Re: [Zope-dev] 2.9.4? reStructuredText support?

2006-07-16 Thread Richard Jones
On Sunday 09 July 2006 22:56, Jim Fulton wrote:
 Whoever integrated reST didn't even read the documentation, much less
 the code.

FWIW.

The ZReST product was originally released by me around 2002 - before those 
directives existed. According to the docutils HISTORY file, the directives 
themselves added in 2003. The *warning* about them was added in 2004.
The configuration to *disable* them appears to have been added in 2005.

What the hell docutils was doing turning this feature on by default...


Richard
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[Zope-dev] Puzzling change to guarded_getitem in Zope 2.8

2005-08-25 Thread Richard Jones
I'm migrating our 2.7-developed Product to 2.8. The following change has me 
puzzled. In 2.7,  AccessControl.ZopeGuards guarded_getitem has the following 
code:

def guarded_getitem(object, index):
[ snip handling of slices ]
...
v = object[index]
if Containers(type(object)) and Containers(type(v)):
# Simple type.  Short circuit.
return v
if getSecurityManager().validate(object, object, index, v):
return v
raise Unauthorized, 'unauthorized access to element %s' % `i`

note the use of index in the validate call. In 2.8, this appears as:

def guarded_getitem(object, index):
[ snip handling of slices ]
...
v = object[index]
if Containers(type(object)) and Containers(type(v)):
# Simple type.  Short circuit.
return v
if getSecurityManager().validate(object, object, None, v):
return v
raise Unauthorized, 'unauthorized access to element %s' % `i`

where index has become None. This would appear to imply that we can't 
perform access controls on a per-item basis in sequences or mappings, unless 
we do so in the actual __getitem__ method, which implies there's no such 
thing as trusted code. We have an access policy implementation of:

def _checkAccess(self, name, value):
if name.startswith('CG'):
return 1
if self.isValidAggregateName(name):
return 1
return 0
security.setDefaultAccess(_checkAccess)

which obviously doesn't work any more, since name is never a item name, it's 
always None.


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Puzzling change to guarded_getitem in Zope 2.8

2005-08-25 Thread Richard Jones
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:00 am, Richard Jones wrote:
 I'm migrating our 2.7-developed Product to 2.8. The following change has me
 puzzled. In 2.7,  AccessControl.ZopeGuards guarded_getitem has the
 following code:

OK, Tres made the change, with the relevant bit of the log message being:

Iteration over sequences could in some cases fail to check access
to an object obtained from the sequence. Subsequent checks (such
as for attributes access) of such an object would still be
performed, but it should not have been possible to obtain the
object in the first place.

List and dictionary instance methods such as the get method of
dictionary objects were not security aware and could return an
object without checking access to that object. Subsequent checks
(such as for attributes access) of such an object would still be
performed, but it should not have been possible to obtain the
object in the first place.

So I presume that the change *intended* to move the onus of validation from 
the guarded_getitem method to the __getitem__ method of the container? No 
more trusted access to custom (ie. not builtin) sequence/mapping objects?


 Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] I want Zope 2.9 to use Zope 3's security architecture.

2005-04-06 Thread Richard Jones
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:49 am, Jim Fulton wrote:
 Paul Winkler wrote:
  i.e. will I still write:
 
  security.declareProtected(SomePermission, 'foo')
  def foo(self):
  ...

 That will work, and I don't see a need to deprecate it.
 Eventually, though, I expect products to migrate to
 ZCML-based security declarations.

Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid ZCML if 
possible. It's just one of those personal preference things, I suppose, but I 
know I'm not the only one who isn't that enamored of the ZCML approach. I 
actually like having the declarations all in the python code like it is in 
Zope 2.

I'd like to see the declarative style that Zope 2 move to using decorators. I 
was sitting in a presentation at PyCon talking about MetaClasses, and I 
finally *got* them. I realised that the security declarations in Zope 2 are a 
perfect fit for metaclasses and decorators. If only I had the time to 
actually implement this dream ;)

Note that this all comes from the perspective of someone whose only exposure 
to Zope 3 has been through two sprints. I've not actually tried to develop 
any sort of application using it. My day job is very firmly fixed in Zope 2, 
and isn't likely to change for a long time. So I'm definitely speaking from 
ignorance of real-world application development in Zope 3.


 Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] More on [Removal of aq_acquire from guarded_getattr]

2005-02-06 Thread Richard Jones
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:30 am, Stefan H. Holek wrote:
- declaring object security on the acquiree via
 declareObjectProtected(foo)

For me, the problem arises when the acquiree is a Python builtin object - a 
string instance attribute in my case. Hence I can't make any useful statement 
like the above. I have a statement::

   security.setDefaultAccess({'secure_url': 1})

on the class, but with the change discussed here, that assertion is never 
looked up. I attempted to::

   security.declarePublic('secure_url') 

but of course that didn't change anything, as I mentioned the class assertions 
weren't being looked at.

After poking around some more, I realised that validate() 
(VerboseSecurityPolicy's) was being invoked with::

   aq_chain(container) = [
 CG Conference Registrations registrations at 0x4176ba00,
 CG WebSpace web at 0x41483ce0,
 CG Conference 1 at 0x4176b970,
 CG Conferences conferences at 0x41483c30,
 CGPublisher CGPublisher at 0x4176b980,
 Application instance at 4179e050,
 RequestContainer instance at 4176b9f0]

   context = AccessControl.SecurityManagement.SecurityContext instance at
 0x413cabec

   aq_chain(value) = ['http://secure.cgpublisher.localhost']

That is, there's no acquisition context on the simple string. To fix the 
problem, I changed secure_url to be a ComputedAttribute which looked up the 
instance attribute _secure_url. This then gave the value a valid acquisition 
chain and everything works now.

I'm really sorry I can't be more helpful and produce a useful test case, but 
I've a bazillion deadlines falling on the floor. Maybe in a few months. For 
now I just needed a work-around that will let me run in an un-patched Zope.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] More on [Removal of aq_acquire from guarded_getattr]

2005-02-06 Thread Richard Jones
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On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 05:26 pm, Richard Jones wrote:
 That is, there's no acquisition context on the simple string. To fix the
 problem, I changed secure_url to be a ComputedAttribute which looked up the
 instance attribute _secure_url. This then gave the value a valid
 acquisition chain and everything works now.

Please ignore this message. Everything does *not* work. I am at a loss as to 
why it worked *briefly*. Must've just been some other artifact introduced 
during the hours of messing with the code. Back to the code-mine.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] SOAP Support for ZOPE

2004-12-14 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:54 am, Aruna Kathiria wrote:
 I did some work regarding SOAP support on ZOPE and published this
 document on zope.org.

Is there really no interest in getting SOAP support into the Zope core?

I've got a guy working on some Microsoft Word stuff at the moment, and he was 
dumbfounded when he discovered that Zope doesn't support SOAP. In his words, 
everyone supports SOAP. Sigh :)

Are there any objections to getting Aruna's patches into the 2.8 codebase? I'd 
be willing to do the work - but note I know practically nothing about SOAP - 
I just want to be able to use it.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Was: Re: 2.7.3 beta attribute permission problems

2004-10-24 Thread Richard Jones
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:29 pm, Stefan H. Holek wrote:
 On 22.10.2004, at 14:38, Tres Seaver wrote:
  Given that the change was required to implement a security fix, and
  without a reproducible test case for the reported breakage, I don't
  think we can credit the rumors.  We *definitely* don't want to defer
  the security fix.

 I still don't know what the security fix actually fixes, but that may
 well be my ignorance ;-). Your checkin message just mentions the
 removal of DWIMy code...

Actually, this is a point I wanted to make a long time ago. I believe there 
would have been less confusion all around (and some still lingers) if there 
had have been more information in the checkin message than DWIMy code. DWIM 
only really has meaning to certain sets of I.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Was: Re: 2.7.3 beta attribute permission problems

2004-10-23 Thread Richard Jones
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:03 am, Tres Seaver wrote:
 Richard Jones reported an issue with the patch, but couldn't give us a
 simple case.  Users who *have* such weird applications can reverse the
 patch, find workarounds, or whatever, until they can help us isolate the
 bug.

