On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:00 PM, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Craig, > > As I said I'm in agreement with that point of view. These "changes" that > occur and are allowed to stand are housekeeping issues that need to be > addressed by the FD. My points in bringing up the story was that it's bad > juju and an interesting post design situation. Sorry if it sounded like I > was playing the what if game and suggesting design had to be against all > possibilities. I'd never suggest that.My imagination is too good. I was > once > up a Cheyenne Mountain and one of the guys I was talking to said the > facility had been designed to withstand a five megaton direct hit. I > wondered about a 5.5 megaton bomb. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 6:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Ron, > > > > But we're talking apples and oranges in this situation. This is a clear > > change of occupancy which before a Cof O is isued should be required to > be > > in compliance with applicable codes for the new occupancy. Just because > a > > buikding could change doesn't mean that a designer must consider all > > possible occupancy classifications that someone years in the future might > > try to utilize. > > > > I don't even see any relavency to the topic of whether a pool area should > > be protected or not. > > > > Sorry, > > > > Craig Prahl > > CH2MHILL/SPB > > 864-599-4102 > > ________________________________________ > > From: [email protected] [ > > [email protected]] on behalf of Ron Greenman [ > > [email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:30 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Pool sprinklers > > > > I'm going to agree with Craig's point but now that that has been said how > > about this. An old high rise hotel converted to a low income residential > > facility. The hotel had a pool and bath houses in the basement now rented > > by > > an artist. The pool had been drained and was where he did his welding. > The > > bath stalls et. al. had become storgae for all sorts of stuff he used for > > creating his sculptures. > > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I did see a pool in a school that was drained for the summer and the > gym > > > mats were stored in it. > > > > > > > > > At 11:05 AM 9/9/2011, you wrote: > > > >Interesting point of view so should one design sprinklers in pool > areas > > > for Group A high piled plastic storage? Not trying to be sarcastic but > > > trying to make a point. > > > > > > > >I see an issue with trying to anticipate what an area MAY be used for. > > > Especially an area such as this. You could take any hotel room > designed > > as > > > light hazard and someone could decide to store extra furniture or > > > mattresses. Definitely not an LH room anymore but do you design > systems > > > with that possibility in mind? No. > > > > > > > >In my opinion if the area's use changes from a swimming pool to a junk > > > storage area, that is not the sprinkler designer's issue, that is an > > > AHJ/insurance issue when annual inspections are performed, if they are > > > performed. Sprinkler designers don't design via the crystal ball > method. > > > > > > > >Craig L. Prahl, CET > > > >Fire Protection > > > >CH2MHILL > > > >Lockwood Greene > > > >1500 International Drive > > > >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > > > >Direct - 864.599.4102 > > > >Fax - 864.599.8439 > > > >CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > > >[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rick Arvin > > > >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:58 AM > > > >To: [email protected]; ' > > > [email protected]' > > > >Subject: Re: Pool sprinklers > > > > > > > >Bobby, > > > > > > > > From an AHJ's standpoint, I would insist on sprinkler coverage in the > > > pool area for several reasons. The pool might not always be filled with > > > water or used as a pool. What happens when it's drained for > maintenance? > > I > > > had a case were a pool was drained basically because it became too > costly > > to > > > maintain and the area tended to became a collection point for storage > and > > > 'junk'. I have also seen cases where events are held at pools and > > temporary > > > stages or 'other structures' are built in the immediate vicinity of the > > pool > > > (sometimes over the pool). A fire could quickly get out of control if > no > > > sprinklers are provided in the original design. > > > >Depending on your particular situation, there could be many other > > reasons > > > for sprinklers. Insurance requirements readily come to mind but I'm > sure > > > there are many good reasons to make sure pool areas are protected. > > > > > > > > > > > >Rick > > > > > > > >Rick Arvin > > > >Fire Protection Engineer > > > >Division of the Fire Marshal > > > >Office of Research Services > > > >National Institutes of Health > > > >Building 15G-2 > > > >9000 Rockville Pike > > > >Bethesda, Maryland 20892 > > > >301-496-2952 > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Frank Herrick <[email protected]> > > > >To: "'[email protected]'" < > > > [email protected]> > > > >Cc: "[email protected]" < > > [email protected]> > > > >Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 9:59 AM > > > >Subject: Pool sprinklers > > > > > > > >Bobby, > > > > > > > >Just saw your post on the sprinkler forum, basically you are right, do > > NOT > > > delete sprinkler protection from a pool area. There is frequently a > large > > > amount of plastics and combustibles stored around pool areas with > little > > or > > > no adult supervision of the working crew. > > > > > > > >Plastic pipe is perfect for this type of installation, see page 11 of > > this > > > website: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.harvelsprinklerpipe.com/design_installation/pdf/installation-instructions.pdf > > > > > > > >You also need to specify a Teflon coated sprinkler heads, the chlorine > > > used in pools causes corrosion to unprotected brass, which will require > > > replacement in a few years. Use stainless steel ATR and hangers as > well. > > > > > > > >Sounds like the local AHJ hasn't seen a fire extend from the pool area > > in > > > to a hotel or school, look around on the web there are photos and > reports > > > available. > > > > > > > >Hope this might help. > > > > > > > >Yours truly, > > > > > > > >Captain Frank J. Herrick > > > >City Of Leawood Fire Department > > > >14801 Mission Road > > > >Leawood, Ks. 66224-9560 > > > >Office: 913.681.6788 x 26 > > > >Fax: 913.681.2399 > > > >Fire Sprinklers Save Lives, Property, the Environment, and Water - > > Protect > > > what you value most! > > > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >URL: < > > > > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/ccd5d4ed/attachment.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >URL: < > > > > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/439c79ca/attachment.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > > Stonington, CT > > > 860.535.2080 > > > www.fpdc.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > > Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, > > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/630cccde/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/d69a5d00/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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