Re: [WSG] Adobe Installation Nightm Mares
Hi Marvin, Two years ago I was using the subscription service for the CS packages, and it all went terribly wonky. So I rang the help line - hopeless - used the supplied assistance email address - also hopeless - and then read with amusement that Adobe were in the process of improving their customer service. I would hope by now they managed to do that! But at the time I got results via the Get Satisfaction site. Here's the Adobe link; http://getsatisfaction.com/adobe/topics Shortly after posting I got answers and problem solved. Not the same issue you've encountered, but Get Satisfaction works as a public forum and another user may have an answer for you. Good luck Marv! Cheers, John Unsworth > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] which programming or web development tools which works well with jaws
Hey there Marvin, I understand software like JAWS and NVDA (http://www.nvda-project.org/) read out the entire screen activity of a PC (as opposed to FANGS which only reads inside Firefox and therefore only websites or at least browser based software) and as such like an inaccessible website that is not coded with screen readers (in this instance) in mind, then if JAWS or NVDA can't translate what's on the PC screen then the software is lacking. But I would of thought Windows with their own accessibility ambitions would by now of considered their development platforms, and for that matter Adobe as well. However I assume you wouldn't be asking this question if experience suggested otherwise! What I wonder though is do you really need these advanced software packages to do what you can achieve with a good text editor? And wouldn't a simpler tools be less likely to cause issues? Ian Lloyd in his Sitepoint Book "Build your own web site the right way using HTML & CSS" recommends NoteTab (www.notetab.com) for Windows users. It has a free lite version. There appear to be a number of other free development tools online for Windows users, but by now were discussing the merits of software and not web standards :) My other suggestion would be to write to the guys behind NVDA (or join the forum). They are blind computer developers and likely have some experience that could assist you. Hope this is helpful somehow and congrats on the study decision, Cheers John Unsworth On 18 August 2011 15:52, Peter Mount wrote: > You might want to look at Lynx as well. > > http://lynx.isc.org > > Peter Mount > Web Development for Business > Mobile: 0411 276602 > i...@petermount.com > http://www.petermount.com > > On 19/08/2011, at 7:53 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: > >> hi. >> well enrolling in a diploma in website development. >> and developing a website. >> now what web site development tools, and which programming tools which works >> best with Jaws? >> visual basic, visual web developer, c#, dream weaver, vs 2008, or 2010. >> which works best with jaws? >> marvin. >> ps: will take your more expertise in this area. >> >> >> *** >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org >> *** >> > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] major web site project
Sorry folks, quick correction here. Instead of 'education site for non-web geeks.' what I really meant was 'non-geek web users'. All the best, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] major web site project
Hey there Marvin, When you first posted for suggestions for your site I did think that the subject of the blind computer user was apt, but I was reluctant to suggest it as you may of been reluctant to follow this path, concerned you may get pigeonholed. But as you have now indeed settled on the subject here is my suggestion. Rather than a portal for web designers et al to services, information etc. might I suggest an education site for non-web geeks. There maybe site like this that exist, but most of the stuff I know of is either technical or hosted on web industry sites. Of course if I view information on the subject within that context it's not surprising. Rather what I was thinking was, describing and drawing upon your experience creating a site that illustrates to the lay person just what the experience of browsing the web without perfect eyesight is like. Now I accept that it's not likely the lay person will intentionally look for such a site or even stumble across it generally browsing. But for those of us in the WSG group trying to explain and convince website owners the merit of incorporating accessibility features and rather than referring to and citing those previously mentioned sites, to refer to a site that they understand is describing real experience... Such a site I would suggest could include recordings of sample passages read by your Windows Eyes software, and even a comparison of site; the good and the bad. One idea that came to mind might be to have a page that is completely dark, but as the user mouses over a kind of peek-a-boo magnify glass reveals the text underneath, attempting to depict what it would be like having to 'discover' the page bit by bit as opposed to a visual glance. Hope that is the sort of thing you were looking for and all the very best with the project. Kind regards, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] setting up visualf web developer with iis
