Wiki is a category which refers to small, easy-to-setup, wall-of-text content management systems, usually equipped with a simple default theme, but infinitely customizable with enough tiem and patience.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:17 PM TiddlyTweeter <[email protected]> wrote: > Arlen, not a criticism, but what is the meaning here of "Wiki"? What does > it add? > > My concern about it is its in a way empty of meaning. > > I think if you used a wiki it makes some sense. But if you haven't? > > Just gentle thoughts > Josiah > > On Monday, 9 March 2020 21:07:52 UTC+1, Arlen Beiler wrote: >> >> AtomicWiki >> That's another idea. I think it captures the essence of TiddlyWiki. >> >> Or the office suite :) >> NoteWiki >> SheetWiki >> SlideWiki >> TableWiki >> >> More ideas >> PageWiki >> >> Coral Platform (the idea of living building blocks) >> >> >> >> >> MinnoWiki seems to carry about as much appeal as TiddlyWiki (if you have >> no negative connotation for the word "Tiddly"), I would think. >> >> Arlen >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM TiddlyTweeter <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> My sense is that the real solution to TiddlyWiki gaining more traction >>>> in the marketplace is about creating one or more compelling "killer apps" >>>> that fill widely-perceived, but under-served demands for a particular set >>>> of features rather than avoiding any general aversion to the underlying >>>> TiddlyWiki name, and that changing the name will accomplish almost nothing >>>> in this regard. >>> >>> >>> Eric, am I allowed to agree with both you & Mark S. ? :-) >>> >>> The "killer apps" part of this I fully agree with. It simply makes sense >>> to me to address niches with precise solutions, which is exactly what TW is >>> spectacularly good at. >>> >>> And we may already have them but don't seem to have a way to advance >>> them. >>> >>> So there is, maybe, a missing promo piece? >>> >>> Thoughts >>> TT >>> >>> On Sunday, 8 March 2020 05:11:51 UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote: >>>> >>>> On Saturday, March 7, 2020 at 5:05:36 PM UTC-8, Mark S. wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think if we had stats, you'd find that basically there's about 350 >>>>> million people >>>>> >>>> >>>> If we had stats... then we would have a number... but without stats, >>>> saying "350 million" is just an imagined number. This reminds of an old >>>> saying: "86.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot" :) >>>> >>>> >>>>> who will automatically discount a product that has a childish, >>>>> non-serious, and embarrassing name like "Tiddly--anything". >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think you are vastly overstating the "embarrassing" aspect. I >>>> suspect that is more of a personal response on your part, rather than some >>>> general truth. As I wrote previously: >>>> >>>> *REAL adults... evaluate the cost/benefit relationship to their >>>> objectives, and adopt whatever tech makes sense to meet their goals.* >>>> >>>> Yes, there are PROMOTED products with childish names (e.g. Duck Duck >>>>> Go, which has a TINY sliver of the search market) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Compared to Google, *ALL* other search sites have "a tiny sliver of the >>>> search market". As I previously noted, >>>> https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/top-100-websites-ranking.html >>>> shows >>>> that DuckDuckGo.com has had a 10-fold growth in the past 5 years, and gets >>>> 30 MILLION HITS PER DAY. While this is clearly nowhere near Google's >>>> traffic stats, it's also clearly NOT trivial. >>>> >>>> But TiddlyWiki has no promotion mechanism. It's that initial "bump" >>>>> that is the problem. People are turning away from TW >>>>> before they know anything more because in their language the name says >>>>> "Just a toy -- ok to ignore". >>>>> >>>> >>>> Again, I think that you are vastly overstating the impact that a >>>> product *name* has on decision-making. Sure, some people will dismiss >>>> TiddlyWiki "before they know anything more", but I believe that most people >>>> are not quite that shallow, especially when they are looking for potential >>>> solutions to their needs. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Yes, if there's an evangelizer in the room, they can get past that. >>>>> >>>> >>>> This suggests that TiddlyWiki simply needs some more persuasive >>>> "evangelizing"... and that doesn't necessarily mean someone "in the room". >>>> >>>> Consider a likely scenario: >>>> >>>> Someone is searching for "wiki" software. They start by searching >>>> Google for "wiki programs". Among the top search results are several "wiki >>>> review sites". Being somewhat jaded by internet hype, they skip over the >>>> "advertisement" links and the first few links, which appear to be minor >>>> sites (www.clickonf5.org) or self-promoting (www.helpiewp.com, which >>>> lists its own HelpieWiki first!). The next Google search result is >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software#Personal_wiki_software>; >>>> and