Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Man, it sounds like you need a business plan to get out of that town. Your network, I mean. You'll most likely need to either sell out, buy out the other WISP, or branch out either with your wireless network or establish a POP in another town. Do one of these things before you get burned out. 900MHz won't be like 2.4GHz. You won't have the distances which means more APs and backhauls and your CPE will be more expensive for those shorter hops as well. This I'm sure you've heard. Use the omnis for your area...seems appropriate. No geek war needed there. ;) Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Let me add a little about what I have to work with. There are 4036 people in the township which is my main coverage area (I fork out a little, but the number are inline with these). 2,288 have access to DSL and Cable. This leaves 1748 people to go after. How many of those want broadband? I just did a quick google and the only number I saw said 30% of rural Americans have broadband. So I'll go with that for my number of who wants it. 30% is about 500 people. I guess this means my township that is 36 square miles has almost 15 subscribers per square mile that are ripe for the picking. And then add the fact that there are 2 total WISPs in this area. Cut the subs in half. I have 7 subs per square mile to go hook up. Wait, it seems like 50% of my site surveys fail due to the darn trees, at least I can still get those 3.5 subs per square mile. :) Now that I have given a little more info, do you guys still recommend sectors? Brian Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
900Mhz noise sources: 1) Paging Systems 2) Other 900Mhz-based Broadband providers 3) Cordless Telephones 4) SCADA (utility monitoring and management systems) 5) Meter Readers 6) Power or Pipeline Companies (often used for non-SCADA-based monitoring) 7) Other consumer devices (baby monitors, cordless headphones, cordless speakers) 8) licensed usage of segments of 902-928Mhz 9) Old cell towers? - Larry - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joe Laura [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain I hear this talk about the 900MHz noise. It's not too bad here. Moving forward, what are the new sources of 900MHz noise if my area is ok now? I hear a lot about pagers. Pagers!? What are those? LOL Are there new paging sites going online? I'm just looking for what will cause me trouble in the future. Brian Joe Laura wrote: Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean and you think it will stay that way then an omni would be fine. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
inline Mark Nash - Lists wrote: Man, it sounds like you need a business plan to get out of that town. Your network, I mean. You'll most likely need to either sell out, buy out the other WISP, or branch out either with your wireless network or establish a POP in another town. Do one of these things before you get burned out. I'm doing ok. :) I'm only 23 and pretty much a one man band. There are plenty of opportunities within driving distance, but I am waiting on me. I got started as a WISP 3 years ago and didn't even know how to put and end on cat5 cable. I know some of you guys were rf engineers or network guru's in past livessure would have been nice to have one side of the WISP gig mastered from the start. Anyway, I'm content with what I have. I'm growing at a pace I set. A pace that I control. It's too easy to get caught up in the get big...hook up everyone right now, right now. I bet my knowledge in this business doubles every couple months. Hopefully through the next year I will be at a point where I can start shooting out some backhauls to remote site where the people are waiting. But for now I'll sit on what I have. I could get branched way out right now, but the thought supporting it scares me. I'm sure I'll know the time to get big when it gets here. It will probably come shortly after the phone stops ringing my Internet is down. :) At that point I'll really have the confidence in what I know and be confident in what I have built. Brian 900MHz won't be like 2.4GHz. You won't have the distances which means more APs and backhauls and your CPE will be more expensive for those shorter hops as well. This I'm sure you've heard. Use the omnis for your area...seems appropriate. No geek war needed there. ;) Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Let me add a little about what I have to work with. There are 4036 people in the township which is my main coverage area (I fork out a little, but the number are inline with these). 2,288 have access to DSL and Cable. This leaves 1748 people to go after. How many of those want broadband? I just did a quick google and the only number I saw said 30% of rural Americans have broadband. So I'll go with that for my number of who wants it. 30% is about 500 people. I guess this means my township that is 36 square miles has almost 15 subscribers per square mile that are ripe for the picking. And then add the fact that there are 2 total WISPs in this area. Cut the subs in half. I have 7 subs per square mile to go hook up. Wait, it seems like 50% of my site surveys fail due to the darn trees, at least I can still get those 3.5 subs per square mile. :) Now that I have given a little more info, do you guys still recommend sectors? Brian Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Larry Yunker wrote: 900Mhz noise sources: 1) Paging Systems is is likely new sites are being deployed? 