Re: [Zope3-Users] So, there is going to be no Zope4... how to handle maintenance a couple of years from now?
Thanks, Jim, for your responses! These thoughts from you deserve a larger readership than this thread provides. I think I will restart thinking on this from scratch. Thanks, again. -Milind On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Milind Khadilkar zedobj...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Thierry. I think the real problem with ZCA and ZCML is bad press. We did not face any ZCML problem when we worked on the Zope3 projects. It was later, thankfully, that we came across the negative opinion. ZCA did require a mindset change for some, but more often than not it has helped them in their future work on other platforms too. But that was 10 years ago... Don't know about now. I'm proud of the ZCA in many ways, but: - ZCA was designed for problems that most people don't or shouldn't have, which is making a complex application pluggable. If your application is complex, that's a problem http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/ - In the Zope 3 project, we used the CA way more than we should have. Initially, this was to prove that we could. Once we were convinced that every (damn) thing could be pluggable we should have stopped and simplified, using the ZCA only where needed. Instead, we'd established a culture of crazy levels of indirection. - Outrageous indirection in the base system made starting new projects either super difficult, an exercise in cargo-cult-programming, or both. I've come to the conclusion that any framework that requires or encourages its users to use project-templates or project-setup wizards isn't something I want to use. I stopped using Zope 3 several years ago when I realized that the weight of the framework wasn't justified by it's benefits, at least for me. I've decided that I'd rather use decoupled frameworks that, ideally, are simple to learn and use individually. That's why I use bobo now, http://bobo.digicool.com. A more conventional choice along the same lines would be Flask, although I think bobo is simpler. (Of course, I'm biased. :) I still use the ZCA, especially zope.event, but in a wildly lighter-weight fashion than I did in Zope 3. Part of the reason I prefer simpler server frameworks today is that Web applications are far more client centered today than they were when I worked on Zope 2 and even Zope 3. Today, for applications (as opposed to content *sites*), UI logic, including templating, mostly happens on the client, and web servers are largely REST/RPC/Database servers. Jim P.S. If you find the ZCA interesting, you should check out Scala and it's implicits and type-level programming. It does many of the same things as the ZCA at compile time. It's crazy beautiful and evil all at the same time. :) -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] how to handle Zope maintenance a couple of years from now?
Thanks, Chris I agree with you on most counts! I will add that in my limited interaction with it, I found grok beautiful. I need to rethink on this from scratch. Fortunately I have time till the end of the year to help ourselves decide. I was not aware of Thierry's ZTFY. I will definitely look at it and take one more at Grok. I have just read about Zopache a few days ago. - One of our largest applications is in Zope3, and another is in Zope2. However, in both cases the domain modelling complexity and SVG based UIs (and the need to thwart screen-scrapers from getting at the raw data) outweighed the architectural issues. Yes, for the Zope2 project we did use TTW a lot, used DTML and ZPT in tandem, and acquisition too. The GAE project is straighforward, with Google's object database, ZPT... partly it was ported from Grok. But I will have to dig up the old documentation before I can answer your questions with confidence. Thanks, again. Regards, Milind. On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Christopher Lozinski lozin...@freerecruiting.com wrote: On 9/7/14, 6:56 AM, Milind Khadilkar wrote: Hi, I have one large Zope2 (Zope 2.6) project, one large Zope3 (Zope 3.4) project, two medium sized Grok projects, one GAE project, allof them need to... be redeveloped using ONE single framework. Any suggestions? In general the following guidelines apply. If it is heavily relational database/ URL dispatch dependent, go with Pyramid. If it is pure file system python with traversal, go with the simpler Grok. if you are doing a lot of TTW work, acquisition and Zope 2 Security interface, then your best option is Zopache on top of Grok. Of course real world situations are not so clear. An informed choice would take the following factors into account. How many lines of code/classes are there in each application? What security model are you using in each case? View based or traversal based? Do you need the Zope 2 user interface for configuring security? How much code is done Through The Web, (TTW), and how much on the files system. Are you using Acquisition? For TTW code, which classes are you using? DTML? Zclasses? How is the GAE application architected? Is it even Zope compatible, or is it a relational database and URL dispatch kind of application? Given the answers to those questions, it should be quite clear what your best strategy will be. My first choice (mainly because I have a complex Zope3 project to redevelop) would be Bluebream, even if it means using ZCML If you are going to start with BlueBream, better to start with the ZTFY.org. and wiki.ztfy,org. I wrote most of that wiki. It is a much more modern and up to date than the most recent bluebream distribution. Better yet, hire Thierry the author of ZTFY. Let him work from Paris. He indicated that his current project is coming to an end. My highest respect for that man and all he has accomplished. His tech support was brilliant.I kid you not, he would be at lest 10 times more productive than any Indian developer you might hire and try to train. It would take a few years to train someone to replace