RE: [WSG] standards, semantics and strict/valid Script Sources
Hi Jay, I would recommend http://onlinetools.org. Clean unobtrusive scripts, very nice. Though it obviously depends on what you are looking for. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://webSemantics.co.uk rest: http://2kool2.com play: http://bangersandmashed.com /marquee/blink From: Jay Gilmore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 December 2005 03:31 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] standards, semantics and strict/valid Script Sources I am honestly looking for resources. Any help in this would be great. Jay Jay Gilmore wrote: I wanted to know if there are resources like HotScripts etc. that provide code that is standards oriented, semantic and use valid and/or strict doctypes? I hate always having to hack the hell out of scripts etc to remove tables and replace semantics etc. Jay -- Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing http://www.smashingred.com P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
the basics of Firefox (was RE: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser)
Welcome to the Firefox support list...aeh... Anyway, the installation block has been in Firefox for ages (at least since 0.9, I think). Did you then actually click the "Edit Options" button, like it says right there? Can't be more explicit than that... Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al KendallSent: 01 December 2005 11:18To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser I've used Firefox as my defualt browers for some time now and wouldn't go back. Recently I changed to Thunderbird for my e-mails. But having just downloaded the latest versions i'm getting frustrated with Firefox and trying to install a new theme. If i click on install I get an error bar pop up saying that Software Installation is disabled (see attached img). I've changed all the settings I can find without sucess. Then I tried right click on the install link, downloaded it and then slected tools/menu themes but not luck there. Not recongnised. Thunderbird works fine that way. CheersAl
[WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Hi Guys, I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMS being used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It does not even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text to some images! Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
I gave up trying to do anything with Mambo. Expression Engine, Movable Type, and Wordpress are Standards based and simple and easy to configure, All three validate out of the box and don't require a two year course and beating your head on the desk to reconfigureafter several years of trying to use other systems I gave Mambo and all nuke related up as a lost cause. Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility Hi Guys, I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMS being used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It does not even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text to some images! Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Woops, missed this: If Mambo can be configured easy, as some claim, why has there not been a ton of templates available long ago??? On different CMS type forums I see problems mambo related all the time... Nuff said ;-) Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility Hi Guys, I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMS being used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It does not even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text to some images! Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
I used mambo to do this... www.jabary.com Carlos Revillo Tanta Tecnología y Comunicación Grupo Onetec c/ Julián Camarillo 26 1º Of. 2 28037 Madrid Tel.: 91.440.10.40 Fax: 91.304.91.24 www.tantacom.com www.grupoonetec.com -Mensaje original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de Bruce Enviado el: jueves, 01 de diciembre de 2005 13:26 Para: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Asunto: Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility Woops, missed this: If Mambo can be configured easy, as some claim, why has there not been a ton of templates available long ago??? On different CMS type forums I see problems mambo related all the time... Nuff said ;-) Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions - Original Message - From: Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility Hi Guys, I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMS being used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It does not even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text to some images! Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
I am a big fan of Wordpress [1]. I personally use it, as well as use it on a lot of projects for clients. I have found it very easy to configure. If you know a HTML and a little PHP, it is very versatile.For one project, I was tasked with taking a look at the accessibility of Mambo and the feasibility of making it accessible. After going over the documentation, it just felt very daunting.You may want to check out the W3C's Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) [2]. It is a good measuring stick for quality in a CMS (or any authoring tool) as far as it's ability to be accessible. You can ask the CMS vendors how they measure up to ATAG.Sincerely,Justin Thorp[1] http://www.wordpress.org[2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.phpOn Dec 1, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Bruce wrote:I gave up trying to do anything with Mambo._expression_ Engine, Movable Type, and Wordpress are Standards based andsimple and easy to configure, All three validate out of the box and don'trequire a two year course and beating your head on the desk toreconfigureafter several years of trying to use other systems I gaveMambo and all nuke related up as a lost cause.Bruce ProchnauBKDesign Solutions- Original Message - From: "Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:15 AMSubject: [WSG] Mambo AccessibilityHi Guys,I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMSbeing used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS butupon inspecting it I am surrounded by tables and poor markup. It doesnot even seem possible (Without hacking the source) to add ALT text tosome images!Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the workis to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblilyand hopefully web standards?Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs?Regards,Lloyd *** Justin Thorp Technical Assistant Michigan State University Academic Computing Network Services - Applications Programming http://approg.msu.edu/ Principal; Web Developer Accessibility Specialist MyCapitalWeb.com LLC 3016 S. Deerfield Lansing, MI 48911 [EMAIL PROTECTED] my NEW personal blog - http://www.justinthorp.com my web development blog - http://thinkthentype.blogspot.com
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