Wikipedia is generally well-regarded as having reasonably objective and >>>> useful information (except for certain controversial topics... of which >>>> "wiki software" is NOT!) >>>> >>>> On that Wikipedia page, they find that TiddlyWiki is listed TWICE: >>>> >>>> First, under the "javascript-based" category, where it is described as >>>> >>>> *"...a HTML-JavaScript-based server-less wiki in which the entire >>>>> site/wiki is contained in a single file"* >>>> >>>> >>>> TiddlyWiki is also listed again, under the "personal wiki software" >>>> category, where is it described as >>>> >>>> *"...a free, open-source personal use (single-machine) wiki based on >>>>> HTML/JavaScript for any browser and OS. It supports customization and a >>>>> wide range of addons."* >>>> >>>> >>>> Thus, from this one lookup on Wikipedia, TiddlyWiki is already >>>> "evangelized" as: >>>> * server-less (ease of setup) >>>> * single file (low resource demand) >>>> * free/open source (no expense) >>>> * any browser and OS (cross-platform flexibility) >>>> * customizable/addons (adaptable to a variety of needs) >>>> >>>> and that is just from *two sentences* on one site. Continuing down the >>>> Google search results, the next site that seems promising is >>>> https://www.wikimatrix.org/ >>>> <https://www.wikimatrix.org/show/tiddlywiki> which declares: *WikiMatrix: >>>> Compare Them All,* where you can find this page: >>>> >>>> https://www.wikimatrix.org/show/tiddlywiki >>>> >>>> which give a terse, but reasonably thorough overview of TiddlyWiki's >>>> features and capabilities. >>>> >>>> Then, after reading through those two sites, you might decide to do a >>>> Google search for "TiddlyWiki" itself to see what other sites might mention >>>> it. >>>> >>>> The result includes not only a direct links to tiddlywiki.com and >>>> classic.tiddlywiki.com, but also links to Wikipedia ( >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiddlyWiki), OpenSource.com ( >>>> https://opensource.com/article/19/2/tiddlywiki), GitHub ( >>>> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5), Twitter ( >>>> https://twitter.com/tiddlywiki), and numerous other sites that review >>>> TiddlyWiki, and are almost universally positive (or at least neutral) in >>>> their assessments. >>>> >>>> Thus, with just a little bit of basic searching, TiddlyWiki presents a >>>> very positive and encouraging impression that rapidly overcomes any >>>> knee-jerk reaction to what may initially seem to be a silly name. >>>> >>>> I would need a linguist to find correspondingly diminutive forms for >>>>> every language and/or English dialect. I can only say, >>>>> in many parts it is EMBARRASSING to explain to people that you are >>>>> using a product called TiddlyWiki. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Once again, this seems to be an over-generalization of your own >>>> personal feelings of *embarrassment*, rather than a clear indication of a >>>> wide-spread reaction to the name. The use of the phrase "in many parts", >>>> sound much like the way the current US president says "many people are >>>> saying" when, in fact, it is often just his opinion, without much basis in >>>> *fact*. >>>> >>>> And I wish everyone would quit saying "We would have to change >>>>> everything." or "we would lose our search results." >>>>> You don't have to change everything. You can keep the tiddlywiki.com >>>>> site, the forum, pretty much everything except >>>>> the publicly exposed name of the product. >>>>> >>>> >>>> There have already been several suggestions of this variety, where a >>>> "publicly exposed name" might help target specific markets, but still >>>> reference "powered by TiddlyWiki". >>>> >>>> Mark... I appreciate your concerns... but -- with the utmost respect -- >>>> I think you've gotten into a "can't see the forest for the trees" mindset >>>> about changing the name as a panacea for the real issues. >>>> >>>> My sense is that the real solution to TiddlyWiki gaining more traction >>>> in the marketplace is about creating one or more compelling "killer apps" >>>> that fill widely-perceived, but under-served demands for a particular set >>>> of features rather than avoiding any general aversion to the underlying >>>> TiddlyWiki name, and that changing the name will accomplish almost nothing >>>> in this regard. >>>> >>>> So... rather than expending lots of effort to re-label something that >>>> WE already know is good, let's focus on building and promoting those killer >>>> apps that make the benefits of TiddlyWiki even more clear to others. >>>> >>>> enjoy, >>>> -e >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a8b71ad2-f9ba-4f98-a59c-54c3bc1256a6%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a8b71ad2-f9ba-4f98-a59c-54c3bc1256a6%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3b3bd70a-9754-498f-886d-ef71421ef001%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/3b3bd70a-9754-498f-886d-ef71421ef001%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/CAJ1vdSSLLu2H2MRCPwujYnJbuQQWj7xjrO%3DEhyjkUCfxUfwvBA%40mail.gmail.com.
