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Yes, John, that was a bad dog analogy, I'll admit.
If restaurants are "public," then I suspect there will be more "clubs" in
the future. (I can't imagine the SP Pool & Yacht Club will have to ban
smoking.)
Jim M.'s onto something with the tobacco license idea.
To take the Piddling Pool analogy one step further, if there were a second
pool where people could go to pee, and there was no cross-contamination of
water, where would the harm be? Why shouldn't O'Gara's be able to have a
Smoking Garage like the rest of us? And a Potting Shed, for that matter.
If you can prove your bad air doesn't contaminate the good, then you should
be allowed to have a smoking lounge. Put all the smokers in a glass box
and shame them into quitting, if that's your ulitmate goal (a la Pizza
Luce', Duluth). But it certainly is not very patriotic to withhold
people's rights, and it smacks of hypocrisy and Prohibition when the same
ethics are not applied to alcohol consumption, which has killed far more
people I have known than tobacco has. My uncle recently died of lung
cancer and he never smoked, while smoking relatives have lived longer
lives, so clearly there is more to cancer than tobacco smoke. Synergism.
Or how do you know that deaths are caused by the first match/lighter hit or
the last burning-cotton-filter drag?
OK, so it's hard to deny first- and second-hand smoke is bad. But a ban is
extreme, when there are alternatives. Haven't you heard of Cigs Sigma?!
It is quite likely that The Lucky Foxx Bar patrons will not be displaced by
Lycra-clad cyclists and jogger-moms. Rather, the same ruffians will be
there, only on the sidewalks now. All our bars will turn into sidewalk
bars, like Skarda's, where folks play bean-bag horseshoes outdoors
constantly. This is fine with me, but I suspect parents and
early-to-bedders might prefer these people were inside. The Spot is going
to smell like cigarettes for another century even if no one ever lights up
in there again, so banning smoking there is not going to attrack the Run
'n' Fun crowd from across the street. They should be able to hang a Mr.
Butts shingle above their door and designate themselves a Smoking
Establishment if they want to. Have you been dying to go to The Spot with
your friends so you can play darts and play the juke box but you just can't
take the smoke? I doubt it. And we're not painting storm drains so more
sidewalk smokers can throw their fag ends down the sewer and straight into
the Mississippi River. If you're as sick of butts everywhere as I am, then
why not ban butt polluters first? At least start imposing the fine (wasn't
it $700?). Not to mention this sidewalk drinking isn't going to help the
Disappearing Glassware problem in this town. Drinking from plastic is not
only in bad taste, it's bad for the environment. Plastic cups should be
banned, clearly.
Let's take a look at my igloo away from home, the XEC. (FYI, when North
Star Ice takes over from Xcel, it will be known as The Igloo.) Year One
was a smoking disaster, you may recall. This was due mainly because the
arena architects were non-smokers, and the HVAC people were trainees. The
smoking in the Iron Range Grill spilled out into the concourse, as did the
smoke from the upper lounge. Even Stan Makita, who was known to burn one
in the locker room after a game, would not have approved. So, now we go
outside between periods, but people are too inconsiderate to get far enough
away from the doors so the smoke still goes inside. The current "secret"
smoking spot upstairs causes no complaints that I am aware of. This is
because it's done properly in the proper place, (albeit not accessible to
us poorer folks, unless we can turn invisible temporarily).
Chuck brings up a good point - this whole issue is about being considerate
of others. We obviously need to teach our children how to be more
conscientious smokers. It could be added to the 5th grade curriculum right
between You & Your Trash and Tolerance, Manners, & Other Things Your
Parents Never Told You Mattered. And any and all kids who tell me how
disgusting I am should be taxed, and then microchipped so my kids can find
them later and tell them what rude little buggers they were.
Further salvos throughout the day in my losing battle:
Since Native Americans use tobacco as a sacrament, will they be exempt?
Smokers cost the American economy no more than incessant gabbers.
You can still smoke at the Day By Day, outside.
What's next? No outdoor smoking? This ain't Texas, Sven.
If we can get Thune drinking, maybe we can knock some sense back into him.
If it was wintertime, things would be/feel different.
Will chewing and spittoons be allowed?
Smokers who support a ban are looking for extra help to quit at the
inconvenience of others.
One stall in each bar restroom should have a heavy duty fan on a 7-minute
timer.
I thought the 2 am closing was meant to encourage conventioneers? No
Shriners are going to convene in a hodunk town where you can't even smoke.
Aren't there some Commandments and ordinances you could be working on?
I didn't realize the object of the game was to live as long as possible...
I thought it was a matter of quality, not quantity...
LOL at the condom idea, David!
How about we get smart and have Cones Of Silence that come down over the
smoking booths?
If any Councilmembers start getting too rotund, I will start a campaign to
ban the sales of fat, because it's costing us a lot of money, and people
are actually dying!
Now, in Nazi Germany...
"Those who are willing to give up freedom for a little safety deserve
neither freedom nor safety."
"Smoke Free and/or Die!"
AMH
Not a coffee shop owner in the Wild West End
Andrew M. Hine
Corporate Research Materials Laboratory
3M Center 201-1W-28
St. Paul MN
55144-1000
USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: (651) 733-1070
Fax: (651) 737-5335
Lab 201-W110
"John Mannillo"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ck.com> "Erik Hare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: cc: "St. Paul Issues Forum"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
orum.org Subject: Re: [StPaul] Smoking Ban in
St. Paul
05/06/2004 10:24
AM
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Andrew wrote:
A friend of mine won't/can't come to our house because we have a dog and
the dog-ness will make him sick. He would never dream of asking us to get
rid of our dog so he can come over! He's got plenty of other places to go
without imposing his will on us. The dog may be shortening my life for all
I know, but I don't mind.
Andrew, This analogy make the point for the smoking ban. No one is saying
you can't smoke in your house. If you want to shorten the life of you and
your dog, you'll still be able, and if your friends don't want to come
over, they don't have to. What this ban will do is prevent you from
bringing
your smoke to a public restaurants. You already can't bring your dog to
the
restaurant.
John Mannillo
Downtown and Highland Park
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