2) Other 900Mhz-based Broadband providers should be able to channel plan and work with them 3) Cordless Telephones shouldn't effect me THAT much 4) SCADA (utility monitoring and management systems) should be able to channel plan and work with them 5) Meter Readers shouldn't this only be in city limits? 6) Power or Pipeline Companies (often used for non-SCADA-based monitoring) don't know about this one 7) Other consumer devices (baby monitors, cordless headphones, cordless speakers) shouldn't effect me THAT much 8) licensed usage of segments of 902-928Mhz don't know what is in my area 9) Old cell towers? not here. We just got cell service. Too rural to have old technology anything - Larry To sum it up, so far I would draw the conclusion I'd be pretty safe with my caculated risk of going with an economical v-pol omni for 900MHz. Brian - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joe Laura [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain I hear this talk about the 900MHz noise. It's not too bad here. Moving forward, what are the new sources of 900MHz noise if my area is ok now? I hear a lot about pagers. Pagers!? What are those? LOL Are there new paging sites going online? I'm just looking for what will cause me trouble in the future. Brian Joe Laura wrote: Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean and you think it will stay that way then an omni would be fine. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Larry Yunker wrote: 900Mhz noise sources: 1) Paging Systems is is likely new sites are being deployed? It is likely that SOMEONE has already licensed the spectrum... If there is a market for pager services, they will eventually deploy. If there is no perceived market, they will likely sit on the license until forced to give it up. 2) Other 900Mhz-based Broadband providers should be able to channel plan and work with them You can work with them if: (1) they don't drop in a Canopy Cluster (2) they don't use an Alvarion or other FREQUENCY HOPPING type radio 3) Cordless Telephones shouldn't effect me THAT much Cordless Telephones are usually only a problem when houses are grouped close together. One of the biggest problems that I experienced with 900Mhz was when we would hook up a client INSIDE a neighborhood and later find out that his neighbor had a 900Mhz cordless phone. Every time that the neighbor would receive a call, my client would lose signal. AND for those lurking this particular link was a Waverider showing -70 RSSI with a -90+ noise floor. The damn cordless phone was the ONLY problem with the link. 4) SCADA (utility monitoring and management systems) should be able to channel plan and work with them Most SCADA systems are FREQUENCY HOPPING... you can't plan around those. 5) Meter Readers shouldn't this only be in city limits? I've only seen 900Mhz meter-readers within a city-limits. As long as you are broadcasting and receiving a few miles outside of the nearest city, you probably won't have issues. 6) Power or Pipeline Companies (often used for non-SCADA-based monitoring) don't know about this one Get a 900Mhz spectrum analyzer and drive your area or better yet connect it to an antenna up HIGH on the tower that you plan on using... see what kind of noise you see. 7) Other consumer devices (baby monitors, cordless headphones, cordless speakers) shouldn't effect me THAT much The only consumer device that ever knocked me out was the cordless phones... but I did have to tell a customer not to use his cordless headphones while on the internet... the 900mhz cordless headphones were causing packet-loss. 8) licensed usage of segments of 902-928Mhz don't know what is in my area Look it up on the FCC web site. 9) Old cell towers? not here. We just got cell service. Too rural to have old technology anything No OLD Analog cell service? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Hi, Buy a vertical omni and do a site survey. If everything looks clear, install it. Hook up customers. However, when/if the noise starts, be prepared to sectorize. :) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Let me add a little about what I have to work with. There are 4036 people in the township which is my main coverage area (I fork out a little, but the number are inline with these). 2,288 have access to DSL and Cable. This leaves 1748 people to go after. How many of those want broadband? I just did a quick google and the only number I saw said 30% of rural Americans have broadband. So I'll go with that for my number of who wants it. 30% is about 500 people. I guess this means my township that is 36 square miles has almost 15 subscribers per square mile that are ripe for the picking. And then add the fact that there are 2 total WISPs in this area. Cut the subs in half. I have 7 subs per square mile to go hook up. Wait, it seems like 50% of my site surveys fail due to the darn trees, at least I can still get those 3.5 subs per square mile. :) Now that I have given a little more info, do you guys still recommend sectors? Brian Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Brian, Your numbers are about what we face here. We live in a valley, so we have AP sites that are at least 1,000 feet above the valley floor and we can simply point each antenna up or down the valley and we get enough side lobe to cover the breadth of the valley A standard AP for us is 4 radios