him.The man thinks in Interfaces. So ZTFY is better than BlueBream. But using Grok is better than straight ZTFY. Why? While you and Thierry have had good experience with ZCML, let me assure you I have tried bluebream, ZTFY, and Grok, and Grok is way way easier. Ask anyone who has done both approaches. ChrisM the author of Pyramid wrote an excellent analysis of the difficulty with ZCML in the top part of defense of Pyramid http://docs.pylonsproject.org/docs/pyramid/en/latest/designdefense.html Do read it. Particularly in your case, where you talk about hiring new developers and training them. Grok hugely simplifies application configuration. It feels just like writing regular python code. And reducing the conceptual burden on new developers is a huge issue in this Zope world. Of course if you go with a senior developer like Thierry, then starting with ZTFY is acceptable. Although I would argue that even seasoned zope developers would be more productive in Grok. Now what about your Zope 2 application? You said your largest application is the Zope 2 application. Are you using acquisition? Lots of TTW stuff? Clicking on tables to define security. Then Zopache.com with Grok is the tool for you.Zopache is the cultural inheritor of those software approaches. Anyhow I was quite serious about my questions at the top of this email. A bit more information about your applications and how they are architected would help enormously in figuring out what you should be doing. Hope that helps. Chris ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] What is the status on Zope4?
Hi everyone, Hope Zope is being used in its different forms very actively all over, the silence on this list notwithstanding. I have not followed Zope for more than a year now, but do visit the site once in a while. Is Zope4 planned as a sort of named release with downloadables? Or would there be an implicit release when all constituents have achieved what is expected from them in Zope4? Thanks. Best wishes Milind Khadilkar ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What is the status on Zope4?
Afraid I am no longer actively looking for a development platform... Have been involved with teams working on Zope2, Zope3, Grok, ZTK and to some extent Pyramid... over a 12 year period ( :( no contribution to community, alas!) but not at this point. But every now and then discussions bring up Zope, and well, with lot of fondness, the kind of fondness reserved for memories of the dead... and I hope to be able to shout out and say Hey, look at Zope4. I still remember that Philip von Weitershausen had said in the promotional of his forthcoming book that Zope4 makes Grok look so old... Note the present tense. (of course thereafter he called it a April Fool's joke) Hence I wondered, where *is* Zope4. On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 7:30 PM, Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com wrote: Better look into Pyramid Regards Andreas Jung - Sorry for being brief - sent from a mobile device. Am 06.09.2014 um 14:01 schrieb Milind Khadilkar zedobj...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, Hope Zope is being used in its different forms very actively all over, the silence on this list notwithstanding. I have not followed Zope for more than a year now, but do visit the site once in a while. Is Zope4 planned as a sort of named release with downloadables? Or would there be an implicit release when all constituents have achieved what is expected from them in Zope4? Thanks. Best wishes Milind Khadilkar ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What is the status on Zope4?
Thanks, Carlos, for expressing certainty that there will be no Zope4 (that was the simple question I had asked! Thanks also for pointing out substancedD. Will definitely go through it. Just one question: is the civilized in Build civilized web applicationsa dig at the caveman? On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 5:30 AM, Carlos de la Guardia carlos.delaguar...@gmail.com wrote: There certainly won't be a Zope 4, but if you liked Zope and prefer more opinionated ways of doing things, you can take a look at SubstanceD, which is one of Pyramid's full stack offerings and a tiny bit what Zope 4 could have been. http://substanced.net/ Carlos de la Guardia On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Christopher Lozinski lozin...@freerecruiting.com wrote: On 9/6/14, 9:27 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: without citing the source My Apologies. Here it is. http://slacy.com/blog/2011/02/why-im-unhappy-with-the-pyramid-web-framework/ I quote: I’m having to read through the Pyramid source code trying to figure out what the heck is going on with configuration. At it’s heart, the problem with Pyramid is also what makes it great: They don’t prescribe any one way to do anything. On 9/6/14, 9:27 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: Worse yet that code has been optimized making it even harder to understand. So much bullshit, Well for this one, I will just quote from Defending Pyramid's Design presumably written by ChrisM himself. http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.3-branch/designdefense.html We optimize Pyramid aggressively. This comes at a cost: the core code has sections that could be expressed more readably. As an amelioration, we’ve commented these sections liberally. And that is the author's presumably generous description. So is ChrisM also a bullshitter? Then I am in good company. I really do have the highest respect for ChrisM, and Pyramid. And I do think it is a valid choice to use a tool that keeps your options open. But there is also a valid choice to have a certain way of doing things. There is a philosophical difference between Grok and Pyramid, and it is important that someone points it out. I think of Grok as more of a purist approach. I like grok. Thank you for encouraging a lively discussion. ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] What is the status on Zope4?
