RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
>I viewed it on a variety of browsers on PC. Technically, I guess, the client is correct: the text isn't centerd. The entire image is centered in the window. Since the logo on the left is a drawing, the actual >text - Dragon Way - is visually off to the right. And because of the color difference between logo and text, the text part seems (to me) to be heavier and draws my eye more, so it isn't 'centered.' Sorry, my mistake on #1 not explaining it fully. The graphic should be centered :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check) >Firstly, congratulations on putting together a site that is well structured with the headings etc. My comments relate more to the usability and accessibility aspects. >: >: Thank you for your comments Graham, some excellent points and ones which I hope to address. I totally agree about images off etc. but this is what the client wants? As for the dolls, yup, you don't know what they mean until you mouse over, I like that term, mystery meat :-)
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check) > http://test.dragon-way.com/ > Any other comments would be ace. Firstly, congratulations on putting together a site that is well structured with the headings etc. My comments relate more to the usability and accessibility aspects. · Your splash screen and internal top menu use the “mystery meat” paradigm, ie you don’t know what the graphics relate to until you mouse or tab over them. · The first doll doesn’t show a title if tabbed, only if moused over · If images are turned off – as many users on slower modems do, you can’t get past the splash screen · There is no indication via alt tag or other that the Dragon Way logo actually links to a contact page · My guess would be that many users would click on the Dragon Way logo on the splash screen expecting to go to an introductory page about Dragon Way and would be quite confused when they arrive on the contact page. This should of course be verified through user testing. · I would have expected much more detail about the food. While it is good to know where the restaurants are I would not be enticed to go there unless I had a reasonably good idea of the menu. It the menu page intended to be expanded or is the list it??? · The title on the menu page is also confusing. I clicked on menu, my expectation is to see what dishes are offered if I go to the restaurant. The page title states “Take away and home delivery menu”. Questions will automatically be raised. Is this different to the restaurant menu? Are the prices different? Where o I find the restaurant menu? Did I click on the wrong thing? Etc etc. Much better just to title it “Menu” then add text if take away and dine-in differ. Regards Graham Cook www.uaoz.com
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Hello Thanks for the input... >IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a minute). Definitely not a connection issue >as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when >rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately. Thanks Jon. I thought I was going nuts. I have had a shot of the site on clients Mac and it is IE he is using. It does take over a minute to render the code on each page! >IE5.2/Mac: not present Any ideas why these don't display? I don't have a Mac here?!?!? Code validates and seems OK to me? Am I just missing something obvious? Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design & usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN "New technology, old fashioned service" ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
>What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before: >" >Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htm >Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in >sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or >Firefox ;-) Will give it a shot. Thanks E. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Hi, If you tell your client to visit www.msn.com with his Mac IE5.2 browser then he'll get the message that his browser is out of date and that he should change it to another browser like FireFox or Safari. So even Microsoft tells Macusers to change to another browser than Internet Explorer. I think that's a good arguement. Maybe your client would accept a message asking the user to change to a newer browser which supports webstandard? Personally I think we should design for all browsers on all platforms, but when even the creators of IE (Microsoft) tells the audience to change to another one it's time for us to forget about IE for Mac. Regards Vincent Hasselgård On 11/25/05, Web Man Walking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:>">Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htm>Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in >sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or>Firefox ;-)Will give it a shot.ThanksE.**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Title: Dragon Way (Site Check) Hi Ed, I don’t have a Mac so couldn’t look at the site. I did want to offer a comment, though, about point #1 (non-centered text). I viewed it on a variety of browsers on PC. Technically, I guess, the client is correct: the text isn’t centerd. The entire image is centered in the window. Since the logo on the left is a drawing, the actual text – Dragon Way – is visually off to the right. And because of the color difference between logo and text, the text part seems (to me) to be heavier and draws my eye more, so it isn’t ‘centered.’ I’d check that out with the client before pulling much hair out over it :-) Of course, if he means it’s appearing flush left or right, that would be another issue. But as someone else already said, you’d know that. I won’t comment further on the rest of the site since you already said it’s working great in the FF and IE; it is here, too. (And in Op and NS). Generally, I like the site. It’s well built and has a nice fresh feel to it. HTH, Bil Scheider Hello I have developed a site for a client and all seems fine, compliant, etc. works ace in IE and FF. I don’t have a MAC and client is complaining of: 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred 2. Homepage - No logo showing 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing 4. Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.) 5. Slow Can anyone help, take a quick look for me? This is my first post after lurking for a while :-) http://test.dragon-way.com/ Any other comments would be ace. Thank you. Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design & usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN "New technology, old fashioned service"
