Re: [wsjt-devel] New Release

[Tim Connolly (YHOO) via wsjt-devel]

Hey Chris, I've had something similar happen... Basically all stations fail to 
decode. 
Check your clock. Make sure NTP is synced. I have a Dell laptop that 
continuously slips so I force it to resync before I start pulling my hair out. 

73's Tim
ae5tc

> On Jul 1, 2018, at 1:22 PM, Chris Getman  wrote:
> 
> I’ll check and let you know the next time it happens.
>  
> Thanks
> Chris  -  N3PLM
>  
> From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:45 PM
> To: WSJT software development 
> Cc: Black Michael 
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] New Release
>  
> When that happens check if jt9.exe is still running.
>  
> De Mike W9MDB
>  
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 11:22 AM, Chris Getman
>> mailto:chris.getman...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Gary
>>  
>> Just thought I would let you know I have had this happen 3 or 4 times now.
>>  
>> Just since 1.9.1 the system just stops decoding even though the stations 
>> appear on the waterfall.
>>  
>> Nothing happening that  I can relate to this, it just happens once in a 
>> while.
>>  
>> It takes a complete shutdown reboot to correct this. A restart doesn't help.
>>  
>> I am Windows 10 release 1803, Signallink SL-1+ to an FT-847
>>  
>> Have you heard anything else about this issue ?
>> What might be causing it or any correction?
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Chris  -  N3PLM
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Gary McDuffie [mailto:mcduf...@ag0n.net ] 
>> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 12:50 PM
>> To: WSJT software development > >
>> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] New Release
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> > On Jun 4, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Chris Getman > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > After about 4 hours FT8 simply just stopped decoding.
>> > The waterfall display showed stations, but nothing decoded.
>>  
>> I had this happen a couple of versions back, but that was the only time.  If 
>> you aren’t operating but just in monitor mode continuously, does it do the 
>> same thing?  I monitor 24/7 except when storms are in the area and have not 
>> had a problem, even since the 1.9.1 version was released.  It’s pretty 
>> strange to have the waterfall showing signals, but all of a sudden nothing 
>> is appearing in the decoded windows, but I have see it so I know it does 
>> happen.  You are not the first to report this recently, but it sounds like 
>> it is kind of rare.
>>  
>> Gary - AG0N
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Re: [wsjt-devel] unsubscribe

[Neil Zampella]

To unsubscribe, copy and paste the URL that's listed at the bottom of 
this message thread.  You'll get a page that you will have to enter your 
email address in, then click on the UNSUBSCRIBE button.


Neil, KN3ILZ


On 7/2/2018 7:09 PM, John wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:04:04 +1000, Ed Stokes  wrote:


Thanks, Joe, I’ll try that next time.

73 Ed




On Jul 2, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Joe Taylor  wrote:

On 7/2/2018 10:13 AM, Ed Stokes wrote:

running 1.9.1 on a Mac Mini
generally double clicking on DX station works as expected: call 
sign changes and transmit is enabled.
sometimes, the software just keeps transmitting to the previous 
station.
It doesn’t  matter if you turn off enable or halt tx, the software 
just won’t change calls.

only known remedy: shut down WSJT-X and restart.
73, Ed
W1KOK


There's no need to shut down WSJT-X and restart.  If you want to 
change calls, first hit F4 to clear the DX Call and DX Grid boxes 
and message fields.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Tsutsumi Takehiko]

Grant,

I am thinking that it is reasonable interpretation to consider CQ message, i.e. 
“CQ, CQ EU, CQ NA, CQ AS…..” is our “paging message” or “congestion control 
message” to allow certain group to send their access message such as “KH1/KH7Z 
JA5AEA PM95” at access channel i.e. above 1,000Hz~4,000Hz. However, the power 
should be limited to the minimum power to be able to communicate at individual 
message exchange as I said. However, CQ period should not be fixed and it 
should be only transmitted when “QSO queue” is becoming empty. (I think  this 
type of information is described in FT8 DXpedition Mode User Guide)

Well, for JA wise, KH1/KH7Z is the first exposure to DX Pedition Mode without 
any trial opportunity, so, it is a fan to see the windows in WSJT-X and imagine 
what we should do next.

Yes, It may be the time to wait the chairperson’s summarization and for a 
while, we should  chase KH1/KH7Z last day operation. I am expecting they will 
expand their service at high and low bands.

Regards,

take

de JA5AEA

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


From: Grant Willis 
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 7:05:09 AM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

Everyone,

The thread hi-jacking has been interesting but time to bring it back to my 
original question perhaps please?

Take,

Yes – the problem with varying power is I might hear him CQ when he transmits 
with only one channel but when -14dB of power reduction results from 5 
responses I could loose him )and did do so several times). The CW and the power 
of the channels I am listening to of him calling everyone else needs to remain 
constant as an individual channel otherwise this wildly varying link budget 
just breaks contacts.

A worthy modification would be to resolve the varying individual channel power 
dilemma I feel. I would be interested in Joe and Steve’s thoughts on this?

Regards,
Grant VK5GR

P.S. The CQ calling is nice – and KH1/KH7Z could make better use of it and free 
text to control their pile more – but blocking people calling as proposed by 
others here until certain preconditions are met – based on my observations of 
the traffic patterns I don’t see it helping the situation at all.

From: Tsutsumi Takehiko [mailto:ja5...@outlook.com]
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2018 3:09 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

Grant,

Allow me to write my comment on your topic as I have same topic interest 
writing “FOX adaptive power control” in this thread.

Concerning your proposal, i.e.“to have the setting of number of channels vs the 
number of active channels maintain a constant PER CHANNEL TX power”

My comment is


  1.  When fox sets 5 slot mode and it activates 5 slots, the average power per 
channel is -20*LOG(5) dB=-14dB. This means about 20W per channel if fox uses 
500W linear.


  1.  When active channel is actually 1 slot, What does fox obtain the benefit 
to maintain link with a particular hound keeping 20W instead it can transmit 
500W?  Please keep in mind fox uses his channel to send his message to 
particular fox such as “VK5GR KH7Z -05”, “VK5GR RR73”. It is not the messages 
to me JA5AEA.



  1.  Instead,  I agree to keep CQ message to be fixed, i.e. 20W as this is a 
broad cast message. If fox sends 500W, it is disastrous. (KH1/KHZ may be 
confusing us and creating lengthy arguments by this high power CQ feature??)

