I think that I read that Aaron Smith is there.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim via Talk
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than
just one left.
Jim
On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Personally, I won't buy jaws. If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v
> d a. I've donated to them before and will do so again. How many of
> us out there have unfulfilled s m a's? The longer they delay, the
> longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.
> Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers? Only one
> still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied. I've
> still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine. I
> think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did
> over the years and their great customer support. I've had a few
> dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their
> customer support was terrible. I forget what the thing was called,
> but was a note taker with gps and all that. A friend gave me his old
> one as the v a bought him a new one. He had let the batteries run
> clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles. I couldn't get any
> help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original
> purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even
> work for the v a any more. I finally threw a couple grand worth of
> stuff in the dumpster. As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for
> you and me." No jaws for me at any price.
>
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
>
>> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been
>> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO
>> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being
>> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change
>> where it will no longer work.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>> To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
>> Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>>
>> Hi Vaughan,
>>
>> I believe it is a matter of semantics.
>> The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant
>> in my life on a daily basis.
>> For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
>> Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and
>> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our
>> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
>> In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome
>> and annoying.
>> This is just my feeling.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On
>> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
>> To: Dennis Long <[email protected]>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>> I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
>> point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
>>
>>
>> The evidence does not support on-going development.
>>
>> Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
>> Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
>> through other channels.
>> The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.
>>
>> No news on the VFO site.
>> The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
>> This list is not monitored by VFO. It VFO was paying attentiont it,
>> some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.
>>
>>
>> So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes. All we are
>> saying is that it is no longer a going concern.
>>
>> Vaughan.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement
>> from someone
>> > at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to
>> think it's
>> > a option.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Talk
>> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> > On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
>> > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
>> > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> > Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>> >
>> > Hi there!
>> >
>> > Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going
>> away?
>> > I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and
>> until I
>> > do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I
>> am getting
>> > rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over
>> and over. I
>> > do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I
>> just want
>> > to see where all this so called information is actually coming
>> from..? Have
>> > A Great Day! de
>> >
>> > <JF8LT><Jim>.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
>> >> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice
>> bridge to
>> >> sell you. It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real
>> cheap.
>> >>
>> >> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> >>> We don't know WE is going away.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Talk
>> >>> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >>> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
>> >>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> >>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Sky and List
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO
>> and
>> >>> push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.
>> >>> The number of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs
>> >>> would be given jaws SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs
>> would be
>> >>> put toward the cost of jaws. Everyone should be given the
>> convention
>> >>> price for jaws.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Just a thought,
>> >>>
>> >>> Brenda
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>> >>>> Hello Kevin and Vaughn. Here are my thoughts on this. Had the
>> blind
>> >>>> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance, Window-Eyes would
>> not
>> >>>> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened. Below, I'm
>> >>>> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is
>> >>>> on this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Email 1:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Sky,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you
>> >>>> said, had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on
>> >>>> favoured window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be
>> >>>> almost extinct at this moment in time. It does make me angry.
>> These
>> >>>> people are somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The
>> >>>> entire system has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every
>> other
>> >>>> screen reader has become second rate because of the power wielded
>> >>>> withing the blind community. It's alright us saying this but
>> >>>> actually proving it is another matter. If it could be proved and
>> >>>> despite all the negativity, it could. Then what could happen?
>> >>>> Telling the world about how a ruthless power hungry
>> organisation set
>> >>>> out to control the world of the blind with a screen reader? If
>> >>>> people would back us up and not just say that is what happened
>> >>>> without saying I can prove it. To be able to prove it would be the
>> >>>> icing on the cake. It would show the rotten, evil people at
>> jaws who
>> >>>> abused their power and in a way forced vendors to favour jaws
>> above
>> >>>> other screen readers. If enough people were prepared to come
>> out and
>> >>>> back us up we would have enough to at least make
>> >>> those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept
>> responcibility.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true
>> >>>> would be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a
>> >>>> Mergers and nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a
>> dog with
>> > no teeth.