Thanks! :) Milind Khadilkar On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Carlos de la Guardia carlos.delaguar...@gmail.com wrote: No dig. We love the caveman. Carlos de la Guardia On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Milind Khadilkar zedobj...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Carlos, for expressing certainty that there will be no Zope4 (that was the simple question I had asked! Thanks also for pointing out substancedD. Will definitely go through it. Just one question: is the civilized in Build civilized web applicationsa dig at the caveman? On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 5:30 AM, Carlos de la Guardia carlos.delaguar...@gmail.com wrote: There certainly won't be a Zope 4, but if you liked Zope and prefer more opinionated ways of doing things, you can take a look at SubstanceD, which is one of Pyramid's full stack offerings and a tiny bit what Zope 4 could have been. http://substanced.net/ Carlos de la Guardia On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Christopher Lozinski lozin...@freerecruiting.com wrote: On 9/6/14, 9:27 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: without citing the source My Apologies. Here it is. http://slacy.com/blog/2011/02/why-im-unhappy-with-the-pyramid-web-framework/ I quote: I’m having to read through the Pyramid source code trying to figure out what the heck is going on with configuration. At it’s heart, the problem with Pyramid is also what makes it great: They don’t prescribe any one way to do anything. On 9/6/14, 9:27 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: Worse yet that code has been optimized making it even harder to understand. So much bullshit, Well for this one, I will just quote from Defending Pyramid's Design presumably written by ChrisM himself. http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.3-branch/designdefense.html We optimize Pyramid aggressively. This comes at a cost: the core code has sections that could be expressed more readably. As an amelioration, we’ve commented these sections liberally. And that is the author's presumably generous description. So is ChrisM also a bullshitter? Then I am in good company. I really do have the highest respect for ChrisM, and Pyramid. And I do think it is a valid choice to use a tool that keeps your options open. But there is also a valid choice to have a certain way of doing things. There is a philosophical difference between Grok and Pyramid, and it is important that someone points it out. I think of Grok as more of a purist approach. I like grok. Thank you for encouraging a lively discussion. ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Choosing between Bluebream, Zope2 and Grok
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Thierry Florac tflo...@ulthar.net wrote: Hi, Le Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:45:50 +0530, Milind Khadilkar zedobj...@gmail.com a écrit: Hello all Zope Users! We are trying to decide on a Zope platform for, say, the next five years. We have developed small products on Zope2 and Zope3 between 2000 and 2008, and in Grok over the past couple of years, off and on. We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it would be common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However, with a small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning We have seven revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one in Plone. Some of them do not open in Zope 2.11... Some of them use DTML for no reason now discernable. Some of them use a very old version of ZODB. We have one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it from Zope 3 to Zope2? We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of familiarity with it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor Zope3. Making use of our past work is an important criterion for us. Training new team members is another... What other things must we keep in mind when deciding on the platform? Any pointers would help. Sorry for this rambling question. Thanks in advance for your answers. Using Zope 2 for several years, I switched to Zope 3.3 probably five years ago and our latest developments since two years are based on ZTK and ZopeApp. We are really very happy with these! Having small teams of developers, mainly coming from the Java world, training them for recent environments was more natural and easier to them than it was for Zope 2. The main problem with these releases is that BlueBream as is is a dead project; I only used it as a base to create my new development environments based on recent releases of ZTK and ZopeApp packages. These ZTK and ZopeApp packages are still maintained (last release was in May, 2012) but don't seems to evolve much actually (even if development work seems to be visible in Launchpad). Development community on these packages don't seems to be very active or is, at least, hard to find! Same for Grok, for which the last release was 18 months ago. Excluding Django, Pyramid seems to be the most active project actually among those you mentioned. And it can include many old Zope concepts (ZODB, traversing...). But I didn't had any time to test it until now... Best regards, Thierry Thanks, Thierry. Actually, there is a recent Grok release that is a well-kept secret: http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/1.5.4/versions.cfg I got the above info when we got into some windows-based problem on Grok and I communicated on the list. Besides, the Grok developers feel, probably rightly so, that Grok is more-or-less feature complete and that widely-spaced releases are to be expected. Another explanation is (as quoted): Another reason why Grok releases do not happen too often these times is, that Grok meanwhile is merely an umbrella package for a couple of outsourced packages (these grokcore.xxx packages). These packages are frequently updated but normally only as bugfix releases which leaves the Grok version number as-is. Thanks, again. Regards Milind Khadilkar ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Choosing between Bluebream, Zope2 and Grok
