Hi Ed > Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions for > new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes me > wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have to > have a working Tiddlywiki?" > > With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's > "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all > recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but > presumably going back comparably far. So right now TW5 is usable in browsers > that go about 8 years back, which is nice. And TWC support obviously goes > back way further than that. > > How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was > acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
That would be to be decided. In 2010/1 we targeted the browsers that were in common use at the time, and presumably we’d do the same again. Nowadays, most browsers automatically update and so perhaps there might be less incentive to be as conservative as we have been. >From a developer perspective, HTML and CSS have actually changed relatively >little over the last 10 years, it’s in the area of JavaScript that things have >radically improved: async/await, modules, classes, etc. Making these features >available in the core will make the developers more productive, and make it >easier for developers with contemporary JavaScript experience to join the >project. Best wishes Jeremy > > On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com > <http://gmail.com/> wrote: >> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community we >> have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for >> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. > > I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up the > development more purposefully. > >> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word >> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is >> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me >> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources? > > That is indeed one of the critical questions. > > Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that > ranges between: > > * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters > * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives > when Googling > * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki > * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity > > That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently > and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that > view said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the > trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my > little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might > hold for many of us who have invested time and effort in the project. So I > have to pay attention to feedback that comes from a different perspective, > because I'm never going to be able to assume that perspective myself. > > The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the design > of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. After 10 > years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of the early > design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for example, > "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more decisive > progress if we lost some of that baggage. > > The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because another > bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a mistake to > reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt that it was > unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the same name, and > struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were different versions of the > same thing. > > So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things > are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a stake. > The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an existing > name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community. > > In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal > overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical > consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy. > > >> >> Cheers, >> Saq > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com >> <applewebdata://1BE3B16B-E0A1-4CED-8E0A-1DB66B8FD3E0>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/46fa1057-6405-463e-8ec2-b67532599227n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/46fa1057-6405-463e-8ec2-b67532599227n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/80869834-bb6c-44cd-9b74-96fcc7267286n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/80869834-bb6c-44cd-9b74-96fcc7267286n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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