Zulema wrote: I've upgraded my Firefox[1] to the new 1.5 version and it seems to me that some website's font sizes have become a lot smaller. Knowing your operating system and a longer list of URLs exhibiting this behavior would help. There were bugs fixed in 1.5 that affect pages sizing text in units that are affected by DPI (mostly pt). For example many of the Google sites[2] have smaller font sizes; I can hardly tell which of my Gmail emails are new because the font size is so small the bolding is nonexistant! A List Apart[3] is teeny tiny. Even my blog has fallen victim. :( [2] http://www.google.com/ http://maps.google.com/http://www.gmail.com/ [3] http://www.alistapart.com/ blog: http://blog.zoblue.com/ I've seen no change in Google home or maps, don't use gmail, and don't use ALA without author styles disabled due to its insistence on mousetype by default. I don't know what your blog looked like before, but it certainly isn't designed to embrace zoom gracefully. It is really unusual to hear a web designer complain of too small fonts. :-O -- Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.Psalm 33:12 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
I am having the same problem with GMAIL. Using ctrl-+ gives me a too large font and no reflow at the 3rd expansion and a too small font at lower expansions. Regards, Steven C. Perkins At 10:41 AM 12/1/2005, you wrote: I'm unable to duplicate this. I would try resetting your text size to normal, or createing a new profile and see if it occurs under that profile also. As for greasemonkey, they relased 0.6.4 yesterday for Firefox 1.5 only. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zulema Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:18 AM To: WSG List Subject: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes I've upgraded my Firefox[1] to the new 1.5 version and it seems to me that some website's font sizes have become a lot smaller. For example many of the Google sites[2] have smaller font sizes; I can hardly tell which of my Gmail emails are new because the font size is so small the bolding is nonexistant! A List Apart[3] is teeny tiny. Even my blog has fallen victim. :( Is it the doctype? Is it the html xmlns namespace attribute? Is it something else? Just curious to know if I'm just crazy or if anyone else sees this. btw: I'm so bummed that greasemonkey doesn't work in FF1.5 :'( thanks! Zulema [1] http://getfirefox.com/ [2] http://www.google.com/ http://maps.google.com/ http://www.gmail.com/ [3] http://www.alistapart.com/ --- Zulema Ortiz folio: http://zoblue.com/ blog: http://blog.zoblue.com/ browser: http://getfirefox.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** NOTICE: The information contained in this message is intended for the addressess(s) only and may be confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems with the transmission, please immediately notify us by return e-mail. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying, or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. The sender will not be liable for any damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third-party or as a result of any virus being transmitted. This notice is automatically appended to each e-mail message transmitted from the sender's e-mail domain. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
Peter Leing wrote: I'm unable to duplicate this. Me either. Google's fonts haven't changed for me, nor alistapart. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
What about www.textpattern.com has anyone tried this? ~n uoting Steve Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Neal Watkins www.constructweb.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
www.GAWDS.org (Guild of Accessible Web Developers) has a fully accessible CMS platform. I would recommend moving away from Mambo if you are interested in standards. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Ferguson Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Help FF v1.5 and Flash on a Mac
I need some help urgently. Just downloaded the latest release v1.5 and Flash Player v8. Now my Flash audio stream buttons no longer display, just macromedia's f. What's happened? It appears perfectly on my PC version. http://bangersandmashed.com The Macromedia site reports The Flash Player as installed and then plays a movie. It all worked fine in v1.07. It still works in Safari and IE too, so I don't think it's the Flash install. This is affecting both my Macs Is this a FF bug? Or possibly an unsupported Flash programming method? Any help greatly appreciated. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://webSemantics.co.uk rest: http://2kool2.com play: http://bangersandmashed.com /marquee/blink ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Hello from Perú
Hello, My name is José Kusunoki im 23 and i work in a newspaper in the Multimedia Infographics area, im interested in standards and Mambo, how do you resolve theImage Galleryproblem and the image management problem?, i've heard that its too difficult to find an image gallery module and that its very difficult to manage images (upload, organize, etc) im talking about this because im thinking as a user that doesnt know anything about ftp, and web administration (cpanel, databases, etc) --José Kusunoki G.Diseñador[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.constantconcept.com(511) 97004563
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
TextPattern works well, particularly now that they've released a final version. I used WordPress up until v.1.5 due to TXP being in beta and RC versions, but have since slowly switched to TXP for all my sites. The only site I can think of at the moment that is running TXP (and doing a good job of it) is Hicks Design (http:// www.hicksdesign.co.uk/). I'm sure there's more out there, just can't think of them right now. On Dec 1, 2005, at 11:00 AM, Neal Watkins wrote: What about www.textpattern.com has anyone tried this? ~n uoting Steve Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http:// www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Neal Watkins www.constructweb.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help FF v1.5 and Flash on a Mac
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:31:27 -0500, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now my Flash audio stream buttons no longer display Confirmed -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: UK Government Web Accessibility
Hi WSG, Ive just been informed of a BBC article referencing the UK Government and accessibility. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4478702.stm The stats claimed are actually a lot sharper than I'd imagine but I can see why this is the case. My current contract means I provide ecommerce advice to local businesses as well as support and project manage our organisations internet infrastructure, which is an EU and Government funded org. From the business angle, I am promoting web standards from a commercially beneficial point of view as it's the language they want to hear. This works very well as it means I have sent out about 400 local businesses to local internet service providers and they are all demanding a site with a strong specification in terms of accessibility and usability. From the project management angle, I am responsible for delivering a handful of sites that offer event booking, content management, customer relationship management and news delivery system. I sell a specification to the board, the accountants reluctantly agree and it goes to tender. Again, this is great. We have a Government agency with a dedicated budget and a mighty online application they wish to deliver. Here lies the problem, the web