nah:es:en
will translate all the msgid's from english to the existing msgstr's in Nahuatl (a native language in Mexico like Quechua), if not found gettext will try to find a msgstr in Spanish, if not found will show the msgid (in english).
AFAIK this is a configuration in the language pack of the distribution or as an inviroment variable.
2006/10/11, Amos Batto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
Javier,
We are not looking for the ability to simply change
the language. We need the ability to see both
languages at the same time. We want to create programs
where both the Spanish and the Quechua are displayed
on the screen at the same time.
Let me give you a simple example. If you have the menu
item "Edit hyper-link", quechua-speakers need to see
both "editar hiper-enlace" and "Sinchi-wataña
hinayachiy" at the same time. First of all, most
Quechua-speakers can only read Spanish, so they are
just learning how to read in Quechua. Secondly, most
owners of ciber-cafes and teachers in schools don't
speak Quechua and they won't install software on their
computers if they can't read it. In the Andes, better
educated people generally don't speak Quechua, whereas
poorer and more rural people speak it. Furthermore
most people don't use computers at home. They go to
ciber-cafes to use the computer, so it is very
important that the software get installed in public
places. Finally, the word "hyperlink" doesn't exist
in Quechua, so we had to invent a word. Even somebody
who reads and writes Quechua very well is probably not
going to know that "sinchi-wataña" means "hyperlink".
For all these reasons, we need bilingual software.
These are the problems faced by most indigenous and
minority languages in the world. There are 6000
languages in the world, and the majority of them are
mainly oral languages, which people are just beginning
to put in a written form.
For these reasons I added the functions --bilingual,
--statusbar, --strip and --replace to the script
instrans.php. I'm not sure that any of these
functions should be added to gettext. They are pretty
specialized and if a translation team wants to do
bilingual translations, they can use instrans.php.
However, I do think that a "COPY language" flag is
something that would be used by many translators, so
I'm advocating that it be added to gettext.
Cheers,
Amos
--- Javier SOLA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Amos,
>
> Some technical points that have nothing to do with
> gettext:
>
> - You can have bilingual builds of OpenOffice or
> other products, and
> change from one language to the other. We do that
> already for some
> languages. The solution is not in putting two
> strings in the same
> language pack, but to include two language packs in
> the build.
>
> - Being able to copy to the target string
> (translation) from Spanish
> rather than from English is a function of the
> localisation editor, not
> of the data format. Gettext or some other tools
> provide files that have
> the necessary information. The editor must learn how
> to use this
> information and make the translator's life as easy
> as possible...
> allowing ofr example, copying from the third
> language (Spanish in our
> case) to the translation field.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Javier
>
>
>
> Amos Batto wrote:
>
> >Hi Bruno,
> >
> >The features in instrans.php aren't recommendations
> >for how to change the PO/gettext format. Basically,
> I
> >was trying to let people on the list know that a
> tool
> >exists that they can use while they are waiting for
> >the the PO/gettext format to be updated.
> >
> >Instrans.php is just a quick and dirty tool for
> using
> >the existing PO format, which is very inadequate
> for
> >translators who can't read English or work with
> >languages which borrow heavily from other
> languages.
> >I wrote instrans.php for our group of Quechua
> >translators to solve their problems.
> >
> >--- Bruno Haible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hello Amos,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>You can download it:
> >>>http://www.runasimipi.org/instrans.zip
> >>>
> >>>See the documentation for the scipt at:
> >>>http://www.runasimipi.org/instrans-en.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Thank you for making this available. Yesterday I
> >>looked at it, but am a
> >>bit confused about the purpose of some features,
> and
> >>therefore whether
> >>I should consider putting these features into GNU
> >>gettext.
> >>
> >>The current plan is to use a syntax like
> >>
> >> msgid "English"
> >> msgid[es] "Spanish"
> >> msgstr "Translation"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I would love to see this added to PO/gettext! It
> would
> >help our quechua translations a lot.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>- --msgstr: "Insert the translated phrases en the
> >>msgstrs which are empty."
> >> This sounds to be useful for dialects, but the
> >>usual way of working
> >> with dialects is that the user has several
> entries
> >>in the LANGUAGE
> >> variable, e.g. LANGUAGE="de_CH:de".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >This is very useful for languages which borrow
> heavily
> >from other languages. In Quechua, almost every
> word
> >related to computers is borrowed from Spanish, so
> this
> >isn't a dialectal difference. (I would really piss
> off
> >Andean linguists if I dared call Quechua a dialect
> of
> >Spanish!)
> >
> >The dialectual specification is useful in some
> cases,
> >but not in this case. Every dialect of Quechua is
> >going to use "computadora" (the Spanish word for
> >"computer").
> >
> >If you want to accomodate indigenous languages like
> >Quechua which borrow heavily from dominate world
> >languages like Spanish, my suggestion is to create
> a
> >flag to copy directly from the dominant language to
> >the target language (if the msgstr is an empty
> >string). Something like:
> > COPY language
> >
> >If no language is specified, then it would default
> to
> >the language of the msgid. If the translator
> >
> >For instance:
> >
> >#, copy es
> >msgid "Print Layout"
> >msgid[es] "Diseño de impresión"
> >msgstr ""
> >
> >Gettext would copy "Di&seño de impresión" into the
> >msgstr.
> >
> >
> >#, copy
> >msgid "Print Layout"
> >msgid[es] "Diseño de impresión"
> >msgstr ""
> >
> >Gettext would copy "Print Layout" into the msgstr.