I find this to be totally acceptable, BTW.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7.3 beta attribute permission problems

2004-10-19 Thread Richard Jones
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On 19/10/2004, at 4:33 PM, Santi Camps wrote:
Yes, meta_type is an attribute of type string, but I don't understand 
your reasons.   Acquisition, obviously, is not implemented in strings, 
but if the object containing meta_type attribute inherits from 
Acquisition.Implicit it should work.  In fact, it works for Zope 2.7.0 
to 2.7.2.   The problem appears in Zope 2.7.3, and I think that the 
problem is the change I mentioned in AccessControl/cAccessControl.c 
and AccessControl/ImplPython.py. I suppose this change is for some 
reasonable reason, but if it breaks security validations throught 
implicit acqusition I think the change should be considered.
AFAIK Tres is working on this. I was unable to produce a simple example 
case, but more recently Stefan Holek (I think) was. The last I saw was 
Tres saying Aargh! on the 13th, then on the 14th saying he's unable 
to produce good test cases.

And that's the problem. Tres' patch removed DWIM code. I'm not sure 
what that meant (I know what DWIM stands for ;) ... and I'm unable to 
state exactly (in a test case) what it is that my code does that 
invokes the DWIM'y code.

Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] session error

2004-10-19 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:23 am, Gerry Kirk wrote:
 A user got this error trying to edit content. It only happened once, and
 on second try she was ok. Using Zope 2.7.0:

2.7.3 (currently beta, but live on our production server) fixes errors of this 
sort.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-22 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:40 am, Chris McDonough wrote:
 Would you be able to write a short test case that demonstrates the
 failure mode that you're seeing in your existing code?  It would be nice
 to understand the failure before blindly reenabling the old behavior
 because it really is DWIM.

Yes, and I have to try to produce a test case that shows up the 
ComputedAttribute issues I've been having too. I'm flat out at work (now that 
I'm no longer spending most of my time fixing ZODB corruptions and their 
fallout, I have a huge backlog of work to catch up on ;)


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-22 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:14 pm, Chris McDonough wrote:
 Alright, well, in the meantime, I think we're going to release the beta
 with the aq_acquire DWIM removed and if it causes other folks problems
 we'll be able to tell from folks using the beta

Yep, fair enough.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-20 Thread Richard Jones
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On 15/09/2004, at 1:00 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:
I'd just stick the code back in there for now and we'll see what Tres
says.
No word from Tres, 2.7 branch release coming up...
Richard
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[Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-14 Thread Richard Jones
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[might dupe - sent the first copy of this from the wrong address, sorry!]

I've just upgraded to use the bleeding-edge 2-7 branch (from 2.7.2, running in
py 2.3.3) and I've started getting permission problems with attributes. The
cause appears to be acquired attributes. With VerboseSecurity installed
(note: behaviour not dependent on VS - I checked), I get told:

 Error Type: Unauthorized
 Error Value: The container has no security assertions. Access to 'secure_url'
   of (CG Conference Proposals proposals at 0x41387b40) denied.

The secure_url attribute is defined at a much higher object, where we have a
declaration including:

security.setDefaultAccess({'secure_url': 1})

On the proposals object though, we don't have any delaration for the
secure_url attribute. If I add one, or a general
security.setDefaultAccess(allow), then the error goes away. This doesn't
seem correct to me.

The relevant change in CVS appears to be:

*** ../../../../Zope-2.7.2/lib/python/AccessControl/ImplPython.py 2004-02-10
17:46:02.0 +1100
- --- AccessControl/ImplPython.py 2004-09-15 09:59:41.617423171 +1000
***
*** 551,560 
  return v

  validate = SecurityManagement.getSecurityManager().validate
- - # Filter out the objects we can't access.
- - if hasattr(inst, 'aq_acquire'):
- - return inst.aq_acquire(name, aq_validate, validate)
- - # Or just try to get the attribute directly.
  if validate(inst, inst, name, v):
  return v
  raise Unauthorized, name
- --- 551,556 

The change note being - Removed DWIM'y attempt to filter
acquired-but-not-aceessible results from 'guarded_getattr'. and I'm not sure
what that means :)


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-14 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:15 pm, Chris McDonough wrote:
 On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 21:18, Richard Jones wrote:
  On the proposals object though, we don't have any delaration for the
  secure_url attribute. If I add one, or a general
  security.setDefaultAccess(allow), then the error goes away. This
  doesn't seem correct to me.

 It sure doesn't sound right.  Just to be pedantic:  You have an object A
 that has no security assertion for secure_url.  You have an object B
 that does.  When you access the aq context a.__of__(b) and ask it for
 secure_url in restricted code, it refuses access.  Is that a
 reasonable characterization or am I reading it wrong?

Yep, that's the situation. It appears to look for the security assertions for 
secure_url on A instead of B. Note that secure_url is an attribute of B.


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-14 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:36 pm, Chris McDonough wrote:
  Yep, that's the situation. It appears to look for the security assertions
  for secure_url on A instead of B. Note that secure_url is an
  attribute of B.

 Yup.  IOW, it looks like it used to find the first secure_url it could
 access and return that, even if there were other acquirable secure_url
 attrs before that one in the acquisition path.  I'm sure the fact that
 it ignores any intermediate (but inaccessible) secure_url attrs is
 what Tres meant by DWIM.

I *think* you're implying that there might be more than one secure_url 
attribute in the acquisition path? If so, that's not the case. There is only 
one, and it's on B.

Or perhaps what you're saying is that in the pre-patch days, if there *was* an 
attribute on A, then validate() would do the Wrong Thing, or something 
otherwise bad would happen.

I'm a little confused about why I'm the only person seeing this, BTW...


 But I'm not sure that he intended for the patch to have this effect.
 I'm not even sure why it does have this effect; the validate function
 is just too byzantine to understand without taking it through the
 debugger.

You can say that again. My head hurts every time I need to look into 
validate() and friends ;)


 Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 branch: attribute permission problems

2004-09-14 Thread Richard Jones
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:00 pm, Chris McDonough wrote:
 I'd just stick the code back in there for now and we'll see what Tres
 says.

This is what I've done to speed up my testing, rather than fixing all the 
places stuff is broken. I'll be testing for the rest of today, and if all 
goes well I'll get the 2.7 branch installed tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help and support, Chris!


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope Enhancement Proposal] Sanitizing local roles

2004-07-23 Thread Richard Jones
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On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:30 am, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Moreover, I propose to change the local role management pages.
 When setting local roles, information about acquired
 local role definitions is very helpful.
 I therefore propose to display this information on the local
 role edit page.

I have implemented a security information page that details this and more
info. I've always found the default security edit pages to be less than
useful since they inherently use acquisition, but don't tell you what would
be or is currently acquired.

The code is attached. We mix it in with every object. A sample output is also
attached.

I have found it invaluable when debugging permissions problems.

Would this be a useful thing to add to 2.8?


Richard
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ManageViewAccess.py
Description: application/python
dtml-var manage_page_header
dtml-var manage_tabs

h2Access permissions dump/h2


dl
dtstrongValid Roles:/strong
dddtml-var ', '.join(valid_roles())
dtstrongUser Defined Roles:/strong
dddtml-var ', '.join(userdefined_roles())
dtstrongLocal Roles:/strong
dd
table class=listing
tbody
trthAt Object/ththLocal Roles Defined/th/tr
dtml-in list_local_roles
trtd
dtml-var sequence-key
/tdtd
dtml-var 'br'.join(['%s: %s'%(i[0], ', '.join(i[1])) for i in 
_['sequence-item']])
/td/tr
/dtml-in
/tbody
/table

dtstrongPermission Usage:/strong
dd
table class=listing
tbody
trthPermission/ththAssigned To/th/tr
dtml-in list_permission_use mapping
trtd
dtml-sequence-key;
/tdtd
dtml-perm; from dtml-from;
/td/tr
/dtml-in
/tbody
/table

dtstrongPermission Settings:/strong
dd
table class=listing
tbody
trthPermission/ththHas Roles Assigned/th/tr
dtml-in list_permission_roles
trtd
dtml-var sequence-key
/tdtd
dtml-var 'br'.join([', '.join(d['roles']) + ' from %(from)s'%d for d in 
_['sequence-item']])br
/td/tr
/dtml-in
/tbody
/table

/dl

dtml-var manage_page_footer
Title: CGPublisher




  



   
  ZopeCGPublisherpublishers1 (Jane's Books)products2 (Jane's test book 2)details
 
 




  



  