design agencies. When either communicating with the board or following up with the businesses, when I take a look at the quotes agencies have provided them with, accessibility is an optional extra or it's the usual yeah, everything we do is accessible. You know it isn't. I also recently had a chat with a local University lecturer about how to address this. Governments are getting websites they are genuinely informed is up to scratch. They are paying for expert advice and being misinformed so who's fault is this? Is an accountant meant to know about W3C validation? I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to do something about it in my home town. The team and I pulled together a web accessibility event which showed practical use of the web with assistive technology. We called on AbilityNet (http://www.abilitynet.org.uk/), East Sussex Disability Association (http://www.esda.org.uk/) and a usability/accessibility consultant Nikki Rae (http://www.webaccessforeveryone.co.uk/) to deliver information to web designers in the town. There was even a query about it in the accessify forum (http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=26737) and to answer that, it was because it was subsidised for local businesses and was only funded for Hastings and the Rother District (sorry guys). This has had a massive impact on the town and we (Hastings) are a force in terms of the delivery of web services. I know this is a long winded mail but it's flagging a solution to the problem on a small scale. Create business demand and awareness and then pull the web design industry in for a slap. How do we address the bigger picture though? Micro-perfection of HTML tags and solid CSS design across even the most stubborn of browsers is not financially viable for the majority of the website market. All comments, suggestions or recommendations welcome. I am also about to sign up for another 2 1/2 years as a consultant for this EU organisation and am looking at more ways to reinforce web standards to the wider region (Sussex, UK). I know a few regional list members are around but a heads up would be good. Offline mails welcome to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://www.tn38.net http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] XSL and CDATA
Hi Everyone I just posted something about XSL and CDATA. I'm not announcing it as if I'm standing on the mountain preaching to the masses. I'm hoping that if I'm wrong in my logic, someone could clear it up in the comments. http://www.tdrake.net/xsl-cdata-and-me/ I guess I could have just posted it to this list as a question, but felt like updating my blog. I hope it helps. I'm still trying to wrap my head around XSL stuff. p.s. I have a wordpress plugin that adds the abbr tags to the page. I can't imagine how much time that saved in this post alone. Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
-Original Message- I've upgraded my Firefox[1] to the new 1.5 version and it seems to me that some website's font sizes have become a lot smaller. Quoting Peter Leing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm unable to duplicate this. I would try resetting your text size to normal, or createing a new profile and see if it occurs under that profile also. As for greasemonkey, they relased 0.6.4 yesterday for Firefox 1.5 only. Ok, I'm officially crazy. In a new profile, all the font sizes are fine, it must be my own personal profile. I must investigate under the hood of my profile (like I would know what to look for). :-S Glad to hear greasemonkey is ok, it did auto-update today 1/2 hour after I sent the email out. Also glad to hear small font size issue happened to someone else besides me. If I find out how to fix it I will email it out, small font sizes just bother the heck outta me--esp. when my monthly contacts are due to be switched out. ;) ciao, Zulema ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Lloyd said: Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Are you refering to the the CMS interface itself (i.e. the admin bits) or to the public facing output? Most CMS's should be able to handle producing accessible public facing pages. If you are looking for an accessible backend, I'm sorry but you won't find one out of the box. Your best solution is to look to a CMS that has good sepeartion of code and UI - preferably where the admin pages are themeable - and build your own backend, or work with an OS project that has accessiblity as a goal for the backend. One of the blogging platforms (WordPress, MovableType, TextPattern) might suffice depending on how much 'managing' and how scalable your CMS needs to be, however, last I looked none of these are particularly accessible out of the box either, and all suffered to some degree of poor seperation of code + ui (disclaimer: it's been a very long time since I looked at TP, or MT). kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
I created this problem for myself by altering the default font preferences under Tools Options Content. If you also changed these settings, this might be the cause. Returning in to Times New Roman, 16 fixed it for me. Regards, Stuart ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Konquerer becomes the 2nd browser to pass Acid2
While I share you feellings, I also understand why Acid2 wasn't high on the list of the Mozilla folks. The test itself isn't the be all and end all of stadards. I personally think that building SVG support into firefox was a much more important goal and I can't wait till Konqi and Safari support it as well. Alan Trick On Thu, 2005-12-01 at 12:45 +1000, Jason Foss wrote: Safari was the first wasn't it? Hope a Windows browser manages that soon... :( On 30/11/05, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all Just read this via KDE dot news (http://dot.kde.org/1133270759/) Konqueror is the second major web browser to pass the Acid2 CSS test, ahead of Firefox and Internet Explorer http://www.kde.org/announcements/visualguide-3.5.php This was done in June 2005 but was only ported to a stable branch released today. Bravo Konqi and a good day for better standards support. Both Konq and Safari share a similar codebase (KHTML : http://khtml.info ). Cheers James __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: the basics of Firefox (was RE: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser)
I'm having the same trouble and, yes, I've clicked the bloody Edit Options button but bog all happens!! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Except that they still insist on membership before you can view such pages. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 4:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility www.GAWDS.org (Guild of Accessible Web Developers) has a fully accessible CMS platform. I would recommend moving away from Mambo if you are interested in standards. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Ferguson Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
