RE: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Terrance

A fieldset should contain a set of similar inputs, such as the users
personal information, a fieldset for creditcard information, shipping
address, etc.  It would defeat the coordinating purpose to use a fieldset
randomly to create rows or columns. 

That said, you could set a width to a fieldset and float the fieldsets to
create a columnar form.

Ted
www.tdrake.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:46 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org

Derek Featherstone said:
> the divs are there to provide additional style hooks[...] to
> create "rows" without using tables.

You have not misinterpeted what I was saying, sorry my email is a little
terse today.I would've have emailed you off-list but couldn't find your
email anywhere (within my 3 second attention span =)

I guess my point is that if you need to create 'rows' of form controls,
then isn't this what the fieldset element is for?

I'm figuring these examples will be influential for newbies and so it
would be nice if the examples used fieldset as it is intended instead of
divs, and you would only need an addtional rule to style the border.

pedantic or semantic you decide =)

kind regards
Terrence Wood.



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[WSG] off-topic: RSS Feeders

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi All

Sorry about this off-topic post and you
can certainly reply off line to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED].

 

I am behind the learning curve with RSS
aggregators and would like to know if someone could recommend a good desktop
RSS application that would also tie in with ipod or cell phones for reading
reports offline. 

 

This group always is a great resource for
information. Thanks

Ted

www.tdrake.net



 



 

RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Adam

 

I didn’t take it personally. To be
honest, my first reaction was it might have been a bit of spam on its own. When
I clicked on the Google bar alert link, my computer froze. 

 

Just so everyone is clear, this is not
part of the Google toolbar. It’s part of your Firefox browser.  I put
this together because it is going to make my life much easier to find
information and I know it will help others.

 

It did make me wonder if I got sucked into
a web 2.0 community building ponzi scheme. But I did some research on Rollyo
and it does look like an upstanding company. 

 

For those whose sites are part of the
search, it shouldn’t increase your server loads. It looks like it is
referencing the Yahoo engine. That was actually a concern of mine. I wouldn’t
want something pinging 25 sites every time someone used the toolbar.

 

Now, how about them floats?

 

Ted

 

 

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of adam reitsma
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
4:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!



 

Don't take it personally,
Ted,

I think Brian is putting forward a valid point - "buyer / freeloader
beware".

Google toolbars can actually do a lot of damage, so even when installing one
from a valid source, it pays to be aware of the risks.

That said, i think that there's a vast difference between installing a feature
from a known source (yourself), and installing one you got a link to from some
spam or popup window.

--adam--



On 10/7/05, Drake,
Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:



?

 

I'm not sure what this is about.  If anyone knows that
Rollyo is bad, speak up, but I'm certainly not pushing any fake googlebar scam.
I'm talking about the dropdown list that sits at the top right of your firefox
browser.

 

Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the site as the
brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/
and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company.

 

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
3:07 PM




To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG]
Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!







 

Fake Google Toolbars Spreading Identity Theft

Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a
series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver
a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your
credit cards and other personal information are captured,
then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got
details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in
our security alert.

Beware Fake Toolbars:
http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1




On
10/6/05, Buddy Quaid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Weird, i
cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or something. I tried ping
and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside website but not from my
machine.





Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 



Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!



 

Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the
sites below.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!



 

hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)



2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea

sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*   alistapart.co

RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

[Drake, Ted C.]

?

 

I’m not sure what this is about.  If
anyone knows that Rollyo is bad, speak up, but I’m certainly not pushing
any fake googlebar scam. I’m talking about the dropdown list that sits at
the top right of your firefox browser.

 

Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the
site as the brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/
and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company.

 

Ted

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
3:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!



 

Fake Google Toolbars
Spreading Identity Theft

Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a
series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver
a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your
credit cards and other personal information are captured,
then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got
details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in
our security alert.

Beware Fake Toolbars:
http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1




On 10/6/05, Buddy
Quaid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Weird, i cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or
something. I tried ping and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside
website but not from my machine.





Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 



Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses!
Announcing the supercool search plugi n!



 

Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the
sites below.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!



 

hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)





2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea

sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*   alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com

* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.  I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**






-- 
"Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ..." (Linus
Torvalds) 



** The discussion
list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
** 








-- 
Brian Ussery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

beta testing: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

b e

RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi buddy

The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it’s the first post.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!