Regards,

take

de JA5AEA

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Grant Willis 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:47:02 PM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Subject: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

Joe,

An observation if I may about expedition mode. I see with KH1/KH7Z that the 
number of Fox TX channels varies – I presume as they place more stations in the 
queue. As expected, the power per channel drops the more channels running so 
that the amplifiers can keep up. However, this has an unintended consequence 
perhaps of potentially breaking QSOs. A few times now I have started calling 
KH1/KH7Z on 20m when I am receiving them around -09 (but with pretty low 
S-meter  signal strength). Usually this is with 1-2 channels running on their 
downlink. If they go to 3 channels I can still receive but it falls to say -15. 
If they bring up channel 4 and 5 I loose them. There just isn’t the link budget 
left to receive them when the power is split between more than 3 channels in 
this example.

Now the issue is, if they answer me by adding the 4th channel – I wont hear 
them under those conditions. If I am part way through a QSO I can loose the 
RR73 for the same reason if they answer someone else on the 4th channel– simply 
because the link runs out of steam.

Now if I couldn’t hear them in the first place I wouldn’t have tried calling. 
In this case however, 

Re: [wsjt-devel] What happens when Hound does not receive RR73?

[John L. Broughton]

I'm not sure what good this would do. I exchanged reports with the 
operation twice on 17M and once on 20M. One of the 17M contacts did not 
result in the RR73, just an exchange of signal reports. Of course, that 
exchange did not end up in the Club Log, which means it was not a valid 
QSO.  So, I don't see what good logging a contact without the RR73 does.


The other two contacts did show up in the Club Log. Also, the fox never 
sent a CQ that I heard in any of the three times I had a full or partial 
contact. I was copying him with a decent signal. On the 17M contact, he 
called me after my call was sent five times. On 20M it was after eight 
times. Pretty nice for a rare one. I'm not sure how much putting my 
transmit frequency above 3,000 Hz helped, but I tend to think it did help.


I just hope I will be able to copy them loud enough on SSB for a 
contact, but so far, they have not been that strong when I m on the air.


73,

John, WB9VGJ

John L. Broughton
www.wb9vgj.us
wb9...@arrl.net
2silverhon...@gmail.com

On 7/2/2018 12:57 PM, David Tiller wrote:
At least with this current dxpedition, I suggest you at least 
tentatively log contacts as soon as you have received a report from 
the fox and have sent yours.


I had been trying to contact KH1/KH7Z on 20m but the only success I 
had were 2 'busted' sequences. I never saw a RR73 for either of them 
but lo and behold both tries were logged on their side.


On Jul 2, 2018, at 15:49, Joshua B Nass > wrote:


I let it run six attempts then I stop it. Since the RR73 is incoming 
from the Fox and I have all the details I need for entry into my log, 
I log it, then wait for the Club Log verification.  If I am in the 
fox log on the that band I will upload my log.


On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 3:07 AM, Charles Suckling 
> wrote:


Hi All

20m conditions were a bit better today and I finally managed to
work Baker with 100W, lots of feeder loss and a sloping dipole.

The problem I had was, after receiving my report from KH7Z, I
failed to receive RR73.  Thanks to Bill’s advice to start over
again (TX1 message), on the 4^th QSO attempt (this time with
G4KGC in the shack)  I finally got my RR73.  Within about 5
sequences they came back again with a report again, and QSO
attempts proceeded normally.

Decoding was reasonably reliable at the time.  It seems  they did
not receive my TX3 message, hence did not send RR73, rather than
me not decoding the RR73.

What became apparent was that under these circumstances my TX
freq was shifted three times, then stuck on the final frequency
and transmissions would have continued at infinitum:

I guess this is what is expected as the User guide para 14 says:



Here is an example of one of the failed attempts:

083545 Tx 3056 ~ KH7Z G3WDG IO92

083630 -13 -0.5 390 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083645 Tx 390 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-13

083700 -16 -0.6 389 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083715 Tx 389 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-16

083730 -14 -0.6 330 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083745 Tx 330 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083815 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083845 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083915 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083945 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

084015 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

084045 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

After moving to 630 it stayed there and continued transmitting
until I intervened, thinking that the QSO had failed and I was
unnecessarily causing QRM.

Should I have waited longer for Fox to respond?

In the situation where hounds to not receive their  RR73,
 presumably  a wall of QRM below 1000 develops for Fox making it
more difficult for QSOs to complete?  I saw other stations in the
same fix as I was, repeating their TX3 messages for many periods.

73

Charlie




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[wsjt-devel] Help WSJT-X FT857D NAVIGATOR Modem

[Charles Otnott via wsjt-devel]

List Members,

I have done extensive internet searches for
my station to make it operational with the
following hardware/software, but no search
has found an answer. Hopefully this list can
help.
I am using the WSJT-X v1.9.1, a Yeasu FT-857D,
a Navigator modem, Navigator cable set, Dell
laptop 3.0 Ghz, 8Gb ram, on board sound card,
Windows 7.
All software/computer works with my IC-7600
without the Navigator.

Please reply off list.

73 & Best DX

Charlie
WD5BJT

See September 2006 CQ Magazine for a published work.
www.qsl.net/wd5bjt

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[wsjt-devel] Tx/Rx

[Bill Turner via wsjt-devel]

On the Main screen, the Tx<---Rx and Rx<---Tx arrows seem backwards.  Set 
Tx=1810 and Rx=1409, press Rx<---Tx and you get both Tx and Rx at 1810.
I'm reading Rx<---Tx as change the Tx frequency to the Rx frequency, move 1810 
to 1409 in this example.
WSJT-X 1.9.1 r8747 the GA release. Normal set up not Hound.

What am I missing?
Bill Turner, W4WNT
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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[Bill Somerville]

On 03/07/2018 00:18, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:

---
WSJT-X
---
Rig failure
---
Hamlib error: Invalid configuration while opening connection to rig
---
OK
---


Hi OM,

there is something inconsistent in your serial port settings in the 
WSJT-X "Settings->Radio" panel. If you tell us what settings you have we 
can probably tell you what is wrong.


73
Bill
G4WJS.


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[wsjt-devel] unsubscribe

[John]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:04:04 +1000, Ed Stokes  wrote:


Thanks, Joe, I’ll try that next time.

