[WSG] RE: Web standards compliant text scroller and it's accessible but...
Peeps, I wrote this text scroller upon request a few weeks ago: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk/accessible_scroller.html It's XHTML strict, standards compliant, accessible and manipulates the DOM via JavaScript. I have a slight problem with IE v5.0. It doesn't recognise the no-wrap property. Consequently what should be on one line is on three. Not good. Now I could insert elements via the DOM but the idea leaves cold. Any other suggestions? mike foskett http://www.webSemantics.co.uk ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** <>
RE: [WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
You could try Shaun Inman's Flash Replacement technique (IFR). Good for making anti-aliased headings: http://www.shauninman.com/mentary/past/ifr_revisited_and_revised.php Luke Moulton > Hi, I wanted to know if anyone knows how to make fonts > smooth, as in the > Photoshop option using CSS. > > You see I like Trebuchet MS, but sometimes when I use it on > pages directly, > I hate it because it isn't smooth and I know that I have read > some where of > how to make fonts smooth with CSS. > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
Will this work for now? and validate for now? font-aliasing: none | smooth | heavy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Search Tool
Do you want to include a Search Tool or a keyword ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of amer amer Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 13:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Search Tool Hi Guys, I am a beginner in HTML and CSS, I need to include a Search Tool (by entering a keyword to search inside my website) in my new website, does anyone help me in that? Thank you in advance. Regards, Am _ Share a single photo or an entire photo slide show right inside MSN(r) Messenger. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN(r) Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Some light reading
Throwing Tables Out the Window http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/throwing_tables/ These web sites are identical - or are they? http://phnk.com/design/survey/ A Programmer's Perspective of CSS http://www.uptodata.com/css/ CSS 1.0 Once-A-Day http://www.weeklystandards.com/archives/2004/07/26/css_10_onceaday/ Title Attribute - Your Take http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/archives/title_attribute_your_take.php Top 10 Usability Blunders of the Big Players http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1376 CSS - Auto-height and margin-collapsing http://www.researchkitchen.de/blog/archives/css-autoheight-and-margincollaps ing.php Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] CMS
When I have time I'll start a new thread addressing this issue over on the cms list where we should continue it. Geoff > -Original Message- > From: Amit Karmakar > > We use Interwoven's Teamsite at work. Going from version 5.5.2 to 6.1 > has been nothing but a disaster. The Standard version of 6.1 is buggy > and as they put it they are working on it and would probably have a > solution in the coming months. > that is not having a go at Teamsite... but all i am trying to say is.. > > validation I still think is a different kettle of fish than content > management. and on the premise that were true and agreeable(though > I know the boundaries are rather vague here) CMS should not have a > sales pitch that their code is 'valid' as opposed to the rest. > > CMS by definition are modules that manage content. If they did > validate code(not a requirement) that is good but a rather redundant > feature. Validation is the work of the architect, designer, developer > not the module. therefore, selling a product or trying to with a 'we > produce valid code' is an eyewash! > my $0.02 > > no I dont have anything against WordPress but i do think that > statement is a mouthful. > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] CMS [ADMIN] Moved to CMS List
Hi, There is a specific WSG list for CMS matters. Please join and use that list for this discussion. http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resource131.cfm for details. P > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Deering > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 11:48 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [WSG] CMS > > > -Original Message- > > From: Vlad Alexander (XStandard) > > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > >>But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites > > >>standards compliance when you hand it over to the client > > > > Actually, we are working hard to address this specific > issue. Check out > > http://xstandard.com > > > > Regards, > > -Vlad > > XStandard Development Team > > XHTML Strict / 1.1 WYSIWYG Editor > > Yes, this is good, and many CMS's have similar editors built in; > Cocoon/Lenya and Plone. But one still has to sign off to customer > explicitly stating that if they meddle with the code your warranty of > standards compliance and accessibility is then void. > > The other problem is contracts specifically specifying that > they must comply > with ATAG. I have not seen one yet, but I am sure it is > coming, especially > in government contracts. > > Unfortunately, from the developers side, ATAG is a rather > naive document, I > would never sign a contract that references ATAG compliance. > Why, because > all web based authoring tools must comply with WCAG1 P1. > Show me one decent > one that works with scripting turned off? > > Does xstandard meet this requirement? > > I think this is a reasonable accessibility request for web > sites, but to > deny the type of authoring environments via web forms that > only scripting > can deliver, is putting an almost impossible criteria on this type of > authoring environment. It would mean you could only do > simple processing of > text like wrapping around line breaks. > > If you don't think this is an issue, I have been in > situations where I have > had to comply to the letter of the specifications, and in > some cases write > detailed explanations of our code referencing a series of > templates and show > that that code on deliverable, is standard and accessible. > And I wouldn't > be so naive as to believe that no one will ever sue you for > the holes in > ATAG. It will happen if ATAG is not cleaned up and clarified. > > Geoff > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
The "font-smooth" property is part of the CSS3 working draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts/#font-smooth-prop with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information & Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
If you were hoping for a hidden CSS rule a la font-aliasing: none | smooth | heavy or similar, you'll be disappointed. The rendering of fonts is still at the mercy of the browser/operating system. You have no more control over this via CSS than you have with traditional non-CSS driven webpages. Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] My first message and my first step
Hi > The problem is the right menu look more right in > Mozilla Firefox, in IE look good. > The test page is in http://diego.igloo.cl/test/ I believe your problem is in the style rule *>div#sombra which sets the container's width to 708px. This is greater than the sum of lado_izquierdo (492px) and lado_derecho (200px). 492+200=692. Since MSIE does not understand the rule *>div#sombra, it does not apply the 708px width. Firefox does apply it, so lado_derecho, which is set to position:absolute;right:0px is 16 pixels further to the right. Incidentally, you can reduce your CSS somewhat by using shorthand notation for your margins. Instead of: margin-top: 0px; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: auto; You can write: margin: 0 auto; Note that for 0 length measurements, the unit (like px) is optional. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Web Developer www.bwdzine.com / www.betterwebdesign.com.au Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** Scanned by eScan Anti-Virus and Content Security Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] CMS