If you want to find out which CMS is good for your needs, you might want to check out: http://www.opensourcecms.com/ They have live installs of maybe hundreds of CMS, all rated, user comments, organized in categories. The installs are wiped every 2 hours, so you can go in with the demo password and do whatever you want, try different features, see the output, etc. You might find a CMS no one would think of suggesting that might actually be perfect for you, and you don't have to worry about installing something on your own server and having to uninstall it later. To save you some time, most comments about Mambo on the site go along the lines of Mambo was good for a while, but there are better solutions now that will save you lots of time. It might be faster to take the Mambo database and port it into another CMS than try to make all the Mambo markup standards-compliant. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
You can also directly compare hundreds of CMSs and choose them based on selection criteria from this helpful site: http://cmsmatrix.org However, if you're after a simplt, straight-forward no-nonsense, accessible and XHTML compliant CMS I'm going to recommend CMS Made Simple again. It's in it's infancy but it's got the most active developer community I've ever seend and it's growing out of site(sic). And, no, I have no affiliations beyond those of an emotive nature. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 8:47 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility If you want to find out which CMS is good for your needs, you might want to check out: http://www.opensourcecms.com/ They have live installs of maybe hundreds of CMS, all rated, user comments, organized in categories. The installs are wiped every 2 hours, so you can go in with the demo password and do whatever you want, try different features, see the output, etc. You might find a CMS no one would think of suggesting that might actually be perfect for you, and you don't have to worry about installing something on your own server and having to uninstall it later. To save you some time, most comments about Mambo on the site go along the lines of Mambo was good for a while, but there are better solutions now that will save you lots of time. It might be faster to take the Mambo database and port it into another CMS than try to make all the Mambo markup standards-compliant. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
On 12/1/05, Zulema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- I've upgraded my Firefox[1] to the new 1.5 version and it seems to me that some website's font sizes have become a lot smaller. Quoting Peter Leing [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm unable to duplicate this. I would try resetting your text size to normal, or createing a new profile and see if it occurs under that profile also. As for greasemonkey, they relased 0.6.4 yesterday for Firefox 1.5 only. Ok, I'm officially crazy. In a new profile, all the font sizes are fine, it must be my own personal profile. I must investigate under the hood of my profile (like I would know what to look for). :-S Right. Some of you were asking about Gmail, well I have FF 1.5 and Gmail and I never noticed a difference. I never change my default setting or profile or anything so that must be where your problem lies. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics
On 12/1/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, is the technology dictating the look, or are all these things just accidents of history because some major relaunch like the stopdesign/AdaptivePath redesign of Blogger looked that way? I think what you are talking about are fads. Since so many CSS and standards based galleries have sprung up, it seems like every cool new detail spreads fast and ends up emulated and used by lots of designers on standards based sites. The place for that kind of discussion is: http://fadtastic.aspiramedia.com/ ... which covers these design trends pretty well. Sure, some of them have become more popular because CSS made them possible to implement easily, but the abundance of these details are fadtastic. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Actually you can find it, if you take the time to look. Here's the link for non-members (sourced from their Membership Benefits page). http://www.qnecms.co.uk/ On Dec 1, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Paul Noone wrote: Except that they still insist on membership before you can view such pages. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 4:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility www.GAWDS.org (Guild of Accessible Web Developers) has a fully accessible CMS platform. I would recommend moving away from Mambo if you are interested in standards. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Ferguson Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 20:15:13 +0800 Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, ... Is there a way to make Mambo compatible (A large reason for the work is to allow blind users to get value from the site) with accessiblily and hopefully web standards? Is there another CMS that you would mention which may suit my needs? I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Regards, Lloyd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Areas that Joomla is dealing with: 1) Frontend and backend accessibility considerations 2) Well formed, semantic code. Minimal cruft. 3) Appropriate use of markup 4) Design standards (e.g. looking at W3C Core Styles, what classes we really need, correct use of classes) I say this as part of the Usability and Accessibility Group within Joomla. Whilst I'm not the actual core dev team, I have been helping out with ideas and code architecture. Joomla is going in the right direction. It's just not there yet..;) Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media http:///www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics
Hi John Sites look similar because the early standards-based web developers were so influential. CSS-based design is different beast than table hacking and people feel more comfortable riffing off a successful site than learning a new technique with a design out of their head. As standards-based design matures, you will see new varieties that table hacking never dreamed of. Personally, I'm hoping to have some time to begin exploring CSS3 layouts much more. IE7 isn't that far off in the future and we can begin using more sophisticated behaviors now with Safari, Opera, and Firefox. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:55 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics Not a question so much as a discussion topic -- is there a particular look to standards websites? Is there an aesthetic developing from the technologies we use? Many standards websites have subtle gradients in backgrounds -- is this because designers are confident in using PNG files which do gradients better for smaller file sizes? Standards websites tend to use rounded corners -- is that because of moz-border-radius? And of course we see fewer designs these days which are just Photoshop files locked into a complex table -- designs with DIVs are more likely to have breathing space than try to be pixel-perfect. So, is the technology dictating the look, or are all these things just accidents of history because some major relaunch like the stopdesign/AdaptivePath redesign of Blogger looked that way? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] XSL and CDATA