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
On 11/25/05 12:45 AM "Web Man Walking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out: > I don¹t have a MAC I do. And it's "Mac", not "MAC". "Mac" is short for "Macintosh". > 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred Seems okay in Safari. > 2. Homepage - No logo showing If that's the green, phallic sort of thing, seems okay in Safari. > 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing Yeah, there's no top bar in Safari. > 5. Slow Slowness wouldn't be OS dependent. Slowness would be bandwidth or server dependent, or possibly too-big-of-graphics dependent, but those would affect all platforms. You probably know that. :-) I didn't find the site "slow" in Safari on my Mac, fwiw. Hth Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Lea de Groot wrote: > On 26/11/2005, at 1:25 PM, Mark Harris wrote: > > I only started using a Mac on OSX so I didn't know that. Will > > Firefox run on OS9? > Good question. > http://www.mozilla.org/download.html says: > "Looking for software for Mac OS 9? > Due to the lack of developer interest, build machines, compilers and > testing resources, the last Mozilla.org Mac OS 9 build is Mozilla > 1.2.1. " > I don't know how old that is, but its obviously not the current one! http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.2.1/ says 2 years. -- "I can do all things through Him who gives me strength." Philippians 4:13 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
On 26/11/2005, at 1:25 PM, Mark Harris wrote: I only started using a Mac on OSX so I didn't know that. Will Firefox run on OS9? Good question. http://www.mozilla.org/download.html says: "Looking for software for Mac OS 9? Due to the lack of developer interest, build machines, compilers and testing resources, the last Mozilla.org Mac OS 9 build is Mozilla 1.2.1. " I don't know how old that is, but its obviously not the current one! warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Lea de Groot wrote: On 25/11/2005, at 9:29 PM, Mark Harris wrote: Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or Firefox ;-) No, IE5.2 is the browser of choice for OS9 (and I assume lower! :( ) users. I don't think they have much of an alternative. Of course, the numbers are probably getting pretty low now... Good point. I only started using a Mac on OSX so I didn't know that. Will Firefox run on OS9? mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
On 25/11/2005, at 9:29 PM, Mark Harris wrote: Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or Firefox ;-) No, IE5.2 is the browser of choice for OS9 (and I assume lower! :( ) users. I don't think they have much of an alternative. Of course, the numbers are probably getting pretty low now... warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
All sounds good. Spec does mention IE/FF but client not the best English speaker and not too attentive to details :-) Now I have some facts I can back up my points when we meet to discuss. Thanks for all your help. I hope I can repay the favour one day. E. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Tan Sent: 25 November 2005 14:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check) Web Man Walking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Jon. I thought I was going nuts. I have had a shot of the site on > clients Mac and it is IE he is using. It does take over a minute to > render > the code on each page! yw Ed. Thought so. > Code > validates and seems OK to me? Am I just missing something obvious? To put it as gently as I can, yes: [1] Personally I put the user agents I design to in the job spec/quote so there re no misunderstandings later along the lines of, 'it doesn't look the sme in NN4 and FF'. [2] Consultation as to why supporting a certain agent is being depracated / depreciated if needed. E.g. Cost for extra work, audience use percentage etc. [3] Valid code doesn not mean the pages will look as you require in the browser. I'd suggest development in a standards compliant browser and cross-checking cross browser and platform _before_ showing the client in all other browsers as you go, rather than getting surprises at the end. OK that doesn't help you right now but as others have suggested, pointing out that the IE5.2- audience will make up (I'm guessing based on stats I monitor) <1% of the audience might help. The alterntive is (I assume not realistic) gettting a Mac, testing and re-writing your code. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Web Man Walking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks Jon. I thought I was going nuts. I have had a shot of the site on clients Mac and it is IE he is using. It does take over a minute to render the code on each page! yw Ed. Thought so. Code validates and seems OK to me? Am I just missing something obvious? To put it as gently as I can, yes: [1] Personally I put the user agents I design to in the job spec/quote so there re no misunderstandings later along the lines of, 'it doesn't look the sme in NN4 and FF'. [2] Consultation as to why supporting a certain agent is being depracated / depreciated if needed. E.g. Cost for extra work, audience use percentage etc. [3] Valid code doesn not mean the pages will look as you require in the browser. I'd suggest development in a standards compliant browser and cross-checking cross browser and platform _before_ showing the client in all other browsers as you go, rather than getting surprises at the end. OK that doesn't help you right now but as others have suggested, pointing out that the IE5.2- audience will make up (I'm guessing based on stats I monitor) <1% of the audience might help. The alterntive is (I assume not realistic) gettting a Mac, testing and re-writing your code. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Hi, If you tell your client to visit www.msn.com with his Mac IE5.2 browser then he'll get the message that his browser is out of date and that he should change it to another browser like FireFox or Safari. So even Microsoft tells Macusers to change to another browser than Internet Explorer. I think that's a good arguement. Maybe your client would accept a message asking the user to change to a newer browser which supports webstandard? Personally I think we should design for all browsers on all platforms, but when even the creators of IE (Microsoft) tells the audience to change to another one it's time for us to forget about IE for Mac. Regards Vincent Hasselgård On 11/25/05, Web Man Walking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before:>">Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htm>Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in >sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or>Firefox ;-)Will give it a shot.ThanksE.**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
>What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before: >" >Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? http://www.html-reference.com/META_name_MSSmartTagsPreventParsing.htm >Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in >sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or >Firefox ;-) Will give it a shot. Thanks E. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Web Man Walking wrote: IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a minute). Definitely not a connection issue as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately. Thanks Jon. I thought I was going nuts. I have had a shot of the site on clients Mac and it is IE he is using. It does take over a minute to render the code on each page! I didn't have slow loading on the pages. IE was just as fast as Safari and Firefox. What I didn't get on the opening page was the logo and link, just the dolls. Safari and FF worked fine. I checked it with Opera on XP and the dolls became a vertical list down the right hand side. Which would indicate something in the CSS, as it's an unordered list, but it's late on a Friday night here in NZ and I've been out to dinner, so sorry, I can't be more precise. IE5.2/Mac: not present Any ideas why these don't display? I don't have a Mac here?!?!? Code validates and seems OK to me? Am I just missing something obvious? They did for me, unless the same things are missing for FF and Safari Try validating the CSS as well as the code. I ran the front page through W3C and it validated both, but I got errors in CSS on the subsequent pages. What are you using as an editor? I noticed a meta I haven't seen before: " Does that indicate FrontPage or something MS-based? Point out to your client that IE5.2 is so flakey it might as well be in sanskrit and that and smart people using Macs will be using Safari or Firefox ;-) Cheers and HTH mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Hello Thanks for the input... >IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a minute). Definitely not a connection issue >as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when >rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately. Thanks Jon. I thought I was going nuts. I have had a shot of the site on clients Mac and it is IE he is using. It does take over a minute to render the code on each page! >IE5.2/Mac: not present Any ideas why these don't display? I don't have a Mac here?!?!? Code validates and seems OK to me? Am I just missing something obvious? Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design & usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN "New technology, old fashioned service" ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
Dragon Way (Site Check)Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:45 AM, Web Man Walking wrote: I don't have a MAC and client is complaining of: 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred Safari - exactly the same as FF/Win IE5.2/Mac: not present 2. Homepage - No logo showing Safari - exactly the same as FF/Win IE5.2/Mac: not present 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing If, 'top bar' = logo+deities/dolls menu then Safari 1.3.1: fine IE5.2/Mac: menu and logo masthead nudged flush with the top of the page and top border of the content hidden by the masthead/missing 4. Rest of site - dolls (same as 1.) see 3. 5. Slow Safari - fine IE5.2/Mac: Slow as hell (over a minute). Definitely not a connection issue as all other browsers are fine. Something is causing IE5.2 to struggle when rendering your code. Suggest they're using IE5.2/Mac to test unfortunately. Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dragon Way (Site Check)
On 11/25/05 12:45 AM "Web Man Walking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out: > I don¹t have a MAC I do. And it's "Mac", not "MAC". "Mac" is short for "Macintosh". > 1. Homepage - Text under dolls is not centred Seems okay in Safari. > 2. Homepage - No logo showing If that's the green, phallic sort of thing, seems okay in Safari. > 3. Rest of site - Top bar missing Yeah, there's no top bar in Safari. > 5. Slow Slowness wouldn't be OS dependent. Slowness would be bandwidth or server dependent, or possibly too-big-of-graphics dependent, but those would affect all platforms. You probably know that. :-) I didn't find the site "slow" in Safari on my Mac, fwiw. Hth Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
