************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************
Hi Slim,
You are right. You are in the body, out of the body, everywhere and nowhere. I consider this viewpoint thing to be of vital importance. Dropping my own viewpoint was one of the hardest thing for me to do. Only after I did this, did I realize that if I had not let go of my viewpoint and everything that was attached with it (thoughts, sensations, emotions, identity, considerations, postulates etc.) I could have been in session forever and never fully make it. A viewpoint is perfectly able to mock-up infinite charge and run this charge infinitely. That is the potential problem of a viewpoint. You have your viewpoint, but at the same time you are also all other viewpoints. When you have handled enough charge from your viewpoint, you will eventually experience the charge from all other viewpoints. There are an infinite number of viewpoints, thus there is an infinite amount of charge which can be run. This is what is happening in the Church of Scientolgy with OT7. These scientologist are mocking-up infinite charge and running it infinitely and getting nowhere. sincerely, Carlos > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:07:39 -0700 > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > You are where ever you consider yourself to be , in or out of a body or > neither in nor out of a body . Total freedom of choice is just that. > > Not just the body is in me. Anything that was ever created ever in all the > universes is in me. If i considerate that way . Its my choice . > > > > On Aug 6, 2010, at 12:04 PM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > Slim wrote: > > > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can > > > one be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in > > > the past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a > > > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " > > > but with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full > > > native state abilities restored. > > > > > > > Thank you for your response. To me personally, it's not difficult to > > understand at all. It's actually very easy. I can be in the past, present > > time and the future at the same time. > > > > > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total freedom > > > of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice that you > > > have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have described > > > right now but i still have a case. > > > > > > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean > > > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . > > > What about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have > > > viewpoint, have sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you > > > have described is a dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher > > > ability , no freer state of being than total freedom of choice . To have > > > or not have. > > > > > > > This is a matter of viewpoint. I like your viewpoint and I like what your > > posting here, but it still your viewpoint. You are right from your point of > > view, just as I am right from my point of view. There is no absolute > > rightness or absolute wrongness, just subjective rightness and subjective > > wrongness. This too is a matter of viewpoint. > > > > I will clarify my definition of no-case a little bit more. When I look at > > Scientologist (especially in the CoS), I see beings who want to be some > > kind of super OT spiritual being. A spiritual being is somethingness and it > > belongs to the 7th dynamic. Even if scientologists become a > > super-powered-somethingness, it's still a somethingness. These > > scientologist have a false end goal, namely the goal to become something. I > > would not want you are anyone else to fall for this trap. > > > > You are not something. You are the infinite nothingness which is Dynamic 8. > > Wanting to be something is the reason for the downfall of your abilities. > > Remember in the beginning there was the decision to be. To be what exactly? > > To be something. Being something is way better than being nothing. Can you > > imagine being nothing. Most beings can not, because it's too heavily > > charged. Try imagining being nothing and experiencing infinite loneliness. > > I can tell you from my own experience that this charge is almost unbearable. > > > > All creations are the result of the almost infinite resistance to being > > NOTHING. Infinite nothingness (dynamic 8) is not consciousness. > > Infinite nothingness is POTENTIAL consciousness. It has the ability to wake > > up. Once the infinite nothingness wakes up it has transformed itself from > > potential consciouness to consciousness. Thus a viewpoint is born. This > > viewpoint is not dynamic 8, it's dynamic 7 and it's a limitation from what > > you really are. > > > > As long as your talking about a viewpoint you are at least talking about > > dynamic 7. From my mocked-up point of view, you will eventually have to > > fully as-is your current viewpoint, drop it entirely, be out of all games > > and than come back with full power. You can than pretend to be a 7th > > dynamic creation while fully knowing that you are the 8th dynamic which is > > infinite nothingness. > > > > Why would one want to limit oneself to just one viewpoint, if you can be > > all viewpoints in existence. You are everything and nothing at the same > > time. > > > > I really do understand your viewpoint, because I am you. I have tried to > > reach the ulitimate goal, while holding on to my own viewpoint and it just > > did not happen, beacuase it can not happen. As long as you hold on to a > > viewpoint, you will be limited to the limitations of that viewpoint. This > > situation will only be handled in the final instance when one is willing to > > drop one's own viepoint and become the