[WSG] off-topic: RSS Feeders

2005-10-10 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi All

Sorry about this off-topic post and you
can certainly reply off line to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED].



I am behind the learning curve with RSS
aggregators and would like to know if someone could recommend a good desktop
RSS application that would also tie in with ipod or cell phones for reading
reports offline. 



This group always is a great resource for
information. Thanks

Ted

www.tdrake.net
















RE: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org

2005-10-10 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Terrance

A fieldset should contain a set of similar inputs, such as the users
personal information, a fieldset for creditcard information, shipping
address, etc.  It would defeat the coordinating purpose to use a fieldset
randomly to create rows or columns. 

That said, you could set a width to a fieldset and float the fieldsets to
create a columnar form.

Ted
www.tdrake.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:46 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org

Derek Featherstone said:
 the divs are there to provide additional style hooks[...] to
 create rows without using tables.

You have not misinterpeted what I was saying, sorry my email is a little
terse today.I would've have emailed you off-list but couldn't find your
email anywhere (within my 3 second attention span =)

I guess my point is that if you need to create 'rows' of form controls,
then isn't this what the fieldset element is for?

I'm figuring these examples will be influential for newbies and so it
would be nice if the examples used fieldset as it is intended instead of
divs, and you would only need an addtional rule to style the border.

pedantic or semantic you decide =)

kind regards
Terrence Wood.



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Final Answer:...RE: [WSG] using the * within a selector

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

The answer lies not in the * but in using a different selector. Sebastien
Guillon sent me a private answer:



This:
/*english */
a[hreflang=en]:after, a[hreflang=en-us]:after,
a[hreflang=en-ca]:after, a[hreflang=en-gb]:after,
a[hreflang=en-th]:after, a[hreflang=en-ie]:after,
a[hreflang=en-ph]:after, a[hreflang=en-au]:after,
a[hreflang=en-nz]:after, a[hreflang=en-in]:after {content:\A0(In
English); font-size:90%; color:#666;}

Can be shortened to:
/*english */
a[hreflang|=en]:after {content:\A0(In English);
font-size:90%;color:#666;}

See http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#attribute-selectors

You can also put all the font color and size in one rule like this:
a[hreflang]:after {font-size:90%; color:#666;}

So now you're left with
/*english */
a[hreflang|=en]:after {content:\A0(In English);}

--

I'm in the process of adapting an international link idea from Sebastien's
blog. I'll post it soon and let everyone know.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rob Mientjes
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:58 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] using the * within a selector

On 10/5/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-*]:after {content:\A0(In
Spanish);
 font-size:90%; color:#666;}

 Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?

a[hreflang*=sp]::after { ... }

See: http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/CR-css3-selectors-2003/#selectors
N.ȨX+inZ֫v+hym쵩jl.f.ץwq(b(,)උazX
)i
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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[WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information. 

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*  alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.  I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions. 



**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I didnt have room for all of them
but Ive added most of the sites below.

Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!





hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)





2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
* alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com 
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**






-- 
Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus
Torvalds) 








RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net its the first post.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!





Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I
didnt have room for all of them but Ive added most of the sites
below.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!





hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna :)








2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
* alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com 
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**






-- 
Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus
Torvalds) 






**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.








?



Im not sure what this is about. If
anyone knows that Rollyo is bad, speak up, but Im certainly not pushing
any fake googlebar scam. Im talking about the dropdown list that sits at
the top right of your firefox browser.



Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the
site as the brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/
and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company.



Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
3:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!





Fake Google Toolbars
Spreading Identity Theft

Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a
series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver
a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your
credit cards and other personal information are captured,
then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got
details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in
our security alert.

Beware Fake Toolbars:
http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1




On 10/6/05, Buddy
Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Weird, i cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or
something. I tried ping and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside
website but not from my machine.





Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 



Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses!
Announcing the supercool search plugi n!





Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the
sites below.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!





hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)





2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea

sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
* alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com

* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**






-- 
Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus
Torvalds) 



** The discussion
list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
** 

**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
** 








-- 
Brian Ussery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

beta testing: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

b e ussery imagery co.
http://www.beussery.com
706.296.3446
905.935.4396f

be unlimited!


http://www.spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliatesamp;id=2255amp;t=47











RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

2005-10-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Adam



I didnt take it personally. To be
honest, my first reaction was it might have been a bit of spam on its own. When
I clicked on the Google bar alert link, my computer froze. 



Just so everyone is clear, this is not
part of the Google toolbar. Its part of your Firefox browser. I put
this together because it is going to make my life much easier to find
information and I know it will help others.



It did make me wonder if I got sucked into
a web 2.0 community building ponzi scheme. But I did some research on Rollyo
and it does look like an upstanding company. 



For those whose sites are part of the
search, it shouldnt increase your server loads. It looks like it is
referencing the Yahoo engine. That was actually a concern of mine. I wouldnt
want something pinging 25 sites every time someone used the toolbar.



Now, how about them floats?



Ted

















From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of adam reitsma
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
4:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!





Don't take it personally,
Ted,

I think Brian is putting forward a valid point - buyer / freeloader
beware.

Google toolbars can actually do a lot of damage, so even when installing one
from a valid source, it pays to be aware of the risks.

That said, i think that there's a vast difference between installing a feature
from a known source (yourself), and installing one you got a link to from some
spam or popup window.

--adam--



On 10/7/05, Drake,
Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:



?



I'm not sure what this is about. If anyone knows that
Rollyo is bad, speak up, but I'm certainly not pushing any fake googlebar scam.
I'm talking about the dropdown list that sits at the top right of your firefox
browser.



Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the site as the
brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/
and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company.



Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
3:07 PM




To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG]
Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!









Fake Google Toolbars Spreading Identity Theft

Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a
series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver
a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your
credit cards and other personal information are captured,
then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got
details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in
our security alert.

Beware Fake Toolbars:
http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1




On
10/6/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Weird, i
cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or something. I tried ping
and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside website but not from my
machine.





Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 



Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!





Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the
sites below.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!





hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)



2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea

sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
* alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com

RE: [WSG] Css fluid but accurate positioning

2005-10-05 Thread Drake, Ted C.
If all heck is breaking loose on your floated objects in IE.
Add position:relative and it may cure the problem. 

Sure, it is better to break it all down and try a more bullet-proof design.
But sometimes its better to just go with the quick fix.

Ted


-Original Message-
 

Adam Morris wrote:

 What is this bug in IE/Win that you need position: relative; for?

Parts of the float that's overflowing the outer container when pulled 
like this, will become invisible.

 
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

2005-10-05 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Terrence

I try to avoid personal attacks and I thought twice before sending and once
before the graphic designer attack. After sending it I realized I should
have at least re-read the thing before hitting the send button. 

What I was referring to was this line: 

why you would search specifically for a date is beyond me. Do you really
search alertbox in that manner? I just use the search box if I am after
specfic content =)

To avoid conflict and confusion this could have been better worded, just as
my response could have benefited significantly by more thoughtful prose.

Regardless of Jakob's web site, my point was that we shouldn't presume how
someone is going to look at information and should try to offer the content
as effectively as possible. 

Granted, we could use a span to wrap the dates and CSS to present them more
attractively. This would create cleaner code and more flexibility in
presentation.  I think that would go way above Jakob's head.

Placing this information in a table with title, date, summary, etc would be
a nice alternative.  

I don't mean to judge you as a person or a programming. I meant to debate
the concept of presenting information.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:25 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

Hi Ted,

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this.

I really don't see how my previous post connects to the bigger concept of
what conscientious responsible web developer's should strive for, in fact
I don't even understand what you by that. Should I take it that you
consider me as not conscientious nor responsible, or if I'm not with you,
I'm against you?

My post was not a personal attack on Nick, nor was it dismissive of his
POV. Admittedly, I got the impression he was struggling to come up with an
example of how alertbox is difficult to use and perhaps that has tainted
my message, but I was genuinely interested in whether he truely wanted to
select his articles based primarily on date.

I never said that date based scanning was irrelevant - I stated that, in
this case, it was secondary to the title, and in fact pointed out what (in
my view) the purpose of the dates were.

I didn't design alertbox, obviously, so it's anyones guess as to how it is
intended to be used, but I really sincerely believe that alertbox is about
as easy to use as it gets.

Surely, part of usability is pruning out the complexities of an interface?
Less complexity, and fewer decisions to make, in theory, should make
things more obvious and easier to use. And, surely one way to do that is
by not trying to cater for every possible use case?

I suggest that a scanning for single word pattern say, intranet, is far
easier to do than scanning a variable date range (2000 or 2001) which is
the minimum of two matches and twice the mental load. It's also easier to
do using your browsers find function.

Would you have tried to search the list by date prior to Nicks post, or
were you using that as an excercise to see if it was difficult to get
results? Did you search first for the word Intranet, and then the date, or
the other way around (as Nick suggests you should be able to do)? Is
publication in 2000 and 2001 the primary criteria, or is it more important
that it concerns Intranets?

Lastly, I wonder about the wisdom of taking cheap shots at graphic
designers on a list frequented by designer types, such as myself... but
maybe I'm being overly sensitive to criticism?


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

Drake, Ted C. said:
 Hi Terrence

 I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web
 developers should strive for.  Nick states he finds the list difficult to
 read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a
 table would be better.

 But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is
 not
 relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner
 possible.  A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will
 look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly.

 Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we
 anticipated.  But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry,
 I
 went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic
 designer students a floor below)
 Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make
 your
 content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it
 differently.

 By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look
 for dates.  I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts
 around 200, and 2001. So the first thing I looked for was the years and
 then
 scanned by title. Luckily it was chronologically sorted.

 Respectfully

 Ted

[WSG] using the * within a selector

2005-10-05 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I'd like to replace this:
a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-mx]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-us]:after, a[hreflang=sp-sp]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-hn]:after, a[hreflang=sp-cu]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-co]:after, a[hreflang=sp-ec]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-gt]:after, a[hreflang=sp-pa]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-cr]:after, a[hreflang=sp-pe]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-bo]:after, a[hreflang=sp-cl]:after {  content:\A0(In
Spanish); font-size:90%; color:#666;}

with this:

a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-*]:after {content:\A0(In Spanish);
font-size:90%; color:#666;}

Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?

Thanks

Ted
www.tdrake.net

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Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

2005-10-04 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Terrence

I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web
developers should strive for.  Nick states he finds the list difficult to
read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a
table would be better. 

But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is not
relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner
possible.  A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will
look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly.

Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we
anticipated.  But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry, I
went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic
designer students a floor below)
Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make your
content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it
differently.

By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look
for dates.  I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts
around 200, and 2001. So the first thing I looked for was the years and then
scanned by title. Luckily it was chronologically sorted.

Respectfully

Ted
www.tdrake.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:43 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

Nick Lo said:
 That enormous list of previous columns is visually very difficult to
 scan. It is chronological so if you are browsing for a particular date
 your eye must go in and out of the jagged right edge.

The alertbox a title based listing not a date based one, hence why the
title appears first, why you would search specifically for a date is
beyond me. Do you really search alertbox in that manner? I just use the
search box if I am after specfic content =)

The list is arranged in reverse chronology because it makes more sense
than an alphabetical listing, and the most current articles appear at the
top (great for return visits).

I'm sure dates are offered as a courtesy as opposed to a primary
navigating device, perhaps so you can decide if the content is
current/relevant or not, or so you know whats new since your last visit?.

I think a three column table is overkill for a simple listing of articles.


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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RE: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudi os.com

2005-10-03 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Joshua

Cite can be an attribute of a Blockquote or q tag. However, it is the uri of
the referenced quote.
Blockquote cite=http://www.libraryofcongress.gov/constitution;
We the people...
/Blockquote

It will not appear visually unless you use css to add the uri to the block
quotes presentation. However, if you right-click on the Blockquote and view
properties, you will see the reference link.  I would assume the cite could
also include other references, such as Vault 14, stack 5, isbn:. pg. 3,
... but I can't say for certain. Does anyone know better?

Cite as a tag gives more semantic value to the provider of information.
Blockquote
We the people...
citeThomas Jefferson/cite
Blockquote

Apologies if I got the name wrong, I didn't look it up to see if TJ wrote
the constitution and I need more coffee to think straight this morning.
 

Ted
 www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Street
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudios.com

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 12:39 +1000, Lea de Groot wrote:
 I would give strong consideration to:
 p class=testimonialnameciteJoe Coyle,/cite President/p 
  .testimonialname cite {font-weight:bold}
 
 and think about working a q element into the actual quote-paragraph.

This immediately seems to make sense, but I'm left wondering one thing.

With forms, we are encouraged to make use of the for attribute on label
elements, in order to make the relationship between elements clear. Can
a similar practise apply to cite and q? With blockquote elements we have
the cite attribute, but that is different again and can only be used for
href data.

So... is there any way to define this relationship? Or is it just
order-of-content and hoping it makes sense? What if you were to put the
cite after the quote for whatever reason (style guide convention, etc)?

Kind Regards,
Joshua Street

base10solutions
Website:
http://www.base10solutions.com.au/
Phone: (02) 9898-0060  Fax: (02)
8572-6021
Mobile: 0425 808 469

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RE: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists

2005-10-03 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Angela
I was told of this issue recently and it is indeed a problem with ordered
lists. I don't remember what the solution was, but I think it involved
adding position:relative to the list items. You may also need to add
height:1%; with a * html filter to make IE give it layout.

See positioniseverything.com for more information on IE bugs.

Ted
www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Angela Galvin
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:38 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists

Hello,

I'm having a totally BIZARRE problem where I'm trying to style an 
ordered list so that it displays in a horizontal line WITHOUT losing 
the numbering.

The code and CSS I'm using is below:

div#sections_nav ol li {
float : left;
width :  80px;
}

div id=sections_nav
ol
liPlanning amp;Strategy/li
liIssues amp; Messages/li
liChannels amp; Processes/li
liStyle amp; Culture/li
liMeasurement/li
liEmployee Involvement/li
liSkills/li
/ol
/div

As soon as I try to position the li using 'display: inline' or 'float: 
left' the numbering disappears in Internet Explorer.



I'm totally stumped! Any suggestions gratefully appreciated.

Many thanks,
Angela

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RE: [WSG] new site designed - code walkthrough please?

2005-09-30 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Adam
Your code looks good. However, you could simplify it a bit.

This is a page that could use fewer divs. For instance

div id=nav
ul id=navlist
lia href=index.htmlHome/a/li
lia href=content.htmlHistory/a/li
lia href=content.htmlUpcoming Events/a/li
lia href=content.htmlPast Productions/a/li
lia href=content.htmlContact Us/a/li
/ul
/div

It wouldn't take much time to remove the nav div and just associate your
styles to navlist. Right now, you are using rules such as #nav ul. Just put
the rules on #navlist. 

