> more from our upstream. ARIN will not give us any until we are
>>>> multi-homed or have at least a /20 I think they said.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> Getting new blocks from you upstream should take them about 10 minutes.
>>>
>>> I recommend you go straight to ARIN and do the justification for a /16.
>>>
>>> um... Just think about your network as it will be in ten years, at your
>>> current rate of expansion, and then project your need ahead two months
>>> instead of 10 years, and you'll be fine.
>>>
>>> I got all my /24 and /16 NET-BLKs from nic.ddn.mil under direct
>>> assignment a couple of decades ago, but they were requiring
>>> justifications even when it was internic.net, before ARIN.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> Anyway, we haven't run out yet, I'm just trying to get an idea and
>>>> plan for what we will do if we run out on a single AP or tower
>>>> location. I've never encountered anything like that, and have not
>>>> found anything in my limited searching that is similar enough to give
>>>> me an idea.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Josh Luthman
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> If you're getting your IPs from ARIN and are running out, clearly you
>>>>> can justify another block.  Is there not enough time for this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>>>> continue that counts.”
>>>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Alan Bryant
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>> We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our
>>>>>> upstream all the way to the customer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network.
>>>>>> Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting
>>>>>> it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower
>>>>>> and subnetting all t

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Network Redesign

[Travis Johnson]

It's not that easy anymore. Seven years ago when we applied to get our 
first ARIN block, it took about 2-3 days and some paperwork. We got a 
/18 without too much trouble.

A year ago, we started the process to get another block. This took over 
a month, with over 30 emails back and forth, and even then they would 
only allocate us a /20 because that's all we would need for the next 2 
years. When I asked about year 3 and on, they said "re-apply for more 
space then".

Meanwhile, places like Mercedes have a /8 and they are using less than 
1% of it. :(

Travis
Microserv


Bradley D. Thornton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
>
>
> On 6/25/2010 2:21 PM, Alan Bryant wrote:
>   
>> We do not have them from ARIN, but we are in the process of getting
>> more from our upstream. ARIN will not give us any until we are
>> multi-homed or have at least a /20 I think they said.
>> 
>
> Getting new blocks from you upstream should take them about 10 minutes.
>
> I recommend you go straight to ARIN and do the justification for a /16.
>
> um... Just think about your network as it will be in ten years, at your
> current rate of expansion, and then project your need ahead two months
> instead of 10 years, and you'll be fine.
>
> I got all my /24 and /16 NET-BLKs from nic.ddn.mil under direct
> assignment a couple of decades ago, but they were requiring
> justifications even when it was internic.net, before ARIN.
>
>   
>> Anyway, we haven't run out yet, I'm just trying to get an idea and
>> plan for what we will do if we run out on a single AP or tower
>> location. I've never encountered anything like that, and have not
>> found anything in my limited searching that is similar enough to give
>> me an idea.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Josh Luthman
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> If you're getting your IPs from ARIN and are running out, clearly you
>>> can justify another block.  Is there not enough time for this?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>> continue that counts.”
>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Alan Bryant
>>>  wrote:
>>>   
 We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our
 upstream all the way to the customer.

 Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network.
 Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting
 it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is.

 We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower
 and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public
 IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what
 is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or
 tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without
 renumbering everything?

 I appreciate any and all responses on or off list. Let me know if more
 information is needed to give better answers.

 -
 Official list of the Animal Farm Motorola Users Group - www.afmug.com




 
>>> -
>>> Official list of the Animal Farm Motorola Users Group - www.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> 
>
> - -- 
> Bradley D. Thornton
> Manager Network Services
> NorthTech Computer
> TEL: +1.760.666.2703  (US)
> TEL: +44.702.405.1909 (UK)
> http://NorthTech.US
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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> =KUIB
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Apex firmware upgrade problem

[Travis Johnson]

You turned on tftp on the radio first, right?

tftpd on

Travis
Microserv

Scott Carullo wrote:
> Maybe I'm doing (or not doing) something simple, but I am unable to tftp 
> upgrade files to either of the APEX radios on either side of a link.  torch 
> shows my computer trying to connect but no data back from either radio and 
> tftp command times out without success.
>
> Current version info below.  Tried rebooting, using another computer on 
> another subnet, turning opmode off etc - nothing works I cannot get the 
> radio to accept a file via tftp.  Any ideas?
>
> Current
> Image Version
> FPGA version:   00151209
> OS version: 2p6r14b3D08200901
> FW version: 1p2r2D082009
> PIC version:217
> Modem version:  38
> RFM version:27
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?

[Travis Johnson]

I think you meant "our (non-FCC approved) own design and manufacture 
slotted waveguide sector".