 Jane's Books

 
 
  
  Works
  About
  Security
  Messages
  People
  Products
  Orders
  Work Templates
  Web Space
 
 




   
 
  


  
  
  Product Information 
  
  
  Availability 
  
  
  Subject 
  
  
  Book Information 
  
  
  Cover Images 
  
  
  



Access permissions dump



Valid Roles:
Actioner, Anonymous, Authenticated, Contributor, Creator, Manager, Owner, Publisher, System RPC, Visitor
User Defined Roles:

Local Roles:



At ObjectLocal Roles Defined

details




2




products

admin: Owner


1

2: Publisher


publishers

admin: Owner


CGPublisher

admin: Owner









Permission Usage:



PermissionAssigned To

DELETE

Delete objects from webdav.Resource.Resource


HEAD

View from webdav.Resource.Resource


LOCK

WebDAV Lock items from webdav.Resource.Resource


PROPFIND

WebDAV access from webdav.Resource.Resource


PROPPATCH

Manage properties from webdav.Resource.Resource


UNLOCK

WebDAV Unlock items from webdav.Resource.Resource


ac_inherited_permissions

Change permissions from AccessControl.Role.RoleManager


acquiredRolesAreUsedBy

Change permissions from AccessControl.Role.RoleManager


addStorageData

Manage properties from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


addStorageDataForm

Manage properties from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


asCGXML

View public storage metadata from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


countRepetitions

Access contents information from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


dummy_public

View public storage metadata from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


dummy_shared

View shared storage metadata from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


dump

View private storage metadata from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


editPane

View from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


editPaneHelper

View from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


genericSchemaForm

View from Products.CGPublisher.storage.Storage.Storage


getAttribute

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Element


getAttributeNode

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Element


getAttributes

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Node


getChildNodes

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Node


getElementsByTagName

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Element


getFirstChild

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Node


getLastChild

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Node


getNextSibling

Access contents information from OFS.ZDOM.Node

Re: [Zope-dev] How should an ideal Zope IDE look like?

2004-04-24 Thread Richard Jones
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On Saturday 24 Apr 2004 09:13, Andre Meyer wrote:
 - Commenting/uncommenting code (any hope Python will ever offer
 multi-line comments?).

'''
this_code_is_commented_out()
so_is_this()
'''


 Well, there is certainly more, but this is a start... ;-)

That's quite a list.


 One could start from Eclipse/PyDev (http://pydev.sourceforge.net/) and
 add features.

Or start with IDLE which already has a lot of Python support (duh :)


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZPT for CSS, anyone?

2004-04-02 Thread Richard Jones
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On Friday 02 Apr 2004 18:44, Chris Withers wrote:
 Ah, okay, I think building something purely for CSS would REALLY suck.

 Something which could generically build SQL, CSS, Emails I would be less
 lielyl to vomit about...

[snip] 

 So persuade the Python guys to make string interpolation as powerful as you
 need it to be ;-)

Why don't we have a good, long look at:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

under the Templating Systems heading and make sure that someone else hasn't 
already come up with a good system that templates SQL, CSS, email, etc 
nicely.

There's an awful lot of templating systems there...


Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope 2.7 and objects turning into None

2004-02-22 Thread Richard Jones
On Saturday 21 February 2004 06:04, Casey Duncan wrote:
 This is indeed possible. getObject swallows all errors and returns None
 when one occurs. This would make it return None on busy systems if the
 traversal during getObject raised a read ConflictError.

This would indeed result in the behaviour I was seeing.


 I consider this a bug and I will look into what the *real* desired
 semantics are. I've been bitten myself by this in applications which
 naively assumed getObject would always return a Zope object.

You say naively, I say rightly. I could be wrong though :)


 For Zope 2.8 it might be reasonable to consider also making the case
 where accessing objects that have been removed without uncataloging is
 also an exception.

I think this is a good policy.


 Richard


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[Zope-dev] Zope 2.7 and objects turning into None

2004-02-19 Thread Richard Jones
On Friday 20 February 2004 05:52, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 We have a report for Zope 2.7 about an object magically turning
 into None (1 or 2 weeks ago).

Sorry, I haven't been following this thread, but I will note that I've seen 
(repeatably) in my test Zope environment this behaviour.

This is probably unrelated though...

For me, the situation comes about when I am loading up my fresh (ie. clean 
ZODB) test Zope with a thousand users. While the load script is running (it 
runs on the command-line and goes TTW using urllib to register the users) if 
I access a page which summarises all users, I *sometimes* get None for some 
of the users. The page uses a Catalog to find basic user info, and sometimes 
uses getObject() to find the real user object. The getObject() appears to 
return None sometimes.

Once the load is complete, I don't see any errors. So I blame some mechanism 
failing under load. I also often see ReadConflictErrors, but I understand 
they're going away soon :)


 Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] How to make Zope fail nicely under high load?

2004-02-11 Thread Richard Jones
On Thursday 12 February 2004 01:23, Casey Duncan wrote:
 What kinds of requests are these? Do they all require a dynamic output?
 If not, then you should put better caching in front of Zope, or at a
 minimum tweak you caching headers so that some could be served as 304s
 for instance.

 If they are all dynamic, how dynamic? How different is the page for one
 session than another? If much of the page is the same then you might
 benefit from an ESI approach where you cache parts of pages and assemble
 them in the cache, serving only small pieces from Zope.

 I'm a bit surprised that you have not (from what I can see), used the
 most common Zope speedup (and often the cheapest overall): Buy more
 hardware and use ZEO.

I was going to suggest these things too. And a bunch of other stuff. A while 
ago, I wrote a page about making Zope go faster - it might help.

  http://zope.org/Members/richard/docs/zope_optimisation.html


 Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Very fast requests beating ZODB commits...

2003-10-14 Thread Richard Jones
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:25 pm, Richard Jones wrote:
 1. request comes in which modifies ZODB
 2. code handling request replies with REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect()
 3. redirected page uses data input at step 1 (specifically, it's auth info)
but that info hasn't been committed yet, so we get errors

Ehem. Operator error (confusion) ... nothing to see, move along.


   Richard


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[Zope-dev] Very fast requests beating ZODB commits...

2003-10-13 Thread Richard Jones
I'm seeing the following behaviour in Zope2.7b2 (python 2.3.2) on a relatively 
fast computer (Athlon 1.8GHz):

1. request comes in which modifies ZODB
2. code handling request replies with REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect()
3. redirected page uses data input at step 1 (specifically, it's auth info)
   but that info hasn't been committed yet, so we get errors

So I've modified the method at step #1 to get_transaction().commit() before 
doing the redirect(), but I'm usually a little concerned when I have to 
invoke the transaction machinery directly like this...

Any thoughts? Is there some way to hold the redirect off until after the 
transaction is committed normally?


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-29 Thread Richard Jones
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:16 am, Evan Simpson wrote:
 OK, I've checked in a sample implementation on evan-pathprefix-branch.
   It allows for registering prefixes with:

This seems very nice. I'm not likely to actually have a chance to play with it 
any time soon though, so I can't really comment on how it works in 
practise...


   Richard


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[Zope-dev] TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-22 Thread Richard Jones
During the Melbourne Zope3 Sprint, someone ran up against a situation where 
they'd have liked to have TALES perform a tuple unpacking like Python can. 
I've just run into a similar situation :)

Say a method listFilesByUser returns a list of (user, [files]) it'd be nice to 
be able to::

   tal:repeat=user,files here/listFilesByUser

or similar. Currently we would have to use a python: expression to manually 
unpack the tuple. Kinda yucky.

Any comments?


   Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] More on the getId issue...

2003-07-04 Thread Richard Jones
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On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 04:50  AM, Dieter Maurer wrote:
Richard Jones wrote at 2003-7-1 12:03 +1000:
...
PageTemplateFile (via Script and SimpleItem) inherits Item. This class
has an attribute id set to '' by default. PageTemplateFiles don't 
use
id though, they use __name__. The getId implementation that
PageTemplateFiles use has some mention of __name__ in it, but it'll
never get used because:

 id = ''
 def getId(self):
 name=getattr(self, 'id', None)
 if callable(name):
 return name()
 if name is not None:
 return name
 if hasattr(self, '__name__'):
 return self.__name__
 raise AttributeError, 'This object has no id'
This is funny code indeed...