Hey there Marvin, I'm sorry I can't help you at all with this, but if you will excuse me for the benefit of other users who may not of had the opportunity to 'meet' you in the WSG list... Just a quick reminder or heads up to members on the WSG list, Marvin is a young blind developer who as his email address might suggest is 'boldly going where others have not been' (apologies Marvin if I've mucked up the phrase, not quite the Star Trek boffin I gather you are :-) ) So whilst his question has nothing to do with the usual mailing list information, Marvin on these occasions has come to us as a sympathetic forum as presumably finding the information he needs might not of been as accessible as some of us take for granted. Marvin, if I've overstepped the line (or indeed anyone else on the list) one word and I'll pull my head in, but some past questions from Marvin have had to have this information explained. Cheers WSG'ers John Unsworth > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Horizontal Menu Bar Help Needed
Hi Emily, Firstly the problem you describe might be your browser. I'm using Safari on a Mac and the desired effect appears to occur, whether I use the back button or click Home again. So this might be the reason your not getting the expected effect. Secondly, the standards group I would imagine are collectively having kittens seeing all that table based layout rendered by Dreamweaver. Whilst there is often some debate, on the whole most people employ a list for navigation rather than a table, however I'm assuming the whole page is a table layout and thus whilst I would encourage you to reconsider, I'm not going to go into an entire rewrite. I would then suggest to you it's time to learn some CSS. Your Dreamweaver behaviours are embedded Javascript(s), added to which all your presentation information, such as width and height are inline to boot. What you want to strive for is plain simple HTML, with externally linked CSS and JS files. This approach is sometimes referred to as 'three layers'. That being Content (HTML), Presentation (CSS) and finally Behaviours (Javascript). Presuming this is not just a practice piece of work and the error your getting is just within your browser, I don't think there is a simple bit of 'code' that will fix this. Moving forward I can only suggest you change your methods in line with the sentiments of the standards group. Personally if your starting out I can't recommend Ian Lloyd's 'Build your website the right way, using HTML and CSS' from Sitepoint, and 'HTML Dog, The best-practice guide to XHTML & CSS' by Patrick Griffiths enough. All the best, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Site for Vision Impaired
Hi Daniel, It maybe has incorrectly become a by-word for accessibility, but web standards are certainly your first step to provide sites for vision or indeed other disability needs. > I was wondering if any of you have done any work on sites for the visually > impaired? I have never specifically done a site for an audience explicitly identified as visually impaired, I've has presumed that users of any site maybe impaired and worked from that premise. > What are the considerations I need to take into account with a project like > this? eg ability to change contrast, text size etc? Are there any good > resources or advice you could share with me? It is a considerable subject area and there are a vast array of tools and resources, but here are a few modest suggestions. The good people of Think Vitamin have made available all their tutorial videos for accessibility for free; http://membership.thinkvitamin.com/library/accessibility/?cid=106 Vision Australia has a number of very good resources and are focused on vision issues; http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/info.aspx?page=740 Formerly of Vision Australia was a gentleman called Steve Faulkner, he created the Web Accessibility Toolbar, and is now in the USA with the Paciello Group and they to have a number of useful tools and resources; http://www.paciellogroup.com/index.php > > It would be greatly appreciated. > The only other consideration I would encourage you to think about is the content. If your clients are visually impaired then whilst a pleasing design a good thing, not at the expense of the information your audience is after. Hope this is helpful, Cheers, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Job] Senior Freelance Web Designer | Melbourne
This is getting a bit out of hand people! But to bring the notion of standards back into the fray, I've met the people at 10Collective and if there was an understanding of good standards in the recruitment industry these people would be WCAG 2 compliant. Oh, and it is Julien, not Julia. Meanwhile, let's stop this thread hey? John Unsworth. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Video Accessibility Help
Hi Michael, Your first port of call might be the WCAG2 guidelines, found here; http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/#media-equiv I also did a quick search for "accessible online video best practice" and this link to a PDF from the US Department of Health and Human Services exactly on the topic of "Online Viral Video Requirements and Best Practices" might be useful to you. It is dated Jan 2010 and covers the departments use of YouTube (and other video providers) and importantly Section 508 compliance. A good deal of the document regards brand guidelines as much as technical requirements, but in that regards questions about dimension and file size and type might be useful knowledge. This was the PDF link; www.cdc.gov/socialmedia/Tools/guidelines/pdf/onlinevideo.pdf Accessibility advocate Joe Clark I recall became very interested in the question and quality of captioned video. >From my search above this resource of links from the Victorian Government in Australia might also be useful; http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/website-practice/online-video-content.html I'm not that knowledgeable about Flash, but to your questions I recall