On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:45, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> I was talking about regular programmer-facing documentation and couldn't
> find a good word for it (tutorial? programmer's guide). The thing you
> read to learn about the package, not the thing you use to look up some
> details of some functi
On Sunday 15 July 2007 11:26, Benji York wrote:
> I think I miscommunicated. Let me combine your example and mine to
> demonstrate what I was talking about. Say you have an HTML document and
> you want to make assertions about a portion of it. You could use XPath
> to extract part of the documen
On Monday 16 July 2007 08:44, Jim Fulton wrote:
> For me, post-mortem debugging or using set_trace is almost always
> good enough. On those occasions where I really need to step through a
> series of example, It's straightforward to convert them to a single
> example.
Me too. Actually I only
On Jul 13, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
...
Amen. I find failing doctests to be much harder to debug as well.
Are you are of the post-mortem debugging features of the zope.testing
test runner? I find this helps a lot when debugging test failures.
On Jul 14, 2007, at 1:00 PM,
Benji York wrote:
Marius Gedminas wrote:
There's a little complication: when you have test layers that don't
support tearDown, some of the tests are run in a subprocess, where
stdout isn't a terminal (it's a pipe), but all the output will be copied
verbatim to the stdout of the parent process (w
Benji York wrote:
It'd be nice to have a -C option that disables -c for when your test
runner has -c included in the default options (as I intend to do with mine).
I've added such an option. The -C switch makes sense, but I'm not
entirely happy with the --no-color version of the name, any sug
Marius Gedminas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 03:30:22PM -0400, Benji York wrote:
Digression: syntax highlighting the diffs helps immensely.
Check out
http://svn.zope.org/zope.testing/branches/colorized-output/
I'm very much looking forward to that branch being merged to t
Marius Gedminas wrote:
On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 10:44:35AM -0400, Benji York wrote:
I'm doing some work with doctest right now, and am considering how to
make assertions about HTML/XML better.
Fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3/+bug/126169 would make my life
easier.
I wonder if that beha
On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 10:44:35AM -0400, Benji York wrote:
> I'm doing some work with doctest right now, and am considering how to
> make assertions about HTML/XML better.
Fixing https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope3/+bug/126169 would make my life
easier.
Marius Gedminas
--
Microsoft -- because God
On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 08:34:43AM -0400, Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Saturday 14 July 2007 04:24, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > - API documentation: human readability is the primary concern, doctests
> > are in there just to make sure the documentation stays up to date.
> > These are .txt fil
Stephan Richter wrote:
I would not like that. I really, really like to use XPath to select an element
in the HTML structure. The method above would still require me to write
I think I miscommunicated. Let me combine your example and mine to
demonstrate what I was talking about. Say you have
On Sunday 15 July 2007 10:44, Benji York wrote:
> > Right, z3c.etestbrowser does this already. I wish they would have done
> > this with a different object altogether, but they extended the
> > TestBrowser class. But then I do not have enough objectstion to write a
> > new package.
>
> Perhaps some
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Saturday 14 July 2007 15:30, Benji York wrote:
Yep, assertions about HTML (or XML) are difficult to do with plain text.
One option is to feed browser.contents to your favorite HTML (XML)
parser.
Right, z3c.etestbrowser does this already. I wish they would have done
On Saturday 14 July 2007 04:24, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> - API documentation: human readability is the primary concern, doctests
> are in there just to make sure the documentation stays up to date.
> These are .txt files.
I disagree. API reference should be automatically created. Text file
On Saturday 14 July 2007 15:30, Benji York wrote:
> Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > - Functional tests: these are .txt files that use zope.testbrowser and
> > are the hardest to debug. There ought to be a better way to make
> > assertions about HTML output than using ELLIPSIS and then pulling
On Saturday 14 July 2007 18:13, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > > http://svn.zope.org/zope.testing/branches/colorized-output/
> >
> > I'm very much looking forward to that branch being merged to the trunk.
