Re: [WSG] form input

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Boyle
> label.submitbuttons input ... > wonder if just > .submitbuttons input > would work? Yep. This allows the "submitbuttons" class to be specified on any parent element, not just a . On some pages you could use , on others you could use , or you could use , etc. These kind of "open" selectors can

[WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Boyle
Why doesn't anyone push the barrow saying "Font sizes should be LARGE by default, and designers should MAKE THE FONT SMALLER if/when they don't like it." Why do we aim to please designers and expect users to make the adjustments? I don't get it. But then, I skipped all the subjects on typography a

[WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Boyle
I wouldn't classify this as off topic, it's all part of the web environment and standards (or lack thereof) of real practical cases are all part of the discussion! imho. I have heard it is possible to configure a webserver in a way that when someone accesses a PDF/DOC (whatever file types have b

Re: [WSG] form input

2003-12-11 Thread James Ellis
I've had some issues with validating XHTML with divs in a form. The "not allowed here" message. Anyone else get that? Cheers Jame Ben Boyle wrote: label.submitbuttons input ... wonder if just .submitbuttons input would work? Yep. This allows the "submitbuttons" class to be specifie

Re: [WSG] PHP Question...

2003-12-11 Thread Bradley Wright
I'm probably a little late on the ball with this one, but couldn't you escape the ? characters? Like so: print "<\?xml version=\"1.0\" encoding=\"iso-8859-1\"\?>\n"; Don't see why that wouldn't work. Of course it's almost the same thing... never mind. :) Beau Lebens wrote: that's

Re: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Bradley Wright
Miles, Generally when serving PDF type document at my place of work, we serve them using a custom HTTP header: header( "content-disposition: inline" ); (that's the PHP way to do it). This works for us because we serve most of our documents as BLOBs from the database. If you're not doing that,

Re: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-11 Thread Bradley Wright
While we're on the topic of text sizes, what does everyone here think of DOM driven style-switchers? (ala http://www.mezzoblue.com/ and http://www.zeldman.com/)? I'm thinking that it's possible people will miss these resizing buttons. What's the general opinion on these? Good idea? Maybe tryin

[WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
I just visited the web site of Gramophone magazine, looking for a CD review. I'm using Safari - the buttons on the site don't work, they're all just # links. I've looked in the source code and am wondering why they don't work before I email them and let them know. Any guesses it might be a case

Re: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
I've used something similar on two sites under development (http://www.sarahboak.co.uk and http://homepage.mac.com/artistry/adc) but have gone for the text-based link approach. I'd like to use graphics but find that nothing really sums up the concept better than saying "make text bigger". On 1

RE: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site

2003-12-11 Thread Peter Firminger
Hi Jonathon, It has dynamic menus that you're not getting in Safari. A good illustration of not testing (or caring about) cross platform compatibility. This is also a good time to point out that if you use these types of dynamic menus, you must point the initial link to a meaningful address (a p

Re: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site

2003-12-11 Thread James Ellis
Looks like they are using Javascript to launch links. Doesn't work in Firebird. Venkman gives it a big thumbs down. "Error: document.newsnav has no properties Source File: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/inc/navnn.js.asp Line: 68" The JS file has an ASP extension. Gotta love those spacer gifs. Chee

Re: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Bishop
It's broken. The menu uses Javascript to dynamically create fly-out menus. It doesn't work in my Mac/Safari 1.1 nor Win/Firebird 0.7. It does work in Win/IE 6 Without delving, I would hazard a guess that IE specific JS statements are disabling the menu. Cheers, Ben Jonathan Baldwin wrote: I j

Re: [WSG] [OT everso slightly] Gramophone web site

2003-12-11 Thread David McDonald
On the topic of drop down menus, i've found Ben Boyle's menus to be extremely useful: http://inspire.server101.com/js/mb/mb.html I think Ben's a member of this list, too. The menus are built with plaint text, list items, CSS and a little javascript and seem to work very well cross browser, in

[WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Glenn Slaven
Interesting article on using fixed width design for sites: http://www.notestips.com/80256B3A007F2692/1/TAIO-5TT34F He makes a good point: "Limiting the page width is about maximising readability. The more words there are on a line, the further the eye has to travel back to the beginning, and

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread russ weakley
It is a debate raging around the web at present. There are other options that solve this problem: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/em/ Russ > > Interesting article on using fixed width design for sites: > http://www.notestips.com/80256B3A007F2692/1/TAIO-5TT34F > > He makes a good point

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
Can I just say something??? yes. It has nothing to do with the article itself. I really can't stand urls like http://www.notestips.com/80256B3A007F2692/1/TAIO-5TT34F The only way you can access them are via a search engine or book mark, no one will actually remember a url like this, it is not a

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Glenn Slaven
Taco Fleur wrote: Can I just say something??? yes. It has nothing to do with the article itself. I really can't stand urls like http://www.notestips.com/80256B3A007F2692/1/TAIO-5TT34F The only way you can access them are via a search engine or book mark, no one will actually remember a url like

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Tonico Strasser
russ weakley wrote: It is a debate raging around the web at present. There are other options that solve this problem: FWIW, a few weeks ago I created a layout with EMs as base unit. I've set min- and max-widths for better readability. http://www.webproducer.at/flexible-layout Tonico -- Tonico

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Gary Menzel
> The only way you can access them are via a search engine or book mark, no one will actually remember a url like this, it is not > accessibile! "accessible" means that the content can be navigated, read and understood by the largest number of users. For me personally, a URL can be as cryptic as

RE: [WSG] The 5th pillar - was Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Stanton
Hey Taco >Is this something for "Standards" or out of scope? Russ has this idea that there are 4 pillars of web standards: - validity - semantics - separation of presentation & content - accessibility To my mind that last one generally refers to people with disabilities & people using dodgy har

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread James Gollan
I think that even if the page name is cryptic that the directory structure should be built on logic - often you can guess one or two levels of the directory structure and really focus in on your area of interest. Surely this improves ease of navigation and therefore accessibility? As for the book

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
Now for the classic: What if you're in a internet cafe and you don't remember the url? Personally I *try* and keep the url clean and easy to remember [domain] / [object/function] / [key/id] -Original Message- From: Gary Menzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 12 December 2003 10:

RE: [WSG] The 5th pillar - was Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
Hey Mark, I'm glad to see you could put to words what I could not. I totally agree with you, I like how you brought the status codes in the picture, it has been something I started working on at some stage, but like most personal projects I'd let it get dusty. --- Yes! I really think

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
I agree. I've long advocated easy to remember URLs because, although most of "us" do as Gary says and get URLs directly from email, I've observed that a *lot* of users don't know that they can copy URLs from the browser so type them out when passing them on, or do it verbally, so it is importan

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Miles Tillinger
I don't suppose we're actually 'serving' the PDF or DOC as such, in that we only link to the file. As we have no control over the header of the file, the user's OS will handle it however it is configured to. Herein lies the problem... -Original Message- From: Bradley Wright [mailto:[E

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
That's fine for power users, but 99% of users can't navigate up and down directories, I would guess. As an experiment, imagine a site with no navigation, but all pages were accessible by typing in the url of, at least, the enclosing directory. How many people would be able to do it - even havin

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Gary Menzel
> Now for the classic: What if you're in a internet cafe and you don't remember the url? My response to that is that the Internet does not support "portability" of your personal configuration information properly. This is what I think needs to be addressed - not what a URL actually is or isn't.