In the news div, you could apply the styles to the news div and remove the
class=news unless you expect to have a variety of dls in that div
#news dl {rules associated with dl.news}
#news dl dl {rules associated with dl.info}

I would change class=small to class=fineprint or newsdetails. This
gives you the future flexibility to change background, colors, positions etc
without having to look for the small text.


div id=news
h3Latest News/h3
dl class=news
dtJuly 1, 2005/dt
ddh4Tickets available for
Rosencrantz amp; Gildenstern are dead!/h4/dd
dd class=small
Tickets are on sale for our
amazing performance of the hilarious Tom Stoppard play. Be sure to book
early to avoid disappointment.
dl
class=infodtAdults:/dt dd$25/dd/dl
dl
class=infodtConcession:/dt dd$20   /dd/dl
/dd
/dl
dl class=news
dtJanuary 1, 2005/dt
ddh4Auditions open for Romeo
amp; Juliet/h4/dd
dd class=smallCome and audition
on thursday nights, at Blacktown RSL/dd
/dl
/div

This is also excessive

div id=feature
div id=feature_top
h3Now Showing/h3
/div
div id=feature_image
img src=images/cosi_icon.jpg
alt=cosi icon /
/div
div id=feature_body
p class=smallstrongWe have a
show that is now on at the blacktown RSL./strong Be sure to watch it,
there's no doubt that it will be fantastic./p
/div
div id=feature_bottom
p class=smallFor any a
href=home.htmlquestions/a, please contact a
href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p
/div
/div



Instead of all these divs, try :
#feature h3 {}
#feature p {...}
#feature p.feature_bottom {...}
#feature img {..}

div id=feature
h3Now Showing
img src=images/cosi_icon.jpg alt=cosi icon /
p 
strongWe have a show that is now on at the blacktown RSL./strong
Be sure to watch it, there's no doubt that it will be fantastic./p
p class= feature_bottom 
For any a href=home.htmlquestions/a, please contact a
href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p
/div

While this may seem like an exercise in nitpicking, imagine how much easier
it will be for the next programmer if they can just add an h3 or a paragraph
without wondering if they need to wrap it in a div and what was the name of
that div.

I think you could cut your div count in half fairly easily. Think of it as a
challenge to see how many you can remove and replace with descending styles.

Ted
www.tdrake.net
 
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RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks

2005-09-29 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I think the future of CSS is not in hacks
but looking seriously into using the conditional comments. Im saying
this as someone that is trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting
older conversions.



Conditional comments are IE statements
that say if ie6 use this additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet,
if neither: ignore this statement.



IE7 is going to throw a curveball worthy
of a World Series ring. While it is easy and more convenient to throw a
* html statement into a CSS, we need to start seriously looking at separating
our hacks into different style sheets and intelligently using filters and
conditional comments to refer to them.



I think the approach this person is
suggesting is very 2005, we need to look at 2006 answers.



Im dreading the idea of inserting
conditional comments into the head sections of html pages. Id like to
insert it into the main.css file that imports more sophisticated styles.
I have been overwhelmed lately and havent been able to test any answers
to this. Does anyone have a suggestion?



Imagine teasing someone that their CSS is So
2005! Did I just coin a term? Has Joe Clark already coined
this one?



Ted

www.tdrake.net













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Irina Ahrens
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005
9:17 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] When bugs become
patterns - A look at CSS Hacks





Hi, 

I've found this to be an interesting idea and wondering what other members
think about it:

When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS
Hacks:
http://spaces.msn.com/members/siteexperts/Blog/cns!1pNcL8JwTfkkjv4gg6LkVCpw!1805.entry#comment

Cheers, Irina.








RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks

2005-09-29 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Anders
That's the beauty of them.
We're sending a special style sheet to IE and the rest are ignoring it. 
And we can define which version of IE uses the style sheet.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Anders Nawroth
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks


Drake, Ted C. skrev:

 I think the future of CSS is not in hacks but looking seriously into 
 using the conditional comments. I'm saying this as someone that is 
 trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting older conversions.

 Conditional comments are IE statements that say if ie6 use this 
 additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet, if neither: 
 ignore this statement.

Conditional comments are Windows-only, unfortunately.
Otherwise I share Ted's view on this topic.

/AndersN

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[WSG] WE05

2005-09-28 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I'm not going to the WE05, I just have too many things in the fire right
now. However, I would highly recommend everyone try to attend these
conferences. Even if you have to pay for it out of your own pocket, go.

You will meet new people, learn new techniques, network, eat convention
food, network, meet new people, and most importantly get inspired to do new
things.

I've attended a ton of conferences from @media to the School for Scanning to
Museums on the Web to the most recent: Business Blog Summit. I have always
learned new things. I've traveled to London, Vancouver, Boston, Seattle, Los
Angeles, San Francisco, and more. I've sat in conference rooms inside
convention centers, hotels, and the Getty. Every convention has been worth
it, even if I can only manage getting into the trade show.

Recently, I went to the business blog summit in San Francisco to learn more
about RSS. During the first seminar, I met a guy from Toshiba who invited me
to a mailing list about business to business blogs. 

Sounds innocent enough you may say.  After posting a few comments on the
blog I get an invitation to submit a resume to (I don't want to dooce
anything, so lets just say it's one of the top 5 internet companies
worldwide).  A few weeks later ... I'm in Silicon Valley interviewing with
this company! 

Yes folks, go to these conferences, meet people, interact, engage in
conversations, grab cool t-shirts and make new friends. Before you know it,
I may be the one inviting you to join this company.  (Yes, I was hired and
start in two weeks :)  )

By the way, this list has been great. Much kudos to Patrick and Thierry for
helping me with javascript programming. 

Ted
www.tdrake.net **
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[WSG] css variables

2005-09-28 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi everyone



There was a
recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS. I looked at them and thought
I need to look at these later.



Well, now Im working on a very
complicated CSS file and would like to replace #f60 in several million places
with {selectedlink}. Its not several million places, I swear, but is
still a hefty number of times.



Heres the deal. I have a main
navigation css. Id like to create an alternate template and instead of
replacing the nav.css with a new flavored nav.css, Id like to put my
color rules in a theme css file.



For example, lets call it something emo
like, lasttraintofresno.css. This lovely CSS file should have only a few rules,
i.e. change the color of the headers, the back ground of the subsection div,
and lets throw in a different border color on the footer. Oh, and
change the color of the selected item in the navigation. Ouch, my 4 rule css
file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing the #f60 code. Wouldnt
it be lovely if I just had {selectedlink}: #ffcfcf?



Is this possible? Is this what they
were trying to tell me? 



What language is my spellchecker looking at?
every word in this email is screaming check spelling!



Merci

Ted








RE: [WSG] css variables

2005-09-28 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Rebecca
That's it. Thanks
I see it needs php. Hm back to the drawing board. I think we need to
make it work with static html.

Oh well.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rebecca Cox
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables


Hi Ted,

You're not thinking of these?

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/08/31/the-constants-gardener/

Cheers


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C. 
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 8:33 a.m.
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables

Hi Terrence
I'm not sure If I asked the question right. I'm not looking to do a search
and replace. I'm hoping to set a variable in the CSS, such as This is the
color of all selected links in the navigation. Then, the css would just set
that variable. All of the various rules would refer to the variable instead
of the actual hexdec number.

How would the regular expression do that?

Thanks
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] css variables

Drake, Ted C. said:
 There was a recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS.[snip]
 Ouch, my 4 rule css file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing
 the #f60 code.  Wouldn't it be lovely if I just had
 {selectedlink} : #ffcfcf ?

There's no point using a slegehammer to drive in a tack.

I usually just use a regex: s/#f60/#ffcfcf/g

Any decent editor should handle that in one form or the other.

kind regards
Terrence Wood.



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RE: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :(

2005-09-28 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Kenny

This sounds like some of the odd background painting bugs that happen with
IE.

Here's my advice. Start adding position:relative and/or height:1% to the
targeted elements and their parents one at a time. 

It goes back to the ever popular haslayout issue.  Look at
positioniseverything.com for more information on this and other beauties.
 

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kenny Graham
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:20 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :(

After a few days, I've almost given up on working around this bug in
IE. I've never seen it before, but hopefully one of you has:

http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/newsite/bug.html

Short version: IE doesnt draw certain background colors/borders. But
draws them if you move another window over, then away from them
vertically. It's insane. Check it out.

I tried removing all transparent background declarations and all
background images, and it still did it. So I put them back.

Please help?
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RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?

2005-09-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Bruce

Try floating the content div instead. I've
often found this to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its
floated children.



I've been writing a document for my
fellow programmers about nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I
think I'm going to change my name to Dr. Seuss.



Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
10:50 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] a better tsolution
than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?







Hello,

on a new site I am working on (http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/) in
Mozilla/FF. you get the horizontal and vertical scroll bars on some of the
pagesand I know 
the reason why. It is because I am overflow:auto on my content div. I
added this after googling and finding this was a float clearing
solver.

the content div has the following CSS:

div#text_area{/*hiding from IE*/ 
background:url(bg_text_area.jpg) repeat-y;
color:#333;
text-align:left;
border:0;
padding-top:2em;
margin:0;
height:100%;
overflow:auto;
}


If I don't have the overflow:auto in FF/moz the div doesn't extend 
all the way to the footer like I want (the div in question is #text_area). Any
suugestions on solving this
problem in Mozilla, FF?











let me know if I need to provide additional information...

full CSS:
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/main.css



-- 
::Bruce:: 










RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?

2005-09-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.








#wrap{float:left;}

#header {}

#maincontent {float:right; width:49%;}

#sidebar{float:left; width:49%}

#footer {clear:both;}



div id="wrap"

div id="header/div

div id=""maincontent"/div

div id="sidebar"/div

/div

div id="footer"/div





Is this what you mean?

It's a very basic version of what
you are describing. It works for me. 



Normally, I float the parent for areas
where I'm afraid clearing an element will also clear the sidebar. I haven't
tried it for the whole page layout. 



div id="gallery"

dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl



dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl



dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl

/div



#gallery {float:left; width:100%;}

#gallery dl {float:left; width:40%;
margin:1em;}



Any feedback on this folks? 



Ted

www.tdrake.net



















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?







Thanks Ted,











not sure I am understanding you correctly, though. Say you have a
parent div you would to extend the length of your content, and within that
parent div you have a div at the top that you want to not float, but fit the
width of the parent, and below the top child div, you have two more twin dis,
one floated left, and one right, each taking up about 50% or half of the parent
div. What would be the solution for this? I don't think floating the parent
would work in this case, unless I am misunderstanding you. 






On 9/27/05, Drake,
Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



Hi Bruce

Try floating the content div instead. I've often found this
to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its floated children. 



I've been writing a document for my fellow programmers about
nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I think I'm going to
change my name to Dr. Seuss. 



Ted














RE: [WSG] IE MAC just won't play ball!

2005-09-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.












Hi Adam

On a side note, I like the blue colors but
I get confused as a user with your use of orange on charisma throughout the
page. I keep thinking it is a link. Your actual links are white, the same color
as the text. 



I find the site difficult to read and
explore. I would at least recommend re-evaluating your link styles and possibly
defining the footer (navigation) better.



Good luck

Ted








On 9/24/05, Christian
Montoya 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 





I think the problem here might have to do with the fact that your XHTML
is invalid. Please run every page through the validator and fix all the errors.
There are definitely elements on every page that have not been closed, and I
think they are causing all the problems. 







On 9/24/05, Adam
Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote: 

HELP! I've just done a
site for http://www.charismalab.com.
Everything is great for Windows PC, Firefox, Safari BUT the client is looking
at the site on her Mac OS 9 IE 5 and it's not right. I've use the import to use
a separate style sheet which helped massively but there are some things that I
just can't seem to make work! I've downloaded the classic mac IE and can't see
what she sees .eg. apparently, the nav line on the bottom of each page breaks
off and starts a new line (!) and I've given up on trying to make the wrapper
stretch 100% so I'm going to simply give each page a separate wrapper and give
it a fixed length, but things still aren't right... can ANYone see where I'm
going wrong??? 
the mac ie css is http://www.charismalab.com/ie51.css

Thanks... 
Adam

















-- 
ADAM x 






-- 
ADAM x 








RE: [WSG] IE MAC just won't play ball!

2005-09-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Adam



I just sent a message about your linking
colors and then looked at your source code. Here's another suggestion I
would make for you.



li class=liststrongThe Energetics of Charisma/strongbr Delegates are introduced to span class=orangeCharisma/spanspan class=boldlab/span's system of transformation through unique principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy (Charisma)./li





Becomes 



dl 

dt The Energetics of
Charisma /dt

dd Delegates are
introduced to spanCharisma/spanstronglab/strong's system of transformation through unique
principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy
(Charisma)./dd

/dl



CSS

Dt {background: (your orange square)
no-repeat 0 0; padding-left:10px; font-weight:bold;}

Dd{padding-left:10px; margin:5px 0;}

Dl span {color:orange;}





It could be further argued that your using
strong may be wrong for the icon since you don't really want to scream
lab at people. Since it is purely decorative, you could wrap it in a
b/b set.



Part of the journey through
standards-based development is realizing where things could be written cleaner
and more semantic markup used.



I still think the orange charisma looks
too much like a link.



Good luck



Ted















On 9/24/05, Adam
Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote: 

HELP! I've just done a
site for http://www.charismalab.com.
Everything is great for Windows PC, Firefox, Safari BUT the client is looking
at the site on her Mac OS 9 IE 5 and it's not right. I've use the import to use
a separate style sheet which helped massively but there are some things that I
just can't seem to make work! I've downloaded the classic mac IE and can't see
what she sees .eg. apparently, the nav line on the bottom of each page breaks
off and starts a new line (!) and I've given up on trying to make the wrapper
stretch 100% so I'm going to simply give each page a separate wrapper and give
it a fixed length, but things still aren't right... can ANYone see where I'm
going wrong??? 
the mac ie css is http://www.charismalab.com/ie51.css

Thanks... 
Adam

















-- 
ADAM x 






-- 
ADAM x 








RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?