> -Original Message- > From: Vlad Alexander (XStandard) > > Hi Geoff, > > >>But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites > >>standards compliance when you hand it over to the client > > Actually, we are working hard to address this specific issue. Check out > http://xstandard.com > > Regards, > -Vlad > XStandard Development Team > XHTML Strict / 1.1 WYSIWYG Editor Yes, this is good, and many CMS's have similar editors built in; Cocoon/Lenya and Plone. But one still has to sign off to customer explicitly stating that if they meddle with the code your warranty of standards compliance and accessibility is then void. The other problem is contracts specifically specifying that they must comply with ATAG. I have not seen one yet, but I am sure it is coming, especially in government contracts. Unfortunately, from the developers side, ATAG is a rather naive document, I would never sign a contract that references ATAG compliance. Why, because all web based authoring tools must comply with WCAG1 P1. Show me one decent one that works with scripting turned off? Does xstandard meet this requirement? I think this is a reasonable accessibility request for web sites, but to deny the type of authoring environments via web forms that only scripting can deliver, is putting an almost impossible criteria on this type of authoring environment. It would mean you could only do simple processing of text like wrapping around line breaks. If you don't think this is an issue, I have been in situations where I have had to comply to the letter of the specifications, and in some cases write detailed explanations of our code referencing a series of templates and show that that code on deliverable, is standard and accessible. And I wouldn't be so naive as to believe that no one will ever sue you for the holes in ATAG. It will happen if ATAG is not cleaned up and clarified. Geoff * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] CMS
We use Interwoven's Teamsite at work. Going from version 5.5.2 to 6.1 has been nothing but a disaster. The Standard version of 6.1 is buggy and as they put it they are working on it and would probably have a solution in the coming months. that is not having a go at Teamsite... but all i am trying to say is.. validation I still think is a different kettle of fish than content management. and on the premise that were true and agreeable(though I know the boundaries are rather vague here) CMS should not have a sales pitch that their code is 'valid' as opposed to the rest. CMS by definition are modules that manage content. If they did validate code(not a requirement) that is good but a rather redundant feature. Validation is the work of the architect, designer, developer not the module. therefore, selling a product or trying to with a 'we produce valid code' is an eyewash! my $0.02 no I dont have anything against WordPress but i do think that statement is a mouthful. On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:23:21 -0400, Vlad Alexander (XStandard) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Geoff, > > >>But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites > >>standards compliance when you hand it over to the client > > Actually, we are working hard to address this specific issue. Check out > http://xstandard.com > > Regards, > -Vlad > XStandard Development Team > XHTML Strict / 1.1 WYSIWYG Editor > > - Original Message - > From: "Geoff Deering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:45 PM > Subject: RE: [WSG] CMS > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Amit Karmakar > > > > > > When we say CMS we mean Content Management, well in a nut shell > > > managing the content, publishing etc. Content Management and > > > Validation of code are 2 different things. > > > What does the group think? > > > > > > > I think the boundaries are slightly blurred in this area. It's true that > > CMSs and Code validation are separate in many products. If a CMS was to > > enforce code validation it would loose acceptance and market share in the > > quirks mode market. So most CMSs wisely have these features as add in > > modules, plugins, macros, whatever, which facilitates both market needs. > > > > These tools are not so much a requirement for the developers sake, as most > > standards based developers can easily build templates that will validate. > > The problem comes in with users adding content via whatever means the CMS > > facilitates this, and having backend tools to clean this up to meet > > standards based QA. > > > > The minute you have users adding content, and you want to address W3C > > standards and web accessibility, the ATAG guidelines > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10/ & http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/) come > > into play. These guidelines are meant to address any type of authoring of > > web sites, including any form with a textarea for posting content. > > > > If you read these guidelines and have a problem with them in the context > of > > web based authoring, I share your dilemma, because there are issues here > > that need to be addressed in ATAG2 to better serve all areas of web > > authoring > > (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2004JanMar/0104.html). > > > > It's very difficult, almost impossible to comply with ATAG when deploying > > web based authoring interfaces, but the development community has > addressed > > this issue to a large degree to make our life easier with the backend > tools > > to address these requirements. > > > > Any front end or backend system that allows users to manage content is by > > definition an authoring tool, and if you want to maintain the standards > > integrity of your site then you need to check and make sure that all > > authoring input is parsed, checked, corrected and validated before > > publishing it, otherwise non valid markup can enter your system and your > > page is no longer valid. Of course this is not much of a problem if you > > don't really care about standards compliant markup. > > > > MT, TextPattern, Drupal, Plone, Cocoon, etc all have modules to manage > this > > requirement. But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites standards > > compliance when you hand it over to the client. If they are allowed > access > > to the engine or templates, then the QA standards compliance component of > > the deliverable is then void (at least that's how I work, cause if you > don't > > state this clearly, they will come back at you for delivering a faulty > > publishing system). > > > > But as far as most of the commercial offerings, like Interwoven Teamsite, > > Documentum, etc are concerned, I don't think they address this issue at > all, > > I could be wrong, I don't know them that well, but I have used them > briefly > > and didn't see anything to address these issues. > > > > Geoff > > > > * > > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org
Re: [WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
The smoothing of fonts is outside the scope of CSS - it is a Operating System setting. Different operating systems handle it differently - for example: - OSX handles fonts beautifully and can make sites far easier to read. - Linux handles fonts almost as good as OSX but not quite - but it is definetely easier to read than my work system which is windows 2000. - Windows XP will do font antialiasing (particularly on LCD's using cleartype) but on standards screens it wont anti-alias most fonts. Regards, Mark * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tabindex tags not necessary here?