>> >>>> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
>> >>>> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from
>> combining.
>> >>>> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He
>> >>>> will be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media
>> >>>> cdompanies. He owns the majority of the world's media and his
>> >>>> control is beyond anything that the world has seen before. There
>> >>>> isn't much he doesn't own and his political power is immeanse.
>> That
>> >>>> is the exact same as jaws, the rnib, cnib and other
>> organisations for
>> > the blind.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm
>> >>>> what we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could
>> get up
>> >>>> a petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so
>> >>>> called institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It
>> may
>> >>>> not do very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short
>> >>>> time and always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a
>> >>>> corrupt and
>> >>> overbearing system.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Email 2:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: bj colt [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
>> >>>> To: Sky Mundell
>> >>>> Subject: Re: window eyes proposal
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Sky,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but
>> >>>> really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech
>> podcast.
>> >>>> ~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
>> >>>> users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
>> >>>> fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO
>> idea.
>> >>>> I did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
>> >>>> right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new
>> >>>> updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really
>> has
>> >>>> to do something at this stage. We really have to get together and
>> >>>> make sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for
>> >>>> sma's are now entitled to a full refund, no questions asked. No
>> >>>> development means no upgrades, no upgrades equals no need for
>> sma's.
>> >>>> No sma's means
>> >>> they are stealing our money under false pretences.
>> >>>> This time things have gone too far. Something has to be done,
>> >>>> whether it is a petition, legal action to force VFO to state their
>> > position.
>> >>> Something.
>> >>>> All the conjecture on the list has to stop and positive action
>> taken
>> >>>> by those who wish to keep window-eyes alive. What was stated in
>> that
>> >>>> podcast, whether it is the opinions or not of the people who are
>> >>>> making the statements. It was made so clear, "No development of
>> >>>> window-eyes will continue". Only those areas where profit is to be
>> >>>> made
>> >>> will be supported.
>> >>>> That was made abundantly clear. That wasn't just an opinion, it
>> was
>> >>>> a matter of fact.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Live long and prosper, John
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Sky,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yes, they said that the free copy of window-eyes with Office was a
>> >>>> demo, that it wasn't a full version, it only lasted 6 months, it
>> >>>> only lasted a month. Those were regular lies told by vendors. The
>> >>>> vendors favoured Jaws because it brought them more profit. In that
>> >>>> the Big blind organisations reckomended jaws above other screen
>> >>>> readers. When those in Education, employment and other fields
>> >>>> contacted the rnib etc with questions about screen readers.
>> What did
>> >>>> they get? They got jaws and nothing else. No reckomendations for
>> >>>> window-eyes, nothing, only jaws was offered. It happened iwth
>> me. I lost
>> > a job because of it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Think about it? Jaws screen reader was always reckomended,
>> followed
>> >>>> by extensive training in jaws at a higher cost, scripts that were
>> >>>> designed by jaws script writers at a consierable cost. Sky that
>> was
>> >>>> the entire package that was reckomended. The cost of
>> everything, the
>> >>>> dam high cost of everything.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: bj colt [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:51 AM
>> >>>> To: Sky Mundell
>> >>>> Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Proposal
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Sky,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Members of the list have stated that and more. No one was
>> willing to
>> >>>> fight gw's corner. Jaws had too much a grip in institutions,
>> that's
>> >>>> one
>> >>> reason.
>> >>>> The actual proof was so well hidden it could not be proved
>> >>>> conclusivly. Yet it was widely known. As in the post about FS
>> seuing
>> >>>> institutions if they didn't approve of jaws over any other screen
>> >>>> reader. In hindsight, had we known that window-eyes would be
>> put in
>> >>>> jeapordy we would have done something. None of us knew this may
>> >>>> happen and that's another reason we didn't do anything about the
>> > situation.
>> >>>> Sadly it looks as if it is all over for window-eyes. I noticed the
>> >>>> post saying the person contacted aisquared and confirmed that s m
>> >>>> a's were and would be available in the future.