   Obviously, the code starting with line 4 in the function
   can only be executed by hackers.
Please file a bug report.
Or I could just fix it with the modified version I posted :)

   Richard
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[Zope-dev] PageTemplateFiles considered anonymous?

2003-06-30 Thread Richard Jones
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PageTemplateFiles don't have an id attribute set when they're created 
- - they have a __name__ instead. This causes functions like 
getPhysicalPath (and the related absolute_url) to break in fun ways :)

The SimpleItem.Item_w__name__ mixin was created for pretty much this 
situation. Any objections to adding that mixin to PageTemplateFile by 
default instead of the vanilla SimpleItem.Item?

Also, is there a reason why Item_w__name__ doesn't define getId() when 
it does define _setId()?

Richard
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[Zope-dev] More on the getId issue...

2003-06-30 Thread Richard Jones
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In my last email, I said Also, is there a reason why Item_w__name__ 
doesn't define getId() when it does define _setId()? This question 
doesn't really capture the essence of the problem. In a nutshell, the 
following happened...

PageTemplateFile (via Script and SimpleItem) inherits Item. This class 
has an attribute id set to '' by default. PageTemplateFiles don't use 
id though, they use __name__. The getId implementation that 
PageTemplateFiles use has some mention of __name__ in it, but it'll 
never get used because:

id = ''
def getId(self):
name=getattr(self, 'id', None)
if callable(name):
return name()
if name is not None:
return name
if hasattr(self, '__name__'):
return self.__name__
raise AttributeError, 'This object has no id'
Note the default value of None in the getattr at the start, and then 
the test for None later on. Oh, hang on, except we've got a *class* 
level default value for id of ''. Ehem. I suspect that the if name 
is not None test *should* read
if name. And there doesn't need to be the default value for the 
getattr.

I have no idea how much code that assumes that objects will at least 
have an id of '' will break.

My proposed new getId() method:

def getId(self):
name = self.id
if callable(name):
return name()
if name:
return name
if hasattr(self, '__name__'):
return self.__name__
raise AttributeError, 'This object has no id'
Richard
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Re: FHS, zopectl, #925, Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 installation

2003-06-20 Thread Richard Jones
On Friday 20 June 2003 04:57 pm, PieterB wrote:
  On Friday 20 June 2003 01:19 am, Jean Jordaan wrote:
   There's only one possible way! A-A-P! (A good match for Ape, Shane ;)
   It's a replacement for make by Bram Moolenaar, the author of Vim, and
   it looks like it does a lot of things Right.
 
  Sorry, I haven't really been paying attention so this might be completely
  OT. It *sounds* like it's being suggested that we replace make (given
  the above statement). Has anyone used SCons? http://www.scons.org/
  Richard

 I think the default Zope install should not have dependencies other
 than that Python is required and the user has some shell system
 (bash/sh/MS batchfiles).

... and aap apparently ;)


 About Scons: I never heard of it before

It's been around for quite a while. It's based on the winning design for 
software construction tools (ie. make replacement) in the Software 
Carpentry contest (the website of which has vanished from the web now so 
you'll have to rely on the info at scons.org). It's certainly been around for 
longer than aap :)


 but it's not suitable for my
 task. I want to create something that can easily interact with FreeBSD
 ports

Fair enough - as I mentioned, I haven't been paying close attention to the 
thread. My virtual ears pricked up when mention was made of replacing make 
;)


 , and is more stable than 0.14 alpha

I note with a grin that up until this month aap was at release 0.150 :)



Richard


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Re: FHS, zopectl, #925, Re: [Zope-dev] 2.7 installation

2003-06-19 Thread Richard Jones
On Friday 20 June 2003 01:19 am, Jean Jordaan wrote:
 There's only one possible way! A-A-P! (A good match for Ape, Shane ;)
 It's a replacement for make by Bram Moolenaar, the author of Vim, and
 it looks like it does a lot of things Right.

Sorry, I haven't really been paying attention so this might be completely OT. 
It *sounds* like it's being suggested that we replace make (given the above 
statement). Has anyone used SCons? http://www.scons.org/



Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: DBtab and BDBStorage

2003-06-06 Thread Richard Jones
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 06:17 AM, Shane Hathaway wrote:
- Use ZEO.  It makes starting/stopping Zope much faster and isolates 
the application from the database.
I've noticed that this pattern doesn't hold with Zope 2.7 as it 
currently stands. Even on a powerful machine the ZEO clients can take 
quite some time to start up. Does anyone know why this might be? I'm 
talking here about a brand-new ZEO server with practically empty ZODB. 
No additional Products.

   Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZEO install/runtime issues

2003-05-29 Thread Richard Jones
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 04:38 AM, Jeremy Hylton wrote:
[Please followup to zodb-dev.]

You made some changes to the mkzeoinst.py script in April.  I was busy
then, and I've just had a chance to look at the changes now.  I'd like
to discuss some of the changes, and I'm including a wider discussion
list to make sure we include anyone else who is interested.
A number of the changes are Zope specific.  (For example, you can't 
even
run mkzeoinst.py without having a directory named Zope hanging off of
sys.path.)  ZEO and ZODB are intended for use separately from the rest
of Zope, so we need to find a way to factor this out into a generic
configuration and a Zope-specific configuration.
Go for it :)  [I'm in hard-core product development mode for a few 
months, so apart from critical Zope bugfixes along the way I'll not 
really be much use, sorry ... even Roundup is taking the back seat for 
a while ;)]

Perhaps Zope's mkzeoinstance should have all that Zope-specific stuff, 
and only hook into the mkzeoinst module for some of the generic 
functions. there may even be some more potential for sharing of code 
between mkzeoinstance and mkzopeinstance.


The other question I have is about the organization of software into a
Zope home and an instance home.  I'm not sure what the history of this
arrangement is, but I recommend that people do not configure their ZEO
servers to share software with their Zope app servers.  It can cause
fairly severe problems!
I was completely unaware of this, and have always run ZEO servers with 
the full complement of Products. I have no immediate suggestion for a 
solution to this problem. The big issue is really how are (potentially 
dumb, point-n-click) users to know that they need to install product 
X in their ZEO server but not product Y? Dieter's solution of some 
configuration variable controlling this sounds like a really good idea, 
if possible.

Richard
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Re: [Zope-dev] Creating a fully stand-alone Zope Page Templates

2003-02-25 Thread Richard Jones
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 1:26 am, Kevin Smith wrote:
 This works!!  Thank you!  Do you keep your Page Templates up-to-date
 with Zope's, or is this version going to stay the way it is from now
 on?  It looks like you did what I was trying to do (i.e. put a wrapper
 around the existing code) so that updates only required you to get the
 newest version of Page Templates from Zope and plug them in.

I keep track of bug fixes, but nothing else. ZPT is a stable product, so bug 
reports are rare. The multilingual implementation (which I'm not completely 
up to speed with) was happening while I was doing my port, so I don't have 
any of that. I also can't just update from the ZPT CVS any more.


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Creating a fully stand-alone Zope Page Templates

2003-02-25 Thread Richard Jones
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 1:53 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
  Hurm. I can't answer this directly, but I have done the same as you and
  divorced ZPT completely from Zope for Roundup. See http://roundup.sf.net/
  in the roundup.cgi.[PageTemplates|TAL|ZTUtils] packages.

 I wonder if it would be worth our while to make sure that ZPT is
 separately usable, just like we do for ZODB?

I've made that suggestion numerous times on the ZPT mailing list, with zero 
response.


 Just how much did you have to change to divorce ZPT from Zope?

I've fully documented it (as required by the ZPT license). In a nutshell:

- implemented MultiMapping as simple python modules
- changed the way macros are handled to remove the computed attribute stuff 
(since it's an acquisition trick)
- removed all references to acquisition (for cleanliness, no other reason) 
including some ZTUtils that won't work without it (ie. tree stuff)
- altered the import statements so that I wouldn't clash with another version 
of ZPT if it were installed (or if Roundup was installed as a Zope Product)
- significantly improved error reporting :)

The critical change is the way that the macros are handled. The 
ComputedAttribute stuff just doesn't make sense (and is horribly complicated) 
when you're not using acquisition. The good news is that TAL requires no 
changes if you implement a dummy zLOG. I ended up removing the dependency.