2005-09-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Bruce

I can't answer your question
immediately, due to time constraints. But my first suggestion is to simplify
your css to see where things are happening. Here's a snippet of the first
few rules:



/*global structure elements */body { margin: 0; padding: 0; color: #333; font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background: #e2e3d5; height: 100%; min-height: 100%; text-align:center; }#wrapper_outer { width: 769px; height: 100%; min-height:100%; font-size: 1em; min-height: 100%; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;}* htmlbody #wrapper_outer { height: auto;}#top{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat;}#bottom{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat;}







Can become:



Body, div, ul, li, ol, dl, dt, dd, p,
table, td, tr, th, tbody, thead, caption {padding:0; margin:0;}

body {color: #333; font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background: #e2e3d5; height: 100%; min-height: 100%;text-align:center;}#wrapper_outer {width: 769px; height: 100%; min-height:100%;font-size: 1em;margin:0 auto;}#top{background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;}#bottom{background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;}Here's a couple things I saw, repetitive mention of margin:0, padding:0. Declare it once in the top of the page to zero out the browsers. Begin adding margin and padding on elements that need it.#wrapper_outer had min-height:100% twiceThis is an odd set of filters that show something only to IE then you hide it from IE with the  selector. It's not doing anything. * htmlbody #wrapper_outer {height: auto;}I would suggest combing through your CSS to remove extra elements. I have not used the height/min-height 100% rule very often. I don't know if that could be causing any issues.Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
2:40 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?







that's more or less what I am doing, but











take a look at this page in FF











http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/About.htm











scroll bars are there, if I take out overflow:auto in CSS on
div#text_area











it looks even worse cuz, in FF the div only extends as far as the
#right_block_content on some pages.











my CSS for #right_block_content div is:









#right_content_block_index{/*used
for vertical divider on home page*/
float:right;
width:35%;
height:100%;
padding-right:10px;



}











here is an example of a page which is messed up in ff w/o the
overflow:auto











http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/Clients.htm











full CSS
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/main.css

















On 9/27/05, Drake,
Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



#wrap{float:left;}

#header {}

#maincontent {float:right; width:49%;}

#sidebar{float:left; width:49%}

#footer {clear:both;}



div id=wrap

div id=header/div

div id=maincontent/div

div id=sidebar/div

/div

div id=footer/div





Is this what you mean?

It's a very basic version of what you are describing. It
works for me. 



Normally, I float the parent for areas where I'm afraid
clearing an element will also clear the sidebar. I haven't tried it for the
whole page layout. 



div id=gallery

dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl



dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl



dl

dtasdfa/dt

ddasdfasdF/dd

/dl

/div



#gallery {float:left; width:100%;}

#gallery dl {float:left; width:40%; margin:1em;}



Any feedback on this folks? 



Ted

www.tdrake.net




















From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?







Thanks
Ted,











not sure
I am understanding you correctly, though. Say you have a parent div you would
to extend the length of your content, and within that parent div you have a div
at the top that you want to not float, but fit the width of the parent, and
below the top child div, you have two more twin dis, one floated left, and one
right, each taking up about 50% or half of the parent div. What would be the
solution for this? I don't think floating the parent would work in this case,
unless I am misunderstanding you. 






On
9/27/05, Drake, Ted C. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Hi Bruce

Try floating the content div instead. I've often found this
to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its floated children. 



I've been writing a document for my fellow programmers about
nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I think I'm going to
change my name to Dr. Seuss. 



Ted














-- 
::Bruce:: 








[WSG] IFR- what is the latest version?

2005-09-26 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All
I have a quick question.
I am looking for the latest version of using flash to replace header text.

Is this the best approach? My feeble mind remembers an improved version out
there in standardista-space.
http://www.shauninman.com/plete/2004/04/ifr-revisited-and-revised

Thanks
Ted
www.tdrake.net

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RE: [WSG] please ignore prvs. msg.

2005-09-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I was on a mailing list where someone sent
a message to a friend about their coworker and he was like such an idiot. And
did you know Bruce had bad breath



Things like that keep us human.



Ted











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005
11:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] please ignore prvs.
msg.





msg. sent to wrong group,
sorry bout that :-)









[WSG] Questionable material: IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until You Scroll Away and Come Back!

2005-09-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.

My first reaction to Bruce was, well it ain't art, but should we censor. My
second thought was, dang. I could get in trouble at work if I clicked on a
site that took me to something like that.

If you are going to ask for help working on a project that is questionable,
you should warn people in advance.  Just say, hey, I'm working on an
internet gambling site and I'm having a problem.  That would save a lot of
us from having to answer the firewall police as to why we were surfing for
something we aren't supposed to look at in the workplace.



Ted



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:41 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until
You Scroll Away and Come Back!

Have we become reviewers of porn sites now?

Bruce Prochnau
BKDesign Solutions
- Original Message - 
From: Mani Sheriar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: [WSG] IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until You
Scroll Away and Come Back!


Hi All,

Please look here: http://www.manisheriar.com/form/vr/category_medicinal.htm
to see an example of this problem.

The two buttons ('view site' and 'full review') have transparent corners.
But in IE (not FireFox, of course) the top corners initially show up as
white, until you scroll away from them and the scroll back.

But then, if you hover over them, the hovered images have the white corners
and then once you mouse out the white corners are back!  (Until you scroll
away and come back again - then they are gone . again.)

Huh???

The html is this:

p class=btna href=# class=visitspanVisit Site/span/a a
href=# class=reviewspanFull Review/span/a/p

 
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RE: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

2005-09-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Thierry

If were gonna git nitpicky.
I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

tr valign=top class=altRowOdd 
tdinput name=lineID2 type=hidden value=59 /
label for=qty2a href=details.asp?prodID=72Marbled White/a
(023-BAXS)/label
br / 
raquo; Color: Black
br / 
raquo; Size: X-Small
/td 
td class=aligncenter$75.00/td 
td class=aligncenterinput id=qty2 name=qty2 type=text value=1
size=3 onblur=cleanField(this) //td 
td class=alignright$75.00/td 
td class=aligncenter input name=remove type=checkbox
class=formCheckbox value=59 //td 
/tr

To:

tr (alternating row class inserted with js) 
td class=colproduct
ul
liinput name=lineID2 type=hidden value=59 / 
label for=qty2a href=details.asp?prodID=72Marbled White/a
(023-BAXS)/label/li
liColor: Black/li
liSize: X-Small/li
/ul
/td 
td $75.00/td 
td class=colquantityinput id=qty2 name=qty2 type=text value=1
size=3 onblur=cleanField(this) //td 
td class=coltotal$75.00/td 
td class=colremove input name=remove type=checkbox
class=formCheckbox value=59 //td 
/tr


Use CSS to define the alignment on the cells, use an unordered list instead
of br tags.

I like the even/odd rows for tables and divs in this page and the product
page.  If you are not already using the zebraAll.js script from list member
Patrick Lauke, give him a holler. It handles the striping of divs, tables,
lists, and more from one script. I've been using it and absolutely love it.


Will you be releasing this as a package soon? E-commerce forms are a dime a
dozen but there is so little out there that is as well thought-out as this.

Nice work.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:44 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/

I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac
side...

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


  
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RE: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

2005-09-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I see what you mean. I thought of the dashes and thought bullets. 
I think the definition list could be better
dtproduct name/dt
ddcolor/dd
ddsize/dd

I like using definition lists over paragraphs for their inherit structure
and the hooks they provide for CSS.

Do you see any reasons to not use a dl?

I'm still not liking the comma analogy of a sentence. Perhaps in other
languages it could work. In English the adjectives go before the noun. 

So it would be color:black, size:small T-shirt

This is probably making several people on the list grab their forehead and
scream ... who cres!

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:04 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)

Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 If were gonna git nitpicky.
 I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart:

I was going to change the markup as you suggested, but then I thought that a
list may not be the correct markup for this. Because it would suggest that
there are 3 different items when in fact it is one single item followed by
options related to it.
Don't you think this:
Product Name (Reference), Color: Black, Size: X-Small
makes more sense than:
- Product Name (Reference)
- Color: Black
- Size: X-Small

In the markup, BRs are just used in lieu of the , to make the content of
the cell more legible.

Best,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

 
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[WSG] alistapart.com search plugin

2005-09-14 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I just posted a plugin for your firefox browser. It installs a search option
for stuff on www.alistapart.com.  In other words, when you need to find the
code for sprite rollovers, you go to the search box in the top right, choose
alistapart, type in sprite rollovers and voila, you get the
www.alistapart.com search results in your browser window.

Installation is a piece of cake, just click on a link.

Here's the post:
http://www.tdrake.net/firefox-search-plugin-for-wwwalistapartcom/

Enjoy

Ted
www.tdrake.net


 
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[WSG] Questions about the new european parliament web site

2005-09-13 Thread Drake, Ted C.
As many of you probably noticed via the WASP web site, a new web site was
launched for the European parliament and it is a mess.

Now, I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything and graciously ask
for advice. When I looked at the source code, I saw all sorts of bizarre
mixtures of xml, html, and what seems to be cms placeholder information.

Could people describe some of these bits of code. Are they at all valid? 

1. content/content
2. table xmlns:RT=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engineRT;
xmlns:pe=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engine;
xmlns:hp=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.util.Utils
xmlns:psa=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.runtime.PublicationServic
eAccessor xmlns:xalan=http://xml.apache.org/xalan; class=alerttable
cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 border=0 width=100%
3. contenu /contenu - I'm assuming this is the French equivalent of
content
4. br xmlns:RT=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engineRT;
xmlns:pe=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engine;
xmlns:hp=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.util.Utils
xmlns:psa=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.runtime.PublicationServic
eAccessor xmlns:xalan=http://xml.apache.org/xalan/ (imagine 25 of these
in a paragraph! :o )

Maybe it would be more educational if someone could describe how these tags
might have been built.

I'm assuming they are using a .net platform that has been horribly hacked.
Maybe I shouldn't throw blame immediately at .net, but I have noticed
similar things with them.

Should the CMS have translated all of the xml stuff into an action or
content? Is it just bad code?

Content is not a valid xhtml 1.0 transitional tag. Was it ever? Will it be
in the future?

Thanks
Ted
 
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RE: [WSG] Flash elements

2005-09-13 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Tom
No need to go off list, I think this is a valid question for many people.  I
used to use the flash satay (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay)
method but the UFO (http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/)  technique is
really quite nice and easy to use.   

Here's a site that I've used the ufo technique: www.alcalapetcare.com

You can place an image or text in the non-flash area.

Ted



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tom Livingston
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:32 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Flash elements

Hello all,

Can someone point me to the latest and greatest method for adding Flash  
to a page. Also, adding alternate content to a Flash element. Can the alt  
content be an image?

Off list if you think it's best...

Thanks!

-- 
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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[WSG] XSLT errors: was - Questions about the new european parliament we b site

2005-09-13 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Jan
Thank you for clearing it up. I was hesitant to dump on .net. It gets more
than its share of abuse and the XSLT errors are also good to know.

XSLT is not discussed often on this list. I would be interested in knowing
what people would suggest to fix the problems this site is having. 

Consider it an open-ended xslt suggestion post. 

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jan Brasna
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:02 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Questions about the new european parliament web site

It is run on Apache, so the Xalan mentioning there looks like it's a 
product of some bad XSTL transformation. And it's not .NET, it's Java.

-- 
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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RE: [WSG] display inline question

2005-09-13 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Nathan

I had actually just removed the data from
a table, cutting the code by 40% and removing over 1,000 images. This was an enormous
page!



I will probably play around with
variations of the dl to get a nice separation from parent dl and child dl
elements.



Ted















Hi Ted, I have had a similar experience with the same issue.
The two solutions I had were:











1. Accept the currentlimitations of Definition lists
until support for CSS3 is strong and have the definition term above the
definition details. But to make things look a bit more attractive, why not
style the DT to have a soft gradient background and bold the text with possibly
a bit more height than normal. Then for the DD just reduce the left hand
padding somewhat, add a border at the bottom and then some bottom margin to
create a nicely separated list.











2. Use a table! Obviously a DL is the most semantic option
fora list of terms, but if it MUST be in columns then tables can also be
a semantic solution (although not as semantic). So effectively if you use
tables theTH's for the two columns become the DL and DD. Using borders
will also create a good visual association from term to the details to avoid
your shot with some cartoon version of a shotgun issue.











I personally would alwayslearn towardsoption 1,
but if your client demands columns then I'm sure you won't getan ear
bashing by the web standards gods.











Regards,











Nathan







- Original Message - 





From: Drake,
Ted C. 





To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'






Sent: Wednesday, September
14, 2005 3:36 AM





Subject: [WSG] display
inline question









My mind is not working very well today.



I've got a question for you.



I was asked to create a nested definition list with the
nested dl's looking like simple lines of text.



i.e. instead of this



definition term


definition data



It would look like this:

definition term definition data.



I originally did this by floating the dt and dd elements and
applying widths and margins to create columns. All was peachy.

But sometimes the dd's are long or the dts are long and the
columns start looking like they were shot with some cartoon version of a
shotgun.



So, the request was to allow the dt and dd to wrap onto two
lines if needed.



I tried to add display inline, but the following dt will
also appear on the first line until they just look like one big happy
paragraph.



I tried adding combinations of display:inline and
display:inline-block, to no success.



I tried using display:inline-table in the faint hope of
success... none so.



Has anyone come across a solution for this?



The requester actually made the suggestion of removing the
dt/dd and just making them all dt elements. A shocked look from me and
she immediately said, no that wouldn't be semantic and we wouldn't have the
future flexibility. Ah yes, I do hear the doves of peace and joy
somewhere.



Ted

www.tdrake.net














RE: [WSG] Valid Null Value

2005-09-12 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Gez

Can you have multiple tabindex=0 in a document?


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gez Lemon
 

Another consideration with tabindex is that it will put the associated
element into Opera's tab order. By default, Opera only tabs to form
controls, and links are navigated with 'a' and 'q' to cycle forwards
and backwards through the links respectively. If anchors are provided
with a tabindex attribute, then the tab key also stops at the anchor
elements, which means Opera users can't easily differentiate between
links and form controls. Obviously, it's valid to provide a tabindex
value, and it's arguably Opera's implementation that is wrong, but
it's another consideration about the value of tabindex attributes.

 
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[WSG] the struggle to get valid

2005-09-09 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I hope everyone has a nice weekend. 

I thought I'd share a little code I stumbled upon on one of our legacy
includes.

pbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr
brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr
 


I don't know how many times I have to tell the other programmers. If you are
going to use 25 br tags in a paragraph, you've got to close them! How are we
ever going to pass XHTML standards?  

Ted
www.tdrake.net (-- no, it wasn't on  that site)
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[WSG] divitis - chronic vs. mild stages

2005-09-07 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I think you go through stages of CSS/XHTML maturity as you learn how to move
away from tables to table-less design. 