Ted Drake wrote: I just posted something about XSL and CDATA. I'm not announcing it as if I'm standing on the mountain preaching to the masses. I'm hoping that if I'm wrong in my logic, someone could clear it up in the comments. http://www.tdrake.net/xsl-cdata-and-me/ I guess I could have just posted it to this list as a question, but felt like updating my blog. I hope it helps. I'm still trying to wrap my head around XSL stuff. So by unprocessed HTML tags, i.e. links and br tags you mean that there's potentially non-XML, and you're wondering how to handle that in XSLT? If so... Well -- as you've found -- once in XSL you can only deal with non-XML as a black box. You can't get into that lump of code and query nodes, only as a string, so you're limited to basic string manipulation like search/replace and such. So it works but it's not a good idea. The solution is to either add the HTML after XSL processing, or -- better yet -- convert the HTML into XHTML (typically by using HTMLTidy, or - if you've got well-formed HTML - careful use of regular expressions, although you _really_ need to trust the source). Now that it's in XHTML there's no problem striping tags and applying all the syntax rules you apply elsewhere. Trying to push non-XML through XSLT 1.0 is not a good idea. XSLT 2.0 improves string manipulation quite a bit but, even so, it pales in comparison to typical programming langauges. The HTML probably isn't far away from valid XML anyway, so I'd tidy it up and send it through like that. Things I wish I knew when I started learning XSLT five years ago, - XML Pipelines help you separate out your processes like functions do in other languages, so don't cram everything in one XSLT file. - Because XSLT is XML, some people generate XSLT from XSLT. These people are badasses. - Use xsl:message terminate=yes to sanity check your incoming XML - Read all of http://dpawson.co.uk/xsl/sect2/sect21.html Good luck. .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Michael Donnermeyer deftly quothed: ...if you take the time to look. Ahem. Yes. Thank you, Michael. :* ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Noise (was) Mambo Accessibility
Quoting Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is it my imagination, or has this list acquired an unreasonable amount of noise lately? Aren't there separate lists for CMS and/or software issues? Call me a grouch, but all I've seen in the last little while has been FF1.5 and Mambo... C'mon, guys - can we get back OT, please? N I'm quite happy for the M Accessibility thread to be shifted to the WSG CMS list.. (along with anything else mentioning any form of CMS) Anyone else ? Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media http://www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not a question so much as a discussion topic -- is there a particular look to standards websites? Is there an aesthetic developing from the technologies we use? Many standards websites have subtle gradients in backgrounds -- is this because designers are confident in using PNG files which do gradients better for smaller file sizes? Standards websites tend to use rounded corners -- is that because of moz-border-radius? And of course we see fewer designs these days which are just Photoshop files locked into a complex table -- designs with DIVs are more likely to have breathing space than try to be pixel-perfect. So, is the technology dictating the look, or are all these things just accidents of history because some major relaunch like the stopdesign/AdaptivePath redesign of Blogger looked that way? Maybe this can be identified as a trait in the many designs of developers who implement web standards, but I can't see how these attributes form marks of identification of attributes of adopting web standards (I realise this is not necessary what you are saying). I think it's more to do with what is achieved by following web standards, and what pitfalls are avoided. I would tend to say that developers that adopt web standards are much more aware of both the pitfalls of poor web development process and the benefit of better SDLC process and also are much more focused on real world usability and accessibility issues. http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/benefits/ http://www.webstandards.org/learn/reference/web_standards_for_business.html etc, etc. --- Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Noise (was) Mambo Accessibility
Seconded. You're likely to get a more targetted response to your queries as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 9:23 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Noise (was) Mambo Accessibility Quoting Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is it my imagination, or has this list acquired an unreasonable amount of noise lately? Aren't there separate lists for CMS and/or software issues? Call me a grouch, but all I've seen in the last little while has been FF1.5 and Mambo... C'mon, guys - can we get back OT, please? N I'm quite happy for the M Accessibility thread to be shifted to the WSG CMS list.. (along with anything else mentioning any form of CMS) Anyone else ? Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media http://www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics
Ted Drake wrote: Hi John Sites look similar because the early standards-based web developers were so influential. CSS-based design is different beast than table hacking and people feel more comfortable riffing off a successful site than learning a new technique with a design out of their head. Yes, the ones who had good design aesthetics did. There were a lot of early practitioners of standards back in the late nineties, but they did not have the same design sense to drive this movement. It was only when the better designers came along that there were examples of standards implementation that really showed a path to follow. Also, I don't think that five years ago you could market tableless designs with any success. As standards-based design matures, you will see new varieties that table hacking never dreamed of. Personally, I'm hoping to have some time to begin exploring CSS3 layouts much more. IE7 isn't that far off in the future and we can begin using more sophisticated behaviors now with Safari, Opera, and Firefox. Yes, I think that standards based designs are going to show marked better usability than those who stick with the old path. I choose to live in the countryside, no broadband, it's a good reminder just how frustrating some sites can be to use on dialup, a frustration rarely experienced with sites properly implementing standards. Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Hello Michael, I used WordPress up until v.1.5 due to TXP being in beta and RC versions, but have since slowly switched to TXP for all my sites. The only site I can think of at the moment that is running TXP (and doing a good job of it) is Hicks Design (http:// www.hicksdesign.co.uk/). I'm sure there's more out there, just can't think of them right now. There are a lot of sites on TXP: http://txpmagazine.kbbu.de/all_sites/ -- Vladimir Yashnikov http://www.yashnikov.info/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: the basics of Firefox (was RE: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser)
Adam Morris wrote: I'm having the same trouble and, yes, I've clicked the bloody Edit Options button but bog all happens!! When things don't work the way they should after an upgrade, uninstall, completely remove the directory FF was installed in, remove the profile folder, and start with a nice fresh program folder and profile. -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Training Courses....
