*************
The following message is relayed to you by  [email protected]
************
You are where ever you consider yourself to be , in or out of a body or neither 
in nor out of a body . Total freedom of choice is just that. 

Not just the body is in me. Anything that was ever created ever in all the 
universes is in me. If i considerate that way . Its my choice .  



On Aug 6, 2010, at 12:04 PM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> wrote:

> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  [email protected]
> ************
> Slim wrote:
> > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can one 
> > be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in the 
> > past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a 
> > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " but 
> > with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full native 
> > state abilities restored.
> > 
> 
> Thank you for your response. To me personally, it's not difficult to 
> understand at all. It's actually very easy. I can be in the past, present 
> time and the future at the same time.
> 
>  > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total freedom 
> of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice that you 
> have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have described right 
> now but i still have a case.
> > 
> > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean 
> > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . What 
> > about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have viewpoint, have 
> > sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you have described is a 
> > dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher ability , no freer 
> > state of being than total freedom of choice . To have or not have. 
> > 
>  
> This is a matter of viewpoint. I like your viewpoint and I like what your 
> posting here, but it still your viewpoint. You are right from your point of 
> view, just as I am right from my point of view. There is no absolute 
> rightness or absolute wrongness, just subjective rightness and subjective 
> wrongness. This too is a matter of viewpoint.
>  
> I will clarify my definition of no-case a little bit more. When I look at 
> Scientologist (especially in the CoS), I see beings who want to be some kind 
> of super OT spiritual being. A spiritual being is somethingness and it 
> belongs to the 7th dynamic. Even if scientologists become a 
> super-powered-somethingness, it's still a somethingness. These scientologist 
> have a false end goal, namely the goal to become something. I would not want 
> you are anyone else to fall for this trap.
>  
> You are not something. You are the infinite nothingness which is Dynamic 8. 
> Wanting to be something is the reason for the downfall of your abilities. 
> Remember in the beginning there was the decision to be. To be what exactly? 
> To be something. Being something is way better than being nothing. Can you 
> imagine being nothing. Most beings can not, because it's too heavily charged. 
> Try imagining being nothing and experiencing infinite loneliness. I can tell 
> you from my own experience that this charge is almost unbearable.
>  
> All creations are the result of the almost infinite resistance to being 
> NOTHING. Infinite nothingness (dynamic 8) is not consciousness.
> Infinite nothingness is POTENTIAL consciousness. It has the ability to wake 
> up. Once the infinite nothingness wakes up it has transformed itself from 
> potential consciouness to consciousness. Thus a viewpoint is born. This 
> viewpoint is not dynamic 8, it's dynamic 7 and it's a limitation from what 
> you really are.
>  
> As long as your talking about a viewpoint you are at least talking about 
> dynamic 7. From my mocked-up point of view, you will eventually have to fully 
> as-is your current viewpoint, drop it entirely, be out of all games and than 
> come back with full power. You can than pretend to be a 7th dynamic creation 
> while fully knowing that you are the 8th dynamic which is infinite 
> nothingness. 
>  
> Why would one want to limit oneself to just one viewpoint, if you can be all 
> viewpoints in existence. You are everything and nothing at the same time. 
>  
> I really do understand your viewpoint, because I am you. I have tried to 
> reach the ulitimate goal, while holding on to my own viewpoint and it just 
> did not happen, beacuase it can not happen. As long as you hold on to a 
> viewpoint, you will be limited to the limitations of that viewpoint. This 
> situation will only be handled in the final instance when one is willing to 
> drop one's own viepoint and become the infinite nothingness which is what you 
> really are.
>  
> Happy tromming,
>  
> Carlos
>  
> P.s.: By the way YOU are not in the body. The body is in YOU. Only a 7th 
> dynamic viewpoint, with the awareness of being a spiritual being, considers 
> itself to be IN the body.
>  
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:16:19 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization
> > 
> > *************
> > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> > ************
> > 
> > 
> > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can one 
> > be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in the 
> > past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a 
> > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " but 
> > with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full native 
> > state abilities restored.