Our first instinct is to use divs the same way we used tables. It feels safe
to load up the page with structural divs. That's ok, especially if it is
what helps you get from x to y.

However, you will get to the point where you realize the first CSS based
sites you built had too many divs and you start looking for ways to place
the styles on the unordered list or paragraph instead of wrapping those
elements in a div.

I still see a valid reason to have divitis. If I am building a site that has
to be flexible, modified by a large group of people AND uses server-side
includes, I would rather make those include files self-contained units. 

Sure, I could remove the container div on many of the includes, but I prefer
to know that if an include is added to a page, the elements within it are
not going to inherit the styles of the page's container. Does that make
sense?

Now, the goal of a medium to advanced CSS-based programmer is to find the
elegant balance of essential divs, spans, ids and classes. Consider it a
challenge. 

I sometimes cringe when I see divitis. I sometimes chuckle. I even at times
yell, hey Brian check out this site's chronic divitosis! But let's face
it, this is an evolutionary process and those of us that have been doing it
for a while need to remember what it was like on the first pass.

Disclaimer: don't forget the horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible divitis
and absolute-positionitis generated by some of the Office software and CMS
systems. I once looked at a form that had hundreds of inputs and labels in
individually positioned divs.  That wasn't the programmer's fault. We just
didn't have time yet to build a new generator from scratch.

Ted
www.tdrake.net

P.S.  Someone in the office just mentioned using the marquee tag.  I need to
sound the emergency siren and get to work.



Some reasons for div-itis:

1. Columns. table cell = div is wrong, but usually columns = divs is
correct.

2. Boxes. The designer wants to put a box around a group of items. There
might be a heading, a list or two and a paragraph, with border and a
background. You could do this without a div (for example, by setting side
borders on all the items, and a top and bottom borders on the first and last
items respectively), but it's easier to just wrap it in a div and give it an
id and a single style. And since box = section = div, it's the correct thing
to do anyway.

3. Multiple backgrounds.

4. Expandability. Sometimes you know you have only one item in a box or a
column, and you know you don't need a wrapper div. But you can bet that in a
couple of months the designer/editor/cleaner will want to add a more items.
So you build the structure to grow.

5. Box model work-arounds. You want to give an item a width, some padding
and a border. You could use some CSS hacks, or you could just set the width
on a wrapper div, and the margin/border/padding on the item itself. e.g.
with columns, I set the width on the column div, then set the
margins/borders/padding on the contents. 

6. Laziness and deadlines. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to make things
simple. Not always worth it.

cheers
--
Geoff Pack
Developer
ABC New Media

 
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RE: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox

2005-09-07 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Forgive me if I throw out another wild pitch.

If I want to simulate a screen reader visually, I use the fangs extension to
firefox. This translates the page into what a screenreader would read.

Example output of Zeldman.com

Page has seven headings and seventy-one links Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The
Daily Report dash Mozilla Firefox Heading level one  Link  Zeldman colon Web
design news List of five items  bullet  Link  daily report bullet  Link
designing with web standards bullet  Link  my glamorous life bullet  Link
classics bullet  Link  about List end  Heading level three  Link  six
September two thousand five one pm edt Heading level two  An Event Apart
plus A List Apart Link  An Event Apart launches , opening in Philadelphia.
Link  A List Apart Link  Issue No. two hundred two highlights the useful and
clever. Heading level three  Link  An Event Apart Join Eric Meyer, me, and
special guests for a concentrated, one dash day learning session in selected
cities, beginning with Philadelphia, PA.

Is this what you were looking for?

Excuse me as I duck behind the umpire.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of dwain alford
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:10 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox

Donna Jones wrote:
 Yes, and I was the one that asked for the link to it.  After I got there 
 found out to get it to read the page one has to hover w/ a mouse - so 
 totally unlike a screen reader.  I think hovering with a mouse could be 
 helpful to some people but it doesn't give one an idea of how the page 
 is read by a screen reader.  i didn't download/install it.

when i initially posted the list i said that it gives you a sense of 
what a screen reader reads the page.  it is my understanding that a 
screen reader will also read title attributes on links and alt 
attributes on images.  although you have to hover the mouse and it is 
not as sophisticated as a screen reader, there are some other features 
for accessibility trials.  i haven't played with it much, but i will 
when i get some free time.

cheers,
dwain
-- 
dwain alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com
 
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RE: [WSG] Submenus anyone?

2005-09-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Al
Your menu hides the submenu from users with javascript turned off. I turned
mine off just to check. Is there an option to display the submenu
information for those without javascript enabled?
Ted

 

Which menu are you using? This will not happen with our commercial Pop 
Menu Magic system, guaranteed. Here is a demo site using the menu, let 
me know if you can get the menu to stick open - I sure can't :-)

Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
 

 
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RE: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox

2005-09-06 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi all
If you haven't read Patrick Lauke's article on using the web developer
toolbar, you should check it out. I thought I knew the toolbar but he's
introduced several features that have made it into my daily work habit.

http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/lauke/


Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Street
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 9:17 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox

On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 23:40 -0400, Donna Jones wrote:
 does anyone have an url for this?  tried finding it on moz and couldn't 
 and really would like to try it out.

http://accessibar.mozdev.org/

 
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More accessibility on opening new windows: was:RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links

2005-09-01 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Gian brings up an interesting point, Instead of using a background image,
insert the image that represents an open window instead. Place text in the
alt attribute that specifies the window will open in a new window.

I think I can go one step better.

The image you are using is still presentational and not necessarily
functional.

How about a href=http://www.yahoo.com  class=external title=This link
will open in a new window onclick=window.open(this.href); return false;
Yahoo.comspanThis link will open in a new window/span/a

Now, use CSS

.external {background: url(bg-external-link.png)no-repeat 0 0;
padding-left:25px;}
.external span {display:none;}


This gives you the visual image without requiring multiple server requests,
distinct language for screenreaders, and provides clear information for
those without CSS enabled.

Will a screen reader read something that has display:none? Does someone have
a better suggestion for hiding this? I'm worried that text-indent would
create a huge target area for the link and position absolute may get thrown
off by where the link is used.


We could use javascript to detect the external link, i.e. look for
href=http or more likely a series of detects. It could insert the class,
the title, and the span.

This makes it easier on the programmer, they would write:

a href=http://www.yahoo.com;Yahoo.com/a

Thierry wrote a script for the latest post on my web site:
www.tdrake.net.  You could use this as the starting point for the above
javascript and just modify it for what it is looking for and needs to
insert. 

P.S. I can't figure out why this post is behaving differently than others on
my blog. I know it looks horrible as a permalink. There is an extra /div
getting inserted and it is using a different comments include. Has anyone
else had this issue on Wordpress?





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gian Sampson-Wild (PurpleTop)
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll background images on links

Hi Ted

Just so you are aware, background images are not read by screen readers so
if you are trying to make the site accessible you should ensure that there
is an alternate way of identifying the link as opening a new window.
(Informing the user of opening a new window is a Level AA issue but if you
provide an image that conveys that information it becomes a Level A issue).
Also you can't rely on the TITLE attribute of the link tag as they are not
read out by screen readers by default.  You may want to consider something
like:
http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.au/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=95languageI
d=1contentId=-1 (right hand column under More information)

Cheers,
Gian

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C. 
Sent: Tuesday, 16 August 2005 2:32 AM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: [WSG] I'm on a question roll background images on links

We are using a background image on links to signify they are external. The
image sits on the right side of the link using background: url() 100% 0;

All is fine in firefox, but in IE the icon overlaps or sits at the top when
the text wraps to a second line.  Is there a way to make the background
image follow the text inside a link rather than looking at the link as a
block?

I've tried display: inline-block and that made the spacing better, but
didn't fix the issue.

Here's an example

Good link:  

| Google Virtual |
| World (icon)   |


Bad link:
| Google Virtua(icon) | The icon sits at the top and doesn't 
| World   | flow with the text


Has anyone found a way to fix this? I don't want to go back to inline images
and our standard is to have the icon on the right and not the left.
Otherwise, I would have placed it on the left and it would have been a
cake-walk.

P.S. sorry about an earlier html formatted email, I try to send them in
plain text.


Thanks


Ted Drake
www.tdrake.net 

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RE: [WSG] Microformats

2005-08-31 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Chris
The summary is at: http://www.tdrake.net, but it is about opening new
windows for pdf files.
For a summary of microformats, visit http://microformats.org/ 

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Chris Kennon
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:25 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Microformats

Hi,

Where is this summary, Microformated?

C
On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Ben Curtis wrote:

 Ted Drake just wrote up a summary of the previous opening a new  
 window conversation, so I'd like to grab a sample from what he was  
 doing -- after all, microformats *must* satisfy a real, current  
 need in order to be useful.


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nested table web site example was:RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [IE crash FYI]

2005-08-30 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Wowser Da-Code person

Your site is certainly artistic but ouch, you need to convert that thing to
standards-based. 
I'm sure it's probably the cobbler's son going barefoot, but at least change
your alt attributes to something more appropriate. Use alt= instead of
alt=image. Look at the oft-mentioned sprite essay on alistapart for the
nav and consider the disjointed rollovers via stopdesign or andy budd?


I like the visuals but I'd like to see what your imagination could do with
CSS instead of nested tables.

I hope this doesn't sound too negative, I was just surprised to see it on
this mailinglist.

Ted


Fairness statement

I really shouldn't be talking. I just remembered this old site that I still
haven't removed: www.sdco-op.com/drake 




Hi all,

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote:
 We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have
 received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! 

Just tested with my NT 5 (w2k sp4) + IE6 and it really
crashes when trying to access any page via the top menu.


-- 
http://www.da-code.com/
 
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RE: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element

2005-08-30 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Scott
I don't have an immediate answer for your problem, but I would like to
suggest some more vertical padding on your lists. I found it difficult to
keep focus on the links as I tried to go from second to third level. Perhaps
if the link was taller it would be easier for the mouse.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of scott reston
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element

I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus.
Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively
positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to
the right (absolutely positioned).


HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/

CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css

If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the
 gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely
positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged
the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them.

The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box
is relatively positioned.

If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant
code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is
ul.navigation-primary.

HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate
because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending
code doesn't repair the problem.

Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free
the little grey boxes from IE opression?

Thanks!

Scott Reston
Raleigh, NC


[1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/


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[WSG] Yes, one more open window thing. but wait, this is one to read

2005-08-29 Thread Drake, Ted C.
No to toot my own horn, but

I just uploaded a new post to my web site that summarizes the to open or not
to open a new window debate that we had on this list a week or so ago. 

http://www.tdrake.net

List member Thierry went above and beyond the call of duty to update a
script he had previously written. This new script will allow you to have a
very simple link tag and it handles the open window behavior, inserting a
class for your CSS file and even the title tag to let people know that it
will open in a new window.

I've referenced several posts to this mailing list. I hope I made all of the
corrections, please let me know if I missed someone's feedback or would like
their reference changed.  I couldn't get in touch with everyone.

Ted
www.tdrake.net

p.s. I know the permalink formatting is off. I think I've got a div that is
open or an extra closed tag or something.  That's my homework for tonight.
If anyone sees the problem before me, you get an extra brownie point... :)
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RE: [WSG] Know any standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration?

2005-08-26 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Before this gets off topic and sent to the
CMS mailing list, I too would like to know of a plugin for wordpress that makes
it more semantic and easier to code straight html. I don't like the way
it adds p and br tags to scripting.



I can take responses off line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Thank you













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Harris
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005
11:24 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Know any standard's
compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration?





I'm looking for a standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editor to be
included in a custom-built CMS. It needs to works with IE, Firefox, and
Safari. It should run directly from the browser and not require users to
download and install any lcoal plug-ins. 

Has this been created yet? Has anyone seen up-to-date reviews of the
latest and greatest WYSIWYG editors?

Best regards,

Matt Harris
www.focusontheclouds.com 








RE: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma

2005-08-25 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All
I am finishing up an essay on opening pdf files in new windows, using
feedback from this list to justify the argument. Thiery has written a great
javascript to look for pdf attributes in links and add class, title, and
behavior to the link dynamically. I will let you know when I upload it to my
blog. 

Here's a question for the group.  Your client's page has some empty space to
the right. Could you replace the magazine graphics with an iframe and load
the targeted web sites into the iframe. You could then offer a link in the
iframe to open the page in a new window.  This gives the visitor the ability
to preview the page and then open it in a new window if it looks like
something they are interested in.  Further, you may be able to use some AJAX
to load a snippet of the site into a div instead of an iframe and then use
an external link. 

This site uses an iframe for the gallery:
http://www.superiorpixels.com/portfolio.html

Ted

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:39 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma

Hi Tee,

All I can say is that, as a sighted viewer, if I encountered a site with 
100 links, each of which which opened in the same window, I'd be outa 
there faster than you can say 'back button' :-)

I've been wondering of late if there is another way out of this:  just 
like we can change the colours etc by changing the CSS, (style 
switching) how about if the user gets a choice by selecting certain site 
characteristics at start up?  Has anyone tried this and taken it as far 
as choice of how new windows open?

Just thinking aloud here  . . .

Bob McClelland
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk


tee wrote:

 Hi accessible care takers, I  know open new window even for external  
 site is no good and have put it in practise for most sites I have  
 done, however I am kind of stuck on a site  that has over 100 links  
 to external sites. My client, understands no accessible issues  
 however she was willing to take many of my suggestions, except the  
 NO  'open new window' to external sites. Her argument is valid and  
 justifiable, that she is afraid her audience (marketing decision  
 markers, art directors and IT managers, ad firm account managers etc)  
 will get lost if there isn't new window open for external site. I  
 tried to convince her that her audience probably are more advanced  
 internet users than most grandpa/grandmom audience my other clients  
 have. She doesn't buy it and I haven't give up :)

 Visited Accessify, sitepoint as well as WSG archives to look for  
 perfect solution; there seems none. It can also be quite a pain  
 adding js code just to make the link works.

 My temporarily solution is to have the 'title=right click for new  
 window' in the a href tag, and also provides an open new window  
 icon next to the link text, however I am afraid this may actually  
 creates confusion to her audience. So I created another icon that  
 indicates 'right click to open new window'  - it seems a bit over kill.

 I still think the 'title=right click for new window' is the best  
 approach, but I notice the indication takes more than 3 seconds to  
 show. Some people click faster than 3 seconds.

