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Hi Pete,
I think what you are doing and have done to preserve the TROM materials
including Dennis's tapes on Scientology history is great, and I am not
attempting to fault you in any way. (Though I might suggest you
consider posting the TROM document on www.scribd.com which is free and
would distribute it freely to a new and larger audience.)
I have also taken your advice and made copies of the materials.
I certainly have no interest at this time of starting a business or (God
forbid) a church with a profit motive. (Frankly, I don't believe in
churches with profit motives. It's a blatant conflict of interest.) My
time is tied up otherwise at present and I am not in a place where I
seek a new career along such lines.
I agree with you that human ambition and greed can and has ruined many
endeavours, especially when the proper checks and balances are not put
in place - including checks on the leadership. The more concentrated
power becomes, the more it attracts greedy, ambitious, and unscrupulous
people (and sociopaths). If a leader is too trusted and revered, it
becomes easy for him to give into temptation to abuse his power. There
must be mechanisms in place to keep leaders in check and turf them out
if necessary, or abandon them. It is also important to nurture rational
and talented people to take on leadership roles. No good organization
is run by one "genius" with everyone else afraid to think for
themselves. It sounds like you have had your fill of such
organizations, so I can understand why you don't want to create
another. (Would Dennis call that postulate failure?)
When I suggested social support, I did not mean a hierarchical
profit-driven organization. I would also suggest that the problem you
witnessed - usable tech being rewritten and becoming unworkable - would
not have occurred in a healthy organization where people would feel free
to say, "Hey, that new version doesn't work as well, I'm going back to
the old version," and everyone else would be free to follow suit. Of
course, people should also be free to say, "Hey, this new version does
work better," or "hey, this other guy's tech works better than our
leader's," if that is the truth. That's why people can respect Isaac
Newton, Sigmund Freud, and Aristotle without agreeing with everything
they said, and its what's wrong with religions that adhere to scripture
even when it's clearly outdated.
You see, I do not believe all organizations are necessarily corrupt.
The world is full of good people. For example, there are plenty of
schools of psychotherapy that developed over the past 100 years without
becoming abusive in the way Scientology has. The ones with staying
power have claims that are are realistic and backed by proof that they
really help people. The practitioners are mostly accredited and
licensed by professional bodies that enforce ethics without becoming
abusive. They evolve as scientific research evolves. They are allies
of the medical profession and social workers. In some cases, your
health insurance (government or private) will pay for your therapy. Now
that is a successful model.
It seems to me that one way to popularize Trom might be to attract the
interest of such professionals. Perhaps researchers into psychology
would find it interesting. Papers published in academic journals,
successful trials, would give Trom credibility. Psychotherapists who
find it valuable might make presentations at conferences, etc. If Trom
has real benefits, why should it not gain at least the same credibility
as, for instance, Gestalt therapy or the Sedona method? Like I said,
there are already psychotherapists using methods similar to the first
two levels of Trom to help people recover from trauma. Maybe they would
like to know about the rest?
On the other hand, self-help books written for laymen can also help
preserve and spread an approach. But they have to be realistic and
honest. They must be written so that anyone can see the benefits, and
so justify the effort. And they must be accessible.
Regards,
Glen
On 4/5/2011 4:25 PM, Pete McLaughlin wrote:
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HI Glen
You are stating some good points but they are contrary to the
development of TROM that i am trying to do with the
trom'@lists.newciv.org list and with tromhelp.com
trom'@lists.newciv.org mailing list is a mutual support email list
that belongs to all of us where we can share ideas and experiences
with TROM. it is not commercial i.e. not for profit and does not have
a budget to advertise which is implicit in the idea you state for
"trom to get somewhere"
tromhelp.com is solely owned by me and my intent for it is to keep the
TROM materials available to everyone for free. i do not spend money
promoting it and do not have a profit motivation to do any promoting.
my interest in TROM is to get all the materials for myself so i can
apply them to my case and make them available to everyone else to do
the same.
if you want to start up a business or church or whatever of TROM and
with a profit motive and budget to promote the practice of TROM you
can as there is no one to stop you. you can also rewrite the
materials and publish them with a copyright so you can sell the tech
just as other therapies and churches do.
of course you will then have all the third dynamic problems that
businesses and churches have of supressing some of the tech because it
is controversial i.e. the tape on sex.or the original text as it might
hurt sales of your updated version or not be profitable so you just
stop making it available. and then you will need a advertising
department to promote all the benefits people will get from your
material and a legal department to defend you when you get sued by
those who claim the got not benefits etc. etc. etc.
i have considered all of these ways to make a mental therapy
available. i have studied and observed the travails of the Christian
Churches where they deleted the original books written at the time
Christ lived because they did not support the idea of a strong central
controlled church and government. i witnessed the Church of
Scientology's rewriting of the LRH works by scribes who were so far
short of the Genius of LRH that they could not recognize when they
were turning workable tech into pointless exercises. i have seen
corporations turn from producing useful produects to profit motivated
monopolies using political or legal power to extort money from their
"customers" And i have seen governments start out as "of the people,
by the people, for the people" to havens for the criminal class where
they can steal the wealth of a nation with impunity.
i strongly feel that the only way for TROM to persist for many years
as a viable and available self help system is for the material to
remain available free and each individual to have the original text
and audio to study for their own enlightenment.
that is why it is the way it is now and why i encourage everyone to
make copies of the material and to put up thier own TROM site with all
the text and audio available exactly as it is.
if you want to help please make text transcripts of the audio files
that lack a transcript as this will be useful.
if you have a better idea on how TROM should be promoted then go for
it. For the reasons stated above i am not interested in making any
changes.
