>>Erroneously? >>The address you sent that message from is owned by bellsouth. If >>bellsouth declines to remove spammers from its network (which has >>certainly been the case in the past, and I haven't seen anything about >>them changing that policy), then a listing of some or all of >>bellsouth's address space is not erroneous. > > Bellsouth did not have spammers on the part of their subnet that > contains my addresses, so a listing of all of their address space > *was* erroneous.
Define "erroneous". If a list contains the things that its description says it contains, then it is not erroneous. If you feel that a differently-described and differently-run list would be better, then you have every right to create and run such a list. Of course, other networks will make their own decisions as to whether to use your list, one or more of the existing ones you hope to replace, or any or all of them. > Ever heard of subnetting? Yes. } NetRange: 66.20.0.0 - 66.21.255.255 } CIDR: 66.20.0.0/15 } NetName: BELLSNET-BLK8 } NetType: Direct Allocation } NameServer: NS.BELLSOUTH.NET } NameServer: NS.ATL.BELLSOUTH.NET } Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE Sure looks to me like bellsouth owns that network. If you think you understand better than ARIN, feel free to correct them. > People who run these blacklists may find it convenient to deny the > existence of it, They don't deny its existence. Rather, they feel (have you read the SPEWS FAQ?) that by listing more and more of a spam-friendly ISP's address space, they will cause more and more pressure to be brought against that ISP by its customers who want their mail not to be blocked. This pressure can result in (and, in some cases, has resulted in) the ISP getting rid of spammers. Merely listing the IP addresses used by spammers has not had the same sort of effect, because the spammers don't much care (they know they'll be listed wherever they go), and others aren't listed. Therefore, the ISP has little incentive to get rid of its spammers. > but the rest of the world has pretty much gotten a grip on the fact > that address space does get subnetted and someone in one part of > that space doesn't necessarily have control of how the other part is > used. You may not have control, but you're paying Bellsouth. If you stop paying them, they have to choose between supporting spammers and having non-spamming customers. Therefore, the pressure is being put on you to move to a non-spam-friendly ISP and stop paying Bellsouth. > Bellsouth may be allowing spamming or not, but that still does not > make it fair for these spam vigilantes to persecute the many for > the sins of the few, or the ISP. The world isn't fair. There is no RFC that requires the Internet to be fair. Networks decide for themselves whose mail to accept and whose to block. The tools they use to decide this may include checking the opinions of others, if they wish to do so. Absent a contract, you have no right to have your mail accepted by any network. If they choose to block it for any reason or no reason, that's their right. If their customers dislike their policies, they lose customers. >>If you choose to buy service from an irresponsible provider, you >>shouldn't be suprised when others decline to allow connections from >>your servers. > > So if I buy address space from your ISP and start spamming from it, You will lose your account within minutes, if not seconds. At Bellsouth, spammers have continued for years. > it's OK with you if SPEWS shuts you down, How can SPEWS shut anybody down? All they do is return responses to queries that others send them. > puts your name on every other list they can find, They don't deal with names, only IP addresses. Nor do they control other lists (though there are a few copies of theirs around). > interferes with your ability to conduct legitimate business and > thereby impacts your company's revenue, and then refuses to take you > off the list even though you've followed their prescribed method of > requesting removal? Their prescribed method of requesting removal is to get the spammers removed from the ISP's network. Did you do that? Seth _______________________________________________ spamcon-general mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.spamcon.org/mailman/listinfo/spamcon-general#subscribers Subscribe, unsubscribe, etc: Use the URL above or send "help" in body of message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Contact administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