 Can you tell the message I try to convey at the first glance of the  
 icon? Does it too fancy, too confusing?
 please see the first two links.
 http://clients.lotusseeds.com/news/june05_nikkeibussiness.html

 thanks!

 tee
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RE: [WSG] Misbehaving DL in TD

2005-08-25 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I agree with Peter, the float:left, float:right is the easiest way to handle
this situation. 
Play around with the percentages to get the right amount of space between
the columns, but give yourself some slop factor to avoid any problems with
the two columns not fitting. You could also float the container to avoid the
clear:both from throwing off any future floated columns.

I think the definition list is a good approach for this content.

Ted

 

Sean SPALDING wrote:
 This page (http://www.business.ecu.edu.au/users/sean/webdev/flobo.htm) has
a
 styled DL in a table. In IE the 2nd, 3rd, etc DDs for each DT slip left
 under the DT.


 Any suggestions?

Hi Sean

One suggestion would be to float the dd elements right and use their 
width and right margin to achieve that end. I've appended the 
stylesheet, with the necessary changes, below. It was necessary to add a

clear: both;

 
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RE: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma

2005-08-25 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Janelle
Regardless of your window philosophy, I think using target=top is asking
for trouble. That is a common target for pages with frames. I would at least
suggest using a target name that is not part of the frame architecture. That
is why most people used target=_blank. There are better javascript options
to avoid using target, which is deprecated in XHTML and is asking html to do
behaviors instead of letting javascript do it.

Janelle said:

I find it very confusing.  The policy we use for our corporate website is to
open a new browser window for external links with target=top title=This
link will open in a new browser window.

 
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RE: [WSG] Can this function be duplicated using CSS

2005-08-24 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Jeff
The answer/question is not whether this can be done with CSS, but rather can
it be done with standards-based design.

CSS defines the presentation of a page and not the behavior. Your example is
using a hover activity to cause a section to scroll. This would be better
done with DOM oriented JavaScript. There are some very talented JavaScript
programmers on this list, Thierry and Patrick to name two, that could
describe the steps involved in replacing this flash movie with semantic
code.

Ted
www.tdrake.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:44 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Can this function be duplicated using CSS

http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/05bikes/cls/05_cls_01.html

The scrolling section...can this feature/function be duplicated using
nothing but CSS?  The entire scroll effect, the links and targets, etc.

If so can someone be kind enough to explain how and give some url examples
to tutorials that help in accomplishing this?

Thanks

Jeff

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[WSG] apologies and Microsoft question

2005-08-22 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Sorry gang for not unsubscribing temporarily. I hope I didn't send out a
truckload of out of office reminders.

I was at the Business Blog Summit in San Francisco. Microsoft had a large
presence; they even bought our support by handing out some absolutely fab
messenger bags.  Regardless of my ability to be swayed by super-cool swag, I
have a question.

They kept talking about a new feature, that if adopted by web sites, would
allow RSS feeds and whatnot to be more universal. I believe they called it
list extension.


Question:
Is this another proprietary browser feature or a schema for xml tags? If it
is a schema, how does it relate to the Dublin Core and the Semantic Web?  

The audience was mostly business people and marketing types, the last thing
they wanted to hear about was xml, schemas, and god forbid RSS feeds (Scoble
and Dave Taylor argued for 30 minutes in one session about full feeds vs.
abbreviated feeds... snore... Ford vs. Chevy... snore...). So they talked
about the virtues and left the tech a mystery.  

Did I mention how cool the bag was? Must like IE7...Must like IE7... Must
like IE7 For some reason, this keeps repeating in my mind every time I
pick up the magnificently useful and hip bag.

 

Ted Drake
www.tdrake.net

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RE: [WSG] html design - best practices

2005-08-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Dwain

I try to avoid using spans as much as possible. It's not that they are bad,
but that they could be avoided in many instances.  

It takes me back to something that an editor once taught me. She said that I
should think twice before using the word that. It can usually be removed
and the sentence written more efficiently. I took that advice to heart and
use it the same way that I would code using spans. 

Get the idea?  A page full of spans is like a paragraph full of thats.

Think twice before using a span.  Should this section be a header, link or a
definition list?  If not, feel free to use a span. It is great for changing
small sections of inline text. 

I also like to use spans creatively with CSS. a href=blah
spannbsp;/span/a. Use absolute positioning to place the span at the
top of the page, make it a block and place a background image to create a
secondary link on another part of the page (Was this from Andy Budd or
Stopdesign?)
I've also used spans h3blah spanedit/spanh3 to take the edit or
whatever text and do something different with it, such as float it to the
right.  Remember, you don't need to put a class on your spans. 
If you use your spans sparingly and selectively, you can just target them by
their parents:
a span, dt span, label span {font-weight:normal;}
h3 span {float:right;}

Have fun with that there tag.

Ted
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:46 AM
To: wsg
Subject: [WSG] html design - best practices

hello,
i've been lurking for a while and commenting occasionally, and i 
appreciate the change of venue.  i am a designer learning about 
development.  i have become more interested in web standards for the 
past year.  thanks for the post about westciv (x)html class, i feel that 
i am ready for it now.

here's my question.  i have a page with text that i want highlighted.  i 
currently have the text in atext/a and styled with css.  what is 
the best practice, semantically, to achieve this, as strong is not 
what i want, because i don't want someone to get yelled at by their 
screen reader.  i guess what i am looking to do is emphasize the text so 
it will stand out on the page and be treated the same by a screen 
reader.  is this what the em tag is for?

dwain
-- 
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com

The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.
Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning The Spiritual In Art
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[WSG] attribute selectors question

2005-08-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I have a quick question. I don't seem to be running on all cylinders and I
can't remember how to write the css that would look for a link that has .pdf
in the href.
 A [href???.pdf]...

Or am I mixing up my CSS and javascript?

I need some coffee.

Ted 
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RE: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing

2005-08-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Janelle

This is CSS shorthand, it is the same as font-size:x-small;
line-height:130%; font-family...;}
Personally, I like to write out the long format while testing my pages. I
just seem to have less bugs when I don't shorten the body font styles.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Janelle Clemens
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 2:15 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing

We are in the middle of redesigning our company's website and after using pt
for so long ems have been challenging to get used to.   I have declared body
{font-size: 1em;} and have adjusted from there (i.e. sidenav {font-size:
0.80em;}.Can you explain what the slash in your example is (body {font:
x-small/130% Veranda, Arial, san-serif;}).Is this a browser hack?

Thanks,
Janelle
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Darren Wood
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing

I know there are a lot of old school designers out there (and when I say
designer I mean those people who spend their hours in photoshop and NOT
doing the markup) who still insist that font-sizes be in point size.  That
is simply not practical in the web-space (as, I'm sure you know)...generally
I ignore them and their silly point sizes.  I find the best method for font
resizing is using the keyword syntax, i.e.

xx-small, x-small, small, large, etc

Generally I'd set the base font to x-small/small (depending on what the
design shows) and then use em's to inc them for headers and strong tags,
etc.

body {
  font: x-small/130% Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
  color: #333;
}

h1 {
  font-size: 2em;
}

h2 {
  fon-size: 1.8em;
}
...
...

HTH
D

On 8/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 G'day Mates,
 
 I've reviewed articles on A List Apart and the WSG sites, as well as, 
 The CSS Anthology, but I really would like a more defintive answer
pertaining to the best method for re-sizing text.
 Therefore, I thought it prudent to turn to the experts!
 
 The following is my current set of rules for allowing visitors to zoom
text:
 
 body
 {margin: 0;
  padding: 0;
  font-size: 76%;
  background: #6A6A8F;}
 
 #container
 {width: 100%;
  font: normal 1em/14pt verdana, arial, sans-serif;
  text-align: justify;
  background: #fff;}
 
 Any advice regarding this important design and accessible feature is
greatly appreciated!
 
 Respectfully submitted,
 Mario S. Cisneros
 
 
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RE: [WSG] Win IE hacks -- Please help!

2005-08-16 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Bookmark http://www.positioniseverything.net/ 
It has saved many people from restless nights.

Whenever IE is causing you to scream at the wall, visit the site and it will
tell you how to fix that particular bug.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Janelle Clemens
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:10 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: [WSG] Win IE hacks -- Please help!

We are redesigning our company website and I am in charge of creating the
templates.  We are moving into XHTML and pure stylesheets which has been
(and is still) a really amazing learning curve.  We have always had to code
cross browser but with this redesign we are finally chucking Netscape 4.7
and Mac IE (yippie).   Windows IE has always been our savior as far as doing
what you wanted it to do but now that we are moving into pure css and
tabless we have suddenly discovered the evils of Win IE.

I have searched high and low to find ways around IE css issues but have
recently stumbled on the underscore (underscore in front of the css tag,
i.e. _height).   I've also seen slash stars which I have tried to decipher
but got a headache instead.   We currently are using a sniffer for Win IE
but I would really like to try keep the win_ie.css as minimal as possible.
What good hacks are there for Win IE like the underscore where other
browsers don't render.   Oh, yeah, I found the star (* html, * body) one as
well.   That's a good one too.   But it would be nice to have a full list
for a one stop shop.  :-)

My recent headache is trying to create a column/row of cells, like what
tables used to be used for, but with the display properties table,
table-row, table-column, table-cell.  And after seeing how beautifully they
are rendered in Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape 7 I want to figure out how to force
Win IE to render them too.   Any suggestions?   Oh yeah, I can not give set
heights to the divs because the content is flexible (more or less depending
on the page).

Thanks,
Janelle
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[WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi All



We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and
hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the
general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new
window?



I personally find it annoying to open a pdf document in the
native window and having to wait for the reader to load. I usually right-click
and open in a new window. However, I know some people expect that to happen
and could lose their place if a bunch of windows are opened. I would use the
_javascript_ approach to avoid using target="_blank". This should
avoid the complications of having PDA devices or screen readers attempting to
open multiple windows.



So, I told my co-workers that I would throw this out to the
standards community. Try to ignore any bias I may have. I would appreciate any
honest feedback about whether we should open new windows for .pdf, .doc, .ppt,
xls, .visio, or .whatever.



Thanks





Ted Drake

Web
 Collaboration Services
Science Applications International
Corporation
858.826.3856 / 858.826.3336 (fax)










[WSG] blog business summit

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

Is there anyone on this list that is going to the blog business summit in
San Francisco this week?  I'd like to meet and say hello to any fellow list
members.  

http://www.blogbusinesssummit.com/index.htm?businesslogs



Ted 
www.tdrake.net

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RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Paul
I should have mentioned that the link normally appears within paragraphs of
text. It will sometimes appear as a link inside a list. Floating is an
interesting option for other applications.

Thanks
Ted

-

Floating the link left as well as display:block should make the image sit at
the end of the text, as opposed to spaning the width of the page. This can
cause problems in a few older browsers such as Netscape 6, as once you float
something left it is no longer a block element.
 
Hope that makes sense.
 
 ---

We are using a background image on links to signify they are external. The
image sits on the right side of the link using background: url() 100% 0;

All is fine in firefox, but in IE the icon overlaps or sits at the top when
the text wraps to a second line.  Is there a way to make the background
image follow the text inside a link rather than looking at the link as a
block?

I've tried display: inline-block and that made the spacing better, but
didn't fix the issue.

Here's an example

Good link:  

| Google Virtual |
| World (icon)   |


Bad link:
| Google Virtua(icon) | The icon sits at the top and doesn't 
| World   | flow with the text


Has anyone found a way to fix this? I don't want to go back to inline images
and our standard is to have the icon on the right and not the left.
Otherwise, I would have placed it on the left and it would have been a
cake-walk.

P.S. sorry about an earlier html formatted email, I try to send them in
plain text.


Thanks


Ted Drake
www.tdrake.net 
 
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RE: [WSG] Reason for leaving

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Here is something to remember, even if disabled visitors are not your main
concern. 
The biggest blind user in the world is Google.

Code your pages correctly, delivering friendly pages to the disabled and
Google,  and your customers will benefit in many ways.  It's not just about
doing what is charitable. It is about doing what is best for everyone.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Duncan Stigwood
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 10:36 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving

On 12/08/05, Brian Grimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 This forum has unfortunately degraded from a useful resource in regards to
 properly writing code for use by those with disabilities to just another
 HTML help group...
 

Are the disabed really the main priority when it comes to web
standards? I'm new to web design as a job and I like the fact I know
the standards and am on this list because I see it as the niche in the
market that'll help me be a successful freelancer.

For me coding to standards has been more about being state of the art
than anything else. Knowing that behind the pretty interface is slim
and sexy coding.  I always laughed off the disability thing the same
way you do when there are no spaces in the supermarket car park except
all the disabled spots.

Is there really that many disabled internet users? I would like to know. :)
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RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Damian
Thanks for the feedback. We use CSS to place an icon in front of the link to
illustrate the file format as well as the (filename.pdf, 35k) designation.

Is there anyone out there that supports opening in a new window?  If not, it
looks like I will suggest we keep it behavior-free.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Damian Sweeney
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:01 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

Hi Ted,

I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough
information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and
can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal
with different file types according to their preference (open the document
in the browser, open it in the application, download the file). Opening in
a new window removes user choice. By providing a plain link you give users
the option that you use of `right-click - open in new window`. How do I
choose to open a new-window-link in the current window if that is my
preference?

The only time I open links (to web pages) in a new window is when I have
to place a link inside someone else's frame and I warn the user that I'm
doing it. I wouldn't use a new window for the downloadable documents you
are referring to.

Unexpected pdfs are annoying, especially for low-bandwidth users. So, I
would recommend something like:

a href=document.pdfSome stuff (pdf format, 200kb)/a

Include all the info in the link, if you can, for people who only read the
links.

Cheers,

Damian

 Hi All



 We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the
user's
 browser / making it more user-friendly.  What is the general feeling
towards
 having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window?


--
Damian Sweeney
Learning Skills Adviser (online)
Language and Learning Skills Unit
Instructional Designer, AIRport Project
Equity, Language and Learning Programs
University of Melbourne
723 Swanston St
Parkville 3010
www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/
www.services.unimelb.edu.au/llsu/
airport.unimelb.edu.au/
ph 03 8344 9370, fax 03 9349 1039

This email and any attachments may contain personal information or 
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copyright. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of any part of  it
is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or  any
attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any
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RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I fall in line with Gary.

I'm savvy enough to right-click on
pdf links but when I forget to do it, I'm aggrevated by the browser
having to load the reader software. I would be happy to have it open a new
window. 



This is for an intranet site, but I think
the discussion is valid for all web sites. 



I use this: 
return false; instead of target="_blank".



Jeremy Keith recently spoke about using
the class in the link to target a _javascript_ to add the behavior, leaving a
nice, clean link.