I think that if the default tab order of the page is logical you don't need to use tabindex. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information & Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Smooth fonts with CSS
Hi, I wanted to know if anyone knows how to make fonts smooth, as in the Photoshop option using CSS. You see I like Trebuchet MS, but sometimes when I use it on pages directly, I hate it because it isn't smooth and I know that I have read some where of how to make fonts smooth with CSS. Please if you do, reply --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Why do (some) web developers user Firefox? [ADMIN] Wind it up please
I think we're done on this pretty well OT subject now thanks. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Tabindex tags not necessary here?
Dear all, I have a question: Doesn't my web site pages here http://www.webnauts.net have a logical navigation structure, therefore I do need to use the "Tabindex" tags?I ask, because someone advised me against the use of tab indexing - using it only if the natural ordering is misleading. Thanks in advance for your kind support. John S. BritsiosPrincipal Web Accessibility Consultant,Usability Specialist & Trainer Webnauts NetThielenstr. 2D-33602 BielefeldGermany Home: http://www.webnauts.netForum: http://forum.webnauts.net
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
> Firefox is excellent, only was curious if the > security issue talked about was fixed. I don't imagine it will be long until it is fixed. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253121 That is the beauty of open source. All software can have bugs. It is how fast they are fixed that is of importance. There is a neat test case here as a proof of concept: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=154374&action=view * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] CMS
Hi Geoff, >>But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites >>standards compliance when you hand it over to the client Actually, we are working hard to address this specific issue. Check out http://xstandard.com Regards, -Vlad XStandard Development Team XHTML Strict / 1.1 WYSIWYG Editor - Original Message - From: "Geoff Deering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] CMS > > -Original Message- > > From: Amit Karmakar > > > > When we say CMS we mean Content Management, well in a nut shell > > managing the content, publishing etc. Content Management and > > Validation of code are 2 different things. > > What does the group think? > > > > I think the boundaries are slightly blurred in this area. It's true that > CMSs and Code validation are separate in many products. If a CMS was to > enforce code validation it would loose acceptance and market share in the > quirks mode market. So most CMSs wisely have these features as add in > modules, plugins, macros, whatever, which facilitates both market needs. > > These tools are not so much a requirement for the developers sake, as most > standards based developers can easily build templates that will validate. > The problem comes in with users adding content via whatever means the CMS > facilitates this, and having backend tools to clean this up to meet > standards based QA. > > The minute you have users adding content, and you want to address W3C > standards and web accessibility, the ATAG guidelines > (http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10/ & http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/) come > into play. These guidelines are meant to address any type of authoring of > web sites, including any form with a textarea for posting content. > > If you read these guidelines and have a problem with them in the context of > web based authoring, I share your dilemma, because there are issues here > that need to be addressed in ATAG2 to better serve all areas of web > authoring > (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2004JanMar/0104.html). > > It's very difficult, almost impossible to comply with ATAG when deploying > web based authoring interfaces, but the development community has addressed > this issue to a large degree to make our life easier with the backend tools > to address these requirements. > > Any front end or backend system that allows users to manage content is by > definition an authoring tool, and if you want to maintain the standards > integrity of your site then you need to check and make sure that all > authoring input is parsed, checked, corrected and validated before > publishing it, otherwise non valid markup can enter your system and your > page is no longer valid. Of course this is not much of a problem if you > don't really care about standards compliant markup. > > MT, TextPattern, Drupal, Plone, Cocoon, etc all have modules to manage this > requirement. But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites standards > compliance when you hand it over to the client. If they are allowed access > to the engine or templates, then the QA standards compliance component of > the deliverable is then void (at least that's how I work, cause if you don't > state this clearly, they will come back at you for delivering a faulty > publishing system). > > But as far as most of the commercial offerings, like Interwoven Teamsite, > Documentum, etc are concerned, I don't think they address this issue at all, > I could be wrong, I don't know them that well, but I have used them briefly > and didn't see anything to address these issues. > > Geoff > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
