Oops! Just read Malcolm's reply to Frank's ISE test description and Frank's reply to that. Should have read all my pile up before writing.
Ivan. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ivan Anderson [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 March 2003 11:12 p.m. > To: [email protected] > Subject: CS>Particle vs Ionic - ISE measurement > > > The adult male has 5 -6 litres of blood circulating throughout the > body, an adult female 4 - 5 litres. 250ml of 20ppm ionic CS when > diluted by 5 litres of blood will have a concentration of 1ppm given > the unlikely event of 100% absorption. One should suppose that ionic > silver will also react with various constituents of the blood plasma > to some degree, so there is not much of a margin (if any) if one can > read only to 0.4ppm. Many Ion Selective Electrodes will not read > correctly in the presence of Sulphides or Sulphates, both > of which are > present in blood plasma. Does Sodium Heparin react with silver ions? > > I don't think this test is reliable. > Ivan. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frank Key [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Monday, 3 March 2003 3:51 a.m. > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: CS>Anthrax Comment - mesosilver > > > > > > Malcolm wrote: > > > > > Hi Catherine, I think it would be worthwhile for you to > > clarify and > > delimit > > > your blanket approval of "this" to one or several of the > > statements and/or > > > dependent implications Frank Key makes in the first > > paragraph you quoted; > > > you can nit-pick it as well as I, the first three > > sentences alone (not in > > > isolation, but merely) are a minefield of invalid assertion and > > implication. > > > Further, I am curious as to the validity of whatever > > tests were done to > > > show the presence or absence of silver ions in the > > bloodstream: where in > > > the bloodstream, after what period of time, detected by > > what methodology > > of > > > what sensitivity, after how long a period of rest or > > analysis of the > > > sample, replicated or not, peer reviewed or not. > > > > Silver ions in blood can be measured using an Ion Selective > > Electrode (ISE) > > for silver along with an ISE meter. > > > > * Blood is drawn from the subject using an 18 gauge > > Vacutainer needle taken > > from the antecubital space (inside of the elbow) into 10 mL > > vacuum vials. > > The Vacutainer vials contain sodium heparin as an anticoagulant. > > * Blood is drawn before ingestion of ionic silver to get > a baseline > > (background) reading. > > * Subject then ingests 250 mL of ionic silver solution at a > > concentration of > > 20 ppm. > > * After ingestion draw blood samples at 30 minute intervals > > for four hours. > > * ISE silver electrode has a minimum detection limit of > > about 0.4 ppm. > > > > Process the blood sample as follows: > > > > 1. Draw 10 mL blood sample using a Vacutainer with heparin. > > 2. Separate the red/white cells from the blood serum by > > centrifugation. > > 3. Test the serum using the ISE. > > > > Reading on ISE over several hours do not change measurable > > above background. > > > > Note: The ISE will only detect the presence of silver ions, > > not silver > > compounds or silver particles. > > > > frank key > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Further, what is the > > > record on the presence of silver compounds such as the > > much maligned > > silver > > > chloride following ionic silver injection into the blood > > stream, or other > > > tissues, and so on. Perhaps Frank can cast some light on > > these questions > > > for you and me in his proof of the deceitfulness of petri dish > > > research(ers), perhaps not. > > > After all, there is the well documented work of Dr. R.O. > > Becker who > > > introduced ionic silver directly into tissues to > > eliminate bacterial > > > infections, did it simply turn into silver chloride, and > > everyone forgot > > to > > > mention that, or is the sea of other fluids of our body > > so drastically > > > deficient in their hungry chloride ion concentration? > > > What about Argentum Medical corporation's work with both > > metallic and > > > ionic "colloidal" silver? The much maligned petri dish > > evidence was used > > > by them in their development of eminently successful in > > vivo therapies for > > > which they have acquired FDA approval as well as patents; > > just a fluke of > > > luck for bumbling fools, or are they perhaps deliberately > > misleading > > > themselves as well as all of us? I think not. The record > > speaks well for > > > the beneficial effects of ionic "colloidal" silver in > > vivo, blood-borne or > > > otherwise, and for the use of in vitro research > > protocols. The same > > cannot > > > be said for Mr. Key's rhetorical flamboyance. > > > Take care, Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:59 PM 3/1/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > >Frank said: > > > > > > > ><<Killing power of ionic silver in a Petri dish may be > > interesting but it > > > >has nothing what so ever to do with how it will behave > > inside the human > > > >body. All such studies fail to ever mention that fact, > > and in fact leave > > the > > > >reader with the false impression that it would work just > > as well inside > > the > > > >body. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If the > > studies were > > intended > > > >to be an honest representation of how ionic silver can > > kill pathogens in > > the > > > >body, the environment of the Petri dish would have to > > simulate conditions > > in > > > >the body. Without the chloride being present their in the test > > environment, > > > >the test is scientifically flawed and misleading in > the extreme>> > > > > > > > > > > > >** I have to agree with Frank on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a big fan of and advocate for CS. But I think > > that each time > > claims > > > >are made that are unfounded the more ammunition we give > > to those who wish > > to > > > >shut down the CS business. > > > > > > > > I'm not saying others were being intentionally > > deceitful, but were > > more > > > >likely repeating misinformation they heard. I find this > > almost as > > offensive > > > >as being deceitful. IMO, it represents intellectual > > laziness/disinterest > > > >with more interest in selling than in selling something > > appropriate for > > a > > > >particular use. > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of > > colloidal silver. > > > > > > > >Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: > http://silverlist.org > > > > > >To post, address your message to: [email protected] > > > > > >Silver-list archive: > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > > > >List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > >Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > ------ > ---- > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 > > > >