Sincerely,
Pete
--- On *Tue, 4/5/11, Glen Strathy /<[email protected]>/* wrote:
From: Glen Strathy <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'
To: "The Resolution of Mind list" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 7:08 AM
*************
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Hello,
I am new to Trom and this list, but I'd like to make a suggestion.
If Trom is to ever take off, it needs to be presented in a much more
accessible form, something the average person will get excited about.
That might mean creating a popular self-help book, like The Power
of Now.
Such a book should...
1. Include examples that explain the terminology. For instance,
let's
have some examples of what "to make known" means, because the
postulates
are just gobbledygook to the average person.
2. Explain Trom in language everyone can understand and relate to.
Sure, Trom may seem simple to someone who has spent many years
studying
the philosophy of Scientology and has studied Trom in-depth. You
could
make the same argument about Taoism or Zen. But it's not simple
at all
to an outsider.
3. State the real, tangible benefits upfront, so people know why
they
should spent hundreds of hours on this activity. That doesn't mean
exaggerating or misrepresenting benefits the way Scientology does,
but
it might mean using case studies or testimonials. It also means
stating
them in a believable way - not by claiming it will give you
godlike powers.
4. You might consider liaising with experts in psychology and mental
health who can give perspectives on why Trom works that are in
line with
what science knows about the mind. (Some forms of therapy are doing
work similar to Trom already.) People trust science. You want
science
on your side.
5. Do something about Dennis's recommendation that some people
should go
to a Scientology org and have the CCHs run. No informed person today
would set foot in a Scientology org. There needs to be an
alternative.
6. Remember too that very few people can do this sort of work on
their
own without social support. Workshops, courses, that bring people
together would help a lot.
Let's also remember that "Sources" are not sacred. Dennis isn't god
anymore than LRH was. Disciplines (e.g. Tai Chi, Pilates,
psychotherapy, meditation) evolve over time because not everyone is
going to copy the source exactly - nor should they. There is no
absolute right and wrong way to use these methods. Everyone must
find
their own way that works for them. Many people will find better
ways of
doing things than what they are taught. It is only through a
variety of
approaches and perspectives and a growing body of evidence that any
discipline or science evolves. Hubbard got all his followers
paranoid
about doing anything other than what he said because it was his
way of
maintaining control. He feared people's creativity, so he made them
afraid terrible things would happen if they deviated at all. Of
course
some techniques could be harmful, but in an open, non-paranoid
environment those become obvious quickly and can be dropped.
I apologize if I sound critical. But so many people on this list
feel
Trom has much to offer the world, so you need to get it into the
world
to confirm what it can do for people. If Trom is so good, why
shouldn't
it get on a show like Oprah? But I doubt it will if it remains so
inaccessible.
Glen
On 4/4/2011 11:02 PM, Happy Harry wrote:
> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
> ************
> Hi Aarre,
>
> (by the way, is that a Finnish name?)
>
> Thank you for your kind words.
>
> I'm not the guardian of the TROM tech. I followed the discussion
and merely decided to offer my opinion. I feel if we all exercised
a healthy level of caution and restraint in these matters there
would be never be a need for any guardian, and there would be no
risk of the original manual being altered over time and
potentially becoming lost (in its original form).
>
> Earlier today you suggested to change the sequence of chapters
and add material between chapters to prevent out-gradients. I know
you did so with good intentions. But, again, this would be
altering the original manual.
>
> Wanting to help others better understand TROM is an honourable
and noble impulse. Personally, I find nothing wrong with creating
supplements or study aids. But I think these should not be put
'in' the original manual. Perhaps they would be better suited in a
separate section of the tromhelp site and each aid or supplement
labelled as such (so whoever reads it knows it's not part of the
original manual) and always referring the person back to original
manual.
>
> In the end, TROM is not terribly complicated and is certainly
not beyond the grasp of any reasonably intelligent person,
regardless of their philosophical background. Besides, one can
always do some follow-up research and look up terms they don't
understand. Have faith in people's ability - especially those that
are 'seekers'. And if they don't make it for some reason,
well...Slim's post entitled 'The Pill' put it nicely, and it is a
very valid viewpoint.
>
> I mean, take the Qur'an, for example: many, many muslims learn
Arabic just so they can read it in the original Arabic. Think of
the effort that takes. That is far, far harder than an absolute
layman (without any Scientology background) studying TROM. The
same applies to Jews studying the Torah in ancient Hebrew. I'm not
suggesting TROM is comparable to these, but, as a mere example,
you get the idea.
>
> On a different note, and I realise this is in contrast to what
Denis wrote about planetary clearing with TROM, I don't think
everyone can do it - do TROM. Take Scientology, for example:
there's this huge organisational structure aimed at getting people
up the bridge, with staff that help you and push you to do your
next step, with books and courses, from the most basic to the most
advanced, with a gradient that's supposed to make it a smooth and
safe ride. And yet few of those who walk into a church become
> Scientologists. And very few Scientologists make it to clear,
and even fewer to the OT levels - in spite of the support
structure. Well, there is no support structure in TROM; you're
supposed to go it alone (though there is the TROM list). So that
gives you an idea on how many people will do TROM. Dumbing it
down, simplifying the manual won't change that (it didn't change
it for Scientology, with all its basic courses and services). Be
grateful that you found TROM. Those th
> at seek will always find.
>
> Phew, that was quite lengthy. I'm sorry, man. I am, after all,
quite the chatterbox.
>
> Take care,
>
> Harry
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
</mc/[email protected]>
>> Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:17:27 -0400
>> To: [email protected] </mc/[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] needed TROM materials without 'Scientologese'
>>
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