They sure do, like I said I do suppost firefox as long as I am on PC and Safari on the Mac. Firefox is excellent, only was curious if the security issue talked about was fixed. Regards, Amit Karmakar www.karmakars.com On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:31:57 -0400, Brian Cummiskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Amit Karmakar wrote: > > >Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. > >http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ > > > > > > > ALL software will have holes in it. > > Fact is, mozilla had a patch for it the same day practically... IE's > exploits go weeks, and most the time, months. > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > > -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Brian Cummiskey wrote: ALL software will have holes in it. Fact is, mozilla had a patch for it the same day practically In most cases, unless you follow security issues very closely, it's likely you'll hear about the fix before the bug. ... IE's exploits go weeks, and most the time, months. ...if ever. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] more title discussions
Some points to consider: For screen reading software that supports the title attribute the user has the choice to read out either img elements alt or title attribute, not both. (based on limited testing) The londesc attribute is only permitted on the img/frame & iframe elements The permitted value for a longdesc attribute is either an absolute or relative URL.(pointing to a document containg the long description) The londesc is not widely supported (no browser support for it on frame/iframe). (source:http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/) "To view long descriptions in Internet Explorer 6.0, Netscape 6.1?, and Mozilla 0.9?, hover over the image and select Properties from the context menu. The resulting dialog box contains the long description URL. To view long descriptions in iCab, hover over the image and bring up the context menu, then select "Description" from the "Images" submenu." (source:http://www.robinlionheart.com/stds/html4/results.xhtm) with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information & Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Amit Karmakar wrote: Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ ALL software will have holes in it. Fact is, mozilla had a patch for it the same day practically... IE's exploits go weeks, and most the time, months. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] CMS
> -Original Message- > From: Amit Karmakar > > When we say CMS we mean Content Management, well in a nut shell > managing the content, publishing etc. Content Management and > Validation of code are 2 different things. > What does the group think? > I think the boundaries are slightly blurred in this area. It's true that CMSs and Code validation are separate in many products. If a CMS was to enforce code validation it would loose acceptance and market share in the quirks mode market. So most CMSs wisely have these features as add in modules, plugins, macros, whatever, which facilitates both market needs. These tools are not so much a requirement for the developers sake, as most standards based developers can easily build templates that will validate. The problem comes in with users adding content via whatever means the CMS facilitates this, and having backend tools to clean this up to meet standards based QA. The minute you have users adding content, and you want to address W3C standards and web accessibility, the ATAG guidelines (http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10/ & http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG10-TECHS/) come into play. These guidelines are meant to address any type of authoring of web sites, including any form with a textarea for posting content. If you read these guidelines and have a problem with them in the context of web based authoring, I share your dilemma, because there are issues here that need to be addressed in ATAG2 to better serve all areas of web authoring (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2004JanMar/0104.html). It's very difficult, almost impossible to comply with ATAG when deploying web based authoring interfaces, but the development community has addressed this issue to a large degree to make our life easier with the backend tools to address these requirements. Any front end or backend system that allows users to manage content is by definition an authoring tool, and if you want to maintain the standards integrity of your site then you need to check and make sure that all authoring input is parsed, checked, corrected and validated before publishing it, otherwise non valid markup can enter your system and your page is no longer valid. Of course this is not much of a problem if you don't really care about standards compliant markup. MT, TextPattern, Drupal, Plone, Cocoon, etc all have modules to manage this requirement. But still it is no guarantee to maintain the sites standards compliance when you hand it over to the client. If they are allowed access to the engine or templates, then the QA standards compliance component of the deliverable is then void (at least that's how I work, cause if you don't state this clearly, they will come back at you for delivering a faulty publishing system). But as far as most of the commercial offerings, like Interwoven Teamsite, Documentum, etc are concerned, I don't think they address this issue at all, I could be wrong, I don't know them that well, but I have used them briefly and didn't see anything to address these issues. Geoff * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
It is, in my experience, best to start with the closest implementation to the standards you can find (in this case I choose Firefox/Gecko) and then code for the exceptional cases. If you start from an outlying position (for example IE 5/Win) and then try to work the other way you will find that your efforts will need to be much greater and your CSS will be much muddier. It is better to start with a 'pure' framework and then include the handling for exceptional cases in a modular fashion. I also take issue with the practicality of installing all browsers that could possibly view your site given the variety of operating systems (have you tested using NetPositive on BeOS lately?) and devices. Mark Harwood wrote: A good developer should have all browser installed which everone he uses as his default is down to his personal prefrence neither give you an advantage over the other, as we should all be looking at supporting them all! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] nested lists as menus...