 

Your website will not pull up for me.

Buddy

Drake, Ted C. wrote: 

I
didn’t have room for all of them but I’ve added most of the sites
below.

Ted

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!



 

hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna :)








2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*   alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com 
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.  I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**






-- 
"Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ..." (Linus
Torvalds) 






**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!

[Drake, Ted C.]

I didn’t have room for all of them
but I’ve added most of the sites below.

Ted

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bit
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005
1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the
Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!



 

hi all,

maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... 

http://www.sitepoint.com/
http://digital-web.com/
http://cssplay.co.uk/
http://tanfa.co.uk/
http://www.stylegala.com/
http://kottke.org/
http://www.wpdfd.com/

nice greetings from vienna
:)





2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something 
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a 
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a
standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*   alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com 
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.  I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin
working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may 
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED].

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions.



** 
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**






-- 
"Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ..." (Linus
Torvalds) 

[WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi All

As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com
that allows you to search their posts for information. 

That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something
that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without
having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search.

Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a
personalized search engine portal.  Well, today, I created a standards-based
web portal and then made a cool plugin.

Go to my web site:
http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea
sier/ to download the standardista plugin.

You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox
toolbar:
*  alistapart.com
* w3.org
* simplebits.com
* meyerweb.com
* stuffandnonsense.co.uk
* shauninman.c...
* splintered.co.uk
* stopdesign.com
* andybudd.com
* jasonsantamaria.com
* accessify.com
* clagnut.com
* 456bereastreet.com
* quirksmode.org
* tantek.com
* positioniseverything.net
* tdrake.net
* zeldman.com
* webstandards group

P.S.  I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working
with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may
want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your
suggestions. 



**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Final Answer:...RE: [WSG] using the * within a selector

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi All

The answer lies not in the * but in using a different selector. Sebastien
Guillon sent me a private answer:



This:
/*english */
a[hreflang="en"]:after, a[hreflang="en-us"]:after,
a[hreflang="en-ca"]:after, a[hreflang="en-gb"]:after,
a[hreflang="en-th"]:after, a[hreflang="en-ie"]:after,
a[hreflang="en-ph"]:after, a[hreflang="en-au"]:after,
a[hreflang="en-nz"]:after, a[hreflang="en-in"]:after {content:"\A0(In
English)"; font-size:90%; color:#666;}

Can be shortened to:
/*english */
a[hreflang|="en"]:after {content:"\A0(In English)";
font-size:90%;color:#666;}

See http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#attribute-selectors

You can also put all the font color and size in one rule like this:
a[hreflang]:after {font-size:90%; color:#666;}

So now you're left with
/*english */
a[hreflang|="en"]:after {content:"\A0(In English)";}

--

I'm in the process of adapting an international link idea from Sebastien's
blog. I'll post it soon and let everyone know.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rob Mientjes
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:58 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] using the * within a selector

On 10/5/05, Drake, Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> a[hreflang="sp"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-*"]:after {content:"\A0(In
Spanish)";
> font-size:90%; color:#666;}
>
> Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?

a[hreflang*="sp"]::after { ... }

See: http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/CR-css3-selectors-2003/#selectors
N.ȨX+inZ֫v+hym쵩jl.f.ץwq(b(,)උazX
)i
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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[WSG] using the * within a selector

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi All

I'd like to replace this:
a[hreflang="sp"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-mx"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-us"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-sp"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-hn"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-cu"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-co"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-ec"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-gt"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-pa"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-cr"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-pe"]:after,
a[hreflang="sp-bo"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-cl"]:after {  content:"\A0(In
Spanish)"; font-size:90%; color:#666;}

with this:

a[hreflang="sp"]:after, a[hreflang="sp-*"]:after {content:"\A0(In Spanish)";
font-size:90%; color:#666;}

Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?

Thanks

Ted
www.tdrake.net

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RE: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Terrence

I try to avoid personal attacks and I thought twice before sending and once
before the graphic designer attack. After sending it I realized I should
have at least re-read the thing before hitting the send button. 

What I was referring to was this line: 

why you would search specifically for a date is beyond me. Do you really
search alertbox in that manner? I just use the search box if I am after
specfic content =)

To avoid conflict and confusion this could have been better worded, just as
my response could have benefited significantly by more thoughtful prose.

