Eircode looks very unhelpful for anything other than exact identification of a
letterbox address. It has no local area geographical meaning. I can't see it
being used much other than for postal communication or household service
delivery where a house id is needed. I don't see it being very useful as a tag.
The missing piece, as I see it, is to have a way for ordinary people to specify
a location or area in a way that is easy to understand, easy to recall and that
they can give to lower accuracy. I might want to specify the area I live in to
within 1km or 500m but no closer. There are probably a lot of ways a simple
code like this could be useful. GPS seems not so easy for people to remember.
What would make a good coding system that produces a short and easy to remember
code? Are there good examples? There would probably always be boundary issues
with any scheme. With a geographical demarcation, you'd have to decide what is
in and what is outside which leads to trouble over desirable areas.
Yes, it's true there are some (not many) very different codes for adjacent
points in openpostcode. I would think that when specifying a location to some
level of accuracy, you're interested in about 2 levels of code resolution and
not too many code ranges. The case of Elmbrook/Esker mentioned is particularly
bad as it spreads across the corner areas of large squares JKQ, JKX and KFL. It
is mostly contained within ranges JKQXH to JKQXX and KFLRL to KFLRR. These
ranges can be written as: JKQXH::X, KFLRL::R. Some pieces extend outside,
depending on which areas you want to include. Areas can be specified by a set
of rectangular ranges though maybe this specification could be improved.
Someone living in Elmbrook who knows the code scheme would be familiar with the
boundary between top-level squares J and K. They would know their area sits
within JKQ, JKX and KFL and that the neighbour's house is in KFL while theirs
is in JKQ. They could tell someone they have recently connected with online
that they live around JKQX which locates them to with about 1km. If I'm selling
something on Donedeal and want to reduce the number of wasted contacts, I can
give a fair indication of location by saying I'm in JKQ. There is of course the
problem of saying I live in KFC the postcode, not the fast-food outlet.
In GPS, I might say I live around 53.350, -6.430 which has more characters to
recall and is harder to write or say.
As for "integrating" openpostcode, what I mean is do you see it as useful and
can you see ways of using it or tools that could make it work well with OSM? I
suppose I'm looking to see if there is any level of interest in a coding system
that ordinary people will relate to but better than D15 or Blanchardstown and
better also than the Eircode scheme. My interest is as somone who wishes for a
better postcode system that isn't proprietary. The openpostcode scheme is an
example of something that could work. I'd gladly go along with another if it
worked well.
The use of google maps with openpostcode seems to be for convienience in
prototyping and demonstrating, not an integral part of it.
Loc8 is propriatory so not so good for non-commercial use. I don't know how
they calulate a code or if there is a logic to it.
On Friday, 14 November 2014, 10:26:56, Rory McCann <[email protected]>
wrote:
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Hi,
Yes the Eircode system has flaws and will be closed. But that's the
system we have to deal with. The UK Postcode system was closed for
years as well. Alas "postcode" in Ireland will mean "Eircode". When
Eircode is launched, we can start adding it to OSM in the
addr:postcode tags. Maybe we'll do some sort of "free the postcode"
for eircode.
As for integrating with OSM, since openpostcode is an algorithm based
on lat/lons, I don't think there is any way to "integrate" them (or is
there?). OSM provides the lat/lons, do whatever with them.
Please don't add openpostcode codes to OSM as "addr:postcode", that's
inaccurate until people start using openpostcode.
The openpostcode map uses Google maps though :P
*Designing* a postcode is hard. openpostcode has flaws as well.
Sometimes 2 houses of a semi-d will have radically different codes,
meaning you can't use "ranges" at all (e.g. KFLRL2LN and JKQXQ6QF ). A
take away nearby cannot say "We deliver to postcodes starting with KF".
Rory
On 14/11/14 10:54, Conor McDonagh wrote:
> It's very official; the Eircode system is designed to be
> unintelligible apart from the first part giving the sorting-office
> area. It has been finalised and is to role out in 2015. It's most
> likely defined to meet the needs of An Post, Revenue and similar
> authorities.
>
> An advantage of a more intelligible, geographic coding is that you
> can easily identify and recall the code for an area. You can
> specify a location to a desired degree of accuracy, e.g. 10km, 1km,
> 100m, 10m.
>
> The particular advantages of the openpostcode system as I see it
> are: that it has no proprietary aspect; the resolution depends on
> the length of code, from 1 to 8 chars (93, 19, 3.7km, 750, 160, 30,
> 6, 1.2m); the codes are reasonably short; it describes a geographic
> box so any location can be given. The key thing to my mind is that
> your average person should be able to remember and use a code with
> ease to find places. Remembering a GPS point isn't easy. I can just
> about remember that Dublin is around 53N 6W and I couldn't put a
> GPS box around my local area.According to openpostcode, I live in
> an area generally around KFM2, KFM3, KFM7and KFM8. Dublin is pretty
> much within KF, KG, KL and KM. There is a syntax for defining
> ranges, so I live in KFM2::KFM8 and Dublin is in KF::M. Another
> useful outcome is that geographical analysis can be applied where
> people are regularly using codes. For e.g. if sales ads specify a
> small area for a person's location, then the data can be usefully
> analysed to give statistical maps.
>
> On Wednesday, 12 November 2014, 12:35:42, Conor McDonagh
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Any interest in the openpostcode system? Have any OSM people
> looked at it with view to integrating or using it?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Talk-ie mailing
> list [email protected]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
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