Hi Scott, These two lists may help: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic2/horizontal03.htm or: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic2/horizontal01.htm Russ on 30/7/04 5:18 AM, Scott Reston at wrote: > thanks! > > just to clarify, i'm not trying to create drop-downs. just style the menu so > that top-levels are horizontal with sub-lists beneath. > > http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html > > shows what i'm going for. the big problem is that i want the width to be > determined by the size of the content, so i can't set a width for the items. > display: inline doesn't seem to work. > > scott > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] nested lists as menus...
thanks! just to clarify, i'm not trying to create drop-downs. just style the menu so that top-levels are horizontal with sub-lists beneath. http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html shows what i'm going for. the big problem is that i want the width to be determined by the size of the content, so i can't set a width for the items. display: inline doesn't seem to work. scott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mugur Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] nested lists as menus... Hi, Scott I think one of the following liks shoul put you back on track ! http://www.alistapart.com/articles/horizdropdowns/ or http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/ Browse the site, for it has other variants and variations that may be usefull to you this time ! Hope it helps :) Scott Reston wrote: >i'm having some difficulty styling nested lists for use as a menu. I'd like s in >the top-level list to display horizontally, with the nested lists displayed below >their parent. for instance > >top level top level >sub sub >sub sub > >i've got a simplified demo up at: >http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html > >i can get this to work by floating the list items left, but floated elements should >have a width and i won't know the contents of the menu (someone else makes edits) so >that i can set a width. i don't want to set widths as a percentage since i want the >spacing to be the same between each element. The working, but non-spec version is at >the top of this page: > >http://www.capstrat.com/cs/ > >can anyone give me a hand with this? > >Scott Reston >Director, Web Development >Capstrat >919/882.1966 v >919/834.7959 f >1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102 >Raleigh, NC 27607 >www.capstrat.com >* >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >* > > > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay here's one of the leading standard-compliant flash inclusion techniques. enjoy! scott -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Olajide Olaolorun Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash Hi, I was designing a client site today when I decided to add a little flash to the site. I did and after that the XHTML page goes invalid because of the embed code in the page. I know that some other browsers like Firefox might not work without the embed code, so please is there a way to make the page valid again and also to make sure that others who use non-IE can see the flash... This is the code: http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,42,0"; id="movie" width="700" height="180"> http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer";> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash
Hello; Most of that junk is not needed; Works in all browsers; if you want to be section 508 (and higher) compliant, make sure you create a gif/jpg with static content to make it look like this: and make text links in a separate client side image map if needed HTH ~Veine At 02:37 PM 7/29/2004 -0400, you wrote: This is the code: codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,42,0"; id="movie" width="700" height="180"> http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer";> Veine K Vikberg http://www.vikberg.net Professional Web Guru
[WSG] Valid XHTML and Flash
Hi, I was designing a client site today when I decided to add a little flash to the site. I did and after that the XHTML page goes invalid because of the embed code in the page. I know that some other browsers like Firefox might not work without the embed code, so please is there a way to make the page valid again and also to make sure that others who use non-IE can see the flash... This is the code: http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,42,0"; id="movie" width="700" height="180"> http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer";> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] My first message and my first step
Hello, im making a site with 's mode. The first step is a site with basic thinks as logo, top navegation, content and right menu. The problem is the right menu look more right in Mozilla Firefox, in IE look good. The test page is in http://diego.igloo.cl/test/ The CSS cascade is in the same page. Traduction: todo = all pagina = page sombra = shadow (this show in Mozilla only) navegacion-top = top navegation lado_izquierdo = left side lado_derecho = right side The text: CONTENIDO = content MENU = menu If someone can help me, I will be very thanked. My sincere respects -- Diego Diaz Plaza mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] "Quedamos los que puedan sonreir, en medio de la muerte, en plena luz..." * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] more title discussions
There is an interesting discussion about title tags on astirisk today. http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/ Dave S. had the following comment _ Dave S. said: It goes like this: Alt text: "Fruit still life" Title text: "Pears, apples, and bananas in a dish, lit from the top right with a soft focus." Longdesc: "Three pears, two apples, and a bunch of bananas resting within a round dish. A russet velvet sheet fills the background, while the surface the dish sits on is covered with a lace tablecloth. The scene is lit from the top right, though the flash shines off the apples from the middle left. The focus is soft and the overall tone is dim. This scene was shot for 'Martha Stewart Living', December 2002." Though browser support of longdesc still has a long way to go, the idea is this: Alt text is purely a short placeholder for the image if it doesn't load; it should never be displayed otherwise (not even on mouse hover.) Title text is meant for a longer description of the image, which may be displayed in other ways (including hovers). Longdesc is meant for an extended description of the photograph including as many details as the author wishes to publish. All are meant to be assistive, but they're not only for screenreader use; Lynx, for example, makes use of Alt text because it simply doesn't load images. Posted on July 28, 2004 03:59 PM --- My question is: I'm using some titles on the labels of my fieldsets, after a previous discussion, I'm second guessing that concept. Can we put a longdesc on a label? I want to avoid using divs that are hidden, popping up additional windows, or cluttering up the screen with text that most people will not need to read. If I convert the titles to longdesc, which in some cases is more appropriate, would that be valid? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] access keys and tab index