Regardless of Jakob's web site, my point was that we shouldn't presume how
someone is going to look at information and should try to offer the content
as effectively as possible. 

Granted, we could use a span to wrap the dates and CSS to present them more
attractively. This would create cleaner code and more flexibility in
presentation.  I think that would go way above Jakob's head.

Placing this information in a table with title, date, summary, etc would be
a nice alternative.  

I don't mean to judge you as a person or a programming. I meant to debate
the concept of presenting information.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:25 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

Hi Ted,

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this.

I really don't see how my previous post connects to the bigger concept of
what conscientious responsible web developer's should strive for, in fact
I don't even understand what you by that. Should I take it that you
consider me as not conscientious nor responsible, or if I'm not with you,
I'm against you?

My post was not a personal attack on Nick, nor was it dismissive of his
POV. Admittedly, I got the impression he was struggling to come up with an
example of how alertbox is difficult to use and perhaps that has tainted
my message, but I was genuinely interested in whether he truely wanted to
select his articles based primarily on date.

I never said that date based scanning was irrelevant - I stated that, in
this case, it was secondary to the title, and in fact pointed out what (in
my view) the purpose of the dates were.

I didn't design alertbox, obviously, so it's anyones guess as to how it is
intended to be used, but I really sincerely believe that alertbox is about
as easy to use as it gets.

Surely, part of usability is pruning out the complexities of an interface?
Less complexity, and fewer decisions to make, in theory, should make
things more obvious and easier to use. And, surely one way to do that is
by not trying to cater for every possible use case?

I suggest that a scanning for single word pattern say, intranet, is far
easier to do than scanning a variable date range (2000 or 2001) which is
the minimum of two matches and twice the mental load. It's also easier to
do using your browsers find function.

Would you have tried to search the list by date prior to Nicks post, or
were you using that as an excercise to see if it was difficult to get
results? Did you search first for the word Intranet, and then the date, or
the other way around (as Nick suggests you should be able to do)? Is
publication in 2000 and 2001 the primary criteria, or is it more important
that it concerns Intranets?

Lastly, I wonder about the wisdom of taking cheap shots at graphic
designers on a list frequented by designer types, such as myself... but
maybe I'm being overly sensitive to criticism?


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

Drake, Ted C. said:
> Hi Terrence
>
> I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web
> developers should strive for.  Nick states he finds the list difficult to
> read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a
> table would be better.
>
> But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is
> not
> relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner
> possible.  A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will
> look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly.
>
> Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we
> anticipated.  But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry,
> I
> went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic
> designer students a floor below)
> Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make
> your
> content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it
> differently.
>
> By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look
> for dates.  I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts
>

RE: [WSG] Css fluid but accurate positioning

[Drake, Ted C.]

If all heck is breaking loose on your floated objects in IE.
Add position:relative and it may cure the problem. 

Sure, it is better to break it all down and try a more bullet-proof design.
But sometimes its better to just go with the quick fix.

Ted


-Original Message-
 

Adam Morris wrote:

> What is this bug in IE/Win that you need "position: relative;" for?

Parts of the float that's overflowing the outer container when pulled 
like this, will become invisible.

 
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Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Terrence

I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web
developers should strive for.  Nick states he finds the list difficult to
read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a
table would be better. 

But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is not
relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner
possible.  A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will
look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly.

Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we
anticipated.  But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry, I
went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic
designer students a floor below)
Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make your
content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it
differently.

By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look
for dates.  I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts
around 200, and 2001. So the first thing I looked for was the years and then
scanned by title. Luckily it was chronologically sorted.

Respectfully

Ted
www.tdrake.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:43 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!

Nick Lo said:
> That enormous list of previous columns is visually very difficult to
> scan. It is chronological so if you are browsing for a particular date
> your eye must go in and out of the jagged right edge.

The alertbox a title based listing not a date based one, hence why the
title appears first, why you would search specifically for a date is
beyond me. Do you really search alertbox in that manner? I just use the
search box if I am after specfic content =)

The list is arranged in reverse chronology because it makes more sense
than an alphabetical listing, and the most current articles appear at the
top (great for return visits).

I'm sure dates are offered as a courtesy as opposed to a primary
navigating device, perhaps so you can decide if the content is
current/relevant or not, or so you know whats new since your last visit?.

I think a three column table is overkill for a simple listing of articles.