 Richard



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Re: [Zope-dev] Creating a fully stand-alone Zope Page Templates

2003-02-24 Thread Richard Jones
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:07 am, Kevin Smith wrote:
 I am trying to make a stand-alone Page Templates packages that doesn't
 have any Zope dependencies.  I was able to short circuit security and
 acquisition.  I re-implemented MultiMapping in plain Python and made
 the Base class just an empty class.

 This is passing most of the regression tests, but there is one big
 issue left.  When a page template invokes something that is a function,
 it prints the equivalent of 'repr(function)' instead of 'function()'.
 What magic that goes on within Zope am I missing in my wrapper?

Hurm. I can't answer this directly, but I have done the same as you and 
divorced ZPT completely from Zope for Roundup. See http://roundup.sf.net/ in 
the roundup.cgi.[PageTemplates|TAL|ZTUtils] packages.


Richard


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[Zope-dev] Re: Reports of CallProfiler not working with Zope 2.5.x were greatly exagerated :-) (was Re: CallProfiler?)

2002-10-17 Thread Richard Jones
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 6:07 am, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
 CallProfiler wasn't profiling ZPTs because they've been renamed/moved
 from Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplates.PageTemplates to
 Products.PageTemplates.ZopePageTemplate.ZopePageTemplate. Here's a patch
 to make it work again.

I'll see about patching it and release a new version for 2.5 (not supporting 
2.4 any more).


 BTW, does anyone know what a MLDTMLMethod from a MLDTML product (in
 CallProfiler/CallProfiler.py:124-125) is?

It's our in-house multilingual support ;)


 Anyway, I'm still wondering whatever happened to the CallProfiler
 integration plans. I see there are anthony-CallProfiler-something
 branches in CVS, but I couldn't make anything of them (probably my CVS
 inexperience). Anyone knows anything about this?

Sorry, both Anthony and I ran out of tuits before the 2.6 release. I believe 
the final integration was simply lost somewhere between Anthony and Brian - 
but they'd know what the exact situation is.


 PS: Richard, I'm CCing this to you because you mentioned you're
 accepting patches and I don't know if you subscribe to zope-dev.

Thanks, but I'm on -dev ;)


Richard



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[Zope-dev] Re: Future of StructuredText

2002-09-05 Thread Richard Jones

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 1:23 pm, Simon Michael wrote:
 Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  The doc I read listed a large number of rules, including many that seemed
  to want to exert more control over my text than they should.  (I had a

 I tracked it down - it was the example rST PEP posted in comp.lang.python.
 So that would explain it. I read stuff like the below as being part of
 rST, when presumably they are a PEP thing.

You are correct - the formatting restrictions have been carried over from PEP 
9 to PEP 12.


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Future of StructuredText

2002-09-04 Thread Richard Jones

[courtesy cc send to David G, so if I make any blatantly errneous statements 
 he can come chase me with the Big Stick :)]

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 8:01 pm, Max M wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote:
 I would be fine to have reStructuredText inside the Zope core (for 2.7)
 and to deprecate the current StructuredText in the long run.

 +1

+1 but with the reservations below :)


 Open points: how to migrate exisiting STX documents to reStructuredText

 Wouldn't the simplest solution be:

 dtml-var content format=rest  ???

 Then we could use both interchangably.

One of the big issues is that rest isn't optimised. I don't know what the 
scope is for optimising rest, nor have I got any real benchmark numbers. The 
emphasis so far has been to build it to spec. It's potentially much slower 
than stx because the latter has been around for longer and therefore is 
potentially more tweaked. The ReStructuredText Document works because I 
compile the source text into HTML when it's written. Nice and fast, and works 
well in content management environments. In the above DTML tag usage though, 
you'd want content to be quite small or the performance hit could be large. 

I believe migration may be possible - that is, the parser half of rest might 
be mutable enough to make it handle stx blocks and other syntax 
eccentricities. That's a question for David Goodger to answer really. As I 
understand it though, there's ambiguities in stx that the rest parser might 
not interpret in the same manner as the stx parser. The docutils/rest project 
has an analysis of the stx format:

http://docutils.sourceforge.net/spec/rst/problems.html


  Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of StructuredText

2002-09-04 Thread Richard Jones

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 2:24 am, Simon Michael wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote:
  I would be fine to have reStructuredText inside the Zope core (for 2.7)
  and to deprecate the current StructuredText in the long run.

 My two cents - there are some things in rST I would like to have but I
 think it has gone too far with it's rules.

This seems to be a common argument, and I honestly can't understand it. I'm 
not going argue it here, I'll just point you all to the primer document 
which outlines the basics of ReST:

http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickstart.html


   Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [OT] digital signature

2002-04-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:02, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 I want a *good* mail program. :-/

I recommend KMail for those who prefer a GUI reader.

   http://kmail.kde.org/

It boasts an impressive list of features, including the invaluable SSL POP and 
SMTP connections and really well-integrated Identity support.


Richard



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Re: [Zope-dev] Call Profiler strangeness - lots of ZODB transactions

2002-04-08 Thread Richard Jones

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:29, Toby Dickenson wrote:
 On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:30:56 +1100, Richard Jones

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm investigating why our product ZODB is growing when it shouldn't. I've
 found that the undo log has entries in it every five minutes saying
 Installed product CallProfiler by Zope. More infrequently (not
  regularly) we also have Installed product ZOracleDA by Zope.

 Was zope restarting (or being restarted) every five minutes?

No, but it is being pinged. By that, I mean that we have a script that tries 
to access the ZEO server every five minutes to make sure it's all OK. The 
script does the following::

  import sys, os
  sys.path.append('/app/zope/zopecontrol_code/')
  sys.path.insert(0, '/app/zope/zopecontrol_code/lib/python')
  os.environ['ZEOPORT'] = '8076'
  os.environ['ZEOHOST'] = 'devhost1.off.ekorp.com'
  import Zope
  # now do stuff with the Zope.app() (we don't actually have to do anything
  # to trigger the ZODB note generation - the import is enough)

Now, the problem lies in the way that the CallProfiler gets itself into the 
Control Panel. This code was copied from the LeakFinder product, so I assume 
it'll have the same problem. The code is::

 def installControlPanel(context, panelClass):
from App.ApplicationManager import ApplicationManager
from Acquisition import aq_base
app = context._ProductContext__app
cp = app.Control_Panel
id = panelClass.id
if 0: # Enable to clean up the control panel.
try: del cp._objects
except: pass
cp.id # Unghostify.
if hasattr(cp, id):
return cp._getOb(id)
if cp.__dict__.has_key('_objects'):
# _objects has been overridden.  We have to persist.
existing = getattr(aq_base(cp), id, None)
if existing is None or existing.__class__ != panelClass:
cp._setObject(id, panelClass())
else:
# Don't persist what we don't have to.
objects = ApplicationManager._objects
objects = filter(lambda o, id=id: o['id'] != id, objects)
ApplicationManager._objects = objects + (
{'id':id, 'meta_type':panelClass.meta_type},)
try: delattr(cp, id)
except: pass
setattr(ApplicationManager, id, panelClass())
return cp._getOb(id)

Where panelClass is my Product's class.

When the ping script imports Zope, the product is installed. If it's 
installed as a regular product, using context.registerClass, all is OK. If 
it is installed using the above function, I get ZODB transaction notes of the 
form Installed product CallProfiler by Zope   2002-04-08 11:14:10 PM.

It's all a bit black magic for me though. I honestly don't know why half of 
the function above actually exists. I'm going to keep looking though, but if 
someone could help, I'd be extremely grateful.


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Call Profiler strangeness - lots of ZODB transactions

2002-04-08 Thread Richard Jones

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:27, Richard Jones wrote:
 On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:29, Toby Dickenson wrote:
  On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:30:56 +1100, Richard Jones
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm investigating why our product ZODB is growing when it shouldn't.
   I've found that the undo log has entries in it every five minutes
   saying Installed product CallProfiler by Zope. More infrequently (not
   regularly) we also have Installed product ZOracleDA by Zope.
 
  Was zope restarting (or being restarted) every five minutes?

 No, but it is being pinged. By that, I mean that we have a script that
 tries to access the ZEO server every five minutes to make sure it's all OK.
 The script does the following::

   import sys, os
   sys.path.append('/app/zope/zopecontrol_code/')
   sys.path.insert(0, '/app/zope/zopecontrol_code/lib/python')
   os.environ['ZEOPORT'] = '8076'
   os.environ['ZEOHOST'] = 'devhost1.off.ekorp.com'
   import Zope
   # now do stuff with the Zope.app() (we don't actually have to do anything
   # to trigger the ZODB note generation - the import is enough)

Setting the environment var ZEO_CLIENT stops the message - but I guess I'd 
like to know why this product is causing the message when none of the others 
are. It's all due to the code in installControlPanel, and I'd rather it not 
be dodgy :)


Richard


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[Zope-dev] Call Profiler strangeness - lots of ZODB transactions

2002-03-25 Thread Richard Jones

I'm investigating why our product ZODB is growing when it shouldn't. I've 
found that the undo log has entries in it every five minutes saying 
Installed product CallProfiler by Zope. More infrequently (not regularly) 
we also have Installed product ZOracleDA by Zope.

The Call Profiler was designed specifically not to hit the ZODB - it's 
in-memory only with. Our setup consists of seven ZEO clients talking to the 
one ZEO server - the one that's getting all these hits in the ZODB.

Does anyone else see this happening?

Anyone have any ideas why we're seeing this behaviour?


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Structured text issues (again?)

2002-03-20 Thread Richard Jones

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How extensively is STX actually used? I've been looking at it myself
 recently, and the whole system seem rather simplistic to me in how it
 parses the text. I'm talking specifically  of the STX version currently
 standard in Zope 2.5 (and 2.4 I think), which I believe is STXNG; 

 [snip]

 I explain the problems I see next, followed by a proposed algorithm
 change and some rough code to make things better.

Please also see the ReStructureText effort which addresses a lot of the 
problems that STXNG is perceived to have. It's really very nice, and one of 
these days I hope to get it wrapped in a Zope Product.

   http://structuredtext.sf.net/

Note specifically:

   http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net/spec/problems.txt

If something you see as being a problem in STXNG isn't addressed there, I'm 
sure the author of ReST would love to hear about it!


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] MonkeyPatching in the Core (was: Zope 2.6 planning)

2002-03-04 Thread Richard Jones

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:20, Brian Lloyd wrote:
 Seb wrote:
   Pros - a tiny performance gain
   Cons - unpredictable interaction with future products; not a well-known
  method of distributing products; not easily discoverable

 What if, instead of the static list of callable info that the CP
 currently uses, Zope objects could register themselves as profilable?
 We would then make sure that the object types that CP handles now
 register themselves, but other products that we don't know (or
 have to know) about could register themselves too if they wanted.

This doesn't really address the concern I have with regard to the con given 
above. The main reason is that the call profiler's monkeypatching is done 
potentially many times, and it performs an unpatch as well as a patch. This 
muckery can potentially really stuff over other components that also 
monkeypatch the same methods. Especially if they _also_ perform unpatching.

I'm not sure the consentual monkeypatch approach really solves this issue... 
and if the product has to be modified to make it register itself with the 
profiler, why not just have it include the (very simple) calls to the 
profiler instead?


Richard

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[Zope-dev] CallProfiler (was: MonkeyPatching in the Core (was: Zope 2.6 planning))

2002-03-04 Thread Richard Jones

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:54, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 The call profiler seems to be a very popular feature, and it seems to
 provide very useful information. It's not rock solid yet (I am sure I even
 remember it's author saying this a day or so ago)

Any idea what I might have been referring to? I don't recall having said 
anything about the profiler in any forums except these about any topic other 
than integrating it into the core. And certainly nothing about stability.

Mind you, I was quite ill late last week, and I might have unwittingly sent 
some email off in my delerious state... :)


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 planning - call for contributors!

2002-03-03 Thread Richard Jones

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25, seb bacon wrote:
   Absolutely ... and I would also like to see Richards excellent Call
   Profiler service become part of the core.
 
  I'm definitely putting the profiler into 2.6 - there's just an open
  question of where it gets put. The question was asked on zope-coders, and
  got no response. I figure if no-one answers within a week of my original
  posting, I'll just check it in as a product.

 FWIW, my own opinion is that it should not take the 'MonkeyPatch'
 approach.

That's my opinion too, but I have had no feedback from zope-coders...


   Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 planning - call for contributors!

2002-03-03 Thread Richard Jones

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:40, Casey Duncan wrote:
 I agree, monkey patches are perfect for this. That
 makes them totally transparent to the application and
 Zope for that matter. There's nothing wrong with them
 in the right application.

My main concern is the use of monkeypatching in the core makes it difficult 
for someone else to release a product that also MPs without them worrying 
about whether something has already patched code. Especially when we're 
talking about MP'ing so many core Zope objects (yes, I count 1 as so many 
:)

I think the performance hit is really quite minimal for two if statements at 
the entry and exit point(s) of a function to turn the behaviour on and off.


   Richard

ps. don't forget Anthony, our first reaction when we both thought of this 
approach was *shudder* :)

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 planning - call for contributors!

2002-02-28 Thread Richard Jones

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:17, Eric Roby wrote:
Let's get a discussion
   
started to define 2.6
 
  I'd like to see the ZSyncer Product, or a variant thereof, included in
  Zope by default.  That is, I'd like Synchronization, to a be a default
  property of Zope objects, so that objects/content can be pushed and
  pulled between two Zope installations.
 
  I venture a guess that the development/production model is common,
  and this helps quite a bit in maintaining this model.
 
  Ziniti

 Absolutely ... and I would also like to see Richards excellent Call
 Profiler service become part of the core.

I'm definitely putting the profiler into 2.6 - there's just an open question 
of where it gets put. The question was asked on zope-coders, and got no 
response. I figure if no-one answers within a week of my original posting, 
I'll just check it in as a product.


Richard


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Re: [Zope-dev] Benchmarks: DTML vs. ZPT?

2002-02-07 Thread Richard Jones

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:53, seb bacon wrote:
 Hi!

 It wouldn't surprise me - ZPT has the roughly the same overheads as DTML
 for the language parsing, but a presentation template goes through an
 HTML parser in addition - which is always going to be quite slow in
 python.

That's only during parsing - the result of the ZPT parse is a highly 
optimised rendering structure.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Call Profiler

2002-02-04 Thread Richard Jones

On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 21:42, seb bacon wrote:
 On Sun, 2002-02-03 at 21:58, Richard Jones wrote:
  On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:53, seb bacon wrote:
   I wrote:
I've just announced our Call Profiler product on zope.org and the
zope announce list (waiting for people in different timezones to
authorise them :) ( http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/CallProfiler/
 for the impatient)
  
   This is absolutely excellent, well done and thanks :)  I added various
   FSObjects to the profiled modules list and have been looking at my CMF
   systems - it's really instructive.
 
  Please send me the config entries for them. Also, if anyone has used ZPT
  with it, let me know if my guess of the config for them is correct :)

 in profileable_modules:

 'FSPythonScript': Profileable('Products.CMFCore.FSPythonScript',
 'FSPythonScript', '__call__'),
 'FSDTMLMethod': Profileable('Products.CMFCore.FSDTMLMethod',
 'FSDTMLMethod', '__call__'),
 'FSPageTemplate': Profileable('Products.CMFCore.FSPageTemplate',
 'FSPageTemplate', '__call__'),

Thanks!


   - the trace for a complete template could be slightly clearer.  The
   colour coding for the start and end of a module could have a clear
   legend, for example.
 
  I'll put a legend in. Is the colour coding what you meant by clearer or
  is there something else?

 Yes, that's what I meant.

OK, it's done. Will be in the next release (probably today :)


  Actually, another thing just occurred to me:
 the meaning of the ... ellipsis is not clear - I think you need a
 different symbol to emphasise the hierarchy (perhaps a vertical bar?)

OK, I'll look into it. The '...' is definitely a placeholder :)


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Call Profiler

2002-02-03 Thread Richard Jones

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:53, seb bacon wrote:
 I wrote:
  I've just announced our Call Profiler product on zope.org and the zope
  announce list (waiting for people in different timezones to authorise
  them :) ( http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/CallProfiler/  for the
  impatient)

 This is absolutely excellent, well done and thanks :)  I added various
 FSObjects to the profiled modules list and have been looking at my CMF
 systems - it's really instructive.