I'm glad to see my question about access keys and tab index has garnered some serious discusstion. As a result. I'm going to implement a small set of access keys targeted to a particular subset of our audience that could use them. I'm going to use 1, 2, and 3 for the three most important pages that they go to and I will skip the others that might be used by the general population. The particular audience that I am talking about are travel agents and they even have their own section of the web site for their particular needs, so I feel I can afford to set aside these three keys for their use. Thank you for your thoughtful information. Ted Drake CSA Travel Protection www.csatravelprotection (the current site is horribly non-standard, hopefully the new one will launch soon) -Original Message- From: Geoff Deering [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] access keys and tab index If find yourself in the accesskey bog, and you are trying to make your site WAI-AAA compliant, I would do what the W3C did back in 1999 on the WAI home page (http://www.w3.org/WAI/). They had a WAI-AAA logo on their main page, but with all the links, the only accesskey was a hidden "c" to access the Contents menu. So if they are setting the example, then just put an accesskey to "Skip navigation" or whatever, then that seems good enough to meet this compliance check. I know it is not promoting best of practice by our standards, but that was the W3C WAI site back then, setting the example, so why not use something simple like this if you are doing your best in all the other compliance checks. I say this because those who are making this much of an effort are making a HUGE effort to make their pages as accessible as possible. My point with Accessibility and Standards is always the ROI, and people on this list, I feel, understand that. But to be frank, the ROI (currently) in accesskeys, has little ROI for the developer and user, except maybe for forms, and used sparingly. I do expect others to maybe do it better or smarter, because there is always someone showing the way on how to do these things better. Because they have become such an issue over the last year or so, and this problem has been given more attention, maybe they will evolve in a less muddle way. Geoff > -Original Message- > From: Laura Carlson > Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 6:24 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [WSG] access keys and tab index > > > > For those of you that have put together a chart of access keys > > for your sitewide navigation, do you have any good suggestions? > > From what I have gathered best practice is that IF accesskeys are used: > > - Always supply a legend that defines the accesskeys. > - Make sure this legend is on or available from every page on the > site...perhaps in an accessibility statement. > - Supply title attributes on any accesskeys used. > - Keep the number of accesskeys to a minimum. > > I agree with Geoff. Because of the many conflicts, defining accesskeys > seem to be a waste of time unless you are designing for a controlled > environment such as an intranet. > > In Joe Clark's Book, "Building Accessible Websites", New Riders > Publishing, 2002, he suggests that there are at least 36 characters > that can be used for accesskey attribute. > > However, as pointed out previously, John Foliot and Derek > Featherstone's unofficial survey/research concluded that there really > were no useful access keys not already reserved by some application or > other. When you take internationalization issues into account, it > becomes pretty much of a hopeless cause. > > For more details from John Foliot and Derek Featherstone's study visit: > > - Accesskeys and Reserved Keystroke Combinations > http://www.wats.ca/resources/accesskeysandkeystrokes/38 > > - Using Accesskeys - Is it worth it? > http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeys/19 > > - More reasons why we don't use accesskeys > http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyconflicts/37 > > Also: > > - I Do Not Use Accesskeys by Dave Shea. > > http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2003/12/29/i_do_not_use/index.php > > Laura > ___ > Laura L. Carlson > Information Technology Systems and Services > University of Minnesota Duluth > Duluth, MN 55812-3009 > http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/ > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * **
Re: [WSG] nested lists as menus...
Hi, Scott I think one of the following liks shoul put you back on track ! http://www.alistapart.com/articles/horizdropdowns/ or http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/ Browse the site, for it has other variants and variations that may be usefull to you this time ! Hope it helps :) Scott Reston wrote: i'm having some difficulty styling nested lists for use as a menu. I'd like s in the top-level list to display horizontally, with the nested lists displayed below their parent. for instance top level top level sub sub sub sub i've got a simplified demo up at: http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html i can get this to work by floating the list items left, but floated elements should have a width and i won't know the contents of the menu (someone else makes edits) so that i can set a width. i don't want to set widths as a percentage since i want the spacing to be the same between each element. The working, but non-spec version is at the top of this page: http://www.capstrat.com/cs/ can anyone give me a hand with this? Scott Reston Director, Web Development Capstrat 919/882.1966 v 919/834.7959 f 1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102 Raleigh, NC 27607 www.capstrat.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
Very true. And I do think tables would be great to use here - although I dont like how they are sooo fiddly. and i know had probelms with the divs :S still its all working now! I could replicate and screenshot that error i mentioned earlier in FireFox, although its probably just FF and not my code... Here is a screenshot: see the little WHITE cut out about 1/4 the way down the image...? Mike Foskett wrote: Here's a simple rule: "If it looks like a heading, table or list, then, most probably, it should be coded as such." - Fosketts rule 2. Hope that helps. mike 2k:)2 -Original Message- From: Dan Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 July 2004 15:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help I'd use a table for the main data table if I were you...it's tabular data. Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I think this has something to do with the floats. but in IE6. when i load this page, the text doesn't appear http://img.neester.com/image_index it also has a weird bug in FIREFOX where the these little blocks come in on the sides... what do you think would be the best solution? actually use tables? i think i might. any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated! thanks! *- chris stratford* <>
RE: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