> >
> >
> >#, copy es
> >msgid "Print Layout"
> >msgid[es] "Diseño de impresión"
> >msgstr "Nit'ipaq qhawana"
> >
> >In this case, gettext would ignore the COPY flag
> and
> >use the string "Nit'ipaq qhawana" found in the
> msgstr.
> >(Maybe gettext could give a warning message in this
> >case to alert the translator that he/she forgot to
> >delete the COPY flag.)
> >
> >Having a COPY flag in the PO/gettext format would
> make
> >life much simpler for our group of translators.
> >Roughly 15% to 20% of the strings in our Quechua
> >translation of AbiWord were direct copies from the
> >Spanish. Everytime the Spanish PO translation
> changes,
> >we have to laboriously go through our Quechua PO
> file
> >and copy every change. It is a real pain in the
> neck.
> > If gettext would do it automatically, it would
> save
> >us a lot of time.
> >
> >I noticed that PoEdit has a function (Alt + C) to
> >directly copy the string from the msgid to msgstr,
> so
> >I think that a COPY flag would be used by a lot of
> >translators (not just people working with
> indigenous
> >languages like Quechua). When the msgid changes,
> the
> >msgstr will automatically change as well, and the
> >translator won't have to laboriously change it
> >everytime. (In this case, the PO phrase will still
> be
> >marked with FUZZY to alert the translator that the
> >msgid has changed, but he/she won't have to do
> >anything except review the phrase to make sure that
> >he/she still wants to directly copy the msgid into
> the
> >msgstr.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Thus no need to use a separator, no need for
> >>--replace.
> >>- What's the purpose of --comment versus
> >>--bilingual?
> >>- Is --statusbar something of general interest?
> >>- What's the purpose of --strip?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >I guess my documentation isn't very clear. The
> >--strip, --replace, --bilingual, and --statusbar
> >options in instrans.php are only useful for
> >translators who want to make bilingual programs.
> >
> >These are features that are probably only useful
> when
> >dealing with indigenous or minority languages which
> >are mostly oral and rarely written. In the case of
> >Quechua, very few Quechua-speakers know how to read
> >and write their native language. In school they
> only
> >learn how to read and write in Spanish. It is
> >probably the same for most African languages. With
> >the exception of a few languages like Swahili most
> >Africans are only trained to read and write in
> English
> >or French or Portuguese, not the language that they
> >generally speak.
> >
> >
> >The --comment option is for inserting the PO phrase
> >from an intermediate language into the comment
> field
> >of the PO file. This is used by translators who
> can't
> >read English. For instance, we inserted the Spanish
> >translations into the Quechua PO files like this:
> >
> ># [es] Diseño de impresión
> >msgid "Print Layout"
> >msgstr "Nit'ipaq qhawana"
> >
> >
> >The --bilingual option is used when you want the
> >msgstr to contain two languages. For instance, if
> you
> >want to have both a Quechua and Spanish translation
> in
> >the msgstr:
> >
> >msgid "Print Layout"
> >msgstr "Nit'ipaq qhawana | Diseño de impresión"
> >
> >We needed this option for two reasons:
> >1. A lot of owners of cyber-cafes in the Andes
> can't
> >speak Quechua, so the program needs to be bilingual
> or
> >they won't install it. They also have to support
> the
> >program, and they can't help the user, if they
> can't
> >read the menus.
> >2. A lot of Quechua-speakers can only read and
> write
> >in Spanish, so they need the Spanish translation to
> >learn to read their native language. It sounds
> funny,
> >but this is the sad reality of most indigenous
> >language in the world.
> >
> >What we found, however, is that the --bilingual
> option
> >made long strings which often didn't fit in dialog
> box
> >buttons. So we designed the --statusbar option to
> >insert the translation in the statusbar. For
> instance,
> >the Menus would be in Quechua but the Status bar
> >message would be the Spanish translation of the
> menus.
> >
> >The problem with copying phrases from the menu to
> the
> >statusbar is that the menus strings contain
> variables
> >(ex: %s) and hotkeys (ex: &), but the statusbar
> >doesn't contain these things. So I designed the
> >--strip option to get rid of hotkeys and the
> --replace
> >option to replace variables.
> >
> >OK, hopefully that clarifies.
> >
> >If PO/gettext is changed to add msgid[language],
> then
> >there is no need for the --comment option.
> >
> >The rest of the options are only useful for
> creating
> >bilingual programs. I'm not sure how many people
> will
> >be wanting to do this in the future. What do you
> guys
> >think?
> >
> >Maybe the gettext documentation could have note
> >pointing to instrans.php (or some other tool) for
> >translators who want to create bilingual programs.
> >There is a real need for bilingual programs. For
> >instance in Latin America, speakers of Quechua,
> >Aymara, Maya, Guarani, Mapuche, ...etc. would like
> to
> >see bilingual programs for their language.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Amos BAtto
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> >Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get
> the chance to share your
> >opinions on IT & business topics through brief
> surveys -- and earn cash
>
>http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> >_______________________________________________
> >Translate-pootle mailing list
> >[email protected]
>
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support
> web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated
> technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1
> based on Apache Geronimo
>
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Translate-pootle mailing list
> [email protected]
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
_______________________________________________
Translate-pootle mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
--
Trabajar, la mejor arma para tu superación
"de grano en grano, se hace la arena" (R) (entrámite, pero para los cuates: LIBRE)
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
_______________________________________________ Translate-pootle mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