seeing a presentation from Adobe regards CS4 and that their Audio program, whose name escapes me, could extract Caption text and that in turn that file could be brought into Flash. However I thought it was an XML file. I also understood that using ActionScript you could program the import of the XML file, but the last time I used Flash was at school and it was Flash8 and given the presentation I mentioned it might be a tool built in?? Of course how this would be handled in HTML5 I'm less clear on:) Didn't really answer your questions directly, but I hope some of this is useful. Cheers, John Unsworth > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Lucien, Interestingly the Robert Hoekman Jr example I cited started originally as a paper form. In his write up when the form was first put up online before he came along it ran to page after page, resulting in people never completing it! In your example the first thing that strikes me, but this could be a can of worms (based on your observation about asking a non-English speaker to advise "What language?" when they might not be able to understand even that) is either links in the available languages to the same form in those languages, or at least to a page in the selected language with information about what to do next - even though that might mean calling a help line instead, or lastly the form begins with say language Flag Icons and if someone chooses anything other than English off to the alternate page or form. That action becomes your Yes or No scenario. There was a visitor from the W3C who spoke to the WSG in Melbourne some time ago now called Richard Ishida who is all about internationalisation on the web. More links; http://rishida.net/ Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 14:41, nedlud wrote: > Hmm. > I hadn't considered the wording of the actual question to be so important. > But I can sure see your point. > The full questions in the form is "Do you require an interpreter?" > This is followed by: "If so, what language?" > I am porting a paper based for onto the web, and the paper based version has > explicit check boxes for "yes" and "no". But it occurred to me that on the > web, I could reduce the two check boxes down to one. "Tick the box if you > require an interpreter." Then dynamically insert the "what language" > question if they answer yes. (Yes, an obvious problem with all this is that > the form is all written in English. I guess the client is assuming an > English speaker is helping the Non-English speaker with the form). > I often look for the simplest way to represent thing, an in this case, a > single check box can easily represent both the "yes" and "no" states > (checked or not checked). But is this the best UX? Are people more > comfortable with explicit yes/no choices? Even when it might be more verbose > than absolutely necessary? > Lucien. > > On 4 June 2010 13:29, John Unsworth wrote: >> >> Hi Lucien, >> >> The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the >> action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this >> might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. >> >> By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark >> up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what >> you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. >> >> However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more >> regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with >> webmail clients and the "Remember me" check box. >> >> So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No >> action or like the "Remember me" function a call to action with an >> Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be >> rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of "Do >> you..?" the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; >> "Remember me for 2 weeks" - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another >> example, rather than "Would you like to receive our email newsletter?" >> radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by "Uncheck if >> you would not like to receive our email newsletter." >> >> In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr >> book "Designing the Obvious" and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long >> Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No >> propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed >> by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a >> Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least >> here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; >> http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which >> contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his >> approach. >> >> But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - >> "Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme >> Insurance" = Radio Button Yes/No. >> Second iteration - "Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision >> coverage..with Acme Insurance" = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for &