Correct me if I'm wrong. By
replacing the target with the script, we are bypassing the issue of
screenreaders and portable devices getting confused with multiple windows.



Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Menzel
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:18
PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility -
opening new windows philosophy







There is a flip-side to the no new window
recommendation..











Many of our users are very computer illiterate and giving them too many
options confuses them.











We do open our PDF documents in a new window and never have any
complaints about it.











We DO get complaints, though, when things are too hard to use or if the
page they were on disappars because we opened a
document in that same window or if the file downloaded and they
can't find it (happened regularly before we launched the PDF in another
window). 











We also get complaints from Mac users for similar reasons (because,
apparently, the default behaviours that have sometimes been set up always just
download files to one place and dont give the user an option of saying where
they want the file - and then they can't find it). 











I'm all for web-standards - but when a user base clearly has problems
in dealing with a move to a standard then I would prefer to cater
for my user base over the standard. There are always
exceptions to every rule. 











Regards,





Gary













On 8/16/05, Damian
Sweeney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

Hi Ted,

I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough
information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and 
can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal
with different file types according to their preference (open the document
in the browser, open it in the application, download the file). Opening in 
a new window removes user choice. By providing a plain link you give users
the option that you use of `right-click - open in new window`. How do I
choose to open a new-window-link in the current window if that is my 
preference?

The only time I open links (to web pages) in a new window is when I have
to place a link inside someone else's frame and I warn the user that I'm
doing it. I wouldn't use a new window for the downloadable documents you 
are referring to.

Unexpected pdfs are annoying, especially for low-bandwidth users. So, I
would recommend something like:

a href="" stuff (pdf format, 200kb)/a


Include all the info in the link, if you can, for people who only read the
links.

Cheers,

Damian

 Hi All



 We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the 
user's
 browser / making it more user-friendly.What is the general
feeling
towards
 having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window?


--
Damian Sweeney
Learning Skills Adviser (online) 
Language and Learning Skills Unit
Instructional Designer, AIRport Project
Equity, Language and Learning Programs
University of Melbourne
723 Swanston St
Parkville 3010
www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/
www.services.unimelb.edu.au/llsu/
airport.unimelb.edu.au/
ph 03 8344 9370, fax 03 9349 1039 

This email and any attachments may contain personal information or
information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of
copyright. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of any part
ofit
is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email orany

attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any
attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this
email is received in error please delete it and notify us by
returnemail
or by phoning (03) 8344 9370. 






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RE: [WSG] Building a tree/table

2005-08-12 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Fred

I don't want to repost the information because it was a bit lengthy, but you
may want to visit this thread:
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg17305.html

I have put together a nested unordered list and use a series of classes on
the body and id attributes on the list and link elements to create an
expanding contracting tree with arrows and whatnot. I haven't used the
dotted lines to show the branches but this could probably be done with
background images.

Let me know if it doesn't make sense and I can also send you an updated
example that accounts for elements that have no children.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Fred Eisele
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:05 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Building a tree/table

I am trying to create a combined tree/table view using web standards.

If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example.
http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif

Two parts to this question...
1) how should the content be structured?
2) how would the styling work?

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RE: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom o f the page?

2005-08-11 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I saw an interesting snippet, I think it was on the W3C site. It was a
conditional comment that kept a section from being cropped by a printed
page. I was just searching trough my old files and can't find it right now.

If I remember correctly, it was a rule that said 
@print... #importantsection {avoid break within this block;}

Obviously the above is a very rough sketch of the actual rule.  Does anyone
else know of this?  I thought it was a useful idea and tried it on a page, I
just can't remember which page.:(

Ted
www.tdrake.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Denholm-Price
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:58 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom of
the page?

Hi Bennie  [EMAIL PROTECTED],

On 8/11/05, Bennie, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Has anyone encountered the problem, when printing a web page, where the
last
 line of text is being cut in half?
  By this I mean that the top half of the letters print on one page and the
 bottom half print on the next. 
 
 Any suggestions as to what might be causing this and how to stop it? I've
 run some tests and it doesn't seem to be browser specific...

Can you quote an example?

According to discussion on css-d (e.g. [1]) it's often related to
floated elements -- it seems best to simplify your layout as much as
possible using a print style sheet to help current browsers to print
sensibly. See [2] for some more info.

HTH,
  James

[1] http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/60217
[2] http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PrintStylesheets
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RE: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom o f the page?

2005-08-11 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Patrick
That is exactly what I was thinking of. Do you know what the support is for
this statement?

I was thinking of using it to keep a legal disclaimer from being split
between two pages.  I've just had other things to deal with before working
with it more.

Does this answer the original question about cropping?

Ted



 Drake, Ted C. 

 I saw an interesting snippet, I think it was on the W3C site. It was a
 conditional comment that kept a section from being cropped by 
 a printed
 page. I was just searching trough my old files and can't find 
 it right now.
 
 If I remember correctly, it was a rule that said 
 @print... #importantsection {avoid break within this block;}

The selector would depend on the structure of the actual HTML, but
assuming you have something like

body
...
div id=content
...
div
/div
...
div
/div
...
/div
...
/body

and you wanted to avoid breaks within the child divs of #content, you
could probably have something like

#content div { page-break-inside: avoid; }

or, more generally if you want to avoid any breaks of any elements (which
could be dangerous, depending on how long the individual elements are)

#content * { page-break-inside: avoid; }

Not tested this, by the way...so I may be talking absolute bobbins ;)

P
__
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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Display: markerRE: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division

2005-08-09 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I wonder if the display:markers would be useful for this?
Has anyone played around with it before?

From what I understand, the display marker can be best understood when
looking at a list item. The bullet is the marker and the list information is
the block it is associated with.  Could the text you are using be given
display:marker and then given a position of top:50%? 
I haven't messed with this property and I don't know what the support is
like. I can imagine a certain browser has no idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html#markers 

Ted

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rachel Radford
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:13 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division

Hi everyone,
I'm replying to this because I am also stuck on the same issue. 

I have horizontal navigation that is floated (son of suckerfish style) and
that has relative widths for scalable fonts. Some of the navigation text
runs onto two lines, and some of them are short enough to be on one line. So
problem is the one-liners are at the top of the navigation item and I would
like them to be vertically centered. Can't use line-height trick because
then the two liner nav items get massive line spacing!  Menu is generated
dynamically from CMS database so can't muck with the source code in any way.

Is there any other reliable way of mimicking the old-school valign for table
layouts? I realy don't want to use hacky stuff or any javascript stuff
cause already there is so much hacks just for IE!!!

Rach

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2005 3:16 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello All,

I am sure that you have described this issue thousand times before, but I
cannot find the trick that will do this easily : how do you center text
vertically in a division ?
Easy to do with tables of course, but I would like to avoid using tables at
all.
euh ... as we say in French ... sorry if the question seems stupid.
Pat

There is no such thing as a  stupid question. However, there are often 
stupid answers, and this may be one of them:
CenteringTextVertically-- css-d wiki.
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringTextVertically
Regards,
David Laakso

-- 
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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[WSG] slop factor-- curing float drops in IE

2005-08-08 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Bruce

If you don't want your columns to drop down you need to make sure the sum of
the columns widths does not equal more than the width of the container. If
you need a tight layout, it's worth spending some time to establish filters
to deliver special widths to IE.

I believe most people go for the easier slop factor (whether they realize
it or not). Make your columns skinny enough to leave a gutter between the
two columns.  For instance, the content div is 770px wide. The maincontent
div is 550px and the sidebar is 200px wide. This gives you 20px for slop
factor. Float the maincontent to the right, the sidebar to the left and
you've got that 20px between them.

Now use the faux column background approach to apply a background image that
visually defines the two columns and you have a fairly simple two column
layout that will behave fairly well.

It's not perfect, nor bullet proof, as you are just ignoring the browser
behaviors and leaving room for misbehavior.  But if your layout doesn't
require perfect control, this will do just fine.

Ted



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:40 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] curing float drops in IE

I am always having trouble with my floats dropping below the container
\s they are being floated against in IE. Other than reducing the
amount of space (since IE adds extra padding I believe), is there a
good way to prevent this from occurring?

for example I have two columns with the css as:

#left_column{/*positioning for left column*/
float:left;
width:310px;
margin-left:15px;
}

#right_column{/*positioning for right column*/
width:448px;
margin-left:360px;
padding-left:10px;
}


and the right column drops down in IE 


-- 
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] A web site programming question

2005-08-08 Thread Drake, Ted C.
This is usually off-topic, but I would like to add that WASP has been
working with Macromedia and it looks like it has paid off. Macromedia is
announcing the new Dreamweaver 8 and it looks like their support for
standards-based programming has grown tremendously.  The flash movie has a
sneak preview and the sample code in the movie, i.e. watch how easy this is
to work in the code section... is clean and semantic.

So, if you are looking into Dreamweaver, see if you can get the new version.
I'm looking forward to upgrading. It would be nice to switch from code to
design and actually see the page the way a browser would display a css based
web page.

http://www.macromedia.com/software/studio/experience/


Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Angus at InfoForce Services
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:11 AM
To: WSG List
Subject: [WSG] A web site programming question

I do not know if this is off topic for this list. Just incase please reply 
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you.

I am a web site designer that hand codes with EditPlus and like to build 
header and footer files (basic template(. I am about to start working with 
an individual that uses FrontPage for web site design. I am not impressed 
with WYSIWYG editors and FrontPage even less. I am looking at purchaseing 
DreamWeaver for future web site design. What would be your advice to ensure 
that everything meets web standards?

Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. 2nd Vice president
Choroideremia Research Foundation Canada Inc. 1st Vice President
http://www.choroideremia.org

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[WSG] self-counting list items

2005-08-08 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I've been struggling with the ability to increment nested ordered lists.
I'm trying to update a page that was built with multiple paragraphs that
lead off with b1.1/b...b1.2/b Etc etc

Naturally, I'd like to replace these with 
ol
li
li
.

I was looking through the w3c specs and came across this example that seems
to be perfect. But I can't get it to work. Has anyone worked with this
before?

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html#scope 

12.5.1 Nested counters and scope
Counters are self-nesting, in the sense that re-using a counter in a child
element automatically creates a new instance of the counter. This is
important for situations like lists in HTML, where elements can be nested
inside themselves to arbitrary depth. It would be impossible to define
uniquely named counters for each level. 
Example(s):
Thus, the following suffices to number nested list items. The result is very
similar to that of setting 'display:list-item' and 'list-style: inside' on
the LI element: 
OL { counter-reset: item }
LI { display: block }
LI:before { content: counter(item) . ; counter-increment: item }

...

The following style sheet numbers nested list items as 1, 1.1, 1.1.1,
etc.

OL { counter-reset: item }
LI { display: block }
LI:before { content: counters(item, .); counter-increment: item }

I'm checking this in firefox on win.

Ted






 
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RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

2005-08-08 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Al

I didn't realize you were on the list.  Your web site and coding was an
inspiration to me when I first switched to CSS and standards-based design.

Thanks
Ted
www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Al Sparber
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

From: Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks


 When using these filters, be careful - IE7 is coming...

Wise words.

Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.


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[WSG] firefox for OS9?

2005-08-05 Thread Drake, Ted C.

Sorry for a possibly off-topic post.  We have a client on our intranet that
needs to look at our site on OS9.2.  I couldn't find information on the
Firefox web site about compatibility with this platform. Does anyone know
where I could send this person for more advice?

I did find the Opera version for her.
http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=macver=6.03

I'd like to give her both options.  Is there a Safari version for OS9?

Thanks

You can send a response off-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ted
www.tdrake.net 
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RE: [WSG] Flash and Standards

2005-08-05 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Hi Bruce

The flash satay seems to be the standard
for flash

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/

There is a new technique, I believe. But
this works pretty darn well.

Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 2:20
PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Flash and Standards







Hi all,











I'm sure this has been covered someplace, but when actually
running into it on a busy schedule...you know the rest.











A simple flash button for audio, from wimpy.





Validator says:





There is no attribute for:





embed src="">





Nor for:





quality, name, width, height, pluginsPage, and
of course embed is undefined.





At about this point one has a tendency to throw out webstandards
completely or the demo. Several hours of fiddling with this didn't help. Not to
blame webstandards for my lack of knowledge, but...sheesh.





Any ideas besides taking a 2 month long course? Does Macromedia have a
place to make their code work with Valid CSS?

















Bruce Prochnau





BKDesign Solutions
















[WSG] IE question - user style sheets

2005-08-04 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I have an IE question

In Firefox, I can choose an alternate page style quite easily.  Is there an
easy way for them to do the same thing in IE?

I found the option to adjust all pages with a user-created style but I
didn't see an option for choosing an alternate style being offered by that
web site.

Thanks
Ted 

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RE: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

2005-08-04 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Bruce
I'm working on a bug right now so I don't have much time
For more control over the dt positioning, apply position:relative to the dl
and then use absolute positioning for the dt. Or use negative margins to
move it without the positioning. 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:51 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

Hello,

thanks for the information about using a definition list to layout
thumbnail images and text. I think this is a great way to do things. I
am still having some layout issues looking at firefox on the PC
though.

take a look at
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm
and the CSS at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css

the thumbnail images and the text, aren't quite aligning like I
want.The dt shoul align to the right off the image above the dd list.
and a little for space between the image and text.

another small issue I am seeing is the picture with the hand holding
the key has some unwanted spacing at the top before you get to the
darker green bar. I need to get rid of that spacing and am not sure
where it is coming from.

Any assistance on this is greatly appreciated!!! 

-- 
::Bruce::
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[WSG] expanding / contracting sections

2005-08-03 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Expanding and collapsing content has been
near the front of my brain for the past week or so and I thought I'd send
out a request to the group for better answers.



Here's the goal:



Have the ability to open and close content
sections by clicking on the header. Don't hide the content from users
with _javascript_ disabled. Don't require the targeted elements to be
hard-coded inside the _javascript_. Don't insert new images into the
content to signify the area is expandable and/or collapsible. Require as little
coding as possible in the XHTML pages. Allow the _javascript_ to be used on many
different pages/sites as possible. A cookie remembers what the person has
opened or closed.



My experiences so far have been ok. I am
using a script on my site right now that allows me to open and close sections
in the left nav. (http://www.tdrake.net) 



I was up until late last night trying to
modify it to use CSS instead of inserted images and have gotten it close. 

Each section is enclosed in a div with
class="hideContent" . Inside is an h3 and usually an unordered
list. When the page loads, the divs have the class to collapse. The h3 should
have a background image that says, hey open me (not so literally) and the
unordered list should be display:none. When you click on the h3, the div class
changes to showContent and the unordered list is display:block. The background on
the h3 should now scream: close me.