73 Ed




On Jul 2, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Joe Taylor  wrote:

On 7/2/2018 10:13 AM, Ed Stokes wrote:

running 1.9.1 on a Mac Mini
generally double clicking on DX station works as expected:  call sign  
changes and transmit is enabled.
sometimes, the software just keeps transmitting to the previous  
station.
It doesn’t  matter if you turn off enable or halt tx, the software  
just won’t change calls.

only known remedy: shut down WSJT-X and restart.
73, Ed
W1KOK


There's no need to shut down WSJT-X and restart.  If you want to change  
calls, first hit F4 to clear the DX Call and DX Grid boxes and message  
fields.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

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   73, John de VK2XGJ
Living on this planet called Earth is difficult,
but at least I get one free trip around the Sun every year.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[kb3mi]

here it is

 Bill Somerville  wrote: 
> On 02/07/2018 23:26, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:
> > the error I get is hamlib error.
> 
> OM,
> 
> that is not the full error message. You can grab the full message by 
> hitting CTRL+C while the error message box has focus, the message text 
> is copied to the clipboard so you can easily paste it into a reply to this.
> 
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
> 
> 
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---
WSJT-X
---
Rig failure
---
Hamlib error: Invalid configuration while opening connection to rig
---
OK   
---
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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[Morris Wideman via wsjt-devel]

 To the fellow trying to use the FTDX3000 download the software Omnirig it has 
the FTDX3000 as a rig choice then in the setup of wsjtx  select Omnirig. I used 
similar setup with a Flex 3000 and it worked with it. Hope your able to get 
things going. 73 Morris WA4MIT 
On Monday, July 2, 2018, 5:54:28 PM CDT, Bill Somerville 
 wrote:  
 
 On 02/07/2018 23:26, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:
> the error I get is hamlib error.

OM,

that is not the full error message. You can grab the full message by 
hitting CTRL+C while the error message box has focus, the message text 
is copied to the clipboard so you can easily paste it into a reply to this.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Double click on DX station fails

[Ed Stokes]

Thanks, Joe, I’ll try that next time.

73 Ed



> On Jul 2, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Joe Taylor  wrote:
> 
> On 7/2/2018 10:13 AM, Ed Stokes wrote:
>> running 1.9.1 on a Mac Mini
>> generally double clicking on DX station works as expected:  call sign 
>> changes and transmit is enabled.
>> sometimes, the software just keeps transmitting to the previous station.
>> It doesn’t  matter if you turn off enable or halt tx, the software just 
>> won’t change calls.
>> only known remedy: shut down WSJT-X and restart.
>> 73, Ed
>> W1KOK
> 
> There's no need to shut down WSJT-X and restart.  If you want to change 
> calls, first hit F4 to clear the DX Call and DX Grid boxes and message fields.
> 
>   -- 73, Joe, K1JT
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[Bill Somerville]

On 02/07/2018 23:26, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:

the error I get is hamlib error.


OM,

that is not the full error message. You can grab the full message by 
hitting CTRL+C while the error message box has focus, the message text 
is copied to the clipboard so you can easily paste it into a reply to this.


73
Bill
G4WJS.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[kb3mi]

  sorry I was short with you my mail came back undeliverable probably because I 
sent it the same time i tried to join the group the yahoo group referred me 
here. the error I get is hamlib error. I even belong to yaesu 3000 users group 
no help there that I could find. someone must be using the same rig as me and 
just tell me which box I haven't clicked


 Tom Melvin  wrote: 
> Hi   OM
> 
> It was not a wise crack answer - WHAT ERROR ARE YOU GETTING ?
> 
> Have scanned the mail for 6 months for your call - it is not there - so since 
> I can’t find your earlier mail perhaps others as may have missed your mail.
> 
> There is some info on the general wsjt mailing list at:
> 
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/wsjtgroup/conversations/topics/30198
> 
> That relates to the settings of the 1200 v 3000 - all I can offer without 
> more details.
> 
> Tom
> GM8MJV
> 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2018, at 16:09,   wrote:
> 
> > well my mail must have gotten lost. and wisecrack answers like can't read 
> > my mind turn me off. I have the latest version 1.9.1 as far as I know run 
> > windows 10 on a hp I-5 and run AC log with CAT control mmty direct fsk and 
> > a multitude of other digital modes. as I said I need some parameters for my 
> > radio if you can't help say so don't insult me I've been on digital modes 
> > over 25 years!!!
> > 
> >  Tom Melvin  wrote: 
> >> See the details at the bottom of every mail 
> >> 
>  wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
> >> 
> >> 
> >> It allows you to manage  your subscriptions yourself - no-one else can do 
> >> it.
> >> 
> >> It may be worthwhile (have checked and you have never posted with that 
> >> call before) to 
> >> 
> >> a) Tell us the error message you get
> >> b) Which version of wsjt-x had you used in the past.
> >> c) How about what OS and version
> >> d) What have you tried so far.
> >> 
> >> I personally have never used the Yaesu 3000 or 5000 - so no idea about 
> >> that side.
> >> 
> >> I do know if you do give people the chance to see what the problem is you 
> >> will have a better chance at getting a response that just assuming someone 
> >> will have miraculously read your mind and posted the answer.
> >> 
> >> Tom
> >> GM8MJV
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 2 Jul 2018, at 14:23, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I originally joined this group to get the exact parameters for my yaesu 
> >>> 3000. first of all it isn't listed in the drop down menu, I tried using 
> >>> the 5000 instead and set everything I could find and it came back error 
> >>> so since I can't seem to get this information and all the mails I see are 
> >>> not of interest to me please drop me from the group. I have been wiring 
> >>> computers to my radios since the mid 90's used almost every digital mode 
> >>> out there and never had trouble accessing software before ft8 was fine 
> >>> til you added the dxpedition mode then I could not get it to work. I've 
> >>> thoroughly read all the instructions I'm not a dummy and still can't get 
> >>> CAT control to my 3000. I will continue to use it as before through my 
> >>> rigblaster but I give up on dxpedition mode. please remove me from future 
> >>> mailings. 
> >>> 
> >>>  de KB3MI  @ kb...@neo.rr.com
> >>> 
> >>> --
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> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
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> >> 
> >> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Grant Willis]

Everyone,

 

The thread hi-jacking has been interesting but time to bring it back to my
original question perhaps please?

