Re: Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
At Thursday 24/8/2006 13:55, Alan wrote: Thanks a lot guys, it's working fine. elif (func == 'Download'): fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') file = open(fname,'rb').read() self.REQUEST.RESPONSE.setHeader('Content-Type', 'application/zip') return file Better use 'application/x-zip-compressed' and perhaps: REQUEST.RESPONSE.setHeader('Content-Disposition', 'attachment; filename="suggested-filename.zip"') Gabriel Genellina Softlab SRL __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
Thanks a lot guys, it's working fine. elif (func == 'Download'): fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') file = open(fname,'rb').read() self.REQUEST.RESPONSE.setHeader('Content-Type', 'application/zip') return file Cheers, Alan On 24/08/06, Gabriel Genellina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At Thursday 24/8/2006 12:52, Alan wrote: >But for what I want LocalFS or ExtFile sounds too much, specially >because I just need to download. Either, I did not realise yet well >what Richard purposed... However, I tried that: > >with a external method > fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') > file = open(fname,'rb').read() > return file > >but instead of having the file downloaded, it is printed in my >browser, as if it was a ascii file. I guess I need to add a mime type >property here, but I am running out of ideas. Exactly. Something like: REQUEST.RESPONSE.setHeader('Content-Type', 'application/zip-compressed') (uhm, not sure of the right spelling) And return the file object, not its contents. The publisher takes care of sending it on chunks if needed. Gabriel Genellina Softlab SRL __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas -- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research Associate Department of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge. 80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] [German Zope Conference] Reminder/Correction
First of all an important correction: The location of the 7th DZUG conference is at the technical College in St. Augustin near Bonn and not as previously announced in Berlin. The 7th DZUG conference meets on 14-15 September 2006 in St.Augustin (near Bonn/ Rhein-Sieg Technical College) and *not* in *Berlin*. The Department of Computer Science at Bonn/Rhein-Sieg College, the "Paritaetische Wohlfahrtsverband NRW" and the DZUG e.V. are organizing the conference together. The topic of the conference is "Zope as a strategic platform for complex web applications". "Plone-Track at German Zope Conference: Call for Papers" One of the three tracks is dedicated to Plone the most popular Zope-CMS. The talks in this track are intended both for developers as well as decision makers and users. Contributions are still welcome! Formal requirements for the talks * Talks are limited to 30 minutes * The slides of the talks should be delivered to the organization committee during the conference so they can be placed at the DZUG website. * Proposals with the name of the speaker are to be submitted as abstracts. * 1 September 2006 is the deadline for the e-mail submission of proposals at [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also: http://www.zope.de/dzug-tagung pgp7CPJwT4ScT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
At Thursday 24/8/2006 12:52, Alan wrote: But for what I want LocalFS or ExtFile sounds too much, specially because I just need to download. Either, I did not realise yet well what Richard purposed... However, I tried that: with a external method fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') file = open(fname,'rb').read() return file but instead of having the file downloaded, it is printed in my browser, as if it was a ascii file. I guess I need to add a mime type property here, but I am running out of ideas. Exactly. Something like: REQUEST.RESPONSE.setHeader('Content-Type', 'application/zip-compressed') (uhm, not sure of the right spelling) And return the file object, not its contents. The publisher takes care of sending it on chunks if needed. Gabriel Genellina Softlab SRL __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
- Original Message - From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem Hi! Thanks for your replies. But for what I want LocalFS or ExtFile sounds too much, specially because I just need to download. Either, I did not realise yet well what Richard purposed... However, I tried that: with a external method fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') file = open(fname,'rb').read() return file but instead of having the file downloaded, it is printed in my browser, as if it was a ascii file. I guess I need to add a mime type property here, but I am running out of ideas. Try googling: response.setheader content-type response.setheader content-disposition Jonathan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
Hi! Thanks for your replies. But for what I want LocalFS or ExtFile sounds too much, specially because I just need to download. Either, I did not realise yet well what Richard purposed... However, I tried that: with a external method fname = os.path.join(jobdir,'results.zip') file = open(fname,'rb').read() return file but instead of having the file downloaded, it is printed in my browser, as if it was a ascii file. I guess I need to add a mime type property here, but I am running out of ideas. Any commentary would be very welcome. Cheers, Alan On 24/08/06, Richard Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If you just want the file to be downloadable from say a web page served by zope you could make an object on your zope system (say a page template) that renders a page with a link to the file you wish to make available. The file would have to accessible to your web server. On 24 Aug 2006, at 16:00, Alan wrote: Dears, I would to know how to download a file generated by a program outside zope. I mean, I would like to download a file via zope webserver and such a file is located outside the zope space. Since zope treats everything as a object I have know idea of how "importing" the link to a file inside zope space. I would thank in advance any help. Cheers, Alan -- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research Associate Department of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge. 80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) Richard Phelps Senior Lecturer in Nephrology Renal Autoimmunity Group, MRC Centre for Inflammation Research, The Queen's Medical Research Institute 47 Little France Crescent Edinburgh EH16 4TJ Tel (44) 131 242 9164 Fax (44) 131 242 9168 -- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research Associate Department of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge. 80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< -- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research Associate Department of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge. 80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer, Qmail and smtp2zope.py