>> >>>> Yet he wasn't willing to actualy prove that was the case. He
>> didn't
>> >>>> post an email or confirmation from asquared that this was the
>> case.
>> >>>> I would have liked to have been given proof of this. My proof
>> is in
>> >>>> the email posted to the group by asquared, where no mention of s m
>> >>>> a's are
>> >>> made.
>> >>>> There isn't much time left for VFO to make an official statement
>> >>>> about the future of window-eyes. Then we will know for certain.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Robert would be livid. He would be doing anything to keep
>> >>>> window-eyes
>> >>> alive.
>> >>>> The same as we will be doing. He will be proud of us when the time
>> >>>> comes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Live long and prosper, John
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> These are my thoughts as well. These emails should get us
>> springing
>> >>>> into action to keep Window-Eyes going. Lets all keep it alive and
>> >>>> get this truth exposed and get Window-Eyes to the top in
>> >>>> organisations for the
>> >>> blind.
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >>>> On Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 AM
>> >>>> To: Vaughan Dodd; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> >>>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Vaughan:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mostly, I see your point and I would aggree, accept that, if VFO
>> >>>> works out a contract with Microsoft which will allow them to
>> create
>> >>>> a JAWS For Office, presumably Window-eyes, and therefore
>> Window-eyes
>> >>>> for office, will be dead so there will only be two free screen
>> readerws.
>> >>>> Also, if WGW Micro created Window-eyes for Office to prevent
>> people
>> >>>> from switching to NVDA, wouldn't that reasoning apply to
>> creating a
>> >>>> JAWS For Office? Not to say that they will because I highly doubt
>> >>>> that that will happen, but maybe it remains a possibility.
>> >>>> Kevin Huber and
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 3/29/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>> I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
>> >>>>> The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme
>> will
>> >>>>> most certainly come to an end.
>> >>>>> The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued
>> development
>> >>>>> of JFW, and they will expect a return on their investment.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing
>> >>>>> user support for NVDA. The dramatic reduction in the addition of
>> >>>>> new features and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the
>> >>>>> deal, and people choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because
>> they
>> >>>>> had access to two free screen readers.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with
>> >>>>> Microsoft, there will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to
>> >>>>> develop interfaces for products from software competitors" and so
>> > forth.
>> >>>>> Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means
>> >>>>> you lose 10% of the available realestate. Because the
>> objective of
>> >>>>> the Orbit
>> >>>> project
>> >>>>> is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a
>> JFW
>> >>>>> driver soon. That driver will probably need to be developed
>> by the
>> >>>>> Orbit consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non
>> >>>>> VFO braille display when you buy JFW. It will develop deals for
>> >>>>> discounting its own displays. This is partly why Optelec are
>> part
>> >>>>> of the
>> >>> group.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Vaughan.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Vaughan.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: Talk
>> >>>>>
>> [mailto:[email protected].
>> >>>>> co m] On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
>> >>>>> To: [email protected]
>> >>>>> Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> and so this is why the vfo group has to just fold window eyes
>> into
>> >>>>> jaws or just give us a free jaws for office option. because for
>> >>>>> some people NVDA does not cut it, and we need something more
>> >>>>> powerful, yet that is low cost or free. a jaws for office would
>> >>>>> work fine especially if you need to do stuff in microsoft office.
>> >>>>> not to mention jaws works good with the orbit
>> >>>>> reader20 prototype set to refreshabraille18 emulation.
>> >>>>> window eyes does not work with orbit20 at all. come on vfo group
>> >>>>> let us
>> >>>> use
>> >>>>> jaws for free if microsoft office is installed on our machines!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of
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>> >>>> author
>> >>>>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For membership options, visit
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.
>> >>>> dodd00
>> >>>> 1%40msd.govt.nz.
>> >>>>> For subscription options, visit
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>> >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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>> >>> For membership options, visit
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