 

Take,

 

Yes - the problem with varying power is I might hear him CQ when he
transmits with only one channel but when -14dB of power reduction results
from 5 responses I could loose him )and did do so several times). The CW and
the power of the channels I am listening to of him calling everyone else
needs to remain constant as an individual channel otherwise this wildly
varying link budget just breaks contacts.

 

A worthy modification would be to resolve the varying individual channel
power dilemma I feel. I would be interested in Joe and Steve's thoughts on
this?

 

Regards,

Grant VK5GR

 

P.S. The CQ calling is nice - and KH1/KH7Z could make better use of it and
free text to control their pile more - but blocking people calling as
proposed by others here until certain preconditions are met - based on my
observations of the traffic patterns I don't see it helping the situation at
all. 

 

From: Tsutsumi Takehiko [mailto:ja5...@outlook.com] 
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2018 3:09 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

 

Grant,

 

Allow me to write my comment on your topic as I have same topic interest
writing "FOX adaptive power control" in this thread.

 

Concerning your proposal, i.e."to have the setting of number of channels vs
the number of active channels maintain a constant PER CHANNEL TX power"

 

My comment is 

 

1.  When fox sets 5 slot mode and it activates 5 slots, the average
power per channel is -20*LOG(5) dB=-14dB. This means about 20W per channel
if fox uses 500W linear.

 

2.  When active channel is actually 1 slot, What does fox obtain the
benefit to maintain link with a particular hound keeping 20W instead it can
transmit 500W?  Please keep in mind fox uses his channel to send his message
to particular fox such as "VK5GR KH7Z -05", "VK5GR RR73". It is not the
messages to me JA5AEA.

 

3.  Instead,  I agree to keep CQ message to be fixed, i.e. 20W as this
is a broad cast message. If fox sends 500W, it is disastrous. (KH1/KHZ may
be confusing us and creating lengthy arguments by this high power CQ
feature??)

 

Regards,

 

take

 

de JA5AEA

 

Sent from Mail   for Windows
10

 

 

  _  

From: Grant Willis 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:47:02 PM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Subject: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode 

 

Joe,

 

An observation if I may about expedition mode. I see with KH1/KH7Z that the
number of Fox TX channels varies - I presume as they place more stations in
the queue. As expected, the power per channel drops the more channels
running so that the amplifiers can keep up. However, this has an unintended
consequence perhaps of potentially breaking QSOs. A few times now I have
started calling KH1/KH7Z on 20m when I am receiving them around -09 (but
with pretty low S-meter  signal strength). Usually this is with 1-2 channels
running on their downlink. If they go to 3 channels I can still receive but
it falls to say -15. If they bring up channel 4 and 5 I loose them. There
just isn't the link budget left to receive them when the power is split
between more than 3 channels in this example.

 

Now the issue is, if they answer me by adding the 4th channel - I wont hear
them under those conditions. If I am part way through a QSO I can loose the
RR73 for the same reason if they answer someone else on the 4th channel-
simply because the link runs out of steam.

 

Now if I couldn't hear them in the first place I wouldn't have tried
calling. In this case however, they can disappear under load effectively and
I loose them mid QSO.

 

For future consideration perhaps is to have the setting of number of
channels vs the number of active channels maintain a constant PER CHANNEL TX
power rather than the variable situation we have now. Ie I enable my fox
station to run say 4 channels, but only reply on 1 channel, then the output
power should be the equivalent of the power that would be in that channel if
all 4 were in fact on air but aren't. At least that way I have a constant
link budget I am working with on my comms channel with the fox station
rather than one that can have them drastically cut power mid QSO without
reference to the conditions on the path I am working them via.

 

If what I am describing is not how it is supposed to work already then there
is another factor at work somewhere in the chain to be explored. I would be
happy to discuss this further and use the KH1/KH7Z expedition to observe and
learn more about how the multi-channel nature of the mode works.

 

Regards,

Grant VK5GR

 

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Daniel Ekman]

In hound mode, would it be a good idea to use another watchdog timer to
trigger on received messages from the DX call, perhaps started with a 5 min
period (after first call) and reset to a longer timeout (15min?) on decoded
messages from the DX ? Additional reset by a longer idle period (say
30-60min ?). Of course on receiving a reply to your call you'll be able to
respond, so this should not mess too much with the usual weak signal way of
communication.
This way, you would be able to call initially but further calling needs
decoded messages. Sure it would be reset by a program restart, but perhaps
deter the casual blind caller.
These special functions would be specific to hound mode, also perhaps not
used on VHF and up, if fox/hound ever get popular there.

In fox mode, I can see that blocking seemingly non responding calls can
catch a bunch of serious operators if a QRM station decides to send on top
of the DX and mess with the pileup. Something like this likely needs some
selectable timeout.

Very nice to see this mode activated with dedicated stations on
expeditions, it clearly demonstrates the big potential of this great mode.
73's and happy DX'ing
Daniel SA2KNG
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Re: [wsjt-devel] What happens when Hound does not receive RR73?

[David Tiller]

At least with this current dxpedition, I suggest you at least tentatively log 
contacts as soon as you have received a report from the fox and have sent yours.

I had been trying to contact KH1/KH7Z on 20m but the only success I had were 2 
'busted' sequences. I never saw a RR73 for either of them but lo and behold 
both tries were logged on their side.

On Jul 2, 2018, at 15:49, Joshua B Nass 
mailto:josh.n...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I let it run six attempts then I stop it.  Since the RR73 is incoming from the 
Fox and I have all the details I need for entry into my log, I log it, then 
wait for the Club Log verification.  If I am in the fox log on the that band I 
will upload my log.

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 3:07 AM, Charles Suckling 
mailto:char...@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk>>
 wrote:
Hi All

20m conditions were a bit better today and I finally managed to work Baker with 
100W, lots of feeder loss and a sloping dipole.

The problem I had was, after receiving my report from KH7Z, I failed to receive 
RR73.  Thanks to Bill’s advice to start over again (TX1 message), on the 4th 
QSO attempt (this time with G4KGC in the shack)  I finally got my RR73.  Within 
about 5 sequences they came back again with a report again, and QSO attempts 
proceeded normally.

Decoding was reasonably reliable at the time.  It seems  they did not receive 
my TX3 message, hence did not send RR73, rather than me not decoding the RR73.

