Hi Brandon, Thanks for the detailed feedback. I just tested this out on my Windows 10 Pro PC also running version 1511 and Window-Eyes 9.3.1.
Regarding #1, I opened Notepad, typed some text, pressed Alt-F4 and then N to not save. Focus moved to my Desktop list of shortcuts after Notepad closed and Window-Eyes read the focused item on my Desktop. Window-Eyes does not try to force focus to a specific location after a program shuts down. So, if Windows puts focus in no man's land, there are now focus events being fired for Window-Eyes to react to. I appreciate your desire to have Window-Eyes always announce where you are and where you are going but we have to rely on Windows for this type of info and don't always get it. Exact steps to reliably duplicate the problem would be need to investigate this further. Regarding #2, I opened the Temp folder in File Explorer, selected about 30 files and then hit delete. The file operation dialog popped up for just a moment to display a progress bar and then closed. But, when the dialog gained focus, Window-Eyes did start to announce the focused control in the window. But, since the window was only displayed for a split second there wasn't much time for Window-Eyes to read everything in the dialog. After the dialog closed, my focus returned to the list of files in File Explorer. The currently selected file was announced by Window-Eyes. Again, exact steps to reliably duplicate the problem would be need to investigate this further. Regarding #3, when I tabbed to the Download over metered connections toggle switch control in the Settings app, Window-Eyes reads the control's label followed by off toggle switch. But, when I toggle the value from Off to On with Spacebar, Window-Eyes does not automatically announce the new value. I had to Tab and Shift-Tab to verify the new value of the control. I will report this to my team to see if this is something we can fix or if it is something we need to report to Microsoft. Regarding #4, I don't use Thunderbird so I am unable to test it out. I would recommend you contact our support team directly by phone or email to see if they can duplicate the problem or provide a fix. As a closing note, please be advised that reading the screen with the Mouse pointer relies on the Window-Eyes off screen model. Unlike accessibility APIs like MSAA and UIA that are designed to provide specific details about what is on the screen to assistive technology, the off screen model is something that we have to build ourselves by tapping into the video stream. In other words, instead of communicating directly with a program via an approved accessibility API to query the focused control or window contents, we have to try and create a virtual representation of the screen using the video stream. This technique is never going to be 100% reliable and should only be used when traditional keyboard techniques fail. As time goes on, due to security considerations in the OS and programming frameworks, screen reader manufacturers will have more and more difficulty maintaining an accurate off screen model. After all, the techniques we have to rely on to create an off screen model are not supported by the operating system and can be considered a form of hacking. But, hacking for accessibility not for malicious intent. Regards, Marc -----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brandon Miller via Talk Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 6:40 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Wineyes and Windows 10 oddities I'm using Windows 10 home, version 1511, OS build 10586.71. I'm also using Window-eyes 9.3.1. I am currently doing my best to contend with annoyances such as: 1. When I press alt+F4 to close apps, Wineyes frequently says nothing at all. If I want to confirm that anything has taken place at all, I often have to press the Wineyes read title bar command, Ctrl+shift+T. 2. I'm a Microsoft certified systems engineer, so I frequently go in and delete a whole batch of files from places like the temp, %temp%, and prefetch folders to not only free up disk space, but to also maintain high overall system stability and responsiveness. Often times in Windows 10 however, just as above I am almost always greeted by nothing except total silence from Wineyes about halfway through this seemingly simple operation. Because of my educational background, and the level of familiarity that I have regarding internal/background Windows processes, services and structures, I've been able to deduce that as a blind person using Window-eyes, you've usually got to alt+tab around to find the screen where you have to use the Wineyes mouse reading commands to click on the "Continue with automatic administrator rights" button, and in the same screen I also have to use the Wineyes mouse reading keys since I tend to put a check in the checkbox that says, "Do this for all items". 3. If you access the start button and select settings, although the screens within are mostly accessible, the mouse reading commands can get tripped up and are read out by Wineyes in either a nonsensical, or undesirable way. To experience for yourself what I'm talking about, do the following: A. Access the start menu. B. Press up arrow until you get to settings. Press enter on settings. C. Press right arrow once to move the cursor, and subsequently the focus to, the devices category and press enter. D. At this point, the category that should be automatically selected for you by default will more than likely be printers and scanners. That's fine. E. Now press tab four times, and you should arrive at some kind of checkbox regarding metered internet connections. Wineyes doesn't read that checkbox properly when tabbing through the screen, and I can't get the mouse reading keys to get to that checkbox either! I am able to get the Wineyes mouse reading keys to let me access the first checkbox of this screen, so I know that it for example says, "Let Windows manage my default printer". The second checkbox on this screen however, is not reading properly at all. 4. Last but not least, Window-eyes is giving me all kinds of problems when trying to do something as simple as write an email with Thunderbird! I'll be in the middle of composing a simple, old fashioned, plane text email, when suddenly and without any kind of warning, Window-eyes'll just start announcing my title bar as untitled, and not read anything in either the subject, or body fields of the message. I ensure that the window is maximized, makes no difference. I press Ctrl+alt+W to relaunch Window-eyes, which sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't make any difference. I've tried uninstalling the TB Enhance app, thinking that it might not have exactly kept pace with Mozilla's Thunderbird development team, but doing so also unfortunately made no discernible difference. I've had to re-launch Window-eyes literally no less than four times while composing this message alone! What's up with all these little annoying problems I'm experiencing with regard to Windows 10 and Window-eyes 9.3.1? Is anybody else contending with stuff like this? P.S What the H e double hockysticks! Now the Read To Me app isn't working in Thunderbird either! Before you ask, yes, I guarantee you I've set it up correctly, I would know since I've used it successfully before on this PC in both Firefox 43, and Internet Explorer 11. Right now though, Ctrl+shift+r at the top of the message? Nothing. Ctrl+shift+r in the middle of the message? Nada. Ctrl+shift+r in the middle of a line in the middle of the message? Zilch. Zippo. Grrrrr! Ai Squared, what gives! Disclaimer: Be advised; It is possible that this communication is being monitored by the National Security Agency or GCHQ. I neither condone, or support, any such policy by any Government authority that does not comply appropriately as stipulated by the fourth Amendment of the constitution of the United States of America. Brandon Dean Miller _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/msolomon%40aisquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