Travis


Chuck Profito wrote:
> I stand corrected, dumbfounded and humbled.
>
> BTW  how about a photo and spec on that " our own design and manufacture
> slotted waveguide sector"
>
>
> Chuck Profito
> 209-988-7388
> CV-Access, Inc.
> www.cv-access.com / cprofito'at'cv-access.com  
> Providing Broadband Internet Access to 
> California's Rural Central Valley
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of MDK
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:51 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>
> NOT.All my access points are star-os based, and I use NO amps anywhere, 
> and with the exception of one long point to point link, no high power cards,
>
> either.   ( that link is now out of production, replaced by ubnt rocketm5 
> and solid dishes.  )
>
> netbook end, is whatever atheros based card it comes with, the access point 
> is a WLM54SAG, not the high power version, and set at default output, 
> connected to our own design and manufacture slotted waveguide sector.
>
> For many years, it was a CM9 at the AP, but last year it started behaving 
> strange,  and it got replaced.
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
> --
> From: "Chuck Profito" 
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:03 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>
>   
>> probably a ruckus on the other end
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of MDK
>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:16 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>>
>> This evening I was at one of my access points... one that has several
>> backhauls and various 2.4 and 5 ghz ap's at it.
>>
>> After I was done with my few minutes of doing things, I wanted to make 
>> sure
>> I had not physically disconnected or accidentally unhooked anything 
>> (messing
>>
>> with the batteries, checking water levels, etc).I pulled out a 
>> netbook.
>> Acer Aspire One to be precise, running windows xp, using the normal wifi
>> card it came with.   I fired it up (it is set to "any" so it simply
>> associates to the access points that are open at home, work, etc), and 
>> after
>>
>> I was done, noted it said it was connected, at which point I opened google
>> on the browser to confirm connectivity.   Google popped up, meaning things
>> were connected, and then I decided to run a speed test.   I got about 
>> 30KB/s
>>
>> speed, which is like painfully slow.   I was standing outside, with the
>> netbook sitting on the hood of my truck.
>>
>> So, I decided to see what it was associated to, and it was another access
>> point ...  11 MILES AWAY!   I confirmed it by the SSID and by the ip dhcp
>> had assigned, as belonging to the ap 11 miles distant.
>>
>> It has no external antenna, just the one the factory built into the 
>> netbook.
>>
>> I have detected, using netstumbler and the internal antenna on my laptop
>> (dell C610 and CM9 installed) access points over 24 miles away before, but
>> this is the longest, by far, I have been able to get a real connection, 
>> dhcp
>>
>> assignment, and transfer data.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++
>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
>> ++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
>   
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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti - Success Feels Good

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

I would still like to know what it's going to do when an entire 
polarization gets jammed with noise? Will the radio still pass traffic? 
Or will there be so many errors that it will overtake the link and 
nothing will work?

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> I jsut wanted to mention, that it really does give peice of mind knowing 
> that there is a MIMO technology out there that I can count on, that is 
> inexpensive.
> I just finished my 4th Ubiquiti PTP link (over last two weeks).  Once again, 
> Painless and perfect.
> I got 38mb one way 22mb the other with 10Mhz Channel MCS 15.  And with 20Mhz 
> channel up to 69mbps one way, and 80 the other.
> Link Quality nad Capacity showed like 96%.  LAtency was also down under 2ms.
> But my point here is not the speed. It was that it was easy. I just put it 
> up, and it worked. Air view was helpful, finding channel. All 4 installs 
> worked that way. No hassle, no fuss.
> This last one was a 15 mile link, Rocket5M on each side, with PACWireless 
> 2ft dish on one end and a 23 db panel on the other.
> Nothing has ever been this easy.
>
> With that said There were some confusing things. I ran V on Chain0, and 
> H on Chain1 got -66, then for grins swapped conectors on CPE side only, so 
> Chain0 was H and Chain1 was V and got -65.
> I do not understand why this happened. I would have thought signal should 
> have dropped by -20 db or so? Wierd. This did not just happen when in 
> Alignment mode. I may have been in MCS7 mode at the time though.
> So it appears it must be transmitting on both pols in MCS7 mode, I dont have 
> any other way to explain it. But none the less, it just worked.
>
> I'm concern about using it at PtMP, because we use Station WDS, and AP only 
> supports up to 6 WDS clients. So it wont scale for PTMP Briding clients. 
> Unless that can be curred. But I tell you for PTP, or a couple associations, 
> its pretty sweet.
>
> (I still like T-Link-45s better when I only need 25-30mbps, but  the UBNT 
> has shown to be a wonderful experience, also.)
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?

[Travis Johnson]

with a 1W amp.