infinite nothingness which is what > > you really are. > > > > Happy tromming, > > > > Carlos > > > > P.s.: By the way YOU are not in the body. The body is in YOU. Only a 7th > > dynamic viewpoint, with the awareness of being a spiritual being, considers > > itself to be IN the body. > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:16:19 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > > > ************* > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > ************ > > > > > > > > > It's difficult to understand, i know. Its the fifth dimension . How can > > > one be in the past and the present at the same time ? By being in the in > > > the past and present at the same time . Its a very large existence as a > > > spiritual being . The firth dimension is walking around "out of body " > > > but with a case. The fifth is similar in many ways, but no case and full > > > native state abilities restored. > > > > > > Until you get " there " you wont have the ability to mock it up. It's too > > > occluded. Once you are even able to mock it up you will almost be done > > > with level five. > > > > > > No case doesn't mean what you think in my opinion. It means total freedom > > > of choice , native state as a spiritual being who has the choice that you > > > have defined as no case. I can have all the things you have described > > > right now but i still have a case. > > > > > > Native state is total ability to do anything create anything and i mean > > > anything , not just be nothing like you have described . That's easy . > > > What about the positive side of the goals ? have identity , have > > > viewpoint, have sensations, have considerations , have charge. What you > > > have described is a dead being and are non life goals. There is no higher > > > ability , no freer state of being than total freedom of choice . To have > > > or not have. > > > > > > When we know a past scene, we are there in the past scene and we bring it > > > to the present time where we time break it . As a spiritual being , when > > > i go , literally go to the space and time i had native state , i will > > > have native state ability. Then it's a matter of being " there " and > > > returning to present time at the same time . It time breaks and i will > > > have my full native state ability in present time again . A being can > > > only be in one place at a time. When you view a past scene you are > > > viewing the past , you are there and you have the ability you had while > > > you are there. When you view then and now simultaneously, you time break > > > it , you regain that ability in the now. > > > > > > When you view the center of the onion or native state and completely > > > leave present time to be there, you will have your native state ability > > > restored at the time you had it , but when you come back to present time > > > without time breaking it you will lose the ability . If you time break > > > the center of the onion from the center of the onion, while in present > > > time you are in fact both places at the same time and the same locations > > > in space and time . Its a big chunk of mass to time break all at once . > > > After using level five for a while you'll be chiseling away at the chuck > > > of mass between native state and present time . One day you'll do it and > > > time break the whole onion and restore full ability and native state. I'm > > > getting close. > > > > > > It's, see the trap, and then, walk out of the trap. Level five is > > > complete with full ability restored . > > > It can be considered clearly when one gets into level five a ways and > > > gets closer to the top of level five . It may seem contradicting to you > > > but it doesn't to me . > > > > > > I'm just writing all of this for my own benefit but others may find it > > > interesting as well. > > > > > > Its sort of a blog i guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Carlos Dos Santos <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ************* > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > ************ > > > > Slim wrote: > > > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe > > > > > too . Out of every thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. As long as one occupies a viewpoint, one can be exterior to > > > > practically anything. > > > > > > > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, > > > > > you'll also have full ability as long as you are there and should use > > > > > it to resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center > > > > > outwards. You'll be in present time at the center of the onion and > > > > > the outer edge of the onion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No invalidation intended here, but from my mocked-up point of view the > > > > above statement is a contradicting one. If "you get to the center of > > > > the onion where you have no case" it would mean that you have no case. > > > > If you have no case, than there is nothing to resolve and nothing to > > > > time break. > > > > > > > > No case means no emotions, no thoughts, no sensations, no > > > > considerations, no charge, no timetrack, no identity and no viewpoint. > > > > > > > > Without a viewpoint, there is no point from which one can time break > > > > anything. > > > > > > > > sincerely, > > > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:29:01 -0700 > > > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > > ************ > > > > > There're different degrees of out of body . There's out of universe > > > > > too . Out of every thing . > > > > > > > > > > Seems like the further back on the track ( deeper in the onion ) the > > > > > less conflicting goals there are . Once one gets to the center of the > > > > > onion in present time ? Thats it . From there one can go forward on > > > > > the track while in pt and time break the future which is