Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
On 9/27/07, Roger Ineichen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No I excpect some of them, but others excpect others. > So I'm pretty shure if we count all different setup then > we can excpect all packages in the summary. If you think that testing "the whole Zope 3 pile" with the changed egg is something that would help, I'd suggest that's a job for a buildbot. The tests for a specific egg should test the contract for that egg. This includes a lot of things, including the effects of "public" ZCML files. > That's the problem you only solve your problems with > this pattern. but the zope namspace suggest participation. > And you can't ensure quality wiht this point of view. No. When I find that a change is needed in a package, it's because it didn't fulfill it's contract. Changes to the package should include tests that the contract requires and is met by the changes. That helps everyone who depends on the contract of that package. Everything else is out of scope for that package. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "Chaos is the score upon which reality is written." --Henry Miller ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
> Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? [...] > Perhaps after that first step, we could set up something like > Python's > buildbot farm and have people run their Zope 3 application's > tests with > the most recent packages so we know in real time when some > change broke > someone's project (whether it's open source or not). > > As an example, the recent move of a ZCML file out of > zope.app.securitypolicy broke one of my apps (and probably others), > that's the kind of bug I'd like to catch early. Are you suggesting a deploy process which uses a staging server. I mean deploy on a pypi staging, use a builbot which catches packages from a staging server and deploy it if everything is fine? Regards Roger Ineichen > -- > Benji York > Senior Software Engineer > Zope Corporation > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
AW: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
> Betreff: Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? > > On 9/27/07, Benji York <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Second, why would you include all of the zope.* eggs if that > > particular package doesn't depend on them? > > I suspect there are hidden differences in expectations here. ;-) > > Roger, when you assemble an application, are you expecting to > find all of zope.* in the result? No I excpect some of them, but others excpect others. So I'm pretty shure if we count all different setup then we can excpect all packages in the summary. > We're not expecting that in the projects I'm involved in. In > fact, I'd be pretty upset to find a lot of that stuff in > there, and would like to see less of it than I do. That's the problem you only solve your problems with this pattern. but the zope namspace suggest participation. And you can't ensure quality wiht this point of view. > Zope 3 is not an application, and I consider that a good thing. I agree, Zope 3 is not a application, but packages in this namespace can break things outside of your context. That doesn't matter if this are packages in a 3rd party namespace, but this should not happen in the zope namespace. > -Fred > > -- > Fred L. Drake, Jr. > "Chaos is the score upon which reality is written." --Henry Miller > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
AW: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
Hi Benji > Betreff: Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? [...] > Second, why would you include all of the zope.* eggs if that > particular package doesn't depend on them? That's the point which I don't understand that nobody is seeing: Not my egg depends on other packages. Other package depend on the egg I develop. And tests are there for ensure that other eggs will work with my work on a specific egg. Tests are a setup of tools which can ensure that my changes are compatible with existing things. > > Is there a benefit to not depend on all zope.* packages in each egg > > test setup if we do a transition to indvidual packages? > > > > I understand the benefit to have smaller dependencies in > eggs, but I > > still think a egg should run all tests we have in the zope > namespace. > > Like we did in our old trunk setup. > > > This whould allow us to run all zope.* tests during egg development. > > It sounds like it would build the equivalent of the old-style > Zope 3 trunk for each and every zope.* buildout. That sounds > awful. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your proposal. All zope.* tests together are a way to ensure compatibility. I doesn't make sense to me not participate with all tests before a single egg get deployed. Not running all test in a namespace like we have with the zope package namspace, sounds to me that a package which doesn't like to agree on all tests should get move to another namesapce. Regards Roger Ineichen > -- > Benji York > Senior Software Engineer > Zope Corporation > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
On 9/27/07, Benji York <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Second, why would you include all of the zope.* eggs if that particular > package doesn't depend on them? I suspect there are hidden differences in expectations here. ;-) Roger, when you assemble an application, are you expecting to find all of zope.* in the result? We're not expecting that in the projects I'm involved in. In fact, I'd be pretty upset to find a lot of that stuff in there, and would like to see less of it than I do. Zope 3 is not an application, and I consider that a good thing. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "Chaos is the score upon which reality is written." --Henry Miller ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Benji Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? Roger Ineichen wrote: Can anybody tell me why we restrict our test setup in zope eggs and only use a subset of package for our test setup? I don't know what you're asking, so I can't tell you why it is . I mean, we don't use all zope packages in our test dependency if we develop eggs. What was the reason to use a subset of of zope packages for egg testing? e.g. extras_require = dict( test = [ 'zope.testbrowser', 'zope.app.securitypolicy', 'some more zope.* packages but why not all zope.*' ], ), Two things. extras are bad, and shouldn't be used, put test dependencies in the "real" dependencies. Second, why would you include all of the zope.* eggs if that particular package doesn't depend on them? Is there a benefit to not depend on all zope.* packages in each egg test setup if we do a transition to indvidual packages? I understand the benefit to have smaller dependencies in eggs, but I still think a egg should run all tests we have in the zope namespace. Like we did in our old trunk setup. This whould allow us to run all zope.* tests during egg development. It sounds like it would build the equivalent of the old-style Zope 3 trunk for each and every zope.* buildout. That sounds awful. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your proposal. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
Hi > Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? [...] > So what do people think about a pretty comprehensive Zope 3 > meta egg for testing purposes? +1 Tests are written for using and not ignoring them. Otherwise it means we deploy eggs wich are not tested against all zope.* packages which is a very bad idea. Regards Roger Ineichen > Regards, > Stephan ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
AW: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing?
Hi Benji > Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Why do we restrict our egg testing? > > Roger Ineichen wrote: > > Can anybody tell me why we restrict our test setup in zope eggs and > > only use a subset of package for our test setup? > > I don't know what you're asking, so I can't tell you why it is . I mean, we don't use all zope packages in our test dependency if we develop eggs. What was the reason to use a subset of of zope packages for egg testing? e.g. extras_require = dict( test = [ 'zope.testbrowser', 'zope.app.securitypolicy', 'some more zope.* packages but why not all zope.*' ], ), > > Why do we not use a Zope3 meta egg which contains all our zope > > packages as a test base. This whould allow us to test the > same we have > > in the zope3 trunk and let us run *buildout/test -s zope* > from within > > each egg. > > Perhaps because there isn't a Zope 3 meta egg. I see > > btw, > > what is the builbot doing right now? Does the builbot still > runs test > > on the trunk? Or does the buildbot test the eggs? > > It doesn't do much of value at all right now. The transition > to individual projects per package has left it behind. There > are good ideas to make the buildbot work with the new setup, > now we need someone to implement them. Is there a benefit to not depend on all zope.* packages in each egg test setup if we do a transition to indvidual packages? I understand the benefit to have smaller dependencies in eggs, but I still think a egg should run all tests we have in the zope namespace. Like we did in our old trunk setup. e.g. python test.py -s zope -pv could be now in a egg: bin\test -s zope -pv This whould allow us to run all zope.* tests during egg development. Regards Roger Ineichen > -- > Benji York > Senior Software Engineer > Zope Corporation > ___ > Zope3-dev mailing list > Zope3-dev@zope.org > Unsub: > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch > > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