Good day fellow standardistas,This request is quite off-topic, so please, reply off list.I am looking for training courses - more specifically, interface design, user interaction design, information architecture. I have a very limited amount of time to suggest a course or two to my team leader, so i am enlisting your help - do you know of any (relatively short) courses that cater to any of these needs, preferably based around sydney? It's easy for me to find a technical skills course (any type of coding course, for example), and it's easy for me to find a soft skills course (like time management, conflict resolution, etc), but I'm really struggling to find any companies who provide any forms of training in this area. As information architecture and interface design is a big part of accessibility (laying out the interface and information in a site so that people can use it effectively), I was thinking that maybe someone may have some knowledge in this area. Again, please respond off-list. Thanks for your time!Regards,Adam Reitsma
[WSG] Software support and the WSG list
Hi all Just another reminder that the WSG list is not the place to discuss software support and bugs in your favourite software. To avoid creating noise on the list, please use the appropriate vendor channel to discuss. If you don't like this or disagree, email the list admins. Don't discuss it on the WSG list. Thanks James --- admin
Re: [WSG] FF1.5 and font sizes
Brilliant! thank you! I remember doing that a few days ago, but don't remember why I did it. I'm a bad web developer. :-p ciao, Z Z u l e m a O r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ browser : http://getfirefox.com/ Stuart Sherwood wrote: I created this problem for myself by altering the default font preferences under Tools Options Content. If you also changed these settings, this might be the cause. Returning in to Times New Roman, 16 fixed it for me. Regards, Stuart ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] editor
I am new to (trying to learn how) constructing standards conforming web pages using XHTML and would like to know what HTML editor you folks that are light years ahead of me would recommend? Like HTMLTidy? I am Windows based with IE v6 which I will soon be switching to Firefox based on this list. Thank you. Lori
RE: [WSG] editor
From: Lori Cole ...using XHTML and would like to know what HTML editor Like HTMLTidy? HTML-Kit (incorporates Tidy) will work, as will just about any plain text editor, with or without syntax highlighting. EditPad, jEdit, Notetab and so on. jEdit is pretty clever and it runs on most platforms since it's a Java app, it's free too. -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
Before we get a flood of posts along the lines of my favourite editor is and mine too ... Have you looked at the resources section of the WSG website? http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/ Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
On 12/1/2005 6:43 PM Lori Cole wrote: I am new to (trying to learn how) constructing standards conforming web pages using XHTML and would like to know what HTML editor you folks that are light years ahead of me would recommend? Like HTMLTidy? I am Windows based with IE v6 which I will soon be switching to Firefox based on this list. Thank you. Lori There's a pretty comprehensive list of editors, with comments, at the css-d wiki[1]. I'd suggest avoiding WYSIWYG editors (Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc.) until you develop your skills some. Select something that does syntax-highlighting (color coding), it will make your life easier. I like jEdit[2], but I'm sure other people's favorites are just as good. [1] http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssEditors [2] http://www.jedit.org/ -- Steve Clason Web Design and Development Boulder, Colorado, USA www.topdogstrategy.com (303)818-8590 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
Lori Cole wrote: I am new to (trying to learn how) constructing standards conforming web pages using XHTML Since you're new, you might want to stick with HTML4 until a) browser support for XHTML increases (IE does not support XHTML), and b) you've learned and understand all the differences between HTML and XHTML (there's much more than just minor syntax differences). and would like to know what HTML editor you folks that are light years ahead of me would recommend? Like HTMLTidy? I find Dreamweaver 8 fairly good for hand coding. It's WYSIWYG editor is ok, it will produce relatively sensible markup, but I recommend avoiding such features until you're more confident and can control whatever rubbish they output. Even the best WYSIWYG editors will output rubbish for inexperienced users. I've also heard good things about HTML Kit, though I've never used it myself. http://www.chami.com/html-kit/ Avoid MS Frontpage like the plague, it will output rubbish for even the most experienced users. I am Windows based with IE v6 which I will soon be switching to Firefox based on this list. Make sure you test in at least Firefox 1.0.7 and 1.5. You'll also want to get a copy of Opera 8.5 and 9.0 preview 1. You may wish to test on earlier versions of Opera as well, but I wouldn't bother testing on anything lower than Opera 7. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Since you're new, you might want to stick with HTML4 until a) browser support for XHTML increases (IE does not support XHTML), Heh... please elabourate on how IE doesn't support XHTML. .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
Matthew Cruickshank wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: Since you're new, you might want to stick with HTML4 until a) browser support for XHTML increases (IE does not support XHTML), Heh... please elabourate on how IE doesn't support XHTML. Try this in IE: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/?chapter=XHTMLwithHeader=1 Oops, that's served as application/xhtml+xml, so it won't work. Here's the same article as text/html: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/?chapter=XHTML One other thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned in that particular article is that if you use the ?xml? declartion (or, in fact, anything before the DOCTYPE), then it will trigger quirks mode in IE6 and below. IE7 will fix that particular bug, but still won't support XHTML properly. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility