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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RE: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Angela
I was told of this issue recently and it is indeed a problem with ordered
lists. I don't remember what the solution was, but I think it involved
adding position:relative to the list items. You may also need to add
height:1%; with a * html filter to make IE give it layout.

See positioniseverything.com for more information on IE bugs.

Ted
www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Angela Galvin
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:38 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists

Hello,

I'm having a totally BIZARRE problem where I'm trying to style an 
ordered list so that it displays in a horizontal line WITHOUT losing 
the numbering.

The code and CSS I'm using is below:

div#sections_nav ol li {
float : left;
width :  80px;
}



Planning &Strategy
Issues & Messages
Channels & Processes
Style & Culture
Measurement
Employee Involvement
Skills



As soon as I try to position the li using 'display: inline' or 'float: 
left' the numbering disappears in Internet Explorer.



I'm totally stumped! Any suggestions gratefully appreciated.

Many thanks,
Angela

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RE: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudi os.com

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Joshua

Cite can be an attribute of a Blockquote or q tag. However, it is the uri of
the referenced quote.
http://www.libraryofcongress.gov/constitution";>
We the people...


It will not appear visually unless you use css to add the uri to the block
quotes presentation. However, if you right-click on the Blockquote and view
properties, you will see the reference link.  I would assume the cite could
also include other references, such as "Vault 14, stack 5, isbn:. pg. 3,
..." but I can't say for certain. Does anyone know better?

Cite as a tag gives more semantic value to the provider of information.

We the people...
Thomas Jefferson


Apologies if I got the name wrong, I didn't look it up to see if TJ wrote
the constitution and I need more coffee to think straight this morning.
 

Ted
 www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Street
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudios.com

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 12:39 +1000, Lea de Groot wrote:
> I would give strong consideration to:
> Joe Coyle, President 
>  .testimonialname cite {font-weight:bold}
> 
> and think about working a q element into the actual quote-paragraph.

This immediately seems to make sense, but I'm left wondering one thing.

With forms, we are encouraged to make use of the for attribute on label
elements, in order to make the relationship between elements clear. Can
a similar practise apply to cite and q? With blockquote elements we have
the cite attribute, but that is different again and can only be used for
href data.

So... is there any way to define this relationship? Or is it just
order-of-content and hoping it makes sense? What if you were to put the
cite after the quote for whatever reason (style guide convention, etc)?

Kind Regards,
Joshua Street

base10solutions
Website:
http://www.base10solutions.com.au/
Phone: (02) 9898-0060  Fax: (02)
8572-6021
Mobile: 0425 808 469

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RE: [WSG] new site designed - code walkthrough please?

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Adam
Your code looks good. However, you could simplify it a bit.

This is a page that could use fewer divs. For instance



Home
History
Upcoming Events
Past Productions
Contact Us



It wouldn't take much time to remove the nav div and just associate your
styles to navlist. Right now, you are using rules such as #nav ul. Just put
the rules on #navlist. 

In the news div, you could apply the styles to the news div and remove the
class="news" unless you expect to have a variety of dls in that div
#news dl {rules associated with dl.news}
#news dl dl {rules associated with dl.info}

I would change class="small" to class="fineprint" or "newsdetails". This
gives you the future flexibility to change background, colors, positions etc
without having to look for the small text.



Latest News

July 1, 2005
Tickets available for
Rosencrantz & Gildenstern are dead!

Tickets are on sale for our
amazing performance of the hilarious Tom Stoppard play. Be sure to book
early to avoid disappointment.
Adults: $25
Concession: $20   



January 1, 2005
Auditions open for Romeo
& Juliet
Come and audition
on thursday nights, at Blacktown RSL



This is also excessive



Now Showing





We have a
show that is now on at the blacktown RSL. Be sure to watch it,
there's no doubt that it will be fantastic.


For any questions, please contact mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Instead of all these divs, try :
#feature h3 {}
#feature p {...}
#feature p.feature_bottom {...}
#feature img {..}


Now Showing


We have a show that is now on at the blacktown RSL.
Be sure to watch it, there's no doubt that it will be fantastic.

For any questions, please contact mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]


While this may seem like an exercise in nitpicking, imagine how much easier
it will be for the next programmer if they can just add an h3 or a paragraph
without wondering if they need to wrap it in a div and what was the name of
that div.