What became apparent was that under these circumstances my TX freq was shifted 
three times, then stuck on the final frequency and transmissions would have 
continued at infinitum:

I guess this is what is expected as the User guide para 14 says:



Here is an example of one of the failed attempts:


083545 Tx 3056 ~ KH7Z G3WDG IO92

083630 -13 -0.5 390 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083645 Tx 390 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-13

083700 -16 -0.6 389 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083715 Tx 389 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-16

083730 -14 -0.6 330 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083745 Tx 330 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083815 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083845 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083915 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

083945 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

084015 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
084045 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

After moving to 630 it stayed there and continued transmitting until I 
intervened, thinking that the QSO had failed and I was unnecessarily causing 
QRM.

Should I have waited longer for Fox to respond?

In the situation where hounds to not receive their  RR73,  presumably  a wall 
of QRM below 1000 develops for Fox making it more difficult for QSOs to 
complete?  I saw other stations in the same fix as I was, repeating their TX3 
messages for many periods.

73

Charlie






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Re: [wsjt-devel] What happens when Hound does not receive RR73?

[Joshua B Nass]

I let it run six attempts then I stop it.  Since the RR73 is incoming from
the Fox and I have all the details I need for entry into my log, I log it,
then wait for the Club Log verification.  If I am in the fox log on the
that band I will upload my log.

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 3:07 AM, Charles Suckling <
char...@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi All
>
>
>
> 20m conditions were a bit better today and I finally managed to work Baker
> with 100W, lots of feeder loss and a sloping dipole.
>
>
>
> The problem I had was, after receiving my report from KH7Z, I failed to
> receive RR73.  Thanks to Bill’s advice to start over again (TX1 message),
> on the 4th QSO attempt (this time with G4KGC in the shack)  I finally got
> my RR73.  Within about 5 sequences they came back again with a report
> again, and QSO attempts proceeded normally.
>
>
>
> Decoding was reasonably reliable at the time.  It seems  they did not
> receive my TX3 message, hence did not send RR73, rather than me not
> decoding the RR73.
>
>
>
> What became apparent was that under these circumstances my TX freq was
> shifted three times, then stuck on the final frequency and transmissions
> would have continued at infinitum:
>
>
>
> I guess this is what is expected as the User guide para 14 says:
>
>
>
>
>
> Here is an example of one of the failed attempts:
>
>
>
> 083545 Tx 3056 ~ KH7Z G3WDG IO92
>
> 083630 -13 -0.5 390 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15
>
> 083645 Tx 390 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-13
>
> 083700 -16 -0.6 389 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15
>
> 083715 Tx 389 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-16
>
> 083730 -14 -0.6 330 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15
>
> 083745 Tx 330 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 083815 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 083845 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 083915 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 083945 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 084015 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
> 084045 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14
>
>
>
> After moving to 630 it stayed there and continued transmitting until I
> intervened, thinking that the QSO had failed and I was unnecessarily
> causing QRM.
>
>
>
> Should I have waited longer for Fox to respond?
>
>
>
> In the situation where hounds to not receive their  RR73,  presumably  a
> wall of QRM below 1000 develops for Fox making it more difficult for QSOs
> to complete?  I saw other stations in the same fix as I was, repeating
> their TX3 messages for many periods.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Mark Spencer]

I've been watching them (KH1/KH7Z) work various stations on 14 Mhz for the
last 30 Minutes or so.  I have yet to see a single CQ from them.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Bill Turner via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I have seen kh7z answering stations on 20m last night at -7 to -20
> strength.  Only saw one CQ at 11pm local in NC.
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Russ
>  wrote:
> 
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>
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

In the case you give as long as you have the prior decode of them you would 
just double-click it and that solves the problem as you have actually received 
them before.
I assume you would still have them in your Band Activity window.

de Mike W9MDB
 

On Monday, July 2, 2018, 8:24:55 AM CDT, Russ  wrote:  
 
 
Hello all.  Maybe I am sticking my nose where it does not belong, because I 
have not used or studied this fox/hound business.  But when I see many stations 
advocating to forcefully block calling a station “blind”, I have to think that 
some care is needed.  I have a lot of experience with FT8 on six meters and 
there at least two conditions that could be considered calling blind, yet are 
justified (I think) and do result in good QSO’s.

  

1.   I was in a qso and observed a station I wanted to work on another 
frequency.  When I finish my qso I do not hear him anymore but I do know where 
he was.  So I start calling him (either on his frequency or elsewhere).  Very 
often he will come back to me and we have a good qso.  However the software 
does not recognize that I have heard him before.  This is evident because even 
though I may have seen his grid square, the software does not have it when I go 
to log the qso.  This then is calling blind as far as the software is 
concerned.  If the same situation can exist with a fox then preventing it would 
be bad.

2.   QSB.  In this case I start out calling a station that I was copying.  Then 
he fades out before completion (maybe even before I hear an answer).  I 
continue calling him “blind” and in a few minutes he fades back in again, 
calling me.  And many times I have called for 5 or 6 sequences and then 
stopped, only to have him pop up suddenly, giving me a report.

  

So these are two situations that should not be prevented as they result in good 
qso’s.  I agree that if I were to continue calling for 10 minutes without 
hearing anything more, then I would be causing unnecessary QRM.  Maybe the 
software could have an automatic stop if the fox is calling the same station, 
with the same message, repeatedly for a long time, and without decoding any 
messages from the hound.

  

If these situations cannot arise with the fox/hound situation then please 
forgive me for “sticking my nose in”.

  

73 all, Russ K2TXB

  

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 11:39 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

  

I foolishly thought that the commit message meant what it said.  It should have 
added "when the "More CQs box is checked".

  

So the only way to solve all the lids calling blind is to block them until they 
receive the DX station at least once (CQ or any other message).  This will 
benefit both sides of the situation.  Less QRM from all the lids and severely 
reduced blind callers causing timeouts.

  

I'm going to submit a patch to do just this.  I've not heard a single argument 
that this is a bad idea.  The only thing even possibly useful is if the 
DXpedition used these types of callers to see if the band was open which I 
doubt.

  

de Mike W9MDB

  

  

  

  

On Sunday, July 1, 2018, 7:52:05 PM CDT, David Fisher  
wrote: 

  

  

That ain’t happening at KH1/KH7X.  Not on 20M anyway.