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Hi Lucien, The first thing that occurs to me regarding the semantics of the action is what is the Yes/No proposition in regards to, and that this might provide a clearer notion as to what to do. By this what I mean is, in the first instance so far as semantic mark up is concerned it would appear that a radio button is exactly what you would use. Here it is a case of either on or off. Yes or no. However the first thing I thought of, and I suppose this is in more regards a UI/UX consideration is the design pattern we see with webmail clients and the "Remember me" check box. So returning to the first point, are you simply asking for a Yes/No action or like the "Remember me" function a call to action with an Option Yes or Option No result? In which case your question might be rephrased by improving the microcopy of your markup. Instead of "Do you..?" the semantics are improved by fixing the proposition, ie; "Remember me for 2 weeks" - tick on = Yes, un-ticked = No, or another example, rather than "Would you like to receive our email newsletter?" radio buttons Yes/No, checkbox pre-selected followed by "Uncheck if you would not like to receive our email newsletter." In addition to my thoughts I had a look into the Robert Hoekman Jr book "Designing the Obvious" and in Chapter 16 about Simplifying Long Forms he cites an example that begins with a series of Yes/No propositions that given further consideration can be better addressed by better directed questions and ultimately checkboxes. If you have a Safari Books Online account you can access this book, or at the least here is a link to his presentation at Web Directions in 2008; http://www.webdirections.org/resources/robert-hoekman-jr/ which contains links to his book on Amazon and an introduction to his approach. But I'll try and quickly summarise it for you. Original form starts - "Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance" = Radio Button Yes/No. Second iteration - "Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance" = Radio Button Yes, then checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - Radio Button No. Third iteration - Do you...have any Group Medical, Dental or Vision coverage..with Acme Insurance" = checkbox's for Medical, Dental, Vision - implied is if you don't check any, you would of selected No. So to sum up, before it's a question of which is the best markup to use, what is the actual end result of this action and can it be handled a better way? Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud wrote: > I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. > I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone > have any good UI/UX suggestions? > My three ideas were... > Two radio buttons for "yes" and "no"... > Do you...? > Yes > No > A single check box. A tick implies a "yes" answer while no tick implies > "no"... > Do you...? > > Or a selection list with a "yes" and a "no" answer... > Do you...? > > Yes > No > > Which is the preferred way? Or can you suggest a better way? > Lucien. > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Monospace font sizing
Hi all, I've no doubt some of you know this, and some of you have read the article, however in a turn of happy coincidence for myself as I was trying to puzzle out the answer as to why my Monospace font heading in Safari was not behaving as I thought it should, I happened to have Mr Eric Meyers blog open in another browser; http://meyerweb.com and therein was the answer; http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/12/fixed-monospace-sizing To quickly summarise the article, firstly I didn't actually know (or hadn't remembered) that whilst browsers default font size to 16px, monospace fonts are sized at 13px. Additionally, sized in em's not all browsers will transfer a monospace styled element it's parent font size, and finally even after specifying the font family Safari still won't confer the desired sizing. As it transpires the work around is in the font-stack. Oddly by setting the font-stack with 'serif' (or even sans-serif I presume) as the final font family Safari finally plays ball, eg; (font-family: "Corier Neu", monospace, serif; font-size: 1em;) - snippet taken from Mr Meyers' article - http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/12/fixed-monospace-sizing/ As this nearly became a question to the group and only lucky chance provided the answer in minutes, and the information was previously unknown to me, I thought I'd share especially to those creating novel font stacks. Cheers, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] NVDA-screen reader software for windows
Hello all, Last night on the TV here in Australia, on the national broadcaster the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), on a program called "The New Inventors" took time out from their usual competition style format to highlight inventions concerned with Access and Ability. Included amongst the inventions was Screen Reader software for Windows, that was not only programmed by two blind computer users, is licensed open source and thus freely available. It is called NVDA. Personally I hadn't heard of this software before, so please excuse me if this is old to some of you, but in general I thought this maybe of interest to the group. Amongst it's many features highlighted by the program was it's portability - a user is able to load the software onto a USB stick to take to any other computer, and an intriguing audio implementation to signify the cursors position on the page - high pitches for top of the page, descending to lower pitches at the bottom of the page, and stereo panning to indicate left and right of the screen. The ABC page for this show is at this link; http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/specials/ The program was titled "Access and Ability" and there appear to be video of the segments, and I assume these are internationally available. The home page for the NVDA software where it can be downloaded is; http://www.nvda-project.org/ And the parent site for this project is at; http://www.nvaccess.org/ I hope this will be of interest to the group, and I apologise in advance if people think otherwise. Cheers, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 bug?