I think you could cut your div count in half fairly easily. Think of it as a
challenge to see how many you can remove and replace with descending styles.

Ted
www.tdrake.net
 
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RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Anders
That's the beauty of them.
We're sending a special style sheet to IE and the rest are ignoring it. 
And we can define which version of IE uses the style sheet.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Anders Nawroth
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks


Drake, Ted C. skrev:

> I think the future of CSS is not in hacks but looking seriously into 
> using the conditional comments. I'm saying this as someone that is 
> trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting older conversions.
>
> Conditional comments are IE statements that say if ie6 use this 
> additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet, if neither: 
> ignore this statement.
>
Conditional comments are Windows-only, unfortunately.
Otherwise I share Ted's view on this topic.

/AndersN

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RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks

[Drake, Ted C.]

I think the future of CSS is not in hacks
but looking seriously into using the conditional comments. I’m saying
this as someone that is trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting
older conversions.

 

Conditional comments are IE statements
that say if ie6 use this additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet,
if neither: ignore this statement.

 

IE7 is going to throw a curveball worthy
of a World Series ring.  While it is easy and more convenient to throw  a
* html statement into a CSS, we need to start seriously looking at separating
our hacks into different style sheets and intelligently using filters and
conditional comments to refer to them.

 

I think the approach this person is
suggesting is very 2005, we need to look at 2006 answers.

 

I’m dreading the idea of inserting
conditional comments into the head sections of html pages. I’d like to
insert it into the main.css file that imports more sophisticated styles. 
I have been overwhelmed lately and haven’t been able to test any answers
to this. Does anyone have a suggestion?

 

Imagine teasing someone that their CSS is “So
2005!”  Did I just coin a term?  Has Joe Clark already coined
this one?

 

Ted

www.tdrake.net

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Irina Ahrens
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005
9:17 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] When bugs become
patterns - A look at CSS Hacks



 

Hi, 

I've found this to be an interesting idea and wondering what other members
think about it:

"When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS
Hacks":
http://spaces.msn.com/members/siteexperts/Blog/cns!1pNcL8JwTfkkjv4gg6LkVCpw!1805.entry#comment

Cheers, Irina.

RE: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :(

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Kenny

This sounds like some of the odd background painting bugs that happen with
IE.

Here's my advice. Start adding position:relative and/or height:1% to the
targeted elements and their parents one at a time. 

It goes back to the ever popular haslayout issue.  Look at
positioniseverything.com for more information on this and other beauties.
 

Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kenny Graham
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:20 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :(

After a few days, I've almost given up on working around this bug in
IE. I've never seen it before, but hopefully one of you has:

http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/newsite/bug.html

Short version: IE doesnt draw certain background colors/borders. But
draws them if you move another window over, then away from them
vertically. It's insane. Check it out.

I tried removing all "transparent" background declarations and all
background images, and it still did it. So I put them back.

Please help?
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RE: [WSG] css variables

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Rebecca
That's it. Thanks
I see it needs php. Hm back to the drawing board. I think we need to
make it work with static html.

Oh well.
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rebecca Cox
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables


Hi Ted,

You're not thinking of these?

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/08/31/the-constants-gardener/

Cheers


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C. 
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 8:33 a.m.
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables

Hi Terrence
I'm not sure If I asked the question right. I'm not looking to do a search
and replace. I'm hoping to set a variable in the CSS, such as This is the
color of all selected links in the navigation. Then, the css would just set
that variable. All of the various rules would refer to the variable instead
of the actual hexdec number.

How would the regular expression do that?

Thanks
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] css variables

Drake, Ted C. said:
> There was a recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS.[snip]
> Ouch, my 4 rule css file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing
> the #f60 code.  Wouldn't it be lovely if I just had
> {selectedlink} : #ffcfcf ?

There's no point using a slegehammer to drive in a tack.

I usually just use a regex: s/#f60/#ffcfcf/g

Any decent editor should handle that in one form or the other.

kind regards
Terrence Wood.



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RE: [WSG] css variables

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Terrence
I'm not sure If I asked the question right. I'm not looking to do a search
and replace. I'm hoping to set a variable in the CSS, such as This is the
color of all selected links in the navigation. Then, the css would just set
that variable. All of the various rules would refer to the variable instead
of the actual hexdec number.

