Chris Ilias wrote:
On 10-02-08 9:07 PM, Rufus wrote:
Chris Ilias wrote:
On 10-02-07 4:10 PM, Rufus wrote:
Chris Ilias wrote:
You said "your users are your best "user experience" people". Users
communicate what is on their minds, not the workarounds they have
gotten used to.
What's "on their mind" is their "experience". A forum like this is
where
people come primarily to solve problems they encounter...a lot of UI/UE
information can be mined from such forums - IMO, the team should feel
free to ask us users questions too, just as you did.
* A forum like this requires knowing how to use newsgroups.
So what? It's still a source of information, just like the bug reports
forum...a free source. Doesn't relieve the team of coming up with a way
to use that information on their own.
SO unless the knowledge to use a newsgroup is common knowledge, the
users here are not the best user experience people. This newsgroup is
not an accurate representation of the SeaMonkey userbase.
Then what's it here for? I think people who post here are posting
accurate observations concerning their own experiences. That's just
another way of saying not to listen to them.
...and as someone else pointed out, the way here is presented on the
initial splash screen every time a use installs a new version of SM and
launches it for the first time. So every SM user has a chance to know
that this forum exists.
If too many people
are discussing work arounds (and I'd consider any suggestion to a user
to fiddle with about:config as a workaround, for ex.), then maybe
that's
something that the team should pick up on and start thinking about a
hard coded solution for.
Decisions have to be made, but people on the team shouldn't slap users
down when they speak up - or they'll stop speaking, and the team
ends up
having to depend on a "UI/UE expert"...which only drives things back to
the "single point" issue I spoke to earlier.
You've mentioned this before, I haven't linked me to an actual case. I
fear that you are mistaking "being slapped down" for cases where there
isn't manpower (ie. the form manager).
Personally, I've never used the Forms Manager...but the only reason I
haven't that I can determine now that I'm reading so much displeasure
about it's removal is that I couldn't determine if information it stores
is encrypted or not. If it was and a dialog box had told me that, I now
think that would have, and would be, using it. I don't, so I don't miss
it...but that's just me. (I posted a number of comments on what I felt
were/are deficiencies concerning the removal of information from dialog
boxes when I first looked over SM 2.0.)
Then there was this:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513691
Or read through the thread titled "Found reason Dowload Manager doesn't
come up right.", posted this forum.
I quit monitoring this issue because it's been beat to death and the
individual that coded it refused to do anything about it other than
state "the old way looked like crap"...at least that was the initial
response to user feedback, even though several other members of the SM
team submitted their own input for considering revision to a larger
size, and also invited me to provide my own insights and opinions in
support of them. So as a user, providing UI/UE input, from a user point
of view, neither the teammates or I were even being considered by the
guy that had the reins to actually do something.
This looks to me like a combination of not understanding bugzilla and
not trying to turn the issue into something different.
It was a pretty specific/clear issue - it didn't need to be turned into
anything different.
* If the bug were "slapped down" (granted, we may have a different
understanding of what that means), the bug would have been resolved as
'wontfix'. It was kept open; which means Robert was providing his input,
not turning down the bug report.
"slapped down" - initially ignored in the face of multiple requests and
input from both users and some of those actually on the SM team; one
individual being able to halt the team effort; inability to build team
consensus on working the issue quickly/directly.
But I'm very glad to see it got turned around and that it looks like
something is actually going to be done about it.
* The issue (although I didn't read the bug thoroughly) was that neither
the old UI nor the new one are considered good.
As a USER, I think the solution I saw is a vast improvement over what
was introduced in 2.0, and a fair compromise as to what was in 1.1.18
and worked just fine...I look forward to seeing it in finality.
--
- Rufus
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