See my comments in *bold* On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:19 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq.imt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave: interesting, as my personal preference would be for one tiddler on > the left and multiple on the right for reference :) > *Actually, I have the same preference too! I actually wrote the opposite words then transposed them. I felt maybe I was pushing my preferences in ways that went against the format of TiddlyWiki and Roam. The reasons I went against my personal preferences are these: * *1) TiddlyWiki has a left story river, so people might expect it there, and anything supplemental tends to be on the right* *2) Roam, which TiddlyBlink is imitating, has default working page on the left as well, and shift click to open secondary page(s) to the right.* > Anyway, we might start off as I am suggesting simply because its easier to > get working and then take it from there. The zoomin storyview - which we > need to show just one tiddler - isn't playing nice in the second story at > the moment. > *Okay, that is fine. * > Ideally I do think this needs to be user configurable and we should be > able to manage that. > *Great* > > I think we need to get something usable together and make it avaiable as a > proof of concept or beta version, and hopefully get some feedback from > people using it before we try to refine the behaviour too much. > *Good idea* > > Btw, those icons for one vs two stories are an eyesore. Any suggestions > for better icons we can use? > *Not sure I have seen the icons that you are referring to.* > > I also have some other thoughts regarding the UI for TiddlyBlink since > it's open on my screen: > - I can't tell what the + button in the tiddler toolbar is for, it needs a > tooltip. > *Good idea. Adding it to the list of needed changes. * > - the eye icon and the menu it shows might be better suited at the bottom > of the tiddler in the references area, would reduce clutter at the top too. > Or altogether hidden away in a global settings menu if it wont be used too > often. > *I plan to move the eye icon and the full screen icon to the top of the 'more' menu* - suggest making the "fold"/"fold others" feature more easily accessible at > least in the tiddlers in the second (right hand) story. > *Once you get a beta of the main components I want to play with the folding to see how it should ideally go, including CSS changes for smaller text in the tiddler titles* > - the "more actions" dropdown button of the tiddler toolbar being in the > middle of other buttons rather than on one of the edges means it easier to > overlook that it offers several options in a dropdown menu > *My goal had been to keep the core icons in the same arrangement and the TiddlyBlink icons separate. I think what you are describing will be less of a problem when I move the two icons into more.* *Thanks again for all the thought you are putting into this.* > > Regards, > Saq > > On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 6:08:20 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >> >> Thanks Saq for your helpful thoughts. >> >> I think I like the idea of a right hand column with one tiddler only, and >> a left hand column with scrolling story river. Great to hear that could be >> configurable by the user. >> >> I have no personal preferences regarding hotkeys. I don't get the >> impression that they would be that helpful for TiddlyBlink. >> >> I will look forward to seeing what you cook up, as time allows. Blessings! >> >> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote: >>> >>> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project >>> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather >>> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. >>> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I >>> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals >>> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions. >>> >>> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed >>> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if >>> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to >>> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only >>> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them >>> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second >>> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most >>> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in >>> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers >>> in the first story as well. >>> >>> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a >>> user configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration >>> demo, the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open >>> whereas the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple >>> tiddlers open. Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as >>> changing its storyview to classic. >>> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what >>> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore >>> serve as the default. >>> >>> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself >>> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem >>> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and >>> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've >>> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the >>> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that. >>> >>> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has >>> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and >>> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that >>> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone. >>> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that >>> can be used to trigger two different modals: >>> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the >>> main story or shift+click to open in the second story. >>> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts. >>> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently >>> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and >>> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core >>> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished >>> the migration and updates. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Saq >>> >>> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Saq >>>> >>>> A user on Twitter wrote this: >>>> >>>> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in >>>> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the >>>> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, >>>> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column. >>>> >>>> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot >>>> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to >>>> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with >>>> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I >>>> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Saq >>>>> >>>>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its >>>>> homepage https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak >>>>> it at this point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may >>>>> replace it with a Favorites plugin tab. >>>>> >>>>> Blessings >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result >>>>>> of me hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel >>>>>> two story layouts into TiddlyBlink. >>>>>> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working >>>>>> should break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we >>>>>> do this a bit more systematically. >>>>>> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink >>>>>> into it on the parallel tab on your demo at >>>>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want a third story in the parallel tab.... that could work too >>>>>> but would require a few tweaks. >>>>>> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace >>>>>> drawer, where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need >>>>>> for >>>>>> what you are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a >>>>>> similar setup in one of my wikis. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep >>>>>> you updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product >>>>>> owner representing everyone that does and might use the end product you >>>>>> are >>>>>> working on :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Saq >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* >>>>>>> bold*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz <saq....@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm glad the quick integration was helpful. I suggest we move >>>>>>>> beyond that but take a little time to discuss exactly which >>>>>>>> functionality >>>>>>>> and behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary >>>>>>>> bits >>>>>>>> and even tweak things if necessary. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them. >>>>>>>> So the functionality you want is: >>>>>>>> - shift click to open in the second story >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Yes* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *?? No, I don't think so.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - divert buttons >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Yes. * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It >>>>>>> wasn't working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would >>>>>>> work?* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A couple of other things to consider: >>>>>>>> - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there >>>>>>>> were issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for >>>>>>>> more than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> want to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> view template that makes it easier to fold them? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold >>>>>>> tiddlers. See how this is done in Roam in the attached gif* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story >>>>>>>> even if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> pick up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I >>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>> use the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to >>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>> back to it when needed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so >>>>>>> people are aware of it.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components >>>>>>>> we would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or >>>>>>>> cleaned up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I am sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that >>>>>>>> we can >>>>>>>> leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule >>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>> bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. >>>>>>>> So I >>>>>>>> go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on >>>>>>> this. You and so many people here have been so generous with their time >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> skills. But please don't think of it as being for me, but for >>>>>>> TiddlyWiki, >>>>>>> to have a wickedly good TW 'app' to get people on board* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the >>>>>>>> settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision. >>>>>>>> Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a >>>>>>>> good cut off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> with a horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough >>>>>>>> screen space for two stories. >>>>>>>> You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar >>>>>>>> overlapping the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and >>>>>>>> otherwise keep it hidden. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I am not sure. I think my laptop is roughly standard size: 15" >>>>>>> diagonal screen, 1920 x 1080 resolution, and the tiddlers are just wide >>>>>>> enough to work on even when the sidebar is showing.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that the divert buttons are already in that prototype I >>>>>>>> posted, they just aren't visible until two stories are active, which >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> what I remember is purely css based. Making that visible at all times >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> therefore not be difficult. >>>>>>>> $:/_sq/Stories/divertTiddlerMacro >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Oh, and sure enough, they are visible on >>>>>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html >>>>>>> <https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html>, how did I miss >>>>>>> that?* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I haven't looked into packaging things as a plugin for TW5 but if >>>>>>>> necessary we can go that route. Alternatively creating a button people >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> drag is easy. We either tag all the tiddlers or just use a filter as >>>>>>>> below: >>>>>>>> <$button class="tc-tag-label tc-btn-invisible" >>>>>>>> dragFilter="[prefix[$:/_sq/Stories]] >>>>>>>> $:/core/ui/Buttons/more-tiddler-actions >>>>>>>> $:/config/_sq/Stories/story2 $:/config/Tiddlers/TitleLinks >>>>>>>> $:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/options/sidebarlayout">Drag me to >>>>>>>> install</$button> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Button widgets support a dragFilter attribute so we can make the >>>>>>>> payload for drag and drop whatever we need it to be. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I actually have TiddlyBlink set up so that the user can drag the >>>>>>> 'tb' tag pill to his or her own file. I would prefer to just tag one >>>>>>> sq/stories plugin tiddler so that that is added to the list.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Thanks again, Saq! Blessings to you. Hope whatever personal issues >>>>>>> you were facing are behind you, for your sake.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Saq >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:55:54 PM UTC+2, David Gifford >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those >>>>>>>>> using laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could >>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>> list of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE >>>>>>>>> tiddlers >>>>>>>>> open side by side. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop >>>>>>>>> zones are superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and >>>>>>>>> divert >>>>>>>>> buttons. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a >>>>>>>>> special version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> drag it in with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag >>>>>>>>> each >>>>>>>>> of those tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users >>>>>>>>> would see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to >>>>>>>>> see them >>>>>>>>> because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be >>>>>>>>> sufficient for most users? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I >>>>>>>>> like that functionality. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture >>>>>>>>> of generosity and genius! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with >>>>>>>>>> that I hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> will hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this >>>>>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically >>>>>>>>>> shown when there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a >>>>>>>>>> tiddler >>>>>>>>>> link: >>>>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab: >>>>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab): >>>>>>>>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Original version of my two story implementation: >>>>>>>>>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Saq >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>> the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12b390ee-4d1b-470e-976c-bb0fe4e827a0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/89c499b2-1d1f-49c0-8105-af613c2e2a13%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/d60QYKycUCY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/80d69d71-5196-4f44-89ef-1ba22092fe9b%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/80d69d71-5196-4f44-89ef-1ba22092fe9b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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