Hi Christian, You will find some info about this on the Sitepoint HTML reference pages, http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/a/href , read down that page and there is some information about requiring a href reference in the anchor link for IE. Also as I understand it you don't really need id= and name=, use one or the other - they complete the same purpose, although I'm just reading this information from a book and haven't checked the specification per se. Cheers, John Unsworth On 4 March 2010 12:33, wrote: > Hi all, > > I have run in to what seems to be an IE8 bug - IE8 doesn't respond to > internal links (as in, same page links) on a demo site I'm working onyet > IE6 and IE7 do! > > eg. > > > blah blah blah > blah blah blah > > back to top > > I tried Googling and looking back through old posts from WSG but can't find > anything > > Has anyone come across this issue before? (and better yet, come across a > fix??) > > Regards, > > Christian Fagan > Fagan Design > fagandesign.com.au > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] character codes and accessibility
Hi Luc, I might suggest that 'double right arrow' is purely presentational and not 'semantically' relevant, so it's not such a good idea to muddy up the HTML with extraneous code. If you want to avoid using a background image you could write your CSS in a 'progressive enhancement' fashion by using the :after property on the list items. Of course browsers that don't understand that will not display the arrows. As regards the question what does a screen reader do? I'm afraid I've no idea. I think this is best served with the image. One image in the CSS as opposed to multiple character codes in the HTML. Regards, John Unsworth 2009/11/15 Luc : > Good evening list, > > When you use a character code, e.g. » as a list marker > (hardcoded in the li), how is that interpreted by a speech browser? > Does the user hear those characters as they appear or are they > converted into 'double right arrow'? > > Might be a stupid question but it would prevent using background > images > > -- > Regards, > Luc > _ > > Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with > Windows XP (build 2600), version > 5.1 Service Pack 3 and > using the best browser: Opera. > > Pussy Galore: "My name is Pussy Galore." - James Bond: "I must be > dreaming." - Bond meets Pussy Galore - Goldfinger (film 1964) > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] using images for my website and accessibility
Hi Marvin, Um, sorry but I'm a bit confused. Have you already found these images and now you need to contact the owner, or are you looking for images of fruit and vegetables that you can use legally? If what your saying is that you've got these images, but don't know where they are from, and your searching for banana.jpg - well the mind boggles! I would assume you'd find loads and then it's a bit like a pin in a haystack! Let alone trying to find img_0537.jpg? I would suggest you find some images on Flickr and set your search options for open Creative Commons licensed images. You set your options in the Advanced Search panel; for example http://www.flickr.com/search/advanced/?q=mushroom I appreciate with your being blind you will be heavily reliant on the alt attribute, or the photo meta tags, but at least the images have been released for legal use. I've usually been fortunate to either be able to create my own images, or have them supplied to me and then proceeded with the understanding that the client has already cleared there use. Thus far no problems. Hope this might help. John Unsworth. 2009/7/14 Marvin Hunkin : > hi. > tried looking for these images for a web project. > and needs the url, so i can contact the owner to get permission to use these > images. > will paste the names below. > tried looking on google, altavista, yahoo, etc. > but no luck. > cheers Marvin. > ps:have these images on my hard disk, but need to get permission to use > these. > > the images i am looking for are: > > banana.jpg > cherry.jpg > image002.gifimage002.gif > img_0537.jpg > logo_01.gif > mango.png > Mushrooms.jpg > pineapple.jpg > rockmelon_large.jpg > > E-Mail: startrekc...@gmail.com > Msn: startrekc...@msn.com > Skype: startrekcafe > Visit my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/ > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Website Creation Documentation Standards
Hi Lorrie, When I read your email, it seemed to me you were referring to what I've read in web design books called 'deliverables'. A concept I think inherited from print and graphic design. For instance I recently bought a copy of Elliot Jay Stocks "Sexy Web Design" from Sitepoint ( http://www.sitepoint.com/books/ ) and last chapter speaks of this. However, beyond being called a style guide, I don't discern a "common set of rules" such that there exists software to assist you explicitly with a style guide. Another Sitepoint book from a few years back by Shirley Kaiser "Deliver First Class Web Sites" ( http://www.sitepoint.com/books/checklists1/?SID=3598de07047196325426cba641ee236c ) in the third chapter refers to a technique called "content inventory" which whilst different to a style guide, could class as a handover document. She refers to an excellent article by Jeffrey Veen on the subject which might assist - http://www.adaptivepath.com/ideas/essays/archives/40.php Finally in somewhat the same vein as Franks answer and using a similar technique, a presentation from a Natalie Downe of Clearleft in England on Maintainable CSS. At the end of the presentation she appears to create a HTML document that allows any future front end developer to quickly understand the styles and patterns in a technical sense. So whilst useful for a developer, probably of little consequence to a website owner. See the presentation here - http://natbat.net/ In the end, presuming I was in the ball park when I assumed you meant deliverables, as best as I can tell there is only techniques that work for you, rather than a standard such that the W3C would endorse. Hope some of this is helpful. John Unsworth >>> List, >>> >>> I am a web designer as a hobby and have run into a situation where >>> I am not sure where to search. Does a standard exist for the >>> creation of web site creation documentation? By this I mean >>> documentation that would/might be turned over to the end user: >>> >>> 1. to allow the end user to mange the site himself >>> 2. to document the project and for future reference >>> >>> Having created a few sites I have been trying on my own to >>> determine what information should be documented and in what format >>> and by what specs. I hope this makes sense. If they do exist, >>> would someone point me to them and some examples as well as any >>> software, open source if possible, that exists. If not, are there >>> any industry general practices that I can read? >>> >>> One last question, if such standard exist are they working with >>> the W3C community and where might that info be, please? >>> >>> Lorrie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Transcripts for Audio and Video
Hi Jennie, Granted it was at the product launch of CS4 for Adobe, but one of the items they promoted was a feature in their sound program "Soundbooth" that did just this. It certainly appeared convincing, but as I say, it was a promotion night! There didn't seem to be any suggestion that it couldn't handle multiple voices, but then again, they didn't explicitly say that it could. As a tool, it might provide some heavy lifting when doing it the "old fashioned way" and allow you to tidy up the results. Also as I understood it, this feature previously existed elsewhere, and that Adobe had aquired it. Later I spoke with a guy who worked for the Australian Broadcasting Service, and he implied that the method you described, the "old fashioned way", was previously all they had. For video work I might suggest you might find good info at "Creative Cow"; http://forums.creativecow.net/ or even the Adobe website. Not surprisingly a quick google search provides some info, and this link looked informed. http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Making_Video_Accessible Not exactly your question answered, but hope it might of helped. Cheers, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Question about presenting numeric percentages and accessibility.