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Miles Tillinger
If I had a dollar for everytime that I had given some a www-less URL verbally and they've just entered www. blah out of habit, I'd be a millionaire! Ubergeek: "Ok, enter the URL 'news.google.com'" N00b: [enters www.news.google.com] Ubergeek: "No, no no, no WWW!" N00b: "news.google.com, withou

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
I hope it's not stupid, but how about the ol' "Right-click" and "Save as"? I haven't followed this whole post, but I know it annoys the hell out of me when I click a link and it opens up a new window and starts adobe acrobat (in the browser), starts loading the file, and consumes all my system

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Stanton
Just some examples: 2 I actually type in from memory pretty often: http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/ http://www.macromedia.com/coldfusion/ (which actually redirects to /software/coldfusion/ - very nice) and an interesting concept - each item/object has a unique keyword - tack .html on the end and its

Re: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread James Ellis
If you are using Apache you could force a download for these file types instead of opening the file. When the user clicks on the link the download box will pop up. This'd be my preference... Cheers James Miles Tillinger wrote: I don't suppose we're actually 'serving' the PDF or DOC as su

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
Hi Gary, you always have wise words, so I'd like to know what it is and why you are expecting? -- Over time, I am expecting we will find that the URL itself doesn't matter as much as it is made to at the moment. * The discussion li

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
Any more info on this? Doesn't it work the same as sending proper headers? -Original Message-From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, 12 December 2003 11:04 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank windowIf you are using A

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Stanton
"If you are using Apache you could force a download for these file types instead of opening the file. When the user clicks on the link the download box will pop up." Same thing can be done with CF & / Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 638

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Peter Firminger
If you force a user to save the file locally instead of opening it in the manner in which their browser is set up to handle it you're taking away their control of default behaviours. I really recommend against this. Let the browser handle it. If they have only the Acrobat Reader, a PDF will 

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread James Ellis
You could always tell them to enter http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] In Internet Explorer, that'd really freak them out. http://www.secunia.com/internet_explorer_address_bar_spoofing_test/ Now tell me that IE is a secure browser... CHeers James Miles Tillinger wrote: If I had a dollar for everytime tha

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Gary Menzel
> Over time, I am expecting we will find that the URL itself doesn't matter as much as it is made to at the moment. I was trying to say that URL's/URI's are not really for humans. The URN (Uniform Resrouce Name) is what we are actually talking about. This is a specific form of a URI that is pers

RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Taco Fleur
If you force a user to save the file locally instead of opening it in the manner in which their browser is set up to handle it you're taking away their control of default behaviours. I really recommend against this. Let the browser handle it. If they have only the Acrobat Reader, a PDF will 

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
You and me both. My .mac homepage address has no www - but people automatically ask if I've missed it off when I tell them it. I suppose if the web were more forgiving then it wouldn't matter if you typed www or not. Like getting the post code wrong or missing it off - takes a little longer to g

Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Jonathan Baldwin
Of course, if you're on a Mac and use iSync, then your URLs move from computer to computer when you log in and, if you have to use a PC, they're stored on a web page for you, updated each time you synchronise. A simple thing, but truly marvellous, and built in to the OS. Most URLs are autofill

RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Peter Firminger
We must remember the origin of the "Home Page". This was the page that your old Unix shell account browser saved their bookmarks to (the two I used to use were "lynx" and I believe the other was simply "www"). This page was (by default) the index document in your account directory (whatever.com/use

RE: [WSG] The 5th pillar - was Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Boyle
>> Anyway what I am talking about includes all the little things that give a site real "polish", things like: - guessable/memorable URLs, - site structure (logical connection of content), - use of hyperlinks in the text, - googlability or search engine friendliness - tabbing between elements - f

[WSG] do people still use bookmarks?

2003-12-11 Thread Ben Boyle
do people still use bookmarks? For myself, only rarely. I recently read a post on a search engine list (I-Search, very good if you're looking for something on the topic) where it was suggested that people do not bookmark/remember URLs as often these days because it's so straightforward to just go

RE: [WSG] do people still use bookmarks?

2003-12-11 Thread Mark Stanton
Yes my firebird links toolbar looks like: - AClientName - a few links to tools relating to a client's stuff - Surf - links to various surf & weather reports - Boards - various discussion boards - To Read