Here's a simple rule: "If it looks like a heading, table or list, then, most probably, it should be coded as such." - Fosketts rule 2. Hope that helps. mike 2k:)2 -Original Message- From: Dan Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 July 2004 15:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help I'd use a table for the main data table if I were you...it's tabular data. Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I think this has something to do with the floats. > but in IE6. > > when i load this page, the text doesn't appear > http://img.neester.com/image_index > > it also has a weird bug in FIREFOX where the these little blocks come > in > on the sides... > > what do you think would be the best solution? > actually use tables? > > i think i might. > > any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated! > thanks! > > *- chris stratford* > -- Dan Webb Web Developer and Internet Consultant www.danwebb.net 07957 234544 39 Roseberry Gardens, London, N8 8SH * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
I'd use a table for the main data table if I were you...it's tabular data. Quoting Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I think this has something to do with the floats. > but in IE6. > > when i load this page, the text doesn't appear > http://img.neester.com/image_index > > it also has a weird bug in FIREFOX where the these little blocks come in > on the sides... > > what do you think would be the best solution? > actually use tables? > > i think i might. > > any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated! > thanks! > > *- chris stratford* > -- Dan Webb Web Developer and Internet Consultant www.danwebb.net 07957 234544 39 Roseberry Gardens, London, N8 8SH * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
Ahhh thanks heaps! If i knew what they called the bug i could of looked it up myself :S Sorry about that! Im running 0.9.2 and its weird. occasionally when i load that list. i get two little green bars... i cant replicate it at the moment - maybe it "fixed itself" thanks a lot mate! - Chris Stratford Chatham, Will wrote: what do you think would be the best solution? actually use tables? i think i might. Hang on there, fella. Don't be so hasty. Looks like you may be experiencing the IE Peekaboo bug, as described (and solved) here: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html It's a simple fix. The 'Holly Hack' (http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/hollyhack.html) should fix you right up. As for Firefox, I checked it out on both my Mac and PC (FF 0.9.2), and everything looked fine. What version of Firefox are you running? Will Chatham oOo www.willchatham.com --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] nested lists as menus...
i'm having some difficulty styling nested lists for use as a menu. I'd like s in the top-level list to display horizontally, with the nested lists displayed below their parent. for instance top level top level sub sub sub sub i've got a simplified demo up at: http://www.capstrat.com/menu.html i can get this to work by floating the list items left, but floated elements should have a width and i won't know the contents of the menu (someone else makes edits) so that i can set a width. i don't want to set widths as a percentage since i want the spacing to be the same between each element. The working, but non-spec version is at the top of this page: http://www.capstrat.com/cs/ can anyone give me a hand with this? Scott Reston Director, Web Development Capstrat 919/882.1966 v 919/834.7959 f 1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102 Raleigh, NC 27607 www.capstrat.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
>what do you think would be the best solution? actually use tables? >i think i might. Hang on there, fella. Don't be so hasty. Looks like you may be experiencing the IE Peekaboo bug, as described (and solved) here: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html It's a simple fix. The 'Holly Hack' (http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/hollyhack.html) should fix you right up. As for Firefox, I checked it out on both my Mac and PC (FF 0.9.2), and everything looked fine. What version of Firefox are you running? Will Chatham oOo www.willchatham.com --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Weird issue With IE6... Need Help
I think this has something to do with the floats. but in IE6. when i load this page, the text doesn't appear http://img.neester.com/image_index it also has a weird bug in FIREFOX where the these little blocks come in on the sides... what do you think would be the best solution? actually use tables? i think i might. any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated! thanks! - chris stratford
Re: Thread closed Re: [WSG] Search Tool
Lea de Groot wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:29:51 +, amer amer wrote: I am a beginner in HTML and CSS, I need to include a Search Tool (by entering a keyword to search inside my website) in my new website, does anyone help me in that? Amer, Thats not an on-topic post for this forum. Please restrict your questions to Web Standards issues. A good place to search for answers to many off topic questions is http://webmasterworld.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] divs and copying their content
Hmmm... interesting. > This looks like a possible soultion: > http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20020902/121759.html I don't think this is an acceptable solution at all... putting IE in quirks mode causes all sorts of side-effects - keyword font size for example will go all huge, and it will use the IE5 box model... yuck. > another page about it here: > http://blog.tom.me.uk/2003/07/23/boie6selecta.php This looks interesting... if it works in an external file, I think I'll add this to my box of standard tricks. Good one! K. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Submenu bug in FireFox...
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:44 , Mordechai Peller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>ul {float : left;} means ALL UL's are floated left, including the nested
>ul. The nested ul is floated in it's parent li. The solution:
>
>ul ul {float : none;}
Thank you thats the bit i missed!! Yeah i was thinking of doing it via JavaScript,
but for now im just keeping it as taking you to the "Project Intro" first aswell
as reveling the menu.
As this is internal only it dont matter too much bout how user's interface with it!
but thanks for the heads up!
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
Adam Hennessy wrote: Isn't it amusing that developers using web standards have to support the browsers. In an ideal world it would be the other way around It does "sound" backwards, however I disagree with the "ideal world" part because I think it make logical sense. It's the standard backwards compatibility issue. (Sorry, but pun intended.) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Submenu bug in FireFox...
Mark Harwood wrote:
Right, im playing with an "Elastic" Menu system built apon Nested &'s
Now i know this would be frowned apon probelry! But im open to a better way in
doing it?
