Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Thanks for the help here. Much appreciated. Still not running but getting there.On 8/10/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:Hi Michael,michael nt milne wrote:> I've even tried using the machine's local IP but that doesn't work in
> the same way that localhost doesn't. I've installed Apache now as well> so as to route requests through that to Zope.>> I'm going to be using the same IP address that the webmail exchange
> service uses. It uses mail.sbcscot.com  so I> guess if I have http://plone.sbcscot.com
 then I could tell Apache to> route that to Zope? How would I tell IIS or ISA not to listen to that> domain? Meanwhile I noticed on installing Apache that it failed to bind> to port 80!>
Well, you /can't/ tell IIS not to listen on that "domain" - it listensat a port on an IP. The host header translation for virtual hosting canonly happen if it can field the request in the first place (
e.g. ifthere are no clashes at that port/IP). If you have a single interface,you are stuck using non-standard ports to avoid clashes. Apache will notbind to port 80 either because you have 
http://mail.sbcscot.com bound tothe same port & IP, or because of the "socket pooling" nonsense if youhave a separate IP.I would not touch ISA with a barge-pole if I had a choice - but assuming
you are on SBS and are/could be behind a separate firewall, I would: -- Leave Zope/Plone on 8080- Change the port for webmail (and any other IIS stuff) to a differenthigh port (e.g. 9080?), so it is no longer clashing with Apache.
- Disable "socket pooling". - Run Apache on port 80- Use virtual hosts with rewrite rules in the Apache .conf to passrequests to your Zope and Webmail sites.You could probably do something similar with ISA server (I do, but not
on the same box as IIS and Zope/Plone), but I'd rather not even thinkabout that...--Regards,PhilKEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP Public key: 
http://www.xfr.co.ukVoicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:say where the sweetness and the sourness start."- Tony Harrison

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Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Michael,

michael nt milne wrote:
> I've even tried using the machine's local IP but that doesn't work in
> the same way that localhost doesn't. I've installed Apache now as well
> so as to route requests through that to Zope.
> 
> I'm going to be using the same IP address that the webmail exchange
> service uses. It uses mail.sbcscot.com  so I
> guess if I have http://plone.sbcscot.com then I could tell Apache to
> route that to Zope? How would I tell IIS or ISA not to listen to that
> domain? Meanwhile I noticed on installing Apache that it failed to bind
> to port 80!
> 

Well, you /can't/ tell IIS not to listen on that "domain" - it listens
at a port on an IP. The host header translation for virtual hosting can
only happen if it can field the request in the first place (e.g. if
there are no clashes at that port/IP). If you have a single interface,
you are stuck using non-standard ports to avoid clashes. Apache will not
bind to port 80 either because you have http://mail.sbcscot.com bound to
the same port & IP, or because of the "socket pooling" nonsense if you
have a separate IP.

I would not touch ISA with a barge-pole if I had a choice - but assuming
you are on SBS and are/could be behind a separate firewall, I would: -

- Leave Zope/Plone on 8080

- Change the port for webmail (and any other IIS stuff) to a different
high port (e.g. 9080?), so it is no longer clashing with Apache.

- Disable "socket pooling". 

- Run Apache on port 80

- Use virtual hosts with rewrite rules in the Apache .conf to pass
requests to your Zope and Webmail sites.

You could probably do something similar with ISA server (I do, but not
on the same box as IIS and Zope/Plone), but I'd rather not even think
about that...


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Hi

I've even tried using the machine's local IP but that doesn't work in
the same way that localhost doesn't. I've installed Apache now as well
so as to route requests through that to Zope.

I'm going to be using the same IP address that the webmail exchange
service uses. It uses mail.sbcscot.com so I guess if I have
http://plone.sbcscot.com then I could tell Apache to route that to
Zope? How would I tell IIS or ISA not to listen to that domain?
Meanwhile I noticed on installing Apache that it failed to bind to port
80!On 8/10/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Michael,michael nt milne wrote:> Thanks for the help here. I'm calling in a support engineer to try and> get it up and running. Firewall, router issues involved. Strange> though that localhost doesn't work. Because that wouldn't go through
> the firewall/router.>I despise ISA Server with a passion - have just spent a couple of hourshunting down a silly mistake in one of my rules in the 2K3 version whichwould have stuck out like a sore thumb in an Apache .conf file.
I wouldn't make any assumptions about what it might block, up to andincluding localhost - it bites me time after time, and all I ever haveto do is add web publishing rules, which that /should/ be simple enough.
Problem is, it's all hidden in tabbed dialogues where you can't see thewhole rule at once...> I've also noticed that something shuts down pythonservice.exe program> which is strange.
>Now that /is/ a new one on me - but would certainly explain your problem...Good luck!--Regards,PhilKEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP Public key: 
http://www.xfr.co.ukVoicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Michael,

michael nt milne wrote:
> Thanks for the help here. I'm calling in a support engineer to try and
> get it up and running. Firewall, router issues involved. Strange
> though that localhost doesn't work. Because that wouldn't go through
> the firewall/router.
> 

I despise ISA Server with a passion - have just spent a couple of hours
hunting down a silly mistake in one of my rules in the 2K3 version which
would have stuck out like a sore thumb in an Apache .conf file.