No matter how dumb he may be, its best not to heat yourself up for his cause. It's just foolish and damaging yourself, Chris. :) Beno, you have a serious problem that you still don't realise. You need to read up on many things especially on smtp and/or qmail. You mentioned that you have the experience, but many can tell you that you don't simply because you can't even solve this problem. I suggest you to read the fabulous manual. ;) KwangErn On 8/24/06, Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: beno wrote: > Apparently, MailBoxer must be configured a little differently for qmail: > > http://www.zope.org/Members/adytumsolutions/docs/MailBoxer Fuck. When will you get the picture? NO ONE CARES! > /var/qmail/bin/smtp2zope.py > > Is that correct? This look like a qmail list to you? Any chance you could do the species a favour and find some way to remove yourself from the gene pool? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
If you just want the file to be downloadable from say a web page served by zope you could make an object on your zope system (say a page template) that renders a page with a link to the file you wish to make available. The file would have to accessible to your web server. On 24 Aug 2006, at 16:00, Alan wrote:Dears,I would to know how to download a file generated by a program outside zope.I mean, I would like to download a file via zope webserver and such afile is located outside the zope space. Since zope treats everythingas a object I have know idea of how "importing" the link to a fileinside zope space.I would thank in advance any help.Cheers,Alan-- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research AssociateDepartment of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge.80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< ___Zope maillist - Zope@zope.orghttp://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **(Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announcehttp://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) Richard Phelps Senior Lecturer in Nephrology Renal Autoimmunity Group, MRC Centre for Inflammation Research, The Queen's Medical Research Institute 47 Little France Crescent Edinburgh EH16 4TJ Tel (44) 131 242 9164 Fax (44) 131 242 9168 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question
Hi Beno, beno wrote: > Well, all I know is that Pound has a strong following of Zopistas that > use it in combination with Zope (and without Apache) for high volume > production work and seem to be happy. Odd, then, that you have not had much input on the list about that. I can't provide numbers, but the people I speak to/work with all use Apache or Enfold. >> My domain is "xfr.co.uk", and I have a mail host called "smtp" (because >> that is what it serves). So, the token "yourMailHost" refers to the mail >> host name and the "yourDomain" refers to the domain name, so to send me >> mail, you make an SMTP connection to "smtp.xfr.co.uk". >> > Ah! So *that's* what it meant! Thank you! > I'm glad I was able to help. Since I have, can I ask you to consider the flak you have had on the list and learn from it, please? Specifically: - - The "shouting" (all caps, multiple exclamation marks) is likely to discourage people from helping you. - Stephan's comments about different cultures is something you need to take on board. I appreciate that your frustration combined with a certain Germanic bluntness was a fatal combination, but these guys were trying to help you and you roundly abused them. I've hard a hard time learning to fly Zope - I've been using it for over five years, but I learn more every day, and initially the learning curve was very steep and I spent a lot of time as frustrated as you have been. This list and it's relatives (DB, ZPT) got me through that, and I like to try to help where I can in return - so I like to see the list dynamics /work/. -- Regards, PhilK "Human language continually changes, innit." - Stephen Juan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
- Original Message - From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: [Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem Dears, I would to know how to download a file generated by a program outside zope. I mean, I would like to download a file via zope webserver and such a file is located outside the zope space. Since zope treats everything as a object I have know idea of how "importing" the link to a file inside zope space. If you want to store a file on the local filesystem and be able to access it via zope then you could look at localfs: http://sourceforge.net/projects/localfs Jonathan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] download a file in a specific folder in the filesystem
Dears, I would to know how to download a file generated by a program outside zope. I mean, I would like to download a file via zope webserver and such a file is located outside the zope space. Since zope treats everything as a object I have know idea of how "importing" the link to a file inside zope space. I would thank in advance any help. Cheers, Alan -- Alan Wilter S. da Silva, D.Sc. - Research Associate Department of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge. 80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK. http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~awd28<< ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer, Qmail and smtp2zope.py
beno wrote: Apparently, MailBoxer must be configured a little differently for qmail: http://www.zope.org/Members/adytumsolutions/docs/MailBoxer Fuck. When will you get the picture? NO ONE CARES! /var/qmail/bin/smtp2zope.py Is that correct? This look like a qmail list to you? Any chance you could do the species a favour and find some way to remove yourself from the gene pool? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question