How would the regular expression do that?

Thanks
Ted


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] css variables

Drake, Ted C. said:
> There was a recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS.[snip]
> Ouch, my 4 rule css file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing
> the #f60 code.  Wouldn't it be lovely if I just had
> {selectedlink} : #ffcfcf ?

There's no point using a slegehammer to drive in a tack.

I usually just use a regex: s/#f60/#ffcfcf/g

Any decent editor should handle that in one form or the other.

kind regards
Terrence Wood.



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[WSG] css variables

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi everyone

 

 There was a
recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS. I looked at them and thought…
I need to look at these later.

 

Well, now I’m working on a very
complicated CSS file and would like to replace #f60 in several million places
with {selectedlink}. It’s not several million places, I swear, but is
still a hefty number of times.

 

Here’s the deal. I have a main
navigation css. I’d like to create an alternate template and instead of
replacing the nav.css with a new flavored nav.css, I’d like to put my
color rules in a theme css file.

 

For example, lets call it something emo
like, lasttraintofresno.css. This lovely CSS file should have only a few rules,
i.e. change the color of the headers, the back ground of the subsection div,
and let’s throw in a different border color on the footer.  Oh, and
change the color of the selected item in the navigation.  Ouch, my 4 rule css
file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing the #f60 code.  Wouldn’t
it be lovely if I just had {selectedlink} : #ffcfcf ?

 

Is this possible ? Is this what they
were trying to tell me ?  

 

What language is my spellchecker looking at ?
every word in this email is screaming « check spelling ! »

 

Merci

Ted

[WSG] WE05

[Drake, Ted C.]

I'm not going to the WE05, I just have too many things in the fire right
now. However, I would highly recommend everyone try to attend these
conferences. Even if you have to pay for it out of your own pocket, go.

You will meet new people, learn new techniques, network, eat convention
food, network, meet new people, and most importantly get inspired to do new
things.

I've attended a ton of conferences from @media to the School for Scanning to
Museums on the Web to the most recent: Business Blog Summit. I have always
learned new things. I've traveled to London, Vancouver, Boston, Seattle, Los
Angeles, San Francisco, and more. I've sat in conference rooms inside
convention centers, hotels, and the Getty. Every convention has been worth
it, even if I can only manage getting into the trade show.

Recently, I went to the business blog summit in San Francisco to learn more
about RSS. During the first seminar, I met a guy from Toshiba who invited me
to a mailing list about business to business blogs. 

Sounds innocent enough you may say.  After posting a few comments on the
blog I get an invitation to submit a resume to (I don't want to dooce
anything, so lets just say it's one of the top 5 internet companies
worldwide).  A few weeks later ... I'm in Silicon Valley interviewing with
this company! 

Yes folks, go to these conferences, meet people, interact, engage in
conversations, grab cool t-shirts and make new friends. Before you know it,
I may be the one inviting you to join this company.  (Yes, I was hired and
start in two weeks :)  )

By the way, this list has been great. Much kudos to Patrick and Thierry for
helping me with javascript programming. 

Ted
www.tdrake.net **
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RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Bruce

I can't answer your question
immediately, due to time constraints. But my first suggestion is to simplify
your css to see where things are happening. Here's a snippet of the first
few rules:

 

/*global structure elements */body {    margin: 0;    padding: 0;    color: #333;    font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif;    background: #e2e3d5;    height: 100%;    min-height: 100%;    text-align:center;    } #wrapper_outer {    width: 769px;    height: 100%;    min-height:100%;    font-size: 1em;    min-height: 100%;    margin-left: auto;    margin-right: auto; }* html>body #wrapper_outer {    height: auto;} #top{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat;} #bottom{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat;}

 

 

 

Can become:

 

Body, div, ul, li, ol, dl, dt, dd, p,
table, td, tr, th, tbody, thead, caption {padding:0; margin:0;}

body {color: #333; font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif;    background: #e2e3d5;   height: 100%;  min-height: 100%;text-align:center;}#wrapper_outer {width: 769px;  height: 100%;  min-height:100%;font-size: 1em;margin:0 auto;}#top{background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;} #bottom{background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;}  Here's a couple things I saw, repetitive mention of margin:0, padding:0. Declare it once in the top of the page to zero out the browsers. Begin adding margin and padding on elements that need it.#wrapper_outer had min-height:100% twice This is an odd set of filters that show something only to IE then you hide it from IE with the > selector. It's not doing anything.  * html>body #wrapper_outer {height: auto;} I would suggest combing through your CSS to remove extra elements. I have not used the height/min-height 100% rule very often. I don't know if that could be causing any issues. Ted 

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
2:40 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?