Hello all Zope Users! We are trying to decide on a Zope platform for, say, the next five years. We have developed small products on Zope2 and Zope3 between 2000 and 2008, and in Grok over the past couple of years, off and on. We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it would be common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However, with a small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning We have seven revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one in Plone. Some of them do not open in Zope 2.11... Some of them use DTML for no reason now discernable. Some of them use a very old version of ZODB. We have one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it from Zope 3 to Zope2? We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of familiarity with it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor Zope3. Making use of our past work is an important criterion for us. Training new team members is another... What other things must we keep in mind when deciding on the platform? Any pointers would help. Sorry for this rambling question. Thanks in advance for your answers. Regards Milind Khadilkar ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Resuming Zope use
Thanks, Jan-W Because we already have taken pains on Zope3 configuration for them, intending to port them to Zope3:). We did not get there though. Actually, these applications are fairly intricate in terms of the domain issues they handle. We feel good knowledge of the inner structure of these applications would be good for developers to have... Zope3 would force them to have that, I suppose. There is also some sense of solidity (apart from awe) about Zope3 which I do not get with Grok. But all this is based on my extremely limited understanding of the three platforms today, compounded by a hazier understanding of the two platforms of yesteryears. So I am likely to be totally wrong and am open to knowing better. Thanks, again. On 2/24/11, Jan-Wijbrand Kolman janwijbr...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/24/11 2:17 AM, Milind Khadilkar wrote: We are planning to rebuild the smaller ones from scratch, using Grok. The four larger ones we would like to migrate to Zope 2.11 using Python 2.6 (or to Blue Bream, maybe) We have one application in Zope 3.1 which we would probably extend further in Zope 3.4 or Blue Bream. Out of curiosity - and I'm biased of course ;) - what leads you to consider Grok for the *smaller* apps and not so much for the bigger apps? kind regards, jw ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Resuming Zope use
Thanks, Andreas. Actually we are looking for very generic answers, even hints, at this stage looking for a starting point, so to say. Something that would help us commence our study. Our applications have mostly been small web based application prototypes which were meant to showcase Zope and our work in specific end-user domains and addressed small end-user problems. The aesthetics of the applications were, by and large, secondary. They were not websites and we had commenced them in 2.x because Zope 3 was not ready at that time. They were commenced in the period 2001-2004 and maintained through 2006-8. Had we written them *today*, from scratch, we would have used Grok, probably. The development and deployment environments were MS Windows versions of the time. Now we plan to use Linux almost exclusively. Most of them used DTML rather than ZPTs. Most used script(python) extensively. Some used ZODB exclusively, while a few others used RDBMSs alongside. None of them used ZEO They used third party Zope products very rarely One application used SVG extensively. Two applications were 3 person-years of effort, two others a one person-year of effort, and others were smaller. We are planning to rebuild the smaller ones from scratch, using Grok. The four larger ones we would like to migrate to Zope 2.11 using Python 2.6 (or to Blue Bream, maybe) We have one application in Zope 3.1 which we would probably extend further in Zope 3.4 or Blue Bream. What we have of them are .zexp and .fs files and some installation documentation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The least we want to do is to reinstall the old work in a manner that we (especially the new programmers with us) would get to see it and take a decision on each application separately. If there is a way we can install the applications using the current Zope versions, we would love it. Thanks and regards Milind Khadilkar, ZedObject On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Those are broad questions that can not be