The problems with this setup:

The targeted elements have unique id's
that are written in the _javascript_ as an array. This customization avoids
letting me use this on multiple sites

The content is not visible to those with _javascript_
disabled. I could easily set it to show the content as a default and then hope
people close it. I'd prefer that the content is closed visually on load.

I can't get the h3 backgrounds to
work (I'm sure I am just not seeing something right now. Maybe more
coffee is needed)



Here's my question:



Is there a _javascript_ out there that can
already handle these desires? How could I modify this one to not require the
hard-coded array and to collapse the content onload but still show the
information to those with _javascript_ disabled? I looked at the accordion script
on www.openrico.org but it doesn't'
look like it handles mulitiple sections opened at the same time. It's
possible that someone would want to open all of my channels or close all.



Thanks

Ted

www.tdrake.net










RE: [WSG] how should I mark this up ? (thumbnail links)

2005-08-03 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Defintion list to the rescue.

Gawd, it's been ages since I said that
div id=thumbnailheaders
dl
dtFree Applications/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl

dl
dtCost estimate/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl

dl
dtmain link text/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl
/div

CSS:
A img {border:none;}/*get rid of the border on a linked image */
Dl {width: 200px; float:left; margin:0 10px /*something to separate them*/}
Dt, dd {float:right; width:100px;}
dd.imageholder {float:left;}

This is very rough, but can give you an idea on how to use semantic markup
and achieve the positioning you desire.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] how should I mark this up ? (thumbnail links)

I have a test site set up at
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file.htm

and part of it I am struggling as the best way to code it. That would
be the thumbnail images links you see around the middle of the page 
(free applications, cost estimate, one on one).

right now I have a container div and individual divs to separate the images.

My first problem is I want to get rid of the border around the images,
since they are links.

my second problem is I need the link txt to line up to the top right
of the images and have some more text below it which explains what the
link is.

This is probably no simple, but any suggestions are appreciated.

-- 
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

2005-08-03 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I found the site fairly nice. I thought
there was a nice use of white space. There looks like a stray  in the
headlines. I was surprised by the use of small tags. Were those
deprecated or are they viable?

The orange headlines on orange background
is a bit low contrast. I like the blue center channel. My attention went to it
quickly. 

I also noticed an a name=""/a
next to a header with an id. I'm assuming it is just some legacy code.



I think the number of nested divs could be
reduced to clean up the code, but otherwise I think it is a valiant effort.



Ted













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Menzel
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005
4:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] New front page
for http://abc.net.au/







For some reason - the layout is quite different between IE and Firefox.











The Firefox layout seems to be 1024x768 based. The IE one seems
to be based on an 800 width. This impacts the IE experience by providing
missing or cropped images instead of the full ones (again part of the design)
and layout of the Radio, Television, Broadband is not as appealing on the IE
version. And there are actually different articles being displayed below
that (even after a refresh of both browsers). 











I dont understand why this would need to be done like this unless there
was some non-agnostic browser policy at work.











And you know people - if it's the Government they like to manufacture
conspiracies.











However, as far as standards are concerned. All
DIV/UL based - not a table in sight. This is good. But most of the
links on the page dont have a title attribute. This would
potentially score low marks for accessibility. 

















Regards,





Gary Menzel







On 8/4/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I've been waiting for one
of the Australian members of the mailing
list to comment on the new look/code for http://abc.net.au/
so I
might as well raise the issue myself.

I personally had nothing to do with the design, code or any other
aspect of it (apart from being involved in a very broad consultative 
process), but I'd be interested in a WSG perspective.


Have You Validated Your Code?
John
Horner(+612
/ 02) 8333 3488 
Developer, ABC Kids
Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/

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RE: [WSG] background images fluid

2005-08-01 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Bruce

Instead of stretching an image, try the sliding doors approach.  This may
seem odd in a photograph, but could work in situations where the image has a
repeatable section.  #wrap gets the left corner with generic content.
#innerwrap gets the right side with the juicy part of the image.  As the
page gets smaller the juicy part of the image gets closer to the left side
and overlaps the generic section. As the page gets wider, the juicy part
moves to the right unveiling the generic section.  

I know this sounds really vague, but read up on the sliding doors technique.
I think stopdesign.com did a tutorial on this.  I've used it for creating a
background with distinct edges that needed to stretch.

Hope this helps.

Ted


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[WSG] standards resources

2005-07-29 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I have worked with various museums over the past few years and I am setting
up a new web site for standards-based resources for museums and non-profit
organizations. 

I'd like to ask those that have put together standards-galleries, resources,
repositories, etc in the past if they have any suggestions on what should be
offered, put together, etc. 

I will be using wordpress and wiki.

You can send responses off-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks
Ted

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[WSG] converting legacy code

2005-07-28 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi all

I'm in the process of updating old style sheets on an enormous site with
lots of legacy bad code.  The goal of this css update is to make the shift
seamless, yet offer new features for programmers to begin coding the content
section with semantic markup. As we move towards css-based layout the code
will be in better condition for transferring.

Here are a few lessons I've learned.

When the body tag is filled with link definitions, avoid placing colors in
the style sheet. The first draft of the style sheet copied these colors (a
{color:#069;}-just and example). However, we began noticing conflicts with
various elements that had spans and font colors assigned. Once again, the
goal was to keep the shift seamless for now.

Don't assign text decoration, bold, color, etc to the a tag.  This was
causing issues with elements that were wrapped in a name= tags.
Therefore, I needed to minimize my link styles and apply them to a:link,
a:visited, etc.

When dealing with pages that do not have id's associated with chunks, look
for commonly repeated nested classes. 
For instance, I was able to target a section that was commonly marked up
with a class=fontsizespan class=textdecorationblah

It would have been easier to say #headline but instead it was a.fontsize
.textdecoration {blah}

When introducing new, properly marked up data tables, we're giving them a
class and all new table styles are only applied to that class of tables.

There are more lessons that we've learned from this and I will post them to
my blog www.tdrake.net within the month. I just had the itch to send out a
few tips while I had a breather. 

Ted
www.tdrake.net 
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RE: [WSG] Content too large

2005-07-27 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Fletcher

This is nothing unusual and points out the advantages of a liquid layout. If
your content is text, try setting your left and right divs with percentage
widths instead of px. For instance: maincontent=65%, navigation:30%. 

If your wide content is a photograph, you will need to come up with a
different solution. Personally, I have hit this wall. I want to use images
that are large in my gallery, 500-550px and this does not leave much room
for a left nav.  

The solution? 

-Ignore 800X600 users
-Allow the user to collapse the leftnav
-Put the content first in the source code and let the nav drop to the bottom
of the screen
-? 


I like the liquid approach on www.simplebits.com . Try his stylesheet widget
to see how you can use more of the real-estate.

What other solutions are out there?

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Fletcher Chambers
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:10 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Content too large

The setup:
Simple 2 column layout.  The left column is floated for navigation,
the right column is the content.

The problem:
I sometimes have content that is too wide for the right column. 
Therefore, in Explorer the content jumps below the floated navigation
leaving a huge gap at the top of my right column.  Sometimes there is
so much navigation that it appears that there is no content because of
the gap created.

Question:
Does anyone see any other technique, fix, layout change, or something,
that I could do to make it so Explorer doesn't give me the huge amount
of white space at the top of the right column.

Code:
http://www.toopractical.com/temp/index.htm
http://www.toopractical.com/temp/index.css
To see the problem, use Explorer and shrink your window's width until
the content jumps below the left column.

Thanks for your help,
 Fletcher
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RE: [WSG] image + title

2005-07-26 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I prefer the definition list approach.
There may be arguments if it is semantically proper, but I like to put the
image in the dt and the caption in the dd.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:11 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Terrence Wood
Subject: Re: [WSG] image + title

Russ has a method for creating an image gallery from definition lists  
at  
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/dl-image- 
gallery.htm

kind regards
Terrence Wood.

On 27 Jul 2005, at 1:34 AM, akella wrote:

 I just want to display image with a shrto description below it.
 And i want that combination to float.

 What is the right semantic markup for this thing. IS it right to use  
 this
 p class=lfigure
 img /
 span/span
 /p
 or may be there is some kind of microformat for this situation?


 --
 glhf,
 akella.

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Blue language - was [WSG] Re: Fed Up

2005-07-26 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I'm not the list monitor, but I would recommend anyone preparing to use blue
language think twice before hitting the send button.  

There are many reasons to not place it on this mailing list.  

For one, it can get the mailinglist banned by overzealous filtering
software. 

Two, these messages have a life of their own in google and you may not want
to have this represent your online personality.

I'll leave the rest of the administration to the honorable list admin.
He/she will probably say this thread is closed.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jorge Laranjo
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:17 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Fed Up

You are in WSG ML
Please don't send this  to the list.

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RE: [WSG] Problem in Firefox on initial page load only

2005-07-26 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I did a quick look at it and it seems to be a float issue. I floated the
contentcontainer and it stretched to contain all of the elements. I wish I
had more time to do a better analysis. I would suggest looking at your
floats and seeing if you can clear them better.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of AntonyG
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:49 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Problem in Firefox on initial page load only

I have a problem with a site in Firefox for Windows that only appears upon
first loading the site. Refreshing the page or reloading the site clears the
problem completely and doesn't seem to replicate until a new browser session
is opened. I'm very puzzled as to why it happens and would appreciate any
assistance in tracking down the cause.

The problem is that the background colour of the main content area doesn't
reach down to the bottom of the container, even though it should (and does
upon refresh!). I have uploaded an image showing the problem indicated by
the red arrow here:
http://www.antonygolding.com/trisalford.jpg (670kb)

You can probably see the problem live by visiting the site in
Firefox/Windows, and see that it's resolved by refreshing the page once.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Antony
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RE: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE

2005-07-22 Thread Drake, Ted C.








I agree. I think.

Ted













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mugur Padurean
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005
10:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Eric meyers on
crashing IE





Ted, now, why did you
give IE another brake ?
It's always gonna need another one and there's nothing we can do about that for
now. Problem is every time we hack for IE we buy it a little more
time. And frankly ... that's a BAD idea.
We found the best grammar (standards) for the web and we made them
reality. We did not, however, found a way to bring IE producers [ :D] to even
patch the darn thing. Lot's of questions here
... 
Things are gonna change with IE 7, you say? Hello stranger ! [ hand wave ]
Welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm 

You know, I just realize that most of IE problems show their ugly, twisted
heads around cofee time ( for any developer/designer ). Preferably before you
had one. That's ...odd :)

If it makes you feel better : I had my sister's 4 year girl ( adorable ) stay
with me last night - her ideea - until about 3 in the morning when mother came
back to pick her up. We had tea with some dolls, trim the dogs hair
a little, painted some walls and ... yes ... that ... we singed SONGS. Man THAT
IS NO MATCH FOR IE. Way more frightening than anything IE can throw at me. And
I had NO evening ... NO night ... and ... yes ... NO MORNING ! She's back ...








RE: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE

2005-07-22 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Sorry for another post. I just wanted to
clarify. I didn't write the post on crashing IE. I cut and pasted the
post by Eric Meyers. I thought it would be more convenient to provide his
insights than to make you click on a link and go to his web site. There was
also a link in there. I just don't want to take credit for the prose of
someone else, Eric gets the kudos and observations, I was merely the messenger.



Ted



P.S. Patrick Lauke came up with a killer version
of the zebra stripe _javascript_ which I am sure he will share with the list when
it is ready. He deserves a round of applause for taking some time out of his
day to help a fellow list member and eventually the entire community.















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005
10:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Eric meyers on
crashing IE





Ted, now, why did you
give IE another brake ?
It's always gonna need another one and there's nothing we can do about that for
now. Problem is every time we hack for IE we buy it a little more
time. And frankly ... that's a BAD idea.
We found the best grammar (standards) for the web and we made them
reality. We did not, however, found a way to bring IE producers [ :D] to even
patch the darn thing. Lot's of questions here
... 
Things are gonna change with IE 7, you say? Hello stranger ! [ hand wave ]
Welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm 

You know, I just realize that most of IE problems show their ugly, twisted
heads around cofee time ( for any developer/designer ). Preferably before you
had one. That's ...odd :)

If it makes you feel better : I had my sister's 4 year girl ( adorable ) stay
with me last night - her ideea - until about 3 in the morning when mother came
back to pick her up. We had tea with some dolls, trim the dogs
hair a little, painted some walls and ... yes ... that ... we singed
SONGS. Man THAT IS NO MATCH FOR IE. Way more frightening than anything IE can
throw at me. And I had NO evening ... NO night ... and ... yes ... NO MORNING !
She's back ...








[WSG] site check please

2005-07-22 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All
I've been working on a re-design of my web site and I know the code is still
rough. However, I think I could use some outside eyeballs on the design. 

You know how things are when you look at it for too long...

http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html

I was trying to keep it liquid but I've settled on a more static approach
and I will tell you now that I am sacrificing 800X600 monitors. They will
have to do some scrolling.  As a photographer, I wanted larger images in my
galleries and feel this is an appropriate sacrifice.

I'd appreciate comments on anything that looks broken, odd, messy, or
whatever.  I need to do some serious cleaning up on it this weekend and then
transforming it to a theme for Wordpress. 

Thanks

Ted
www.tdrake.net

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turning images off - RE: [WSG] site check please

2005-07-22 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi everyone

Georg brought up a great point.

The site design is completely illegible with images turned off. I have a
black background color set on the body and black text. I need to place a
white background on the content section to provide a readable area when the
images are disabled. 

I think this is a very valid point for site design and I thank you for
pointing it out. 

Thank you again for the comments, it will make my de-bugging this weekend
much more productive.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:59 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] site check please

Drake, Ted C. wrote:
 http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html

I really like the look of that one - but...

- Scrolling left isn't easy, so maybe try this adjustment:

body { padding-left: 95px;}
...tested in Opera, Firefox  IE6.
(I can even make it line up perfectly in Opera 8's 'fit to window width'
with this adjustment.}

Major flaw:
- Redefine font-size on body for IE/win. Using Ems triggers the 'extreme
font-steps bug' in IE. Makes the columns overlap on 'largest' and text
unreadable on 'smallest'. Use '%' instead.

- Minor flaw on a photographer's site maybe, but trying to read the
page with 'images off' is 'no good'.