> > 
> > Until you get " there " you wont have the ability to mock it up. It's too 
> > occluded. Once you are even able to mock it up you will almost be done with 
> > level five.
> > 
> > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total freedom 
> > of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice that you 
> > have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have described right 
> > now but i still have a case.
> > 
> > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean 
> > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . What 
> > about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have viewpoint, have 
> > sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you have described is a 
> > dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher ability , no freer 
> > state of being than total freedom of choice . To have or not have. 
> > 
> > When we know a past scene, we are there in the past scene and we bring it 
> > to the present time where we time break it . As a spiritual being , when i 
> > go , literally go to the space and time i had native state , i will have 
> > native state ability. Then it's a matter of being " there " and returning 
> > to present time at the same time . It time breaks and i will have my full 
> > native state ability in present time again . A being can only be in one 
> > place at a time. When you view a past scene you are viewing the past , you 
> > are there and you have the ability you had while you are there. When you 
> > view then and now simultaneously, you time break it , you regain that 
> > ability in the now. 
> > 
> > When you view the center of the onion or native state and completely leave 
> > present time to be there, you will have your native state ability restored 
> > at the time you had it , but when you come back to present time without 
> > time breaking it you will lose the ability . If you time break the center 
> > of the onion from the center of the onion, while in present time you are in 
> > fact both places at the same time and the same locations in space and time 
> > . Its a big chunk of mass to time break all at once . After using level 
> > five for a while you'll be chiseling away at the chuck of mass between 
> > native state and present time . One day you'll do it and time break the 
> > whole onion and restore full ability and native state. I'm getting close.
> > 
> > It's, see the trap, and then, walk out of the trap. Level five is complete 
> > with full ability restored . 
> > It can be considered clearly when one gets into level five a ways and gets 
> > closer to the top of level five . It may seem contradicting to you but it 
> > doesn't to me .
> > 
> > I'm just writing all of this for my own benefit but others may find it 
> > interesting as well.
> > 
> > Its sort of a blog i guess.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > *************
> > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> > > ************
> > > Slim wrote:
> > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe too 
> > > > . Out of every thing .
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I agree. As long as one occupies a viewpoint, one can be exterior to 
> > > practically anything.
> > > 
> > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, you'll 
> > > > also have full ability as long as you are there and should use it to 
> > > > resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center outwards. 
> > > > You'll be in present time at the center of the onion and the outer edge 
> > > > of the onion. 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > No invalidation intended here, but from my mocked-up point of view the 
> > > above statement is a contradicting one. If "you get to the center of the 
> > > onion where you have no case" it would mean that you have no case. If you 
> > > have no case, than there is nothing to resolve and nothing to time break.
> > > 
> > > No case means no emotions, no thoughts, no sensations, no considerations, 
> > > no charge, no timetrack, no identity and no viewpoint. 
> > > 
> > > Without a viewpoint, there is no point from which one can time break 
> > > anything.
> > > 
> > > sincerely,
> > > 
> > > Carlos
> > > 
> > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:29:01 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization
> > > > 
> > > > *************
> > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> > > > ************
> > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe too 
> > > > . Out of every thing .
> > > > 
> > > > Seems like the further back on the track ( deeper in the onion ) the 
> > > > less conflicting goals there are . Once one gets to the center of the 
> > > > onion in present time ? Thats it . From there one can go forward on the 
> > > > track while in pt and time break the future which is really the past so 
> > > > to speak, and resolve all conflicting goals gaining power of postulate 
> > > > and ability as you go forward from the inside out .
> > > > 
> > > > Going from present time backwards is good and that's really the only 
> > > > way you can get to the beginning with TROM. You will eventually get to 
> > > > the point of when you had no case in present time but get your case 
> > > > back, as there are still conflicting goals, as you move back to the 
> > > > outer onion. Then its just a matter of going back to the center of the 
> > > > onion each session and with a few more sessions, resolve your whole 
> > > > case with full , native state ability permanently L ,,,;emmemvh. 