answered seriously if you don't tell us about the kind of application you have built in the past with Zope and what kind of applications you intend to buildout with Zope-ish technlogy in the future. - -aj Milind Khadilkar wrote: Hello everybody, We have used Zope a few years ago... had to stop rather abruptly... and now are attempting to get back into using Zope. Most of the work we have done is in Zope 2.7.x, while some work dates from much earlier versions. Is it right that we would need to install the *exactly* original Zope versions ( or is it *major* original Zope version?) to get our old work up and running? If we want to reuse that work in Zope 2.13 and continue from there, is there a transition path without installing old versions? We also have some work in Zope 3.1. Should we go in for BlueBream now? What should be the Zope2 learning path for new entrants (fresh out of college, with fair Python knowledge)? Advise would be highly appreciated. With Thanks. Milind Khadilkar ZedObject ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users - -- ZOPYX Limited | zopyx group Charlottenstr. 37/1 | The full-service network for Zope Plone D-72070 Tübingen| Produce Publish www.zopyx.com | www.produce-and-publish.com - E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJNY5FgAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjFJ0LwKJjmohoVhBjUE+ycmvm1Pf7 W2ETn5Gw9aHODn4LaQ/Gf2lL/RB8lAC/+Wrv56vImy92goXHK8TBjr96RfK+WEMO RZJteC3HzoU/eU/rfXlWVWn/iDhn3vvPe9yd/dcZDepx/E6XrucLEP4BiDx9f5UK N1UiF06W66pfG4SIwCs5slglwTzr612DHfjvLPyDF+tV/L/2+yCcZYXSNByE+0Jd 2F+QbShj+B74DQICZ6ksuHWvU4PA2WFl4FY8tRnYdbSWJqsV9Cncsjl1l0Fp94c4 VQtOeru91VWy7mH/acZp97k5i8UyfQLRGSOdiavZkxtJ9SOONn3hEqmCbhdfhx/7 fS8EkUCX7e27rkWV3XCcvDBx/iaSBA5rbpVzmVyeR6CvdxgNq/8OW0Y40Bqk1Xku xRZHsOmF08IfVEo6oQfNcl9cwp9ROuNHzbfpeND8gnKoq/Of1F7tsDIvBjFv0VSf +b9s5NVVZPDcInuKPUWgB7JJnUWov94= =qtAv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] Resuming Zope use
Hello everybody, We have used Zope a few years ago... had to stop rather abruptly... and now are attempting to get back into using Zope. Most of the work we have done is in Zope 2.7.x, while some work dates from much earlier versions. Is it right that we would need to install the *exactly* original Zope versions ( or is it *major* original Zope version?) to get our old work up and running? If we want to reuse that work in Zope 2.13 and continue from there, is there a transition path without installing old versions? We also have some work in Zope 3.1. Should we go in for BlueBream now? What should be the Zope2 learning path for new entrants (fresh out of college, with fair Python knowledge)? Advise would be highly appreciated. With Thanks. Milind Khadilkar ZedObject ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] zope3.4.1
Hello, I had downloaded Zope version 3.4.1 on 18th August. I had downloaded it from this page: http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope3 But there seems to be no link to this page on the Zope site. I had reached there through altavistaing. There is also no mention of the release 3.4.1 on the Zope site. Has it been released officially? Thanks Milind Khadilkar On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Milind Khadilkar zedobj...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, Has Zope 3.4.1 been released officially? Its maturity level is stated as stable Thanks. Milind Khadilkar ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] Compatibility
In light of these insights, I feel the Zope home page should be re-drafted so as to present alternatives clearly to newcomers. Currently, Zope 3 is not presented prominently, causing newcomers tostart withZope2 by default. Regards Milind Khadilkar On 11/23/05, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Milind Khadilkar wrote: Is it correct to say that one of the major objectives of Zope 3as opposed to zope-x ( viz. compatibility with Zope 2, or at least an easy way for importing products from zope 2) has not been achieved?Unfortunately the whole 'X' story was always interpreted differently by different people. It's unfortunate, and our (the Zope 3 project's)mistake, that your interpretation (Zope 2 products work in Zope 3)ever was made possible in the first place... The 'x' was removed on grounds of being ready for production use, not on grounds of compatibility. The release announcement for 3.1 also mentions continuing efforts to ease transition from zope 2 to zope 3. Is it meant to be the same as ability to import products?As Stephan said in his reply, I find it unlikely that you'll ever beable to run Zope 2 products in Zope 3. We're taking the other direction-- Zope 2 products run in Zope 2 obviously, but we're making sure that with Five, more and more Zope 3 code also works in Zope 2. This allowsyou to start porting code over to Zope 3 while it remains to work in Zope 2.Five is hardly the perfect transition tool; most of Zope 3 code doesn't work in Zope 2 either without significant modifications. Step by stephowever this gap is being bridged.Regards,Martijn ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] How do I logout from Zope 3 Management Interface?
I have installed Zope 3.1 rc 3. After logging in, I could not find any logout button. Is it OK to directly shut the browser window ( I am using Firefox)? --mk ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