with 2 at 900 MHz and 2 at 2.4 GHz. We add another unit with 4 radios at 5 GHz and we have a repeater site that can really make connections and can hook people up. Total power draw is about about 0.7A from 24V or about 17W, which is critical since I use Solar Power at most of my sites. I run 2 POE cables up the tower from the batteries and use a small jumper to connect them. When I'm onsite I simply use one of the radios to connect in with. I find this the cheapest and simplest install since a switch is another failure point and requires more cabling. All towers are tied together with mesh routing and everything is purely routed. The 900 AP's use a PacWireless 9 dB yagi. With an 11 dB yagi at the customer I can get 4 miles from the side of the AP pointing direction, through a few trees on the customer site. From the front I get 25 miles with nearly clear LOS. We can have huge tree count at the 5 mile range but mostly we want a chainsaw beyond that. 900 can poke through trees but the reality is a better signal with better LOS. The 2.4 GHz AP's use a 16 dB sector. I'll add that we found out, the hard way, that we can hit them at 4 miles from behind with a 15 dB antenna at the customer. This requires perfect LOS. When we sorted out the mixed up AP antenna cables the customer signal went from -86 dB to -66 dB. Even at -86 dB they were very usable and able to attain 12 mbps under our throughput test. I'm not sure how you price your service but anybody that cannot get ADSL is really not able to apply ADSL pricing to services that can reach them. Why are you basing your price on the ADSL rate, rather than mixture of what it is costing and what it is worth. Don't gouge them, but simply point out that you do not have mega bucks and subsidies. Explain that if the customer was not more expensive to serve then ADSL would have already served them. Point out that ADSL strictly provides service to easy and cheap to service customers. You are left with the hard ones and that simply costs extra. Lonnie On 11/7/06, Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me add a little about what I have to work with. There are 4036 people in the township which is my main coverage area (I fork out a little, but the number are inline with these). 2,288 have access to DSL and Cable. This leaves 1748 people to go after. How many of those want broadband? I just did a quick google and the only number I saw said 30% of rural Americans have broadband. So I'll go with that for my number of who wants it. 30% is about 500 people. I guess this means my township that is 36 square miles has almost 15 subscribers per square mile that are ripe for the picking. And then add the fact that there are 2 total WISPs in this area. Cut the subs in half. I have 7 subs per square mile to go hook up. Wait, it seems like 50% of my site surveys fail due to the darn trees, at least I can still get those 3.5 subs per square mile. :) Now that I have given a little more info, do you guys still recommend sectors? Brian Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from
RE: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Brian, If you can do a spectrum scan with an Omni before you decide to deploy one it would be a good idea. You to make sure there is not so much noise that you won't get any advantage of the 900 Band because the noise floor is to high and has to be overcome by the CPE units. An Omni is going to pick up noise from all directions, if you were able to sectorize you may be able to lower the noise floor seen because you aren't looking in all directions. Omni sites make sense from a economic standpoint because you can serve in all directions but if it also creates problems due to noise you gain nothing. You can use a Canopy 900 radio for a spectrum scan. It's not a full blown spectrum analyzer but it will tell you if 900 MHz noise is going to be an issue. Even in rural areas lottery terminals, SCADA, cordless phones, baby monitors and paging transmitters all add to the mix. Horizontal polarization might help also. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:20 AM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Subject: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the opinions of the use of the 900 omni? http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Barry at Mutual Data wrote: Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. If only they gave away the Canopy APs. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Go H-Pol. Save yourself lots of grief later Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the opinions of the use of the 900 omni? http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml Brian -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean and you think it will stay that way then an omni would be fine. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Joe Laura wrote: Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean yes and you think it will stay that way Well I don't know but the pac omni is at a price where it would not be the end of the world if at some point in the future it was replaced with sectors. *Part No:* OD9-8 *Item Description:* 8dBi 900MHz Omnidirectional Antenna, N Female Connector *Price:* $110.95 then an omni would be fine. Should be fine until I have the subscribers at the pop to justify something better. I'm only trying to get my foot in the door. I don't think it's possible to do the absolute best right from day one. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
