We don't know WE is going away.
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail....@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
Hi Sky and List
I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws. The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws. Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.
Just a thought,
Brenda
On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
Hello Kevin and Vaughn. Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance, Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened. Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!
Email 1:
Hi Sky,
Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make
those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.
There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and
overbearing system.
Email 2:
From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: window eyes proposal
Hi Sky,
I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but
really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new
updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really has to
do something at this stage. We really have to get together and make
sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for sma's
are now entitled to a full refund, no questions asked. No development
means no upgrades, no upgrades equals no need for sma's. No sma's means
they are stealing our money under false pretences.
This time things have gone too far. Something has to be done, whether
it is a petition, legal action to force VFO to state their position.
Something.
All the conjecture on the list has to stop and positive action taken
by those who wish to keep window-eyes alive. What was stated in that
podcast, whether it is the opinions or not of the people who are
making the statements. It was made so clear, "No development of
window-eyes will continue". Only those areas where profit is to be made
will be supported.
That was made abundantly clear. That wasn't just an opinion, it was a
matter of fact.
Live long and prosper, John
Hi Sky,
Yes, they said that the free copy of window-eyes with Office was a
demo, that it wasn't a full version, it only lasted 6 months, it only
lasted a month. Those were regular lies told by vendors. The vendors
favoured Jaws because it brought them more profit. In that the Big
blind organisations reckomended jaws above other screen readers. When
those in Education, employment and other fields contacted the rnib etc
with questions about screen readers. What did they get? They got jaws
and nothing else. No reckomendations for window-eyes, nothing, only
jaws was offered. It happened iwth me. I lost a job because of it.
Think about it? Jaws screen reader was always reckomended, followed by
extensive training in jaws at a higher cost, scripts that were
designed by jaws script writers at a consierable cost. Sky that was
the entire package that was reckomended. The cost of everything, the
dam high cost of everything.
From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:51 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Proposal
Hi Sky,
Members of the list have stated that and more. No one was willing to
fight gw's corner. Jaws had too much a grip in institutions, that's one
reason.
The actual proof was so well hidden it could not be proved
conclusivly. Yet it was widely known. As in the post about FS seuing
institutions if they didn't approve of jaws over any other screen
reader. In hindsight, had we known that window-eyes would be put in
jeapordy we would have done something. None of us knew this may happen
and that's another reason we didn't do anything about the situation.
Sadly it looks as if it is all over for window-eyes. I noticed the
post saying the person contacted aisquared and confirmed that s m a's
were and would be available in the future.
Yet he wasn't willing to actualy prove that was the case. He didn't
post an email or confirmation from asquared that this was the case. I
would have liked to have been given proof of this. My proof is in the
email posted to the group by asquared, where no mention of s m a's are
made.
There isn't much time left for VFO to make an official statement about
the future of window-eyes. Then we will know for certain.
Robert would be livid. He would be doing anything to keep window-eyes
alive.
The same as we will be doing. He will be proud of us when the time comes.
Live long and prosper, John
These are my thoughts as well. These emails should get us springing
into action to keep Window-Eyes going. Lets all keep it alive and get
this truth exposed and get Window-Eyes to the top in organisations for the
blind.
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Vaughan Dodd; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
Hi Vaughan:
Mostly, I see your point and I would aggree, accept that, if VFO works
out a contract with Microsoft which will allow them to create a JAWS
For Office, presumably Window-eyes, and therefore Window-eyes for
office, will be dead so there will only be two free screen readerws.
Also, if WGW Micro created Window-eyes for Office to prevent people
from switching to NVDA, wouldn't that reasoning apply to creating a
JAWS For Office? Not to say that they will because I highly doubt
that that will happen, but maybe it remains a possibility.
Kevin Huber and
On 3/29/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.
Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will
most certainly come to an end.
The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of
JFW, and they will expect a return on their investment.
The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user
support for NVDA. The dramatic reduction in the addition of new
features and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal,
and people choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because they had
access to two free screen readers.
There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.
Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft,
there will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop
interfaces for products from software competitors" and so forth.
Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you
lose 10% of the available realestate. Because the objective of the
Orbit
project
is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW
driver soon. That driver will probably need to be developed by the
Orbit consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO
braille display when you buy JFW. It will develop deals for
discounting its own displays. This is partly why Optelec are part of the
group.
Vaughan.
Vaughan.
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.co
m] On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
and so this is why the vfo group has to just fold window eyes into
jaws or just give us a free jaws for office option. because for some
people NVDA does not cut it, and we need something more powerful, yet
that is low cost or free. a jaws for office would work fine
especially if you need to do stuff in microsoft office. not to
mention jaws works good with the orbit
reader20 prototype set to refreshabraille18 emulation.
window eyes does not work with orbit20 at all. come on vfo group let
us
use
jaws for free if microsoft office is installed on our machines!
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