> > > > restored for a while as nothing is permanent with, total freedom of 
> > > > choice. 
> > > > 
> > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, you'll 
> > > > also have full ability as long as you are there and should use it to 
> > > > resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center outwards. 
> > > > You'll be in present time at the center of the onion and the outer edge 
> > > > of the onion. 
> > > > 
> > > > Most of the ability loss in terms of conflicting goals, seems to be at 
> > > > the outer part of the onion.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > *************
> > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> > > > > ************
> > > > > Hi Xriz,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Once you've done level 1,2,3 and 4 correctly and get to level 5, you 
> > > > > will be able to make exteriorisation a stable ability.
> > > > > 
> > > > > At level 5 you will AS-IS every postulate and counter-postulate with 
> > > > > regards to exteriorisation. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just be persistent and have fun while tromming,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Carlos
> > > > > 
> > > > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 00:47:30 +0200
> > > > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > *************
> > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
> > > > > > ************
> > > > > > I experience it with the same problems as you do.
> > > > > > I guess it has something to do with the actual creation of space. 
> > > > > > Not so 
> > > > > > much the awareness of existing MEST space, but the current creation 
> > > > > > of own 
> > > > > > space.
> > > > > > I also welcome any suggestions how to help exteriorisation become a 
> > > > > > stable 
> > > > > > ability.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > xriz
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Am 04.08.2010, 00:21 Uhr, schrieb Pete McLaughlin 
> > > > > > <[email protected]>:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > After reading Dennis’s experiences on being exteriorized by LRH 
> > > > > > > auditing 
> > > > > > > several years ago I began trying to go exterior myself.
> > > > > > > I found that I am holding so tight to my body that I am not 
> > > > > > > willing 
> > > > > > > while awake to move my point of view outside my body.
> > > > > > > My early ideas on exteriorizing were that it must mean that when 
> > > > > > > I am 
> > > > > > > obsessing over some upset in my life and tossing back and forth 
> > > > > > > what had 
> > > > > > > happened and what I should have done I was interiorized as in 
> > > > > > > looking 
> > > > > > > in. When I walk in the park and smell the roses I am exteriorized 
> > > > > > > as I 
> > > > > > > am looking out. I now think this is incorrect.
> > > > > > > When I first started running level 4 I hit on a classic Dianetic 
> > > > > > > engram 
> > > > > > > from my childhood that contained my getting hit in the head which 
> > > > > > > hurt 
> > > > > > > like hell while a neighbor girl said “Leave me Alone”.
> > > > > > > As I time broke this incident I felt terrific enthusiasm and went 
> > > > > > > exterior in that incident and in my whole childhood. I can still 
> > > > > > > go to 
> > > > > > > the homes and streets I lived and played in at that time and see 
> > > > > > > them 
> > > > > > > vividly as recalls. The area had been blocked by the engram so 
> > > > > > > this was 
> > > > > > > an ability regained.
> > > > > > > While this win was nice it did not give me the ability to go 
> > > > > > > exterior 
> > > > > > > now. For instance, if I want to look at the back door of my home 
> > > > > > > I can 
> > > > > > > call up a picture of it that feels like a picture of the last 
> > > > > > > time I 
> > > > > > > looked at the door but not look at it in the here and now.
> > > > > > > A few days ago I was waking up in the morning while having a 
> > > > > > > vivid dream 
> > > > > > > in full Technicolor. I watched this scenery fade from vivid while 
> > > > > > > I was 
> > > > > > > asleep and not noticing my body to a recall while I began to 
> > > > > > > notice my 
> > > > > > > body.
> > > > > > > Apparently I have a compulsion to use my bodies eyes to see. The 
> > > > > > > compulsion is so strong that recalls or direct thetan viewing of 
> > > > > > > the 
> > > > > > > world fades out when I realize I have a body and I try to do all 
> > > > > > > my 
> > > > > > > seeing with the bodies eyes.
> > > > > > > Have any of you noticed this mechanism?
> > > > > > > Keep on TROMing
> > > > > > > Pete
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: 
> > > > > > http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Trom mailing list
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