I wouldn't make any assumptions about what it might block, up to and
including localhost - it bites me time after time, and all I ever have
to do is add web publishing rules, which that /should/ be simple enough.
Problem is, it's all hidden in tabbed dialogues where you can't see the
whole rule at once...

> I've also noticed that something shuts down pythonservice.exe program
> which is strange.
> 

Now that /is/ a new one on me - but would certainly explain your problem...

Good luck!

-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Thanks for the help here. I'm calling in a support engineer to try and
get it up and running. Firewall, router issues involved. Strange
though that localhost doesn't work. Because that wouldn't go through
the firewall/router.

I've also noticed that something shuts down pythonservice.exe program
which is strange.

On 8/9/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> michael nt milne wrote:
> > Ok, thanks. Yes, Apache would be much better to route traffic through.
> > And also it looks like a complete pain to try and route traffic
> > through IIS. Is Apache for windows good? I only have experience of it
> > on UNIX>
> >
> 
> Works fine - once it's up and running and you are looking at the .conf
> file, you will probably barely notice the difference.
> 
> > Since I am not expecting very high traffic for my site at first I am
> > going to use the Zope server at first. My head is hurting too much
> > just now!
> >
> 
> Understood!
> 
> > By the way do you have any experience of altering the zope database or
> > adding fields to the registration process on Plone etc? Seems a wee
> > bit tricky and a client wants extra fields etc.
> >
> 
> That's one for the Plone list - but there is now a release candidate out
> for Plone 2.1, and I understand such things are simpler in that version.
> There may be an existing CMF/Plone product that does what you want for
> that matter.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Regards,
> 
> PhilK
> 
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
> Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518
> 
> "You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
> say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
> - Tony Harrison
>
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Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[J Cameron Cooper]

michael nt milne wrote:

Ok, thanks. Yes, Apache would be much better to route traffic through.
And also it looks like a complete pain to try and route traffic
through IIS.


That's my understanding. You can either look up the ASP404 hack or use 
something like http://www.enfoldsystems.com/Products/EEP



Is Apache for windows good? I only have experience of it
on UNIX>


I last ran Apache on Windows back when it was 1.something. It still had 
a "be careful on Windows" notice, in fact. I didn't have any problems, 
but then I wasn't using it very hard. I would assume it's gotten better.



Since I am not expecting very high traffic for my site at first I am
going to use the Zope server at first. My head is hurting too much
just now!


Apache is useful for keeping maliciously formed requests and other junk 
away from Zope. ZServer is capable, but Apache is much more serious. 
Running Zope exposed to the public network is not the best idea in the 
world, though you can get away with it.



By the way do you have any experience of altering the zope database or
adding fields to the registration process on Plone etc? Seems a wee
bit tricky and a client wants extra fields etc.


See CMFMember. Also, ther's a howto on plone.org about this. There's 
about four places you have to touch, but it's not such a big deal.


--jcc
--
"Building Websites with Plone"
http://plonebook.packtpub.com/

Enfold Systems, LLC
http://www.enfoldsystems.com
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Michael,

michael nt milne wrote:
> Ok, thanks. Yes, Apache would be much better to route traffic through.
> And also it looks like a complete pain to try and route traffic
> through IIS. Is Apache for windows good? I only have experience of it
> on UNIX>
> 

Works fine - once it's up and running and you are looking at the .conf
file, you will probably barely notice the difference.

> Since I am not expecting very high traffic for my site at first I am
> going to use the Zope server at first. My head is hurting too much
> just now!
> 

Understood!

> By the way do you have any experience of altering the zope database or
> adding fields to the registration process on Plone etc? Seems a wee
> bit tricky and a client wants extra fields etc.
> 

That's one for the Plone list - but there is now a release candidate out
for Plone 2.1, and I understand such things are simpler in that version.
There may be an existing CMF/Plone product that does what you want for
that matter.


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Ok, thanks. Yes, Apache would be much better to route traffic through.
And also it looks like a complete pain to try and route traffic
through IIS. Is Apache for windows good? I only have experience of it
on UNIX>

Since I am not expecting very high traffic for my site at first I am
going to use the Zope server at first. My head is hurting too much
just now!

By the way do you have any experience of altering the zope database or
adding fields to the registration process on Plone etc? Seems a wee
bit tricky and a client wants extra fields etc.