Guys, Thanks for all the feedback! Backend is important as one of our content providers is blind. Does anyone know much more about Joomla? They are possibly prepared to upgrade (As they see this is just the same thing). I want to know whether its possible to do this with either Mambo or Joomla but I guess otherwise it will need be something else so your suggestions of other good CMS's are welcome! Thanks again. Regards, Lloyd On 12/2/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never used it myself, but you might want to take a look at Joomla. It's compatible with Mambo at this point http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid=44option=com_faqcatid=7 and the developers are at least are trying to be compliant and accessible http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/ Cheers, Steve Ferguson - http://illumit.com/ Areas that Joomla is dealing with: 1) Frontend and backend accessibility considerations 2) Well formed, semantic code. Minimal cruft. 3) Appropriate use of markup 4) Design standards (e.g. looking at W3C Core Styles, what classes we really need, correct use of classes) I say this as part of the Usability and Accessibility Group within Joomla. Whilst I'm not the actual core dev team, I have been helping out with ideas and code architecture. Joomla is going in the right direction. It's just not there yet..;) Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media http:///www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Validators
On Nov 28, 2005, at 3:59 PM, Geoff Pack wrote: Alan Trick wrote: Is there a problem with this: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/DOWNLOAD.html Only that it's written in Java - the server admins here would prefer something else. It looks like we will have to go with it anyway, as we can't find any alternatives. Thanks also for the other responses. We currently use the w3c online validator for sites as we develop them, but we are looking for something that will enable us to trawl though all our content and check it. I built the css validator a couple of days ago. I had planned on making a binary distribution available, but was reluctant to do so after I found quite a few problems using the command line version of the software. I've kicked it around for a few days and decided that some people might find it useful, warts and all. So if you are interest running the css-validator locally take a look at http://illumit.com/css-validator/. I'd appreciate your feedback. Sincerely, Steve Ferguson - Illumit http://illumit.com cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] editor
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Try this in IE: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/?chapter=XHTMLwithHeader=1 Oops, that's served as application/xhtml+xml, so it won't work. Here's the same article as text/html: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/?chapter=XHTML One other thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned in that particular article is that if you use the ?xml? declartion (or, in fact, anything before the DOCTYPE), then it will trigger quirks mode in IE6 and below. IE7 will fix that particular bug, but still won't support XHTML properly. Right... rather than jumping to conclusions I was just wanting to make sure you were telling a beginner at html/css that IE does not support XHTML because of relatively minor things like http headers and xml declarations. I'm a bit of a standards nazi, don't get me wrong, but I think you're misleading Lori. I mean no one goes around saying Firefox doesn't support HTML and CSS because it doesn't pass the Acid test or implement soft-hyphens[1] As a community we shouldn't stop demanding more compatibility, but your statement doesn't seem measured to me. [1] http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/shy.html .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues (was: Re: editor)
Matthew Cruickshank wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/?chapter=XHTML ...if you use the ?xml? declaration..., then it will trigger quirks mode in IE6 Right... rather than jumping to conclusions I was just wanting to make sure you were telling a beginner at html/css that IE does not support XHTML because of relatively minor things like http headers and xml declarations. Such things aren't relatively minor. If you're not using the right MIME type, you may as well be using HTML4, as you're just relying on browsers error recovery techniques to understand XHTML. Plus, I'm sure you've read Ian Hickson's Serving XHTML as text/html considered harmful article?! Also, it's very important to be aware of the xml declaration issue, beginners must not learn to rely on quirks mode behaviour, they need to learn standards compliant behavior from the beginning, so it's important that it not be used. I didn't even mention other issues such as scripts, stylesheets, and the use of named entity references in XHTML, which are also important for authors to understand, but such a discussion would just take too long and it's much easier to tell a beginner to use HTML4 properly, than for them to try and understand all issues with XHTML when they don't have much experience with HTML. I'm a bit of a standards nazi, don't get me wrong, but I think you're misleading Lori. I don't. I think it's important for beginners to learn correctly from the beginning, not be mislead into thinking that they're using XHTML properly and thinking that it is supported by IE, when it's clearly not. I mean no one goes around saying Firefox doesn't support HTML and CSS because it doesn't pass the Acid test or implement soft-hyphens[1] There's a difference between limited support and absolutely no support. In the case of Firefox support for HTML and CSS, it has limited support and the soft-hyphen bug is just one of them that has been around for many years. In fact, no browser fully supports HTML4, but their support is sufficient enough for it be used, as most of the unsupported features (mostly SHORTTAG related) provide no additional expressive power over the supported ones. No browser fully supports CSS2.1 yet either, though some are very close. But, again, the support is sufficient enough for many of the features to be widely used. In the case of IE and XHTML, there isn't even limited support for it, there's none at all. There's only complicated error handling that manages to make sense out of all those extra slashes when it's parsing it as tag soup. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics
Hi John, Many standards websites have subtle gradients in backgrounds -- is this because designers are confident in using PNG files which do gradients better for smaller file sizes? My opinion is that gradients and textures are introduced to recreate the textures of real world surfaces not otherwise available to a projected light display. As an example, A List Apart's new design [1] harks back to Victorian woodcut typographic elements which lends the page 'warmth'. So, is the technology dictating the look, or are all these things just accidents of history because some major relaunch like the stopdesign/AdaptivePath redesign of Blogger looked that way? Perhaps an awareness of standards (as suggested by Russ in his expanded web standards checklist [2]) begets an awareness of accessibility and the impact of presentation on accessibility (read text-legibility in this instance). If this is the case, then form is likely to follow function. Type *not* set at 9 pixels, less incidence of type-as-image and establishing a 'style guide' (focus on content) rather than 'poster' (focus on image) suggest that the designer is more aware of end-use. When seen on mass it is likely that similar 'solutions' will be found to the same design 'problems'. As noted by Ted, the pioneers in the field of web standards have set a visual tone that those new to the field may either learn from or aspire to recreate. In particular blogs have rapidly changed the overall tone of the web both at a visual and functional level. In some ways the default templates for blogging software have set an expectation that webpages should be fixed-width and centered to the screen (not an opinion that I share). For a non-web equivalent some clients now believe that a logo is only a logo when it: -has a shadow -is 3D -or is inset or embossed If a 'web standard look' is the look that is associated with the websites that are relevant (i.e. contemporary/topical) then design agencies may 'borrow' this aesthetic to be seen as contemporary. The 'web standards look' also has much in common with the new interfaces to the Macintosh and Windows operating systems. The dark to light gradient of the OS X icons being an obvious reference. Again this can be seen as drawing on a familiar paradigm to minimise potential barriers between the user and content. [1] A List Apart http://www.alistapart.com [2] Web standards checklist http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/checklist.cfm Cheers, -- Andy Kirkwood | Creative Director Motive | web.design.integrity http://www.motive.co.nz ph: (04) 3 800 800 fx: (04) 970 9693 mob: 021 369 693 93 Rintoul St, Newtown PO Box 7150, Wellington South, New Zealand ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues
So, to summarise why you keep saying there's no support for XHTML in IE - not supporting XHTML's HTTP header, - not being able to put ?xml ... ? above the doctype, - the internal rendering engine being a tagsoup parser, rather than an XML parser. And therefore this means IE doesn't even have limited support for XHTML? Well, we clearly have _very_ different ideas about the English language, and I doubt we'll convince each other otherwise about what sufficient support to render learning XHTML useful would be. Later, .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues
G'day If you're not using the right MIME type, you may as well be using HTML4, as you're just relying on browsers error recovery techniques to understand XHTML. I code in xhtml Strict and serve it as text/html. My code is future-proof, valid and well structured. If I code in HTML4, there is less need for writing properly structured documents. If at some point in the future browsers understand xhtml served as xthml, changing the way it's served is a relatively simple operation. Re-coding from HTML to xhtml (and unlearning bad coding habits) is not as simple. Plus, I'm sure you've read Ian Hickson's Serving XHTML as text/html considered harmful article?! One man's view, based on an assumption that people will write xhtml tagsoup. Even if they do, they will find out soon enough. I can't speak for others, but I write proper xhtml, not html tagsoup translated to xhtml. I think we've had a thread about this article already, so will leave it there. In the case of IE and XHTML, there isn't even limited support for it, there's none at all. While technically correct, it is misleading, particularly for newbies, who might read it as don't code in xhtml - people with MSIE will not be able to view your site. It's not true if the page is served as text/html. Also, it's very important to be aware of the xml declaration issue, beginners must not learn to rely on quirks mode behaviour, they need to learn standards compliant behavior from the beginning, so it's important that it not be used. I agree with you on that point. I think it's important for beginners to learn correctly from the beginning. Exactly. Teach them properly structured xhtml 1.0 and serve it in a MIME type that the browsers people use can work with. Ready to reap the benefits of X(HT)ML later, when browsers support it. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Curse you IE! Float Drop suggestions?
Greetings all, I'm hoping one of you CSS gurus out there who remember the cures for all of IE's quirks can solve this float drop instance please. Here's the mockup I need to code up: http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/mockup.htm Here's the coded up page thus far: http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp Firefox, Opera - everything lines up swell and dandy, but curse that IE! I'm stuck already with the occursed float drop. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Curse you IE! Float Drop suggestions?
I managed to solve my problems by simply stepping around the issue. It does still leave the question of somehow removing the 3px space from around images in IE which is the root of the troubles I was having. Thanks, Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Greetings all, I'm hoping one of you CSS gurus out there who remember the cures for all of IE's quirks can solve this float drop instance please. Here's the mockup I need to code up: http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/mockup.htm Here's the coded up page thus far: http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp Firefox, Opera - everything lines up swell and dandy, but curse that IE! I'm stuck already with the occursed float drop. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