Hi all, Just a quick question. I'm writing up a website for a simple brochure site, and the copy I'm provided with refers to "something 1/3 of total" or "colour 2/3 of natural" and so on. And it just occured to me, would Number Slash Number (ie; 1/2) cause any issue in regards accessibility, be it screen readers or poor reading or math skills (the correct term for this alludes me for the moment, I'm thinking dyslexia, but not sure that correctly accounts for all potential users). As such I wondered if the tag might be appropriate, or if anyone has a better, more suitable sugestion? Many thanks, John Unsworth. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Incorporating Terms and Cons in signup page
Hi WSG, I'm wondering about the best method to incorporate in a signup form a Terms and Conditions agreement, which being so long will be bought to the page externally. Or if it's thought best, maybe not! On a previous occasion I went forward using the tag. The advantage to my mind is that, my document (that may change in future) is separate to the form and for those who don't have a browser capable of using the tag, can see alternative text to link to the separately hosted T&C page. But it's been put to me at work, there might be a way to house the document in a div, give the div a fixed size and make it scrollable. Alternatively I could use a textarea element, although I'm given to understand it would need to be outside the so as not include it in the 'Signup' event when the submit button is clicked. However to satisfy the designer, who follows that the convention is that the form is visually seen before the last submit button, I'd use CSS to position it - but that doesn't sound very semantic to me? Putting it on another page, that you would link to, read, then return to the form to agree to has been rejected for the sanctity of the concept of a single page signup document. I hope I've been clear, and I guess I'm interested in anything similar to this in best practice, accessibility and standards. Cheers for just being there folks, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Fwd: [WSG] Position and peace of mind
-- Forwarded message -- From: John Unsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 4 Sep 2008 14:05 Subject: Re: [WSG] Position and peace of mind To: Kepler Gelotte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 04/09/2008, Kepler Gelotte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John, > > It would really help when you have a specific issue like this to post a url > where people could see your site. Most hosting companies allow you to create > subdomains so you could put the web site on your host as > http://problemsite.mydomain.com/ > > Best regards, > > > Kepler Gelotte > Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. > 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 > www.neighborwebmaster.com > phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 Thanks for replying Kepler, I've arranged to put the two versions up for viewing. The relatively positioned 's is at; http://distributeit.com.au/wsg/relative-index.html and the absolutes are here; http://distributeit.com.au/wsg/absolute-index.html The issue with the "More Info" buttons in Opera disapears when I removed the absolute position call in the CSS...but so do the images. And I'd like to advise that the call in the head of the HTML for the CSS is taken from Jon Hicks' presentation "A Day in Deployment", I thought it was a good method although I am aware that the Yahoo front end optimisation people advise that the @import rule is not perfect. For anyone not aware of the Jon Hicks presentation, you'll find it here; http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/design-to-deployment Many thanks John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Position and peace of mind
Hello WSG'ers, I'm experiencing some frustrations with a current project and could use some experienced opinions. Warning though, I might get a bit wordy as it's going to be a multi-part question, as I'd like feedback about my chosen process. Also I would class myself advanced beginner, as I only been in web dev for about a year. OK, it's a new homepage for my employer. It's basically a series of rectangular 's 980px wide (wrapper is 1000px with 10px padding right and left) but varying heights, down the page, from top to bottom appears as; 1. Header 2. Navigation 3. Banner Photo 4. Five even sized boxes with current product promotions floated in their div left to appear horizontal across page 5. Two (2/3 page and 1/3 page) boxes for general introduction and client login (again horizontal) 6. Three even boxes for everyday products and customer contact (ditto the horizontal) 7. and final footer with copyright notice and repeated links My problem has arisen because I decided that I should write the markup so that steps 4 and 5 occur the other way around. So as a percieved accessibility benefit (even though I've included a 'skip to content' link at the top of the page) a screen reader would