On 8/9/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> michael nt milne wrote:
> > Ok thanks. Will check on the ISA side. I've it up and running on a laptop 
> > fine.
> > Will let you know progress. Would you say it should be fine just
> > running the app from the zope server on 8080 once it is running,rather
> > than configuring to go through IIS?What's your experience?
> >
> 
> Glad you've had it running on a laptop - I was concerned you might lose
> faith!
> 
> ;-)
> 
> If the app is Internet facing, or has non-trivial traffic, I'd put Zope
> behind Apache. I have multiple sites on single Zope instances on several
> Windows servers, and it works really well.
> 
> In my case, Apache serves pages on port 80 but on a separate IP address
> from IIS. One old server is NT4 (!) which worked fine, another is Win2k
> Server, and I needed to knock socket pooling on the head for that one.
> 
> If I were doing it again, I'd run /both/ Zope and IIS on non-standard
> ports, and put both behind Apache. I may be a bit jaundiced, but I don't
> consider IIS is well enough house-trained to be let loose on port 80...
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Regards,
> 
> PhilK
> 
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
> Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518
> 
> "You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
> say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
> - Tony Harrison
>
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Michael,

michael nt milne wrote:
> Ok thanks. Will check on the ISA side. I've it up and running on a laptop 
> fine.
> Will let you know progress. Would you say it should be fine just
> running the app from the zope server on 8080 once it is running,rather
> than configuring to go through IIS?What's your experience?
> 

Glad you've had it running on a laptop - I was concerned you might lose
faith!

;-)

If the app is Internet facing, or has non-trivial traffic, I'd put Zope
behind Apache. I have multiple sites on single Zope instances on several
Windows servers, and it works really well.

In my case, Apache serves pages on port 80 but on a separate IP address
from IIS. One old server is NT4 (!) which worked fine, another is Win2k
Server, and I needed to knock socket pooling on the head for that one.

If I were doing it again, I'd run /both/ Zope and IIS on non-standard
ports, and put both behind Apache. I may be a bit jaundiced, but I don't
consider IIS is well enough house-trained to be let loose on port 80...


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Ok thanks. Will check on the ISA side. I've it up and running on a laptop fine.
Will let you know progress. Would you say it should be fine just
running the app from the zope server on 8080 once it is running,rather
than configuring to go through IIS?What's your experience?

On 8/9/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Michael nt milne wrote:
> > I read though that you have to do a re-write in IIS or install an
> > ISAPI re-write extension so that IIS speaks to zope. There's also the
> > 404 asp script in Andy Mckay's book.
> > 
> 
> This only applies if you are using the /same/ ports on IIS as Zope.
> Using 8080 should keep it separate.
> 
> > Apparently IIS hogs all the ports and has to be forced not to.
> > 
> 
> Not quite - it hogs it's ports (e.g. 21, 80, 443) on all IPs (socket
> pooling) unless sense is kicked into it.
> 
> See: -
> 
>   http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q238131/
> 
> > Not sure about ISA server.
> > 
> 
> Since it is a firewall and would know about IIS but not Zope, you do
> need to know if it's in play...
> 
> Can I suggest you try this on a plain Windows workstation, so you can
> see how it "normally" works?
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> PhilK
> 
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
> Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518
> 
> "You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
> say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
> - Tony Harrison
>
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Michael,

Michael nt milne wrote:
> I read though that you have to do a re-write in IIS or install an
> ISAPI re-write extension so that IIS speaks to zope. There's also the
> 404 asp script in Andy Mckay's book.
> 

This only applies if you are using the /same/ ports on IIS as Zope.
Using 8080 should keep it separate.

> Apparently IIS hogs all the ports and has to be forced not to.
> 

Not quite - it hogs it's ports (e.g. 21, 80, 443) on all IPs (socket
pooling) unless sense is kicked into it.

See: -

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q238131/

> Not sure about ISA server.
> 

Since it is a firewall and would know about IIS but not Zope, you do
need to know if it's in play...

Can I suggest you try this on a plain Windows workstation, so you can
see how it "normally" works?


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
- Tony Harrison
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[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

[michael nt milne]

Hi

I read though that you have to do a re-write in IIS or install an
ISAPI re-write extension so that IIS speaks to zope. There's also the
404 asp script in Andy Mckay's book.

Apparently IIS hogs all the ports and has to be forced not to.

Not sure about ISA server.

On 8/9/05, Philip Kilner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Apols for delay in replying - been on the hoof.
> 
> michael nt milne wrote:
> > Thanks for the advice. Yes I've looked at everything mentioned here.
> > Localhost is in the hosts file. Zope has started as a service. I've
> > changed the hosts file to include localhost:8080/manage etc.
> > 
> > Yes this is a set-up on Windows Small Business Server and it also has
> > an Exchange webmail service running as well.
> > 
> > The web server is IIS 6.0.
> > 
> > Enterting http:// or /exchange
> > 
> > gives the login for the exchange service, however localhost:8080 or
> > 127.0.0.1 etc gives page not found.
> > 
> > Do I need to set-up a website under IIS or a virtual directory?
> > 
> 
> Absolutely not - if IIS and Zope are on different ports, they are two
> entirely separate beasts.
> 
> Does your SBS install include ISA server?
> 
> - If so, you will probably need to tweak it.
> 
> - If not, I would try looking at logfiles and/or changing Zope's port.
> 
> Honestly, this is usually v. easy - either the service is having
> problems or there is something else on that port (it's often used by web
> application servers, e.g. Tomcat, as a default).
> 
> HTH - Let us know where you're at.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> PhilK
> 
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
> Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518
> 
> "You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
> say where the sweetness and the sourness start."
> - Tony Harrison
>
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