Please send me the config entries for them. Also, if anyone has used ZPT with 
it, let me know if my guess of the config for them is correct :)


  On one hand, the performance hit when dynamically patching the methods is
  zero when the product is not active, but it does mean diddling with
  methods that really probably should be left alone. On the other hand,
  having changes to the core code to test for profiling being enabled
  introduces a small performance hit even when profiling is not activated.

 You could do this check only if zope is being run in debug mode; then
 there would be zero perormance hit in production sites.

No, there's still the performance check for am I in debug mode? which is 
equivalent to am I in profiling mode?. Sure, it's small, but it's there.


  Any comments?

 I think the reporting could do with some usability improvements.  It's
 good now, but takes a while to navigate round.

Yep, I know :)


 - All the reports could benefit from being sortable by column.

In the works already :)


 - the trace for a complete template could be slightly clearer.  The
 colour coding for the start and end of a module could have a clear
 legend, for example.

I'll put a legend in. Is the colour coding what you meant by clearer or is 
there something else? 


 - there needs to be some solution for really long URLs, which require
 lots of horizontal scrolling - just displaying the final parts of the
 path, with the rest of the url hidden somehow?

Yep, that's a good idea.


 I can't think of exactly what else I would do to improve it right now

I've already got some more code in place that I'm testing right now which 
does aggregation of matching result profiles. That is, if a request results 
in the same call profile, the timings are aggregated into min/average/max. 
Really neat :)

Thanks for the feedback!


Richard

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[Zope-dev] Call Profiler

2002-01-31 Thread Richard Jones

I've just announced our Call Profiler product on zope.org and the zope 
announce list (waiting for people in different timezones to authorise them :)
  ( http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/CallProfiler/  for the impatient)

In a nutshell, it patches the rendering guts of DTMLMethod, ZSQL, etc. and 
the ZPublisher so that we can get timing marks for requests as the calls are 
made. The patching is quite simple (once I got the hang of it ;) and 
reversible, and means that there's no changes required to the Zope core to 
enable the testing (which our initial versions did).

It does pose a question though: would it be better to have support for this 
stuff in the core, or is it OK for a product like this to dynamically patch 
the call methods when it needs to?

On one hand, the performance hit when dynamically patching the methods is 
zero when the product is not active, but it does mean diddling with methods 
that really probably should be left alone. On the other hand, having changes 
to the core code to test for profiling being enabled introduces a small 
performance hit even when profiling is not activated.

Any comments?


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Call Profiler

2002-01-31 Thread Richard Jones

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:10, Anthony Baxter wrote:
  Richard Jones wrote
 
  I've just announced our Call Profiler product on zope.org and the zope
  announce list (waiting for people in different timezones to authorise
  them :) ( http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/CallProfiler/  for the
  impatient)

 ... Richard had made my initial vile hack actually work in a way that
 didn't cause bleeding from the brain) 

No comment ;)


 Unfortunately, the existing python profiling stuff is at too low a
 level to be useful - this stuff really fills a need.

Although being able to tie this into the python profiler would _rock_ in 
terms of profiling websites that use a mix of DTML/ZPT and Python products. 
Even it it's just to get the timing marks where the higher level stuff like 
DTML/ZPT calls out to the python code (ie. getting timing for the python 
calls at the highest level)


 Plus, if it's integrated into Zope, Richard doesn't have to spend work
 time on maintaining it :)

But I do have time for screenshots - there's some up on the product page now 
for those who have a short curiosity span :)


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Roundup?

2001-12-04 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 05 December 2001 04:01, Chris Withers wrote:
 Richard Jones wrote:
  plug
 
http://roundup.sf.net/
 
... is in heavy development, but is also being used right now.
 
  /plug

 Well, it's written in Python, so probably a good candidate.

 Could it be integrated into Zope?

Roundup has complete flexibility in the front and back ends.

It comes with a web, command-line and e-mail interface and it shouldn't be 
too hard to add a Zope front-end. Modifying the existing web interface to be 
a Zope front-end would probably be quite simple.

It comes with anydbm and bsddb back-ends (and a dormant, not-quite-working 
bsddb3 back-end), and defining more is pretty simple.


   Richard

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Re: SV: [Zope-dev] Fishbowl?

2001-12-03 Thread Richard Jones

On Saturday 01 December 2001 02:29, Magnus Heino wrote:
  3. We could use another open source tool. Bugzilla springs to
  mind. Yes, it's not Zope, or even python, but it does
  work, certainly better than anything we, as a community, have
  right now or could build in the time it would take to
  install and set up.

 Well, I'm not too sure about that. Bugzilla is an undocumented, hacked,
 run-at-one-place-but-dont-try-to-move-it-beast. imho. Just like
 sourceforge...

 I gave it a try a while ago, but threw it away.

plug

  http://roundup.sf.net/

  ... is in heavy development, but is also being used right now.

/plug


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] compilezpy (compileall)

2001-11-21 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 21 November 2001 19:49, Danny William Adair wrote:
 On Wednesday 21 November 2001 18:41, Richard Jones wrote:
  On Wednesday 21 November 2001 16:34, Danny William Adair wrote:
   As from what I know (leaving aside for a moment that I basically know
   nothing), Zope should be _started_ as root, but then be _running_ as
   nobody. This does make sense to me, in a couple of ways. :-)
  
   Do you know when or where this switch to nobody is performed?
 
  in z2[s].py   (lines 831 onwards in z2s.py)

 Cool!
 This sounds like a really cool answer - just the kind I love - but...
 I have never seen a z2s.py, and z2.py has less than 800 lines.
 Please tell me where I'm being thick here...

You're not - z2s is from M2Crypto and is a modified z2.py that's used to 
control the SSL-enabled Zope.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] compilezpy (compileall)

2001-11-20 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 21 November 2001 15:12, Danny William Adair wrote:
 I wondered if this (see subject) was totally necessary during the
 installation. My Zope installation seems to run fine when I delete all the
 *.pyc and just start it. Obviously it runs slower the first time, but
 that's all I can see.

If the server is run as nobody, that user probably won't have permission to 
write the compiled bytecodes to disk.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] compilezpy (compileall)

2001-11-20 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 21 November 2001 16:34, Danny William Adair wrote:
 As from what I know (leaving aside for a moment that I basically know
 nothing), Zope should be _started_ as root, but then be _running_ as
 nobody. This does make sense to me, in a couple of ways. :-)

 Do you know when or where this switch to nobody is performed?

in z2[s].py   (lines 831 onwards in z2s.py)



Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] file descriptors on Solaris - IT'S A BUG, PEOPLE!

2001-10-03 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 03 October 2001 22:00, R. David Murray wrote:
 On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, John Ziniti wrote:
  Yeah ... something tells me it's a little more complicated than that.

 Like recompiling the kernel, quite possibly.  On FreeBSD there's
 a sysctl, although you may still have to recompile the kernel in
 some cases I think; on Linux you can zap a variable in proc.  On
 solariswho knows wry grin.

  Any advice on the other front?  If I can reduce the number of files
  Zope needs to process this request, I'd grumpily agree to do that,
  is Zope opening a file for every input name=x.name:records?
  Will using input name=x_names:list help?

 I don't see why zope should need so many file descriptors.  But
 you may have to start tracing code frown.

As I mentioned yesterday, this is a _bug_ in cgi.py which is fixable by 
getting the patch from:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470atid=105470func=detailaid=231249


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] file descriptors on Solaris - IT'S A BUG, PEOPLE!

2001-10-03 Thread Richard Jones

[cc'ed to zope-dev so people can check this information]

On Thursday 04 October 2001 13:47, Joseph Wayne Norton wrote:
 One related question that I have regarding cgi.py and zope.

 Would there be any compatibility problem of applying the following
 older cgi hotfix to python's cgi.py file and usage with Zope 2.4.1 and
 higher?

   python cgi hotfix:
 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470atid=105470func=detailaid=4
43120

   zope hotfix:
 http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/Hotfix_2001-07-25/README.txt

 My understanding is that the zope hotfix is not required for version
 2.4.1 and higher.

Zope 2.4.1 includes the hotfix. The hotfix does not fix the too many open 
files problem. I don't believe there's any compatibility problems (we're 
using both OK here).


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] file descriptors on Solaris [SUMMARY]

2001-10-02 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 03 October 2001 04:50, John Ziniti wrote:
 DIAGNOSIS:
 It appears that this only happens when the form is specified with
 enctype=multipart/form-data.  In that case, Zope (or, more accurately,
 the cgi module), tries to create temporary file for each form input,
 no matter what type the input has ... (I think but I can't be 100%
 sure about that).  This seems a little weird.  Why do we have to open
 a file for each part just because it *may* contain a file?