 

Dave / NX6D

 

 

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:39:05 AM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode 

 

  

WSJT-X has already been changed where Fox transmits CQ every 5 transmissions 
now.

If you don't see it then you shouldn't be calling.

  

>From the git log:

  

In DXpedition mode, enforce a Fox CQ at least every 5 transmissions.

  

  

  

On Saturday, June 30, 2018, 10:10:09 AM CDT, Charles Suckling 
 wrote: 

  

  

Hi Mike

 

The problem with needing to see a CQ is that the dxpedition may rarely transmit 
a CQ (some folks were reporting this yesterday).  Then, stations were working 
them by just calling.  Majority were on the correct period, most were above 
1000Hz.  From what I could see here about 90% of hounds were calling correctly. 
 Whether they could hear the dxpedition is another matter.

 

Earlier this afternoon there was a run of CQ from them (or someone pretending 
to be them) about 10dB stronger than they are here most of the time (-18 to 
-20).  During this spell there seemed to be no QSOs.

 

Charlie

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: 30 June 2018 15:15
To: ' WSJT software development '
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

 

I have some observations too.

 

#1 Tons of ops calling KH7Z when they can't see them.  I assume this only 
causes problems as it's quite possible KH7Z with their honker antennas and can 
see them but not the other way round.  So KH7Z will put them in the queue 

Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[Tom Melvin]

Hi   OM

It was not a wise crack answer - WHAT ERROR ARE YOU GETTING ?

Have scanned the mail for 6 months for your call - it is not there - so since I 
can’t find your earlier mail perhaps others as may have missed your mail.

There is some info on the general wsjt mailing list at:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/wsjtgroup/conversations/topics/30198

That relates to the settings of the 1200 v 3000 - all I can offer without more 
details.

Tom
GM8MJV



On 2 Jul 2018, at 16:09,   wrote:

> well my mail must have gotten lost. and wisecrack answers like can't read my 
> mind turn me off. I have the latest version 1.9.1 as far as I know run 
> windows 10 on a hp I-5 and run AC log with CAT control mmty direct fsk and a 
> multitude of other digital modes. as I said I need some parameters for my 
> radio if you can't help say so don't insult me I've been on digital modes 
> over 25 years!!!
> 
>  Tom Melvin  wrote: 
>> See the details at the bottom of every mail 
>> 
 wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>> 
>> 
>> It allows you to manage  your subscriptions yourself - no-one else can do it.
>> 
>> It may be worthwhile (have checked and you have never posted with that call 
>> before) to 
>> 
>> a) Tell us the error message you get
>> b) Which version of wsjt-x had you used in the past.
>> c) How about what OS and version
>> d) What have you tried so far.
>> 
>> I personally have never used the Yaesu 3000 or 5000 - so no idea about that 
>> side.
>> 
>> I do know if you do give people the chance to see what the problem is you 
>> will have a better chance at getting a response that just assuming someone 
>> will have miraculously read your mind and posted the answer.
>> 
>> Tom
>> GM8MJV
>> 
>> 
>> On 2 Jul 2018, at 14:23, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I originally joined this group to get the exact parameters for my yaesu 
>>> 3000. first of all it isn't listed in the drop down menu, I tried using the 
>>> 5000 instead and set everything I could find and it came back error so 
>>> since I can't seem to get this information and all the mails I see are not 
>>> of interest to me please drop me from the group. I have been wiring 
>>> computers to my radios since the mid 90's used almost every digital mode 
>>> out there and never had trouble accessing software before ft8 was fine til 
>>> you added the dxpedition mode then I could not get it to work. I've 
>>> thoroughly read all the instructions I'm not a dummy and still can't get 
>>> CAT control to my 3000. I will continue to use it as before through my 
>>> rigblaster but I give up on dxpedition mode. please remove me from future 
>>> mailings. 
>>> 
>>>  de KB3MI  @ kb...@neo.rr.com
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Double click on DX station fails

[Joe Taylor]

On 7/2/2018 10:13 AM, Ed Stokes wrote:

running 1.9.1 on a Mac Mini

generally double clicking on DX station works as expected:  call sign changes 
and transmit is enabled.

sometimes, the software just keeps transmitting to the previous station.

It doesn’t  matter if you turn off enable or halt tx, the software just won’t 
change calls.

only known remedy: shut down WSJT-X and restart.

73, Ed
W1KOK


There's no need to shut down WSJT-X and restart.  If you want to change 
calls, first hit F4 to clear the DX Call and DX Grid boxes and message 
fields.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT

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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[kb3mi]

well my mail must have gotten lost. and wisecrack answers like can't read my 
mind turn me off. I have the latest version 1.9.1 as far as I know run windows 
10 on a hp I-5 and run AC log with CAT control mmty direct fsk and a multitude 
of other digital modes. as I said I need some parameters for my radio if you 
can't help say so don't insult me I've been on digital modes over 25 years!!!

 Tom Melvin  wrote: 
> See the details at the bottom of every mail 
> 
> >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
> 
> 
> It allows you to manage  your subscriptions yourself - no-one else can do it.
> 
> It may be worthwhile (have checked and you have never posted with that call 
> before) to 
> 
> a) Tell us the error message you get
> b) Which version of wsjt-x had you used in the past.
> c) How about what OS and version
> d) What have you tried so far.
> 
> I personally have never used the Yaesu 3000 or 5000 - so no idea about that 
> side.
> 
> I do know if you do give people the chance to see what the problem is you 
> will have a better chance at getting a response that just assuming someone 
> will have miraculously read your mind and posted the answer.
> 
> Tom
> GM8MJV
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2018, at 14:23, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:
> 
> > I originally joined this group to get the exact parameters for my yaesu 
> > 3000. first of all it isn't listed in the drop down menu, I tried using the 
> > 5000 instead and set everything I could find and it came back error so 
> > since I can't seem to get this information and all the mails I see are not 
> > of interest to me please drop me from the group. I have been wiring 
> > computers to my radios since the mid 90's used almost every digital mode 
> > out there and never had trouble accessing software before ft8 was fine til 
> > you added the dxpedition mode then I could not get it to work. I've 
> > thoroughly read all the instructions I'm not a dummy and still can't get 
> > CAT control to my 3000. I will continue to use it as before through my 
> > rigblaster but I give up on dxpedition mode. please remove me from future 
> > mailings. 
> > 
> >   de KB3MI  @ kb...@neo.rr.com
> > 
> > --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
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> 
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Bill Turner via wsjt-devel]

I have seen kh7z answering stations on 20m last night at -7 to -20 strength.  
Only saw one CQ at 11pm local in NC.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Russ wrote:   
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Re: [wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[Tom Melvin]

See the details at the bottom of every mail 

>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel


It allows you to manage  your subscriptions yourself - no-one else can do it.

