David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers in the first story as well. The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its storyview to classic. I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore serve as the default. Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that. Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone. My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can be used to trigger two different modals: - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main story or shift+click to open in the second story. - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts. This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished the migration and updates. Regards, Saq On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: > > Hi Saq > > A user on Twitter wrote this: > > My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in the > main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the search > bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, hotkeys for > moving a focused tiddler into the main column. > > I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot of > tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to > find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with > a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I > am undecided. What do you think about his feedback? > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote: >> >> Thanks Saq >> >> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage >> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this >> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it >> with a Favorites plugin tab. >> >> Blessings >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of >>> me hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two >>> story layouts into TiddlyBlink. >>> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should >>> break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this >>> a bit more systematically. >>> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink >>> into it on the parallel tab on your demo at >>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>> >>> If you want a third story in the parallel tab.... that could work too >>> but would require a few tweaks. >>> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace drawer, >>> where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need for what you >>> are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a similar setup >>> in one of my wikis. >>> >>> I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep you >>> updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product owner >>> representing everyone that does and might use the end product you are >>> working on :) >>> >>> Regards, >>> Saq >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* bold*. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> I'm glad the quick integration was helpful. I suggest we move beyond >>>>> that but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and >>>>> behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits and >>>>> even tweak things if necessary. >>>>> >>>>> Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them. >>>>> So the functionality you want is: >>>>> - shift click to open in the second story >>>>> >>>> *Yes* >>>> >>>>> - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template? >>>>> >>>> >>>> *?? No, I don't think so.* >>>> >>>>> - divert buttons >>>>> >>>> >>>> *Yes. * >>>> >>>> >>>> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It wasn't >>>> working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would work?* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> A couple of other things to consider: >>>>> - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there were >>>>> issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for more >>>>> than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do you >>>>> want >>>>> to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a different >>>>> view >>>>> template that makes it easier to fold them? >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.* >>>> >>>> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold tiddlers. >>>> See how this is done in Roam in the attached gif* >>>> >>>> >>>>> - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story >>>>> even if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later >>>>> and >>>>> pick up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I sometimes >>>>> use the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to >>>>> come >>>>> back to it when needed. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so >>>> people are aware of it.* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we >>>>> would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or cleaned >>>>> up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am >>>>> sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can >>>>> leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule is >>>>> a >>>>> bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So I >>>>> go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on >>>> this. You and so many people here have been so generous with their time >>>> and >>>> skills. But please don't think of it as being for me, but for TiddlyWiki, >>>> to have a wickedly good TW 'app' to get people on board* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the >>>>> settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we can >>>>> customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision. >>>>> Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a good >>>>> cut off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel like >>>>> with >>>>> a horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough screen >>>>> space for two stories. >>>>> You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar >>>>> overlapping the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and >>>>> otherwise keep it hidden. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I am not sure. I think my laptop is roughly standard size: 15" >>>> diagonal screen, 1920 x 1080 resolution, and the tiddlers are just wide >>>> enough to work on even when the sidebar is showing.* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Note that the divert buttons are already in that prototype I posted, >>>>> they just aren't visible until two stories are active, which from what I >>>>> remember is purely css based. Making that visible at all times would >>>>> therefore not be difficult. >>>>> $:/_sq/Stories/divertTiddlerMacro >>>>> >>>> >>>> *Oh, and sure enough, they are visible on >>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>>> <https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html>, how did I miss that?* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I haven't looked into packaging things as a plugin for TW5 but if >>>>> necessary we can go that route. Alternatively creating a button people >>>>> can >>>>> drag is easy. We either tag all the tiddlers or just use a filter as >>>>> below: >>>>> <$button class="tc-tag-label tc-btn-invisible" >>>>> dragFilter="[prefix[$:/_sq/Stories]] >>>>> $:/core/ui/Buttons/more-tiddler-actions >>>>> $:/config/_sq/Stories/story2 $:/config/Tiddlers/TitleLinks >>>>> $:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/options/sidebarlayout">Drag me to >>>>> install</$button> >>>>> >>>>> Button widgets support a dragFilter attribute so we can make the >>>>> payload for drag and drop whatever we need it to be. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I actually have TiddlyBlink set up so that the user can drag the 'tb' >>>> tag pill to his or her own file. I would prefer to just tag one sq/stories >>>> plugin tiddler so that that is added to the list.* >>>> >>>> >>>> *Thanks again, Saq! Blessings to you. Hope whatever personal issues you >>>> were facing are behind you, for your sake.* >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Saq >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:55:54 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those using >>>>>> laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could have a >>>>>> list >>>>>> of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE tiddlers >>>>>> open >>>>>> side by side. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop zones >>>>>> are superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and divert >>>>>> buttons. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a special >>>>>> version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able to drag it >>>>>> in >>>>>> with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag each of those >>>>>> tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin? >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users >>>>>> would see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to see >>>>>> them >>>>>> because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be >>>>>> sufficient for most users? >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I like >>>>>> that functionality. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture of >>>>>> generosity and genius! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with >>>>>>> that I hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> will hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this >>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown >>>>>>> when there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link: >>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab: >>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab): >>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Original version of my two story implementation: >>>>>>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Saq >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected] <javascript:>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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