This is a bug in python's cgi module that has been patched (but not in python 
2.1.1). There's a patch on sourceforge for it in any case. 

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470atid=105470func=detailaid=231249

No fiddling with max open files required.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows/Mac OS X: BatteriesIncludedDistribution

2001-09-30 Thread Richard Jones

On Friday 28 September 2001 22:05, Paul Everitt wrote:
 Whew, what a proposal and what a good sign!

 As several have noted, there are quite a few proposals in the fishbowl
 that deal with different aspects of the problems.  There's also a draft
 proposal that we had here in ZC that expands on the items.  Finally,
 there appear to be a few pieces of software (yours, zctl, zopectl, etc.)
 that try to address aspects.

 I suggest that we all spend some time trying to revisit all the
 proposals, obsolete the ones that are covered elsewhere, and try to find
 the common ground.  There is a dorman zope-packagers mailing list we
 could hijack for these purposes:

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-packagers/

 I think, with all the various efforts, it is time to agree on some
 standards regarding where configuration data lives and how it looks.

OK, I've joined that list. I did not realise the worm can was this big :)


   Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Distributing Zope one of our products

2001-09-26 Thread Richard Jones

On Thursday 27 September 2001 00:37, Simon Coles wrote:
 But of course at the moment we have to get them to:
   - install Zope
   - get, expand, and install the CMF (which is distributed as a .tgz,
 rather confounding Windows users)
   - get our product and expand/install it
   - then log in as the inituser, create a normal user, log out, log back
 in, create an ELN, then log out, then access the ELN, and join in the
 normal CMF fashion

What you're describing is exactly the issues (well, some of them :) that 
we've addressed in making Zope a viable out-of-the-box product for our 
commercial product. A result of our efforts are the two GUIs that we're 
making available - the Mac OS X and Windows Zope Controllers.

  http://www.bizarsoftware.com.au/resource_centre/articles/open_source.html

Note, the screenshots are a little different to the current version - but the 
general idea is still the same.

I hope to make a batteries included Zope distribution for both platforms 
that include the controllers and some pre-installed products. We don't know 
which products they'll be yet because the idea's still very young :)

Fishbowl proposal has been created - I'm announcing it in another thread.


Richard

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[Zope-dev] Zope on Windows/Mac OS X: BatteriesIncludedDistribution

2001-09-26 Thread Richard Jones

I've just created the follwing fishbowl proposal:

  http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/BatteriesIncludedDistribution

Please read and comment.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 16:26, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 I have to disagree about the Zope (%s), I have been known to run 2 or 3
 Zope services, for different instances, and I always know that I can find
 them all huddled together at the bottom of the Service Manager - Very
 useful.

So does that mean they have different names in the service manager? How do 
you configure the instances?


 Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 16:41, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 I edit the registry... One of my many favourite pass-times, right up there
 with running out in traffic.

 Seriously though, once an instance is configured, why would you want to
 change it? (Assuming you get it right that is)

Mostly the interface is for stopping/starting the server, accessing the log, 
accessing the management screen, adding a manager user (yes, those last two 
are buttons which just open a URL with the default browser), changing the 
emergency user password and generally reporting information about the 
instance.

The (Assuming you get it right that is) is also spot on - people will do 
strange things, and we need a simple interface that we can walk them through 
on the phone, and also an interface that they're unlikely to cause damage 
with (as opposed to editing z2.py or the *gak* registry!)

This interface is _specifically_ targetted at a new breed of zope user. 
Someone who was brought up on a diet of IIS or some other plug-n-play web 
server. Someone who just wants it to work, no registry editing, no config 
file editing. That's who this stuff is targetted at.

I'd say that adding a multi-instance ability would be possible - we'd just 
have to be able to handle multiple config files. We're just not sure how it 
should be handled in the UI :)


 Richard

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[Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Richard Jones

We've got a wonderful zope control panel (which installs into the standard 
windows Control Panel) and zope service which we'll be making available in 
binary and source form this week. Like the Mac OS X controller, this is 
simply a trivial re-branding extension of our work in supporting the 
usability of our Bizar Shop product.

The windows controller works on win95/win98/NT/win2k. It controls a real 
windows service on platforms were services are run (NT/win2k), and otherwise 
controls a service daemon which stays in the system tray. We'll call this 
service Zope, and its job is to lauch python [script] [args] with some 
Zope-specific environment fiddling (INSTANCE_HOME env, cd ${SOFTWARE_HOME}, 
STUPID_LOG_FILE env).

The current method of starting Zope as a windows service using 
PythonService.exe is kludgy, mostly because of the unnecessary layer of 
python. The Zope binary distribution's use of PythonService.exe does the same 
thing that our Zope service does (in the end), which is to lauch python 
z2.py [args].

We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to 
using our code.

Our control panel will be able to control Zope (WebSite), but we probably 
won't offer the ability to configure it (editing the z2[s].py file in-place 
is possible - we do that now - but it's rather hackish).

So, best scenario is that Zope ships with the controller and our service. 
Worst scenario is that the controller is downloaded separately and can only 
stop/start PythonService. In the second case, we'd still ship our service and 
install it - meaning that there'd be two Zope services in the service 
manager, but at least the controller, which appears in the control panel, 
would still be able to fully control Zope.


As a separate issue - we're curious about the naming of the Zope installation 
- why is it called WebSite (and the Zope service Zope (WebSite))? The name 
clashes with another product that's fairly well-known in the windows 
community originally from O'Reilly: http://www.oreilly.com/software/index.html
... and since Zope is a fairly distinctive name ...


Richard

ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 14:23, Andy wrote:
  We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to
  using our code.

 Great, Im really looking forward to an improved Windows installation. But
 lets get it out there play with it before anything major happens like
 shipping Zope with it :)

Fer sure :)


 It is annoying but Zope wins there because OReilly isnt making WebSite
 anymore.

Yeah, they seem to have sold it to someone else...


 Its just a name, I find the Zope (%s) bit more annoying than
 anything :)

Agreed.


  ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

 Thats probably a good idea. What about other issues such as install and
 removing service easily later, STDERR logging not going to /dev/null, lack
 of start menu icons and other windows issues...

These are all things we've addressed, but it'd be good to note them 
somewhere. We've tried to make the process of using Zope (and hence our 
product) as painless to the average Windows user (and Mac user) as possible.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZPL and GPL

2001-06-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:22, Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
 On 25 Jun 2001 10:26:10 -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote:
  According to management, there's a zope-license list somewhere and we
  expect to move to a GPL compatible license. Paul says:
 
  I think the goal should be for Zope and Python to converge on the same
  license, with perhaps the new license being some off-the-shelf license
  like Apache's.

 Hmm. So a BSD style license, then. Are there currently any Zope-derived
 distributions that are proprietary (third-party or DC's)?

Absolutely! We use Zope as a core component in our product that's about to 
hit the shelves.


 If not, does DC anticipate there being this kind of third-party
 proprietary derived distribution in the future?

Absolutely! We have several products in mind that are based on Zope.


 Other than keeping the door open for this eventuality, is there any
 other reason to choose a BSD style license over the GPL?

I think I've answered that question.

We will be distributing the entirety of the source code of all open-source 
components of our product. We cannot distribute the source code of our 
product - that would be sheer foolishness. We've invested about 2 man-years 
in the code, and we're not about to just give that away. Our investors would 
string us up!


Richard

-- 
Richard Jones
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Senior Software Developer, Bizar Software (www.bizarsoftware.com.au)

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Server hanging :-(

2001-06-06 Thread Richard Jones

On Wednesday 06 June 2001 18:03, Erik Enge wrote:
 On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ... at least then we know what the exception is.
 
  Again - try that code in an interactive interpreter if you really want to
  find out what's going on...

 Yeah, thanks, that would work as a workaround, but isn't this buggish
 behaviour?

Absolutely - along with dozens of other places that Zope squashes exceptions. 
Anthony Baxter actually wrote a script that finds instances of bare except: 
clauses in the Zope source...

 http://www.zope.org/Members/anthony/BarewordExcepts

Feel free to find the bad except: and submit a patch...


Richard

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