It may be worthwhile (have checked and you have never posted with that call 
before) to 

a) Tell us the error message you get
b) Which version of wsjt-x had you used in the past.
c) How about what OS and version
d) What have you tried so far.

I personally have never used the Yaesu 3000 or 5000 - so no idea about that 
side.

I do know if you do give people the chance to see what the problem is you will 
have a better chance at getting a response that just assuming someone will have 
miraculously read your mind and posted the answer.

Tom
GM8MJV


On 2 Jul 2018, at 14:23, kb...@neo.rr.com wrote:

> I originally joined this group to get the exact parameters for my yaesu 3000. 
> first of all it isn't listed in the drop down menu, I tried using the 5000 
> instead and set everything I could find and it came back error so since I 
> can't seem to get this information and all the mails I see are not of 
> interest to me please drop me from the group. I have been wiring computers to 
> my radios since the mid 90's used almost every digital mode out there and 
> never had trouble accessing software before ft8 was fine til you added the 
> dxpedition mode then I could not get it to work. I've thoroughly read all the 
> instructions I'm not a dummy and still can't get CAT control to my 3000. I 
> will continue to use it as before through my rigblaster but I give up on 
> dxpedition mode. please remove me from future mailings. 
> 
>   de KB3MI  @ kb...@neo.rr.com
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
> 


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Double click on DX station fails

[Ed Stokes]

running 1.9.1 on a Mac Mini

generally double clicking on DX station works as expected:  call sign changes 
and transmit is enabled.

sometimes, the software just keeps transmitting to the previous station.

It doesn’t  matter if you turn off enable or halt tx, the software just won’t 
change calls.

only known remedy: shut down WSJT-X and restart.

73, Ed
W1KOK


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[wsjt-devel] yaesu ftdx 3000 parameters

[kb3mi]

I originally joined this group to get the exact parameters for my yaesu 3000. 
first of all it isn't listed in the drop down menu, I tried using the 5000 
instead and set everything I could find and it came back error so since I can't 
seem to get this information and all the mails I see are not of interest to me 
please drop me from the group. I have been wiring computers to my radios since 
the mid 90's used almost every digital mode out there and never had trouble 
accessing software before ft8 was fine til you added the dxpedition mode then I 
could not get it to work. I've thoroughly read all the instructions I'm not a 
dummy and still can't get CAT control to my 3000. I will continue to use it as 
before through my rigblaster but I give up on dxpedition mode. please remove me 
from future mailings. 

   de KB3MI  @ kb...@neo.rr.com

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Russ]

Hello all.  Maybe I am sticking my nose where it does not belong, because I 
have not used or studied this fox/hound business.  But when I see many stations 
advocating to forcefully block calling a station “blind”, I have to think that 
some care is needed.  I have a lot of experience with FT8 on six meters and 
there at least two conditions that could be considered calling blind, yet are 
justified (I think) and do result in good QSO’s.
 
1.   I was in a qso and observed a station I wanted to work on another 
frequency.  When I finish my qso I do not hear him anymore but I do know where 
he was.  So I start calling him (either on his frequency or elsewhere).  Very 
often he will come back to me and we have a good qso.  However the software 
does not recognize that I have heard him before.  This is evident because even 
though I may have seen his grid square, the software does not have it when I go 
to log the qso.  This then is calling blind as far as the software is 
concerned.  If the same situation can exist with a fox then preventing it would 
be bad.
2.   QSB.  In this case I start out calling a station that I was copying.  Then 
he fades out before completion (maybe even before I hear an answer).  I 
continue calling him “blind” and in a few minutes he fades back in again, 
calling me.  And many times I have called for 5 or 6 sequences and then 
stopped, only to have him pop up suddenly, giving me a report.
 
So these are two situations that should not be prevented as they result in good 
qso’s.  I agree that if I were to continue calling for 10 minutes without 
hearing anything more, then I would be causing unnecessary QRM.  Maybe the 
software could have an automatic stop if the fox is calling the same station, 
with the same message, repeatedly for a long time, and without decoding any 
messages from the hound.
 
If these situations cannot arise with the fox/hound situation then please 
forgive me for “sticking my nose in”.
 
73 all, Russ K2TXB
 
From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 11:39 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Black Michael 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode
 
I foolishly thought that the commit message meant what it said.  It should have 
added "when the "More CQs box is checked".
 
So the only way to solve all the lids calling blind is to block them until they 
receive the DX station at least once (CQ or any other message).  This will 
benefit both sides of the situation.  Less QRM from all the lids and severely 
reduced blind callers causing timeouts.
 
I'm going to submit a patch to do just this.  I've not heard a single argument 
that this is a bad idea.  The only thing even possibly useful is if the 
DXpedition used these types of callers to see if the band was open which I 
doubt.
 
de Mike W9MDB
 
 
 
 
On Sunday, July 1, 2018, 7:52:05 PM CDT, David Fisher  
wrote: 
 
 
That ain’t happening at KH1/KH7X.  Not on 20M anyway.
 
Dave / NX6D
 
 
  _  

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:39:05 AM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode 
 
 
WSJT-X has already been changed where Fox transmits CQ every 5 transmissions 
now.
If you don't see it then you shouldn't be calling.
 
>From the git log:
 
In DXpedition mode, enforce a Fox CQ at least every 5 transmissions.
 
 
 
On Saturday, June 30, 2018, 10:10:09 AM CDT, Charles Suckling 
 wrote: 
 
 
Hi Mike
 
The problem with needing to see a CQ is that the dxpedition may rarely transmit 
a CQ (some folks were reporting this yesterday).  Then, stations were working 
them by just calling.  Majority were on the correct period, most were above 
1000Hz.  From what I could see here about 90% of hounds were calling correctly. 
 Whether they could hear the dxpedition is another matter.
 
