Craig, As I said I'm in agreement with that point of view. These "changes" that occur and are allowed to stand are housekeeping issues that need to be addressed by the FD. My points in bringing up the story was that it's bad juju and an interesting post design situation. Sorry if it sounded like I was playing the what if game and suggesting design had to be against all possibilities. I'd never suggest that.My imagination is too good. I was once up a Cheyenne Mountain and one of the guys I was talking to said the facility had been designed to withstand a five megaton direct hit. I wondered about a 5.5 megaton bomb.
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 6:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Ron, > > But we're talking apples and oranges in this situation. This is a clear > change of occupancy which before a Cof O is isued should be required to be > in compliance with applicable codes for the new occupancy. Just because a > buikding could change doesn't mean that a designer must consider all > possible occupancy classifications that someone years in the future might > try to utilize. > > I don't even see any relavency to the topic of whether a pool area should > be protected or not. > > Sorry, > > Craig Prahl > CH2MHILL/SPB > 864-599-4102 > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] [ > [email protected]] on behalf of Ron Greenman [ > [email protected]] > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:30 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Pool sprinklers > > I'm going to agree with Craig's point but now that that has been said how > about this. An old high rise hotel converted to a low income residential > facility. The hotel had a pool and bath houses in the basement now rented > by > an artist. The pool had been drained and was where he did his welding. The > bath stalls et. al. had become storgae for all sorts of stuff he used for > creating his sculptures. > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I did see a pool in a school that was drained for the summer and the gym > > mats were stored in it. > > > > > > At 11:05 AM 9/9/2011, you wrote: > > >Interesting point of view so should one design sprinklers in pool areas > > for Group A high piled plastic storage? Not trying to be sarcastic but > > trying to make a point. > > > > > >I see an issue with trying to anticipate what an area MAY be used for. > > Especially an area such as this. You could take any hotel room designed > as > > light hazard and someone could decide to store extra furniture or > > mattresses. Definitely not an LH room anymore but do you design systems > > with that possibility in mind? No. > > > > > >In my opinion if the area's use changes from a swimming pool to a junk > > storage area, that is not the sprinkler designer's issue, that is an > > AHJ/insurance issue when annual inspections are performed, if they are > > performed. Sprinkler designers don't design via the crystal ball method. > > > > > >Craig L. Prahl, CET > > >Fire Protection > > >CH2MHILL > > >Lockwood Greene > > >1500 International Drive > > >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > > >Direct - 864.599.4102 > > >Fax - 864.599.8439 > > >CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > >[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rick Arvin > > >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:58 AM > > >To: [email protected]; ' > > [email protected]' > > >Subject: Re: Pool sprinklers > > > > > >Bobby, > > > > > > From an AHJ's standpoint, I would insist on sprinkler coverage in the > > pool area for several reasons. The pool might not always be filled with > > water or used as a pool. What happens when it's drained for maintenance? > I > > had a case were a pool was drained basically because it became too costly > to > > maintain and the area tended to became a collection point for storage and > > 'junk'. I have also seen cases where events are held at pools and > temporary > > stages or 'other structures' are built in the immediate vicinity of the > pool > > (sometimes over the pool). A fire could quickly get out of control if no > > sprinklers are provided in the original design. > > >Depending on your particular situation, there could be many other > reasons > > for sprinklers. Insurance requirements readily come to mind but I'm sure > > there are many good reasons to make sure pool areas are protected. > > > > > > > > >Rick > > > > > >Rick Arvin > > >Fire Protection Engineer > > >Division of the Fire Marshal > > >Office of Research Services > > >National Institutes of Health > > >Building 15G-2 > > >9000 Rockville Pike > > >Bethesda, Maryland 20892 > > >301-496-2952 > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > >From: Frank Herrick <[email protected]> > > >To: "'[email protected]'" < > > [email protected]> > > >Cc: "[email protected]" < > [email protected]> > > >Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 9:59 AM > > >Subject: Pool sprinklers > > > > > >Bobby, > > > > > >Just saw your post on the sprinkler forum, basically you are right, do > NOT > > delete sprinkler protection from a pool area. There is frequently a large > > amount of plastics and combustibles stored around pool areas with little > or > > no adult supervision of the working crew. > > > > > >Plastic pipe is perfect for this type of installation, see page 11 of > this > > website: > > > > > > > > > http://www.harvelsprinklerpipe.com/design_installation/pdf/installation-instructions.pdf > > > > > >You also need to specify a Teflon coated sprinkler heads, the chlorine > > used in pools causes corrosion to unprotected brass, which will require > > replacement in a few years. Use stainless steel ATR and hangers as well. > > > > > >Sounds like the local AHJ hasn't seen a fire extend from the pool area > in > > to a hotel or school, look around on the web there are photos and reports > > available. > > > > > >Hope this might help. > > > > > >Yours truly, > > > > > >Captain Frank J. Herrick > > >City Of Leawood Fire Department > > >14801 Mission Road > > >Leawood, Ks. 66224-9560 > > >Office: 913.681.6788 x 26 > > >Fax: 913.681.2399 > > >Fire Sprinklers Save Lives, Property, the Environment, and Water - > Protect > > what you value most! > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >URL: < > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/ccd5d4ed/attachment.html > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > >[email protected] > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > >-------------- next part -------------- > > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >URL: < > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/439c79ca/attachment.html > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > >[email protected] > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > > >[email protected] > > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, CT > > 860.535.2080 > > www.fpdc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/630cccde/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110909/d69a5d00/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