The Pacific Wireless horizontal omni is a good choice however, they are about $900 each. We start our small sites with omni's and then sectorize them with two 180 degree horizontal sectors as the subs increase. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Performance wise, the best omnis we've found on the market are the BIG H-Pol Omnis from MTI Wireless Edge 11 dBi -- but at 10'+ tall and 2.5' wide @ $1k+, they can be a tough pill to swallow -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean and you think it will stay that way then an omni would be fine. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have BR heard statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over BR such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are BR the opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
The Pacific Wireless horizontal omni is a good choice however, they are about $900 each. Yes and no MTI Omnis don't cost that much more and have 2 extra dB of gain -- and remember, in 900 MHz, each extra dB of gain equates to approximately 1' worth of additional antenna at the subscriber =) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have BR heard statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over BR such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are BR the opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
I hear this talk about the 900MHz noise. It's not too bad here. Moving forward, what are the new sources of 900MHz noise if my area is ok now? I hear a lot about pagers. Pagers!? What are those? LOL Are there new paging sites going online? I'm just looking for what will cause me trouble in the future. Brian Joe Laura wrote: Sectors are also great for helping with interference. I guess if your spectrum is clean and you think it will stay that way then an omni would be fine. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain
Let me add a little about what I have to work with. There are 4036 people in the township which is my main coverage area (I fork out a little, but the number are inline with these). 2,288 have access to DSL and Cable. This leaves 1748 people to go after. How many of those want broadband? I just did a quick google and the only number I saw said 30% of rural Americans have broadband. So I'll go with that for my number of who wants it. 30% is about 500 people. I guess this means my township that is 36 square miles has almost 15 subscribers per square mile that are ripe for the picking. And then add the fact that there are 2 total WISPs in this area. Cut the subs in half. I have 7 subs per square mile to go hook up. Wait, it seems like 50% of my site surveys fail due to the darn trees, at least I can still get those 3.5 subs per square mile. :) Now that I have given a little more info, do you guys still recommend sectors? Brian Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Problem is I might only get 10-15 subs at these sites in the next year. Lets say I can buy 10 APs. I'd rather have 10 sites with omni's than 5 sites with 180* sectors. At 15 subs a site I'd have 150 subs on 10 omni's at $35 a month. That is $5250 a month. If I sectorize 5 sites with 15 subs that is 75 subs and only $2625 added to the monthly income. Back to reality. I can't afford 10 APs.but still, I don't see sectors as being such a great thing. What is the point of doubling the cost of a pop for no gain of subscribers? Back to my question. If a guy wanted to use omni's for 900. What is a good choice? Brian Chris Cooper wrote: We have a legacy 900 omni at 750' AGL. It really reaches out and touches remote customers, but it is visible to every other cell in the region and affects channel planning. Stick to sectors, they might be more expensive up front but long term you will have more options. c -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:40 PM To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Due to the eirp limits at 900 (36dB total) your antenna choice really should take into account the radio gain first. Having said that, a lot of people put in the high gain 900 omni antennas and don't seem to have much trouble with them. I agree with the sector idea though. The 900 that I'm using now is trango. They have almost got the full eirp built right in to the radio/antenna system as it comes from the factory. The down side is that it takes 6 ap's to cover 360*. That can get spendy. Especially if you pay rent per antenna. As a rule, we are sectorizing more and more sites these days. Even the ones out in the sticks. There are too many other users out there showing up all of the time. latetrs, marlon - Original Message - From: Barry at Mutual Data [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Omni and gain Hello Brian, No more then 8db in my playbook anymore. And horz. if at all possible. Sectors on 900 is the best way to go too. I got an Antel 11db with downtilt that I would sell if you really want a vertical omni. Heavy duty antenna. Barry Tuesday, November 7, 2006, 8:20:28 AM, you wrote: BR I looking for input on what vertical 900 omni to use. I have heard BR statements from Marlon like I'd never use a 2.4 omni over such and such BR gain., because of the beamwidth and such. Anyway what are the BR opinions of the use of the 900 omni? BR http://www.pacwireless.com/products/omni_900mhz.shtml BR Brian -- Best regards, Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