 



that's more or less what I am doing, but





 





take a look at this page in FF





 





http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/About.htm





 





scroll bars are there, if I take out overflow:auto in CSS on
div>#text_area





 





it looks even worse cuz, in FF the div only extends as far as the
#right_block_content on some pages.





 





my CSS for #right_block_content div is:





 



#right_content_block_index{/*used
for vertical divider on home page*/
float:right;
width:35%;
height:100%;
padding-right:10px;



}





 





here is an example of a page which is messed up in ff w/o the
overflow:auto





 





http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/Clients.htm





 





full CSS
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/main.css





 





 





On 9/27/05, Drake,
Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: 



#wrap{float:left;}

#header {}

#maincontent {float:right; width:49%;}

#sidebar{float:left; width:49%}

#footer {clear:both;}

 











 

 

Is this what you mean?

It's a very basic version of what you are describing. It
works for me. 

 

Normally, I float the parent for areas where I'm afraid
clearing an element will also clear the sidebar. I haven't tried it for the
whole page layout. 

 





asdfa

asdfasdF



 



asdfa

asdfasdF



 



asdfa

asdfasdF





 

#gallery {float:left; width:100%;}

#gallery dl {float:left; width:40%; margin:1em;}

 

Any feedback on this folks? 

 

Ted

www.tdrake.net


 

 

 

 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?



 



Thanks
Ted,





 





not sure
I am understanding you correctly, though. Say you have a parent div you would
to extend the length of your content, and within that parent div you have a div
at the top that you want to not float, but fit the width of the parent, and
below the top child div, you have two more twin dis, one floated left, and one
right, each taking up about 50% or half of the parent div. What would be the
solution for this? I don't think floating the parent would work in this case,
unless I am misunderstanding you. 
 





On
9/27/05, Drake, Ted C. <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 



Hi Bruce

Try floating the content div instead. I've often found this
to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its floated children. 

 

I've been writing a document for my fellow programmers about
nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I think I'm going to
change my name to Dr. Seuss. 

 

Ted





 








-- 
::Bruce:: 

RE: [WSG] IE MAC just won't play ball!

[Drake, Ted C.]

Hi Adam

 

I just sent a message about your linking
colors and then looked at your source code. Here's another suggestion I
would make for you.

 

The Energetics of Charismastrong>
 Delegates are introduced to Charismaspan>labspan>'s system of transformation through unique principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy (Charisma).li>

 

 

Becomes 

 



 The Energetics of
Charisma 

 Delegates are
introduced to Charismaspan>labstrong>'s system of transformation through unique
principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy
(Charisma).



 

CSS

Dt {background: (your orange square)
no-repeat 0 0; padding-left:10px; font-weight:bold;}

Dd{padding-left:10px; margin:5px 0;}

Dl span {color:orange;}

 

 

It could be further argued that your using
strong may be wrong for the icon since you don't really want to scream
lab at people. Since it is purely decorative, you could wrap it in a
 set.

 

Part of the journey through
standards-based development is realizing where things could be written cleaner
and more semantic markup used.

 

I still think the orange charisma looks
too much like a link.

 

Good luck

 

Ted

 













On 9/24/05, Adam
Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote: 

HELP! I've just done a
site for http://www.charismalab.com.
Everything is great for Windows PC, Firefox, Safari BUT the client is looking
at the site on her Mac OS 9 IE 5 and it's not right. I've use the import to use
a separate style sheet which helped massively but there are some things that I
just can't seem to make work! I've downloaded the classic mac IE and can't see
what she sees .eg. apparently, the nav line on the bottom of each page breaks
off and starts a new line (!) and I've given up on trying to make the wrapper
stretch 100% so I'm going to simply give each page a separate wrapper and give
it a fixed length, but things still aren't right... can ANYone see where I'm
going wrong??? 
the mac ie css is http://www.charismalab.com/ie51.css

Thanks... 
Adam




 












-- 
ADAM x 






-- 
ADAM x