Earlier this afternoon there was a run of CQ from them (or someone pretending 
to be them) about 10dB stronger than they are here most of the time (-18 to 
-20).  During this spell there seemed to be no QSOs.
 
Charlie
  _  

From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net] 
Sent: 30 June 2018 15:15
To: ' WSJT software development '
Cc: Black Michael
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode
 
I have some observations too.
 
#1 Tons of ops calling KH7Z when they can't see them.  I assume this only 
causes problems as it's quite possible KH7Z with their honker antennas and can 
see them but not the other way round.  So KH7Z will put them in the queue and 
try to process them taking up the limited slots they are using right now (2 
from what I've seen).  IMHO the solution to this is pretty simplewhen you 
turn on Hound or switch bands you should be PREVENTED FROM TRANSMITTING UNTIL 
YOU GET CQ FRO THE DX STATION.So, you would be required to double-click on 
a CQ to allow transmitting.  I noticed the the Baker 

Re: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

One question maybe some could answer is if they saw a Fox CQ and the Hound 
responses but never saw the Fox secondary messages.  You'd likely see several 
repeats from the hounds that don't see the reduced power signal.

de Mike W9MDB

 

On Monday, July 2, 2018, 12:43:01 AM CDT, Tsutsumi Takehiko 
 wrote:  
 
 
Grant,

  
 
Allow me to write my comment on your topic as I have same topic interest 
writing “FOX adaptive power control” in this thread.

  
 
Concerning your proposal, i.e.“to have the setting of number of channels vs the 
number of active channels maintain a constant PER CHANNEL TX power”

  
 
My comment is 

  

   - When fox sets 5 slot mode and it activates 5 slots, the average power per 
channel is -20*LOG(5) dB=-14dB. This means about 20W per channel if fox uses 
500W linear.

  

   - When active channel is actually 1 slot, What does fox obtain the benefit 
to maintain link with a particular hound keeping 20W instead it can transmit 
500W?  Please keep in mind fox uses his channel to send his message to 
particular fox such as “VK5GR KH7Z -05”, “VK5GR RR73”. It is not the messages 
to me JA5AEA.

  

   - Instead,  I agree to keep CQ message to be fixed, i.e. 20W as this is a 
broad cast message. If fox sends 500W, it is disastrous. (KH1/KHZ may be 
confusing us and creating lengthy arguments by this high power CQ feature??)

  
 
Regards,

  
 
take

  
 
de JA5AEA

  
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

  
 
  
 From: Grant Willis 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:47:02 PM
To: 'WSJT software development'
Subject: [wsjt-devel] Observation on Expedition Mode 
Joe,
 
  
 
An observation if I may about expedition mode. I see with KH1/KH7Z that the 
number of Fox TX channels varies – I presume as they place more stations in the 
queue. As expected, the power per channel drops the more channels running so 
that the amplifiers can keep up. However, this has an unintended consequence 
perhaps of potentially breaking QSOs. A few times now I have started calling 
KH1/KH7Z on 20m when I am receiving them around -09 (but with pretty low 
S-meter  signal strength). Usually this is with 1-2 channels running on their 
downlink. If they go to 3 channels I can still receive but it falls to say -15. 
If they bring up channel 4 and 5 I loose them. There just isn’t the link budget 
left to receive them when the power is split between more than 3 channels in 
this example.
 
  
 
Now the issue is, if they answer me by adding the 4th channel – I wont hear 
them under those conditions. If I am part way through a QSO I can loose the 
RR73 for the same reason if they answer someone else on the 4th channel– simply 
because the link runs out of steam.
 
  
 
Now if I couldn’t hear them in the first place I wouldn’t have tried calling. 
In this case however, they can disappear under load effectively and I loose 
them mid QSO.
 
  
 
For future consideration perhaps is to have the setting of number of channels 
vs the number of active channels maintain a constant PER CHANNEL TX power 
rather than the variable situation we have now. Ie I enable my fox station to 
run say 4 channels, but only reply on 1 channel, then the output power should 
be the equivalent of the power that would be in that channel if all 4 were in 
fact on air but aren’t. At least that way I have a constant link budget I am 
working with on my comms channel with the fox station rather than one that can 
have them drastically cut power mid QSO without reference to the conditions on 
the path I am working them via.
 
  
 
If what I am describing is not how it is supposed to work already then there is 
another factor at work somewhere in the chain to be explored. I would be happy 
to discuss this further and use the KH1/KH7Z expedition to observe and learn 
more about how the multi-channel nature of the mode works.
 
  
 
Regards,
 
Grant VK5GR
 
  
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[wsjt-devel] What happens when Hound does not receive RR73?

[Charles Suckling]

Hi All

 

20m conditions were a bit better today and I finally managed to work Baker
with 100W, lots of feeder loss and a sloping dipole.

 

The problem I had was, after receiving my report from KH7Z, I failed to
receive RR73.  Thanks to Bill's advice to start over again (TX1 message), on
the 4th QSO attempt (this time with G4KGC in the shack)  I finally got my
RR73.  Within about 5 sequences they came back again with a report again,
and QSO attempts proceeded normally.

 

Decoding was reasonably reliable at the time.  It seems  they did not
receive my TX3 message, hence did not send RR73, rather than me not decoding
the RR73.

 

What became apparent was that under these circumstances my TX freq was
shifted three times, then stuck on the final frequency and transmissions
would have continued at infinitum:

 

I guess this is what is expected as the User guide para 14 says:

 



 

Here is an example of one of the failed attempts:

 

083545 Tx 3056 ~ KH7Z G3WDG IO92 

083630 -13 -0.5 390 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083645 Tx 390 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-13 

083700 -16 -0.6 389 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083715 Tx 389 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-16 

083730 -14 -0.6 330 ~ G3WDG KH7Z -15

083745 Tx 330 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

083815 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

083845 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

083915 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

083945 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

084015 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14 

084045 Tx 630 ~ KH7Z G3WDG R-14

 

After moving to 630 it stayed there and continued transmitting until I
intervened, thinking that the QSO had failed and I was unnecessarily causing
QRM.

 

Should I have waited longer for Fox to respond?

 

In the situation where hounds to not receive their  RR73,  presumably  a
wall of QRM below 1000 develops for Fox making it more difficult for QSOs to
complete?  I saw other stations in the same fix as I was, repeating their
TX3 messages for many periods.

 

73

 

Charlie

 

 

 



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