not have to skip through the promotions first, but read the introduction content, then the products. Concurrent to this I've attempted to write the CSS up as an elastic layout in em's should a user need to resize the page. I've also used the Eric Meyer reset, and set body font size to 1em (16px) and line height to 1.3em. I broadly understand the in and out's of em's, but am novice at implementing it. The problem I initially encountered was that when I used relative positioning for steps 4 and 5, to visually re-position them the margins between 4,5 and 6 varied across browsers. I was able to live with that, but the graphic designer of the site couldn't. This variation in margins also occured when trying to evenly space the five boxes of step 4 across the page and achieve alignment left and right. I tried %'s instead of em's, and for testing purposes without changing the rest of the layout, used pixels, but it never quite went flush to the edges. Then I tried absolute positioning with all the div's below the banner photo, and at least on the mac, across Safari 2, FF3, Opera 9.5, and Camino 1.6.3 (the five boxes were not entirely solved, but the layout was evenly spaced) my problems appeared to be solved. But then I tried it on a PC with IE7 and steps 4 and 5 were just plain gone??? I've also encountered another quirk that just appear in Opera when I tried to use image replacement for some links as buttons, that's causing the page to scroll horizontally, but given our likely audience I think even the designer might be able to live with that. So my questions to the group are; Was the decision to write the markup in the order I did correct or pedantic? Because if I didn't then I wouldn't have the layout issues I'm having I'd guess. Was it a mistake to try and create an elastic layout in em's and expect the entire interface to expand? In this case might it be better to use pixel for width's but em's for font and % for height and allow the boxes to expand with the text? Or should I just stick to pixel's all round. Is there a 'golden rule' about repositioning sections of markup out of the order they're written, and why was there variation with the margins across apparently very well behaved browsers? Finally why did the absolute position boxes just vanish in the IE7? I realise this might be too vauge a question, but I'm not even quite sure what my search terms might be trying to find the answer to this via Google. Generally the whole IE thing I ignore until required. Wow! I didn't intend to take so long, but would appreciate feedback even if it's just on one point. Sincerly, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes
> Paul Bennett wrote: > > > Hi Kevin, > > > > It's not clear what you're trying to achieve. Can you give us some more > information? > > > > Paul > > > Christian Snodgrass wrote: > > > > I think he's essentially talking about a CSS reset file, specific to input, > to neutralize all of the browser differences. > > I'm not sure of the specific elements, but just about any CSS reset should > handle it. This is the one I prefer: > http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/ > > Yahoo also has it's own, but it's a lot bigger and I think somewhat of an > overkill. > > -- > Christian Snodgrass > Azure Ronin Web Design > http://www.arwebdesign.net > Phone: 859.816.7955 > > Having just been working on a series of pages consisting predominately of form elements, including inputs fields/boxes etc, and also using the Eric Meyer reset, it's my experience thus far that the reset does not neutralize all the browser differences. Opera for one seems to treat the sizing of the input boxes differently to Firefox and Safari. Added to that you can differing results depending on the system of measurement you use, ie: em's vs pixel vs percentage, although I'm inclined now to stick to percentage, ensuring the containing div or fieldset is sized consistently across browsers with either em's or px's. I'm not informed or smart enough to know exactly why this is, but suspect that as the browser is applying the OS input elements, in the process it is creating dimensions that go beyond padding and margin. Otherwise the reset would work? Slightly off topic, but still with the Eric Meyer reset, I found that when it declares a universal - background: transparent; - it disabled Safari and IE7 from applying a class to the in a table when I tried to Zebra stripe the table rows. I removed it (the univeral reset), and at least in Safari (not yet tested on IE7) it was fixed. Firefox, Opera and Camino all rendered the stripes as expected. Can anyone possibly explain that? Cheers people, John Unsworth. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes
Was just walking back from work when it occurred to me I should of specified that I was referring to Safari 2.1, sadly I'm stuck on a Hackintosh so no opportunity to run Safari 3. John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Form (layout/accessibiity)
Shaun,
Somewhat new subscriber to the list, first time respondent...
