The problem with that approach, Ivan, is that your Christian Science friend may not spot the sign when presented with it. Some people are like that. They might not see a sign even if it consisted of getting slapped around the face with a wet fish (or two wet fishes and five loaves, for that matter) -- or having it patiently described to them in a multitude of emails from sincere mailing list subscribers.
So you've been using JSTL in earnest; and for whatever reason things got confusing; you needed to make a radical decision to calm the confusion; so you had your epiphany and became a "Born Again Scripleteer"; but there's no need to get obnoxious, thumping your new Bible, and quoting "The Scriptlets according to Saint Ivan", forcing them down everyone's throats. Instead, just go about your business, productively, changing the world from your new viewpoint and setting a good example. Peace and religious tolerance, Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:28 AM Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto ever happen Ok let's settle this argument simple. Tonight, I'll ask my Christian Science friend to talk to Jesus, and ask him the following: "Jesus, if EL really DOES decrease performance significantly, and should not be used at all, please give me absolutely NO sign. However, if EL is a great thing and should be used by everyone, please give me a sign". I'll report to you in the morning and let you know what was God's opinion on that. > -----Original Message----- > From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 4:02 PM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worstthingsto > ever happen > > > > > > > If this is the case then I ask you why Java has been the number one > > > programming language for 4 years now? > > Source of this statistic? > > > > I assumed that this was fairly common knowledge. I remember when it > surpassed C++ in Febuary of 2000 (I thought at the time in development > hours). Having been a Java programmer since 1997, this was a pretty big > deal for me. I even remembered the month/year it happened (which made it > easire for me to find this report). So here is the original report, a > Bloor Research study from Febuary of 2000. It even has a cute little > graph that plots the various languages-- http://www.bloor- > research.com/research_library.php?pid=282 > > Now that I look back at it I see that this is when the *demand* for java > skills surpassed that of C++ skills. It looks like it was just March of > last year > (http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/edge2003/factsheet.pdf) that > that Java actually surpassed C++ in development hours. This was of course > the eventual outcome of it's demand surpassing all other skills. The data > from this Sun press release is from the Gartner Group BTW. > > Java is King, there are really no "if"s, "and"s or "butt"s about it. > > As to your performance issues, I don't have them so I can only sugest that > you can examine your environement, your compiler options (are you using > hotspot?) and your getters. All of my bottlenecks are in my DB calls. I > have done performance analysis and never came up in my EL. As I sugested > earlier, maybe you can run hprof and see where the bottleneck really is? > > Also, I considered myself a fairly hardcode C++ developer (having done it > from '95 to 2002). If I am ever in a situation where my memory usage is > critical, I'm almost certainly in C or C++. If performance is important, > I consider C or C++. But IPC, threading, and networking is so > phenominally better on Java not to mention the benefits of garbage > collection and all of it's other features that I am hard pressed to leave > it or go JNI. I did need JNI recently for some file system stuff that I > wanted tweaked (traversing file systems with 100s of thousands of files). > > Daniel > > > > As was recognized long ago, > > > performance is not everything. And in fact, means little > > when you can't > > > get your product out the door because you are still trying > > to chase down > > > memory leaks, buffer overruns and corrupted pointers. > > > > When performance dependes on whether you use <%=hello%> > > or ${hello}, I'll stick with the first one, considering that > > it boosts performance up by like 5 times. > > > > > As somebody else > > > said, C++ programmers will understand this. > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:33 AM > > > To: Tomcat Users List > > > Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of > > the worstthingsto > > > ever happen > > > > > > > > > le 4/07/04 14:27, SH Solutions Ð [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Ðcrit : > > > > > > > Right now, I would say that java applications (if well > > written) are at > > > least > > > > half as fast as c applications (also well written). > > > > > > Which means that when your java app is in competition with > > a native app, > > > youve lost the market. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > Eric VERGNAUD - JLynx Software > > > Cutting-edge technologies and > > > services for software companies > > > web: http://www.jlynx.com > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > --- > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 05.07.2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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