really the > > > > > past so to speak, and resolve all conflicting goals gaining power of > > > > > postulate and ability as you go forward from the inside out . > > > > > > > > > > Going from present time backwards is good and that's really the only > > > > > way you can get to the beginning with TROM. You will eventually get > > > > > to the point of when you had no case in present time but get your > > > > > case back, as there are still conflicting goals, as you move back to > > > > > the outer onion. Then its just a matter of going back to the center > > > > > of the onion each session and with a few more sessions, resolve your > > > > > whole case with full , native state ability permanently L > > > > > ,,,;emmemvh. restored for a while as nothing is permanent with, total > > > > > freedom of choice. > > > > > > > > > > When you get to the center of the onion where you have no case, > > > > > you'll also have full ability as long as you are there and should use > > > > > it to resolve ( time break ) conflicting goals from the center > > > > > outwards. You'll be in present time at the center of the onion and > > > > > the outer edge of the onion. > > > > > > > > > > Most of the ability loss in terms of conflicting goals, seems to be > > > > > at the outer part of the onion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 5:24 AM, Carlos Dos Santos > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > > > ************ > > > > > > Hi Xriz, > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you've done level 1,2,3 and 4 correctly and get to level 5, > > > > > > you will be able to make exteriorisation a stable ability. > > > > > > > > > > > > At level 5 you will AS-IS every postulate and counter-postulate > > > > > > with regards to exteriorisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just be persistent and have fun while tromming, > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlos > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 00:47:30 +0200 > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TROM1] observations on Exteriorization > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************* > > > > > > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > > > > > > ************ > > > > > > > I experience it with the same problems as you do. > > > > > > > I guess it has something to do with the actual creation of space. > > > > > > > Not so > > > > > > > much the awareness of existing MEST space, but the current > > > > > > > creation of own > > > > > > > space. > > > > > > > I also welcome any suggestions how to help exteriorisation become > > > > > > > a stable > > > > > > > ability. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xriz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 04.08.2010, 00:21 Uhr, schrieb Pete McLaughlin > > > > > > > <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After reading Dennis’s experiences on being exteriorized by LRH > > > > > > > > auditing > > > > > > > > several years ago I began trying to go exterior myself. > > > > > > > > I found that I am holding so tight to my body that I am not > > > > > > > > willing > > > > > > > > while awake to move my point of view outside my body. > > > > > > > > My early ideas on exteriorizing were that it must mean that > > > > > > > > when I am > > > > > > > > obsessing over some upset in my life and tossing back and forth > > > > > > > > what had > > > > > > > > happened and what I should have done I was interiorized as in > > > > > > > > looking > > > > > > > > in. When I walk in the park and smell the roses I am > > > > > > > > exteriorized as I > > > > > > > > am looking out. I now think this is incorrect. > > > > > > > > When I first started running level 4 I hit on a classic > > > > > > > > Dianetic engram > > > > > > > > from my childhood that contained my getting hit in the head > > > > > > > > which hurt > > > > > > > > like hell while a neighbor girl said “Leave me Alone”. > > > > > > > > As I time broke this incident I felt terrific enthusiasm and > > > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > exterior in that incident and in my whole childhood. I can > > > > > > > > still go to > > > > > > > > the homes and streets I lived and played in at that time and > > > > > > > > see them > > > > > > > > vividly as recalls. The area had been blocked by the engram so > > > > > > > > this was > > > > > > > > an ability regained. > > > > > > > > While this win was nice it did not give me the ability to go > > > > > > > > exterior > > > > > > > > now. For instance, if I want to look at the back door of my > > > > > > > > home I can > > > > > > > > call up a picture of it that feels like a picture of the last > > > > > > > > time I > > > > > > > > looked at the door but not look at it in the here and now. > > > > > > > > A few days ago I was waking up in the morning while having a > > > > > > > > vivid dream > > > > > > > > in full Technicolor. I watched this scenery fade from vivid > > > > > > > > while I was > > > > > > > > asleep and not noticing my body to a recall while I began to > > > > > > > > notice my > > > > > > > > body. > > > > > > > > Apparently I have a compulsion to use my bodies eyes to see. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > compulsion is so strong that recalls or direct thetan viewing > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > world fades out when I realize I have a body and I try to do > > > > > > > > all my > > > > > > > > seeing with the bodies eyes. > > > > > > > > Have any of you noticed this mechanism? > > > > > > > > Keep on TROMing > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: > > > > > > > http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Trom mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Trom mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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