Semantically, a nested ul is correct.
Anyway, back to my bug! On FireFox when you click on the Nav and it opens the
SubNav it Throws the Parents
ul {float : left;} means ALL UL's are floated left, including the nested
ul. The nested ul is floated in it's parent li. The solution:
ul ul {float : none;}
Items out to the side! instead of dropping them down like it does in IE!
Sorry, but this may come as a surprise: IE is getting it wrong.
Now as im doing this in my new "Every thing in EM's" mode im finding it a little
tricky to work out!
I find initially setting the body's font size to a percent, and then use
em's. For everything else, it's either percent, em's, or px's (that's my
usual order of preference).
Here's a way using JavaScript which works well. If JS is disabled it
will still work by a trip to the server.
.closed ul {display : none;}
function clicked(elem) {
if (elem.parentNode.className == "closed") {
elem.parentNode.className = "open";
} else{
elem.parentNode.className = "closed";
}
return false;
}
link1
sub1.1
sub1.2
link2
sub2.1
sub2.2
If JS is disabled, the links with the onclick work and it's up to the
server to set what's "open" and what's "closed". It's better to add the
onclick's via external JS to fully separate behavior and presentation.
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Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
> we should all be looking at supporting them all! Isn't it amusing that developers using web standards have to support the browsers. In an ideal world it would be the other way around. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that >>makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? >> >> A good developer should have all browser installed which everone he uses as his default is down to his personal prefrence neither give you an advantage over the other, as we should all be looking at supporting them all! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? To address the last question first, Opera happens to be a good choice as well, though I think Firefox is better. The two main reasons are the extensions and the engine. Most of the reliant extensions have already been mentioned, but since there might be others of interest, as well as new additions, I advise you to browse the list every so often. As useful as the extensions are (use them once and you'll wonder how you ever got by without them), it's the Gecko rendering engine which really makes Firefox shine. From my experience, the Gecko engine is the best, most accurate, most advanced around. Since it's been observed time and time again that the best way to code CSS is to start with the correct implementation first, and then correct for the bugs, by using Firefox first you're most likely to end up with a true rendering according to specs. AFAIK, there are only two known bugs in the engine, one of which (the rounding error) is more accurately termed a glitch than a bug. And the other (opposing floats) is a very rare situation. As relatively bug free Opera is compared to IE, it still has more than Gecko. A parting note about development in IE. While initial development is better not done in IE, there comes a point where it's necessary to work with IE. When that time come, an absolute must it the Accessible Information Solutions - Web Accessibility Toolbar (http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/). It's almost like having the much acclaimed Web Developer's Toolbar for Firefox in IE. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Submenu bug in FireFox...
Right, im playing with an "Elastic" Menu system built apon Nested &'s Now i know this would be frowned apon probelry! But im open to a better way in doing it? Anyway, back to my bug! On FireFox when you click on the Nav and it opens the SubNav it Throws the Parents Items out to the side! instead of dropping them down like it does in IE! Now as im doing this in my new "Every thing in EM's" mode im finding it a little tricky to work out! so if you could have a gandar at http://www.southtyneside.info/project_area/sharelearnimprove/old/layouttest.asp and give us a hand at whats going wrong! Also do you like the way it looks (in IE at least) shud be able to totaly Increase and Decrease (by the time i finish!) it to any size! Many Thanks Mark Harwood www.phunky.co.uk/2004/ *Currenly looking for Employment!* * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] 4-column layout
Miles Tillinger wrote: I've been able to find a few 4-column CSS layouts but they're all either 4x fixed divs or 4x fluid divs. Before I embark on my own voyage of discovery/pain, is there any examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed divs? I've thought a bit about it and I'm envisaging some major cross-browser issues, but then I'm dumber than most so maybe some clever person has come up with something? As Pete said, absolute positioning can make things easier. Barring that, it's sometimes easier to break the layout recursively into nested two column layouts. You may also want to check out: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] 4-column layout
Title: 4-column layout >> is there any examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed divs? can you have any of the columns position:absolute or do they all have to be floated? (maybe you have a requirement for a footer to run right across the bottom of the 4 cols etc?). just thinking it may be easier if the extreme left and/or right columns could be position:absolute... pete
Re: [WSG] Bottom Margin on IE/Mac
Lucian, You could try installing your faux columns inside a containing div rather than in the body. That way they would stretch according to the content, and you would not have to cover them up with a footer at the base of the browser window. -Hugh Todd I'm using Dan Cedarholm's faux column's technique, but I can't get the footer to sit at the bottom of the page, so the columns stick out a little when viewed on IE/Mac. The site address is http://navmedia.com/ . Any reasons for this? I've looked through the list of IE/Mac bugs but can't seem to find the appropriate one. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] 4-column layout
Title: 4-column layout I've been able to find a few 4-column CSS layouts but they're all either 4x fixed divs or 4x fluid divs. Before I embark on my own voyage of discovery/pain, is there any examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed divs? I've thought a bit about it and I'm envisaging some major cross-browser issues, but then I'm dumber than most so maybe some clever person has come up with something? Thanks in advance... Mt. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party.This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise.It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects.education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email.