>
> Merged.
Yipee!
Regards,
Stephan
--
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) /
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 03:30:22PM -0400, Benji York wrote:
> >Digression: syntax highlighting the diffs helps immensely.
> >Check out
> >http://svn.zope.org/zope.testing/branches/colorized-output/
>
> I'm very much looking forward to that branch being merged to the trunk.
Marius Gedminas wrote:
- Functional tests: these are .txt files that use zope.testbrowser and
are the hardest to debug. There ought to be a better way to make
assertions about HTML output than using ELLIPSIS and then pulling
your hair out looking at huge and incomprehensible diffs.
Previously Marius Gedminas wrote:
> - Unit tests: there are many of those, they're independent (thus a
> single .txt for a collection of tests is a Bad Idea), they're short
> (so understanding and debugging is easy) and expressive. I put
> those into .py files full with functions tha
On Saturday 14 July 2007 04:05, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> Absolutely! Trying to reach two unrelated goals (comprehensive tests +
> human-friendly documentation) with one file is just too hard, if not
> impossible.
While it cannot be done in one file, I think it can be done in one style of
writing
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 11:24:36AM +0300, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> Digression: syntax highlighting the diffs helps immensely.
> Check out http://svn.zope.org/zope.testing/branches/colorized-output/
A picture is better than five hundred lines of code:
http://mg.pov.lt/blog/europytho
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 11:09:30PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
> > Stephan Richter wrote:
> > > I think in the long term it will be most beneficial, if we convert all
> > > tests
> > > to doctests; then a reasonable on-line documentation is not that hard to
> >
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 02:03:04PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> Of course, I'm a big fan of doctest. Not all tests are documentation
> though, even if they are written as doctest. I'm happy with what
> we've done. We're making good incremental progress. I think though
> that many of our doct
Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> > On Friday 13 July 2007 12:14, Jim Fulton wrote:
> >> IMO, a could release should have:
> >>
> >> - a good overview, and preferably
> >>
> >> - on-line documentation
> >
> > Right, I thin
On Jul 13, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Stephan Richter wrote:
On Friday 13 July 2007 12:14, Jim Fulton wrote:
IMO, a could release should have:
- a good overview, and preferably
- on-line documentation
Right, I think this is well-served for packages that have doctests.
I think
that your example of
On Jul 13, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
I'm not sure what to do about that given the time availability of
current volunteers.
I would happily upload properly released stuff to the CheeseShop if
I had access.
Somebody thought I wanted to own pretty much everything --
On Friday 13 July 2007 12:14, Jim Fulton wrote:
> IMO, a could release should have:
>
> - a good overview, and preferably
>
> - on-line documentation
Right, I think this is well-served for packages that have doctests. I think
that your example of including the dotest files into the long descripti
On Jul 13, 2007, at 11:31 AM, Stephan Richter wrote:
On Friday 13 July 2007 11:23, Jim Fulton wrote:
Once we reach steady state, I'd like to see everything in the cheese
shop. Unfortunately, I hate crapping poorly packaged eggs there. :
( I'm not sure what to do about that given the time ava
Jim Fulton wrote:
Yes, I noticed that too. I think the current situtation is way too
confusing. We should decide which the authoritative source for the
eggs is, the CheeseShop or http://download.zope.org/distribution. The
advantage of the latter is that everybody with checkin rights can
releas
On Friday 13 July 2007 11:23, Jim Fulton wrote:
> Once we reach steady state, I'd like to see everything in the cheese
> shop. Unfortunately, I hate crapping poorly packaged eggs there. :
> ( I'm not sure what to do about that given the time availability of
> current volunteers.
>
> It would
On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
On Jul 13, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Jim Fulton wrote:
* zope.interface
* zope.security
* zope.app.container
* zope.hookable
* zope.i18nmessageid
Could you or someone else make final source releases of these
first?
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