- Search could do with something like:
#search {min-height: 4em; _height: 4em;}


Other minor points:
- A few pixels of the background-image showing at the very bottom.
- Footer weak for font-resizing since the background don't size with it.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[WSG] javascript question - body onload events question

2005-07-21 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All
I've been trying to get a straight answer for this question from our
Javascript person but haven't gotten it yet. I hope this is on-topic.

Many of us are already using the great Zebra Tables from Alistapart.com
It requires an onload event for the body tag and to include a link to the
javascript file. This in itself is easy enough. However, our current site
unfortunately has the body tag in an include. This would mean every page
would have the body onload event whether or not it had a link to the
javascript file and/or a table worth striping.

Here are my questions for you.

1. Does it hurt to have an onload event without a link to the javascript?
This assumes we add the link on pages that need it. 
2. Are there any performance issues if the body onload event is added and
the link to the javascript is added, yet the page has no table worth
striping?  This particular script is common enough to be analyzed. But in
general is this an issue?

I need to make a decision on this as soon as possible and any help is much
appreciated. 

The pages are html tag soup. We are beginning our conversion with semantic
coding of the content and new projects are using XHTML 1.0 transitional.

Thanks again.
 
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[WSG] extending Mike's onload event javascript

2005-07-21 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Mike et al

I've set up your javascript and it is working like a charm. It is adding the
onload event.

Now, here's another question. You suggest how to add new events, but I'm not
sure exactly what to do.

Let's say I get so giddy over my tables that I decide to add the following
javascript to stripe my lists. (from the alistapart.com article's comments -
Vinnie Garcia)

function stripeList(theList, oddClass, evenClass)
{
//stripes a list's items
//parameters: a reference to the list you want striped (theList), the class
name for odd numbered items, and the class name for even numbered items
var listItems = theList.getElementsByTagName(li), i=0, currentItem;
while (currentItem = listItems[i++])
{
if (i % 2 == 0)
{
currentItem.className = evenClass;
}
else
{
currentItem.className = oddClass;
}
}
}

Vinnie suggests the following to activate it:

To run it, just use something like so:

window.onload = function ()
{
stripeList(document.getElementById(myList), oddRow, evenRow);
}


This may be a basic question, but your instructions said to add:

addevent(otherfunction);

+

Here's my question: 

What is the function of this javascript?  Is it stripeList? If so, where do
the above parameters get activated?

Thanks
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[WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE

2005-07-21 Thread Drake, Ted C.

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/ 

Remember my recently posted conversation with Molly? Boy, am I ever feelin'
that today. In spades.

Some of you have noticed earlier today that things were presentationally
unstable. Depending on when you dropped by, you would have seen raw document
presentation with no author styles at all, or some chunks of the site's
usual styles but not others, or all of the usual styles with a few oddities
thrown on top for good measure. For a few hours, during which I had to
attend to something else, the site was fine except that in IE/Win, the main
content column was quite a bit wider than usual, and some bits of content
were visually exceeding the edges of the design box. All that was happening
because I was turning styles on and off in an attempt to stop freezing
Internet Explorer for Windows.

Freezing? Oh, yes. As in locking it up so that people had to use the Task
Manager to force-quit the process. There were probably a few reboots out
there as well; there were at least a couple here in Casa de Meyer.
Ordinarily, I'd apologize. Not this time. If you want an apology, try
finding the person or persons responsible for IE's CSS handling, and demand
an apology from them. I'm not taking the rap for this.

To set the stage, let me back up a couple of days. As I passed by Kat's
office, she called out, Hey, how come my browser keeps getting screwed up?

Because it's Explorer, I said. Next question?

Ha ha. Seriously, every time I try to view your 'ten things to do in
Cleveland' post, the computer crashes. I think there's something wrong with
it.

Grumbling, I wandered over to her computer. Sure enough, the browser was
completely frozen. She'd already called up the Task Manager and was forcing
the browser to quit. She said it was the third time she'd had to do it. As I
watched, the screen went blank, then drew the desktop color and stopped. The
cursor appeared as an hourglass, and refused to change or even move.

Once the system had gone through a hard reboot, I fired up Netscape 7 and
loaded up meyerweb. I surfed around to various posts. No problems at all. I
then launched IE and loaded up the home page. No problem. I went to the
offending post. Instant freeze.

After a few more invocations of the Fatal Freeze, I wandered out of her
office again, muttering about Explorer and Windows and pondering the
possibility that her computer had been infected with some kind of virus,
malware, or other nastiness. But then, the next day, I got some e-mail
reporting similar problems. Then Ian Firth managed to get a comment in about
the problem on the post Really Undoing html.css, even though others were
getting the Fatal Freeze on that very post. And he mentioned that it was
happening in both IE and FeedDemon-which meant it was something in IE's
rendering engine, since FeedDemon just wraps itself around the engine. A
similar report cropped up in the FeedDemon forums this morning, where it was
mentioned that a similar problem had already been seen in the post
Standards Savings. (Not that anybody had actually bothered to tell me, but
hey, whatever.)

So I fired up VirtualPC this morning and tested the problem for myself. And
sure enough, I was very quickly the latest resident of Lockup City. So I
started narrowing down the cause. I'll spare you all the nasty details (and
foul language) of my bug hunt, and cut to the chase: the lockup was
happening on entry pages where the post content included an element that
used left padding. Blockquotes and lists were the prime triggers. There
wasn't an absolute 100% guarantee of trouble, but it was close. I could
avoid the freeze by commenting out a single declaration in my main style
sheet:

#main {
  margin: 0 15em 0 0;
  /* padding: 3em 4em 3em 4em; */
  border-right: 1px solid #AAA;
  background: #FFF;
  min-height: 30em;
}

That's why the content was running rampant earlier today. I had to leave
that line commented out for a few hours. But I knew that couldn't be the
real cause, because it didn't cause freezes on the home page, or even on
monthly or daily archive pages. The freeze only happened on an individual
entry page where there was a padding-indented element inside the content
column. Thus, the source was most likely to lie in style sheet that's
applied only to post pages.

So I started digging through my entry style sheet until I narrowed the
problem down to this line:

.prev-next {margin: 0; padding: 0.25em 1% 0; 
  float: left; width: 98%;}

If I commented it out, and uncommented the padding declaration from before,
there were no problems. So the culprit lay somewhere in the .prev-next rule.
Anyone want to guess at the cause? Go ahead.

Oh, all right, I'll tell you. It was float: left;. As soon as I removed that
declaration, the IE6 freezing problem just melted away. So if you've
encountered freezes while trying to view entry pages in the past, you
shouldn't any more. (If you do, please comment on this entry with 

RE: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000

2005-07-21 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I think Eric Meyers had a post on his site about a year ago about this
problem on his site.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Carl Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000

Dean | eCreate wrote:

If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL:

http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/

I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE.

Thanks,

Dean

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.

  

Just saw your later message about browser width.

If I view the page with IE filling the screen (1024x76), the page 
displays with no problem. If I reduce the window size, the browser hangs 
after displaying the page.



Carl.


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RE: [WSG] Two questions: SEO document structure and font resizing

2005-07-20 Thread Drake, Ted C.








Wasn't the original css ( * html
body {display;none;} ) meant as a joke to hide all content from IE users?

I would simply hate to see someone plop
that into their code and scratch their head for the next hour trying to figure
out what went wrong.

Ted























what does body{display:none;} do for
SEO? then the answer is not very much.



Taking Googlebot and Slurp as examples, they
don't parse CSS or script, they want content within the HTML and that's it.
Most hidden elements, i.e. white text on white background or display: none; for
example contain spammy keywords which will be parsed and ignored as
appropriate.



Rule: write
grammatically correct and verbose content and them search engines
will lap it up, regardless of how you present it. That's my experience anyway.



--

Eddie.

http://blog.tn38.net/
















And what this mean for SEO

body, html {display: none!important;} ?



On
6/1/05, David Laakso [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 

body,
html {display: none!important;}




















RE: [WSG] nth child rule

2005-07-19 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Thanks for the answer. I didn't find the nth:child resource.
Ted


 


On 19 Jul 2005, at 1:56 am, Drake, Ted C. wrote:

 Here's my question, are there special rules for using nth-child pseudo
 classes?  Beyond first, second, third, ... what are the labels? Sixth,
 seventh, tenth?  That is what I would assume.

 Here's the prototype: http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html

There is no such thing as 'third-child' and so one. Only ':first-child' 
(support: Gecko, Safari, Opera, iCab), :last-child (Gecko, partly in 
Safari) and :nth-child (no web browser supports this, currently).

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#first-child
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#nth-child-pseudo

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com/
 
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RE: [WSG] Body tag background color changes

2005-07-19 Thread Drake, Ted C.
I have to agree about using body class instead of id.
Here's what I'm using on one page
body class=sub3 sub3sub1 sub3sub1sub4 asub3sub1sub4

This set of classes match with a set of id's in a nested list that is used
for navigation. This has allowed me to open, close, change background
colors, add icons to show that a parent list is open for children, etc. 

You can use multiple classes but multiple id's in a tag can create problems.

For more info on this, I sent the entire css sheet to this mailing list a
couple months ago, it's probably in the archive under when navigation lists
go bad or some silly name like that.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ben Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:23 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Body tag background color changes


On Jul 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, Bert Doorn wrote:

 Just wondering whether there was a way to include different body
 background colors (for different pages) within the same css file.
 For example #fff for page1.html, #ffc for page2.html etc.

 If every page has to have a different background colour, you could  
 put an ID on the body element, then in your css:
...
 If there's a few different backgrounds but they are used on a  
 number of pages, use a class instead of id.


This is a good habit, IMO, although technically the body tag is  
unique on the page and so many pages on the site can have a body tag  
with the same id -- IDs need only be unique per document. There are  
two reasons it's still useful (AFAICS) to make body IDs unique on the  
site, and classes non-unique:

1. You may be coding in XHTML, which may give you the ability in the  
future to do something entirely wacky like dump every page in your  
site into a single XML file. Then you'd want your XPath query to be  
able to home right in on a single body element.

2. Class attributes are a space-delimited list, allowing you to stack  
up the categories the body belongs to. I use this technique to define  
a range of layout types, which may be content- or section-specific,  
like so:

 body id=pageBioPubIntphoto class=sectionBio sectionPub  
layoutText

The page___ and section___ identifiers are derived directly from  
the path, and the layoutText class in this case sets black text on  
white background (the layoutPic is mostly pictures, with a black  
background and subordinated grayish text).


With this technique, you can do more than change the background per  
page, section, or layout type. You can also, for example, set  
specific dynamic submenus to appear or hide, or layouts with the same  
IDs can be radically shifted.

-- 

 Ben Curtis : webwright
 bivia : a personal web studio
 http://www.bivia.com
 v: (818) 507-6613




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RE: [WSG] what tag will work here

2005-07-18 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Ouch
That is some messy code. Could you show us some of your output?
I've got little experience with asp.net, but I've noticed the asp:label
outputs its own set of spans with inline styles. The problem may lie with
your asp:label tag and not creating a series of nested spans, strongs, etc
with classes. 

I'm sure there are more experienced .net people on this list with better
advice.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] what tag will work here


hello,
Im trying to style some dynamicly loaded text within a table cell, shouldnt
be a big deal right. By default the text keeps reverting back to times and i
cant find out why. The font style's in the linked body and td rules just
are'nt applying to it. The only tag thats working for me that allows a class
to work with the text is an inline strong tag.
Ive tried span and dd but no joy. here is an example




TD class=featuredstrong class=head

asp:label id=lblbusiness_name text='%#
DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_name) %' runat=server
Font-Bold=True

/asp:labelbr/strongstrong class=listing

asp:label id=lblAddress text='%#
DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_address1)  +   +
DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_address2) +   +
DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.Towns_Name) +   +
DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.county) %' runat=server

/asp:labelbr/strong
and so on...


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[WSG] nth child rule

2005-07-18 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi All

I'm working on a re-design of my blog. The design is based on the Passion of
Joan of Arc, a b/w silent film. I'm trying to give certain paragraphs the
impression of scratched film being shown by adding an animated background
image.  It's still rough, but works ok.

However, I have only gotten first:child and third:child to work. The others
don't seem to be showing the background. To avoid having it look like the
same lines were flashing, I wanted to use co-ordinates to move the
background. It wasn't working so I am stuck using top right, top left,
bottom right, ...

Here's my question, are there special rules for using nth-child pseudo
classes?  Beyond first, second, third, ... what are the labels? Sixth,
seventh, tenth?  That is what I would assume.

Here's the prototype: http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html

I'm still dealing with some liquid layout issues, so be kind.

I also know that IE will not pay attention to the nth-child. I'm not worried
about it. 

Ted
www.tdrake.net
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RE: [WSG] Learning The DOM

2005-07-18 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Hi Jeremy
I would like some tutorials on taking older scripts that require body
onload() commands and make them work without placing the event in the body
tag. 

I'd also like a tutorial on removing the javascript from pages and target
the classes assigned to those elements instead. For instance, during @media,
you mentioned a href= class=external could be styled by the css and
the javascript could insert the open a new window behavior. 

Thanks

Ted
-
 
And now, I'd like to turn the question around and ask everyone on  
this list what they'd like to see from the DSTF.

How much JavaScript do you know?
What kind of things about DOM Scripting need clarifying?
Do you want to see examples of cool stuff with a kind of DOM  
Scripting for dummies style explanation or more sober articles with  
a more geeky leaning?

Please share your personal experiences: what's your skill level with  
JavaScript compared to say, CSS or XHTML? What's your opinion of  
JavaScript?

The answers you give will really, really help determine the direction  
that the Task Force takes.

Thanks,

Jeremy
-- 
 
 
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[WSG] can link color inherit?

2005-07-18 Thread Drake, Ted C.
Here's a new one for me.
I'm building a transitional css file for our move from legacy code to new
css. The pages have an inline style that defines the color of a link in the
navigation table (stop your snickering!)
The new CSS has given a visited link color of blue-grey. When I view the
page, the link is grey because it has been visited. My goal is to fix as
much as possible with CSS before forcing people to make changes to the
thousands of html pages, so I can't plan on going back to the original
inline style and setting a visited color. 

Luckily the navigation table (I hear you snickering in the back) has a
class, mainbg. So, I tried this rule:
Table.mainbg a:visited {color:#f60;} however, this gives all of the visited
links in the section orange instead of just the highlighted link. 
So then I tried: tabl.mainbg a:visited {color:inherit;}
But I don't know if this is valid. It gave the active link the nice orange
and made the other visited links black. Which works visually, but doesn't
match the visited color associated with the rest of the page.

So, my question is: is color:inherit a valid rule?  What would you suggest?


Sorry, I can't give you a live example, it's on an intranet.

Thanks
Ted

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