beno wrote: Well, all I know is that Pound has a strong following of Zopistas that use it in combination with Zope (and without Apache) for high volume production work and seem to be happy. "strong" by who's definition? The odd numpty who asserts random statements that happen to fit themselves without any factual basis whatsoever? http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/VirtualHosting.stx Pound is also supported :) er, yeah... or something... warning: product requires intellect to operate That is because Zope is an application server, not a web server. Whatever, but if I don't need cgi scripts, what do I care? You mistake is thinking that anyone here actually cares what you care... that is what it serves). So, the token "yourMailHost" refers to the mail host name and the "yourDomain" refers to the domain name, so to send me mail, you make an SMTP connection to "smtp.xfr.co.uk". Ah! So *that's* what it meant! Thank you! retard... (the last definition on http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=retard) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] MailBoxer, Qmail and smtp2zope.py
Hi; Apparently, MailBoxer must be configured a little differently for qmail: http://www.zope.org/Members/adytumsolutions/docs/MailBoxer Following their advice, I created the following file: server167# vi /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-rejoice rejoice:"| smtp2zope.py http://202.71.106.119:7080/rejoice.2012.vi/rejoice/manage_mailboxer 2" where "rejoice" is the name of the list, the IP and port are correct, "rejoice.2012.vi" is the folder and "rejoice" the instance of MailBoxer. Incidentally, surfing to that URL throws an error (see below). I have put a copy of smtp2zope.py here: /var/qmail/bin/smtp2zope.py Is that correct? My mailto is [EMAIL PROTECTED] where "mail" is the smtp and "rejoice.2012.vi" is the URL. I try subscribing by sending an email to that address with "subscribe" in the subject, but I collect it in the email box I set up for that address in vpopmail. I have also tried this without said mailbox in vpopmail, but then the email just bounces. Either way, nothing ever ends up in the "maillist", nor do I ever get an email telling me I've been subscribed. What am I doing wrong? TIA, beno PS. Error from surfing to http://202.71.106.119:7080/rejoice.2012.vi/rejoice/manage_mailboxer *KeyError* Sorry, a site error occurred. Traceback (innermost last): * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 175, in publish_module_standard * Module Products.PlacelessTranslationService.PatchStringIO, line 34, in new_publish * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 132, in publish * Module Zope.App.startup, line 204, in zpublisher_exception_hook * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 101, in publish * Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object * Module Products.MailBoxer.MailBoxer, line 348, in manage_mailboxer * Module Products.MailBoxer.MailBoxer, line 661, in checkMail * Module Products.MailBoxer.MailBoxer, line 975, in getMailFromRequest * Module ZPublisher.HTTPRequest, line 1217, in __getitem__ KeyError: 'Mail' (Also, an error occurred while attempting to render the standard error message.) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question
Philip Kilner wrote: Hi, beno wrote: Apache duplicates 95% of what Zope's server does, so if you're only using Zope, then it's un-elegant to use Apache. Not so - Apache is a mature production web server, Zope is an application server that serves over HTTP, but it's HTTP server is *not* designed for production use. Well, all I know is that Pound has a strong following of Zopistas that use it in combination with Zope (and without Apache) for high volume production work and seem to be happy. the rewrite rules you have to throw at Apache are awkward You may think so, but they are the supported, documented solution: - http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/VirtualHosting.stx Pound is also supported :) Zope can't handle cgi scirpts That is because Zope is an application server, not a web server. Whatever, but if I don't need cgi scripts, what do I care? I find the tokens "yourMailHost" and "yourDomain" terribly unclear. I simply don't understand that. It's off topic, but here goes: - My domain is "xfr.co.uk", and I have a mail host called "smtp" (because that is what it serves). So, the token "yourMailHost" refers to the mail host name and the "yourDomain" refers to the domain name, so to send me mail, you make an SMTP connection to "smtp.xfr.co.uk". Ah! So *that's* what it meant! Thank you! beno ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Zope behind iis
Hi Max, Max M wrote: >> (Having seen a server wiped out via an IIS security hole, I just don't >> trust it on a public IP - long time ago, but once bitten, twice shy!) > > Hmmm ... then try making a mistake in your apache httpd.conf and turn on > proxy by mistake. > Sure - but I'm much more worried about mistakes that others have made that I could not possibly know about. Within limits, I can do something to manage my own risk, and in any event it is my responsibility - but I don't want to buy an unquantifiable risk off someone else. -- Regards, PhilK "Human language continually changes, innit." - Stephen Juan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question
David H wrote: hang in there beno. Would it be too rude to add "preferably by the neck"? ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ONE MORE TIME MAILBOXER!!!!!!!!
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 15:36, beno wrote: > > You're really not going to win any friends, or get any help, with this > > approach. > > > > Sometimes it's the only way to get past the arrogant belligerent list > subscribers who choose to make miserable the lives of those of us who > ask questions they consider stupid :) And it worked, didn't it? I think you are totally out of line. Both Andreas and Jens have contributed alot to the community, including being often the only ones to respond to mails on this list at all. Maybe you have a problem with their characters, but that's really your problem. They are both Germans and Germans tend to be direct and less socially soothing -- I am speaking out of experience. But that's just another part of Open Source Communities. You have to deal with mentalities and social behavior of people from all places on this planet. BTW, if you want really friendly help, pay someone to give it to you. ;-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Zope behind iis
Philip Kilner wrote: Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: Personally, I'd just put Apache in front of both Zope and IIS... Me too - simpler, better documented, safer. (Having seen a server wiped out via an IIS security hole, I just don't trust it on a public IP - long time ago, but once bitten, twice shy!) Hmmm ... then try making a mistake in your apache httpd.conf and turn on proxy by mistake. -- hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark http://www.mxm.dk/ IT's Mad Science Phone: +45 66 11 84 94 Mobile: +45 29 93 42 96 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )