2012-04-03  14:43, guoliang han :

> Hi, Remi:
>  
> I don't think my case illustrates MAP-T needs to remain experimental, my 
> comments are below:
>  
>  
> 2012/4/3 Rémi Després <[email protected]>
> Hi, Guoliang,
> 
> Interesting enough, the example you give illustrates that MAP-T needs to 
> remain experimental, more than any other solution.
> 
> 1.
> RFC6145 doesn't say that a PTB<1280 WILL BE changed to PTB=1280. It specifies 
> two behaviors, one that does this, and one that doesn't. Which one to choose 
> isn't AFAIK specified in the MAP-T draft.
>  
>  
> RFC6145 says in Section 6: "It SHOULD be possible to configure a translator 
> for either of the two approaches", the first approach is that "IPv6 hosts, 
> IPv6-host-based firewalls, and IPv6 network firewalls can be administered in 
> compliance with Section 4.3.1 of [RFC4890]", the second approach is to change 
> PTB MTU value to 1280 in case PTB<1280 and set DF bit to 0 in case the packet 
> is less than or equal to 1280 bytes, if the requirements of the first 
> approach can't be met. It doesn't mean the administrator can refuse to take 
> the second approach according to his will. 
>  
> 
> 2.
> With 4rd-U, an ICMPv4 PTB<1280 always goes to its destination unchanged. This 
> is exactly what is necessary for PMTU discovery to work.
>  
> Actually, what I worry about is whether IPv6 packets of 4rd-U embedding 
> ICMPv4 packets could  traverse current IPv6 firewalls successfully.

Typical use cases of 4rd-U have no firewall between BRs and CEs.
If some would exist, they should be configured to let ICMPv4 payloads go 
through (Protocol = 1)
This is like configuring them to accept IPv4 headers in IPv6 payloads (Protocol 
= 4)


> 3.
> Now, you suggest to replace DF=1 by DF=0 in BRs. This differs AFAIK from 
> RFC6145, and therefore from MAP-T.
>  
> See Section 6 of RFC6145.

This isn't in RFC6145, simply a reference to (*) below.
If I misunderstood, please explain what.

> When we have a detailed report on which parts of MAP-T have been validated, 
> with which options of RFC6145, it will be easier to analyze scenarios like 
> the one you propose.
> 
> 
> In any case, thanks for providing one more evidence that the MAP-T 
> specification isn't as clear as claimed to all those who support it, and in 
> particular to some also criticize 4rd-U with invalid arguments.
>    
>     Regards,
> RD
>  
> In fact, MAP-T is clear enough to be deployed without any problems, if you 
> read RFC6145 carefully.

Replacing IPv4 PTB<1280 by IPv4 PTB=1280 should AFAIK be avoided for IPv4 PMTU 
discovery to work.
Still waiting for a clarification on this issue.

Regards,
RD

(retransmitted after deletion of unnecessary old text, message too big for the 
ML!) 


>  
> regards,
> Guoliang
>  
>  
> 
> 
> Le 2012-04-03 à 05:26, 韩国梁 a écrit :
> 
>> +1.
>>  
>> As a follower of MAP team, I participated much in developing and deploying 
>> double-translation in CERNET. As far as I am concerned, in the translation 
>> scenario,
>> 4rd-U only solved some corner cases but missed some other cases 
>> simultaneously.
>>  
>> As an example, I suppose one fragmentation case as following:
>>  
>> (IPv4 customer network)--CE---(IPv6 access network)--BR(Core 
>> Translator)--(IPv4 network)---IPv4 host
>>  
>> The minumum MTU of IPv6 access network is 1400, and the minimum MTU of IPv4 
>> network on the right side is 800. Now an IPv4 host on the left side sends a 
>> packet 
>> with length set to 1200 and MTU set to 1, to the IPv4 host in the right 
>> side. The packet 
>> could traverse the IPv6 access network, but will be blocked in the IPv4 
>> network. 

(*)
>> In this case, BR(Core Translator) must set DF to 0 when translating from 
>> IPv6 back to IPv4,
>> instead of preserving the original IPv4 DF bit.


>>  
>> In fact, according to RFC6145, if BR(Core Translator) receives an ICMP 
>> Packet Too Big packet 
>> whose indicating MTU is less than 1280 bytes, it will change it to 1280. So 
>> if the BR preserve
>> the DF bit, the sender will always believe the path MTU is 1280, which will 
>> certainly lead to 
>> a black hole.
>>  
>> This is only one deployment problem, and we don't know how many issues will 
>> be encountered
>> in the future. So my point is that 4rd-U still needs examination in the 
>> actual deployment, and 
>> it's a bit early to propose it as an Informational/Standards Track Document.
>>  
>> The mail sent yesterday seemed to encounter some problems. So if you see 
>> this mail twice, sorry for that. 
>>  
>> regards, 
>> Guoliang
>> 

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