It's a bit late of night, but if I read this right, if this section
(as it is a form, right?) is wrapped in a you can then hide
both labels and use legend to identify that's it's postcode. I'm
relatively new in this web malarky, but have been working on a lot of
form pages for a web app, and think are as good
as, and as easy to work with as 's. So if your carries
your id, then you can target your form elements. So to take your
snippet..
Postcode
Postcode:second part of postcode:name="PostCode2" maxlength="4" />
Then style the font etc of the , and hide the label the same
as your CSS, and size the input likewise.
Example - #postcode input { width: 2em;} #postcode label { position:
absolute; left: -px;}
Alternatively, if you can't or won't use then you might use
a Definition List. The term postcode is the , then just add input
elements in the and use title to explain the input use for screen
readers.
To all the more experienced members, please step forward to clarify or
correct my advice.
Your faithfully,
I've got no signature set up,
John Unsworth,
New Web Designing Bloke.
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 6:49 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have created a form which acts as a interface to a system outside of my
> control. This takes UK postcode in two parts (postcode1 - the initial part
> e.g. ng1 and postcode2 the later part e.g.7sw)
>
> Is it appropriate that I have one label for two inputs or does anyone
> know of a surefire way to hide second label I have tried this but it does not
> seem cross browser
>
> html snippet
> Postcode: id="PostCode1" name="PostCode1" maxlength="4" /> class="hide">second part of postcode: type="text" id="PostCode2" name="PostCode2" maxlength="4" />
>
>
> css selectors relating to this
> #su_housing input.postcode
>{
>width:2em;
>}
>
> #su_housing label.hide
>{
>position:absolute;
>left:;
>font-size:0;
>color:#fff;
>
>}
>
> Would appreciate anyones thoughts help
>
> Many Thanks
> Shaun
>
>
>
>
> ***
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>
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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Assuming it's only a "soundtrack" and doesn't require any controlling, ie: play, pause, volume, etc. then a tiny .swf containing the music track (again set to loop, without control) could sit fairly unobtrusive, and marked up, at the bottom of your HTML. However as has been pointed out, without that control, he could do his reputation more damage than good. A better approach if it were my client would be to persuade them that plugging music (oh so subjective!) into the site for some spurious benefit is better abandoned for a clean standards page. Especially for a nightclub, a good visual website will stay relevant much longer than a "hot" soundtrack. It's not an area I'm well informed in, but others might be able to answer this, but is it possible to pull in an API from say Last.fm and let users chose their own soundtrack? On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 1:04 PM, jenni provenzano-sherwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I realize this is wsg, but why not do the whole site in flash, how many > pages could it be! > or at least do the frameset banner in flash. > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:20 AM > Subject: WSG Digest > > > * > WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST > * > > > From: John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:26:32 +1100 > Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction > > I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good > example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. > > > On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: > > > hi, > > Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. > > The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. > > What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing > > music track? > > I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want > > some feedback of the dangers of this. > > > > -thanks in advance > > kev > > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > > best wishes, > > John Hancock > Identity > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > t: +61 2 8012 2967 > f: +61 2 9799 6135 > > > > > > > > * > From: "Faul, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:26:52 -0400 > Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest > > I will be out of the office on Monday March 17. If you require immediate > assistance, please contact Chris Wightman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > and/or 613-580-2424 ext 25123. Thank you. > > > This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any > distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it > contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. > If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the > telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete > this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. > > Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de > la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou > reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent > par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. > Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par > téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer > sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que > toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. > > * > From: "Frederick Matzen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:36:59 -0600 > Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction > > If you can't talk the guy out of it then try and get him to at least allow > the USER to start the music. If not that then I would suggest teh next > course is a flash player but at half volume and make SURE that the START and > STOP button is easy to find. > > I wouldn't use a frameset for anything. > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM, John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example > > of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. > > > > On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: > > > > hi, > > Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. > > The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. > > What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music > > track? > > I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some > > feedback of the dangers of this. > > > > -thanks in advance > > kev >
