Has the architect taken any allowances for a fully sprinklered building
(area increases, height increases, etc..)? If so, he may run into
troubles without having a fully sprinklered building?
On 9/9/2011 9:53 AM, Rick Arvin wrote:
Craig,
I do not expect a sprinkler designer to design to what the area 'may' be used
for. I'm simply trying to suggest that the AHJ must be aware of the reasonable
uses of the area. Asking questions up front can help everyone understand what
reasonable expectations are. I'd imagine storage of high piled plastics would
not be a reasonable use for this space. However, is it unreasonable for a pool
to be drained for any number of reasons? I've seen pools sit empty for extended
periods of time when 'simple maintenance' turns into major repairs once the
problems are discovered. Should this area be put on fire watch while the pool
is empty? How much would that cost?
The simple point is that NFPA 13 states that sprinkler coverage must be provided throughout a building. I see no reason to exclude a pool area from this requirement.
No crystal ball here...just reasonable expectation for the space and hoping to save some headaches for the owner down the road.
Rick
________________________________
From: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: Pool sprinklers
Interesting point of view so should one design sprinklers in pool areas for
Group A high piled plastic storage? Not trying to be sarcastic but trying to
make a point.
I see an issue with trying to anticipate what an area MAY be used for.
Especially an area such as this. You could take any hotel room designed as
light hazard and someone could decide to store extra furniture or mattresses.
Definitely not an LH room anymore but do you design systems with that
possibility in mind? No.
In my opinion if the area's use changes from a swimming pool to a junk storage
area, that is not the sprinkler designer's issue, that is an AHJ/insurance
issue when annual inspections are performed, if they are performed. Sprinkler
designers don't design via the crystal ball method.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rick Arvin
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:58 AM
To: [email protected]; '[email protected]'
Subject: Re: Pool sprinklers
Bobby,
From an AHJ's standpoint, I would insist on sprinkler coverage in the pool area for several reasons. The pool might not always be filled with water or used as a pool. What happens when it's drained for maintenance? I had a case were a pool was drained basically because it became too costly to maintain and the area tended to became a collection point for storage and 'junk'. I have also seen cases where events are held at pools and temporary stages or 'other structures' are built in the immediate vicinity of the pool (sometimes over the pool). A fire could quickly get out of control if no sprinklers are provided in the original design.
Depending on your particular situation, there could be many other reasons for sprinklers. Insurance requirements readily come to mind but I'm sure there are many good reasons to make sure pool areas are protected.
Rick
Rick Arvin
Fire Protection Engineer
Division of the Fire Marshal
Office of Research Services
National Institutes of Health
Building 15G-2
9000 Rockville Pike
Bethesda, Maryland 20892
301-496-2952
________________________________
From: Frank Herrick<[email protected]>
To: "'[email protected]'"<[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Pool sprinklers
Bobby,
Just saw your post on the sprinkler forum, basically you are right, do NOT
delete sprinkler protection from a pool area. There is frequently a large
amount of plastics and combustibles stored around pool areas with little or no
adult supervision of the working crew.
Plastic pipe is perfect for this type of installation, see page 11 of this
website:
http://www.harvelsprinklerpipe.com/design_installation/pdf/installation-instructions.pdf
You also need to specify a Teflon coated sprinkler heads, the chlorine used in
pools causes corrosion to unprotected brass, which will require replacement in
a few years. Use stainless steel ATR and hangers as well.
Sounds like the local AHJ hasn't seen a fire extend from the pool area in to a
hotel or school, look around on the web there are photos and reports available.
Hope this might help.
Yours truly,
Captain Frank J. Herrick
City Of Leawood Fire Department
14801 Mission Road
Leawood, Ks. 66224-9560
Office: 913.681.6788 x 26
Fax: 913.681.2399
Fire Sprinklers Save Lives, Property, the Environment, and Water - Protect what
you value most!
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