Chuck Profito wrote:
> probably a ruckus on the other end
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of MDK
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:16 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>
> This evening I was at one of my access points... one that has several 
> backhauls and various 2.4 and 5 ghz ap's at it.
>
> After I was done with my few minutes of doing things, I wanted to make sure 
> I had not physically disconnected or accidentally unhooked anything (messing
>
> with the batteries, checking water levels, etc).I pulled out a netbook. 
> Acer Aspire One to be precise, running windows xp, using the normal wifi 
> card it came with.   I fired it up (it is set to "any" so it simply 
> associates to the access points that are open at home, work, etc), and after
>
> I was done, noted it said it was connected, at which point I opened google 
> on the browser to confirm connectivity.   Google popped up, meaning things 
> were connected, and then I decided to run a speed test.   I got about 30KB/s
>
> speed, which is like painfully slow.   I was standing outside, with the 
> netbook sitting on the hood of my truck.
>
> So, I decided to see what it was associated to, and it was another access 
> point ...  11 MILES AWAY!   I confirmed it by the SSID and by the ip dhcp 
> had assigned, as belonging to the ap 11 miles distant.
>
> It has no external antenna, just the one the factory built into the netbook.
>
> I have detected, using netstumbler and the internal antenna on my laptop 
> (dell C610 and CM9 installed) access points over 24 miles away before, but 
> this is the longest, by far, I have been able to get a real connection, dhcp
>
> assignment, and transfer data.
>
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Trango APEX data / mgmt cable connection question

[Travis Johnson]

We use what is provided by Trango. We have never sealed or 
weatherproofed them.

Travis
Microserv


Scott Carullo wrote:
> Those of you that use this equipment do you recommend using the supplied 
> connectors for ethernet only or do you seal around them with additional 
> material like coax seal or similar?  
>
> I have never liked connectors that have cables enter from the sides into 
> the equipment even with the fancy seal connectors provided.  I just don't 
> want to have a problem and was curious what you guys do to keep the water 
> out or if what is provided is sufficient.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] legal entity type - was taxes

[Travis Johnson]

The other thing to remember is with a corporation, technically you are 
not self-employed... which can make a big difference when trying to get 
personal loans, etc.

Travis
Microserv


Travis Johnson wrote:
> Yes. The corporation is it's own "entity". Everyone is an employee of 
> the corporation.
>
> Travis
>
>
> RickG wrote:
>   
>> Same subject, different question: Are you an employee of the corp?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> We are an S-corp and have been since the first day we started. It
>>> provides personal protection against people suing you, etc. It also
>>> allows expenses by the corporation that may or may not be allowed as a
>>> sole proprietor (additional office locations, etc.).
>>>
>>> Again, you would need to check with your accountant. They are the only
>>> ones that can give you exact information.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> RickG wrote:
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> Its tempting to use a known CPA that is versed in our industry but
>>>> I've had issues dealing with those out of state. With that said, I'm
>>>> curious as to feedback on another issue. Who here is doing business as
>>>> a "sole proprietor"? I've been an "S-Corp" for years but considering
>>>> switching back due to its simplicity. This Corp stuff doesnt seem
>>>> worth all the hassle.
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Marlon K. Schafer  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm with Travis on this one.  Sometimes we take the entire hit at once,
>>>>> other times we spread it out.  It kind of depends on what we need for
>>>>> deductions and what the equipment is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our accountant has taken a lot of time to learn this industry and is 
>>>>> really
>>>>> good.  The phone number is 509.982.2922 if anyone is looking for a good 
>>>>> one.
>>>>>
>>>>> laters,
>>>>> marlon
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: "RickG" 
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] taxes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>>> Travis, thanks for your input. I'm really looking for feedback as to
>>>>>> what our industry's standard is. I submit that the IRS does not look
>>>>>> at it as a "personal, business choice". I'd rather do it correctly now
>>>>>> than find out from the IRS I'm doing it wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is a personal, business choice. There is no set answer. Some of our
>>>>>>> equipment we expense and some we depreciate. It all depends on what tax
>>>>>>> breaks you need now vs. later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Travis
>>>>>>> Microserv
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RickG wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> Everyone's favorite subject :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm getting mixed information form my accountants on this and want to
>>>>>>>> know what everyone else is doing. The basic question is this: Are you
>>>>>>>> expensing or depreciating the equipment? Equipment being radios (AP &
>>>>>>>> CPE), antennas, switches, firewalls, etc.
>>>>>>>> With the cost of the electronics being so low, its not making much
>>>>>>>> sense to depreciate. Which takes me to a second question: Have any
>>>>>>>> WISPs been audited by the IRS for this reason?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance! -RickG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>