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Hi Jesus The words used to describe the postulates are not the postulates. The words are only labels that we use so we can communicate about the postulates.
In reading over your statements I see that you are saying the to be known and to know postulates are all about creating stuff as in inanimate objects. You end with a confusion on whether to know is actually the creative postulate. Dennis did spend a lot of time talking about creating effects in the TROM manual and this is misleading. The cognition I had that started my effort to change the label for the basic goals package to "to be known" was that creating effects is only being done so that I can get others to know that I am here. This is the most important thing to learn from the level 5 of TROM. I CREATE EFFECTS SO OTHERS WILL NOTICE I AM HERE. I want to be known and I want others to know me. Creating stuff doesn't matter except as it serves this purpose. So "to be known" means I want to be known by others. This is the most important goal and why it is the purpose behind all the other goals a person has. Does this make it clear why I want to change the label for the basic goals package to "to be known" and do you now agree the change would be helpful? Sincerely Pete Sent from my iPad > On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:33 AM, Jesus Garcia <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hello Peter. > > I am answering your call to give feedback on the clearing up of the concept > "To Be Known". > > I believe It is of the utmost importance to understand the goal package "To > know"; it is not coincidence that it is the core of TROM. This understanding > is also the end result of the practice of TROM. I also found it difficult to > understand; steep gradient indeed. > > > > I will try to explain why I think your addition to the book is unnecessary > and also resolve the misunderstanding, at least to the point that I found > allowed me to work with TROM and get results. I will try to do this within > the confines of the TROM manual. If this is of any use to you or any other > TROM colleague, I will be quite content. > > > > You have written the following heading: What is "Must be known?" and then go > and define the "to be known " postulate. I have not been able to find the "to > be known" postulate in the manual, so at this moment I am not going to work > with this specific set of words, as I would like to keep to the manual as > strictly as I can. > > > > From the first addendum of the manual: > > > > - "BE KNOWN > > This is the creative postulate; the postulate that brings the effect into > existence. His PD postulate that goes with it at the other end of the > communication line is ‘know’. This twin postulate structure is still present > even if the effect is only being created for the benefit of the creator; in > this case he merely responds to his own PD postulate and knows his own > creation." > > From the section "Theory": > > > > - "Life is a spiritual quality. It has four basic abilities: > > 1. It can bring things into existence." > > > > - "1. The purpose of bringing an effect into existence is to make it known." > > > > " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: > > 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that > it shall be known. > > 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made > known." > > > > From the second addendum: > > > > - "Purpose, Intention, Goal and Postulate can be regarded as synonyms. A game > is a contest in conviction." > > > > Ok then! > > What I understand here is that "BE KNOWN" is the creative postulate, the > postulate that brings the effect into existence, same as "TO MAKE IT KNOWN". > I have used "TO CREATE" in level 4 and run very well with it. > > I believe "BE KNOWN" here has a specialized definition whereas "shall be > known" in the twin postulate structure above is the Passive Form of the > Simple Future of the verb to know. > > I would like to keep it simple so I will not engage in further explanations. > See if it makes sense. > > > > From the section "THEORY": > > > > - " All games contain conviction. Conviction, by definition, is an > enforcement of knowingness. Enforcement of knowingness is called importance. > Importance is the basis of all significance. Essentially, importance is a > "must". > > In games of play our four basic abilities become: > > SD: Must be known PD: Must Know" > > > > So we have games, we have conviction, enforcement, importance and MUST. Then > "Must be known" is here as the specialized definition, meaning "must make > known" and "must bring into existence". It fits all right, as the > twin-complementary postulate is "Must know". > > Again, see if it makes sense; this is just a theory. > > This is all I have to say at this point of the definition of "must be known". > > > > I would like now to get into the "To know" package. > > From first addendum: > > > > - " KNOW > > This is the postulate that permits the being to know the effect. His matching > PD postulate at the other end of the comm line is ‘Be Known’ - so the effect > is there for him to know. > > Cause is the action of bringing an effect into existence, taking an effect > out of existence, knowing, or not-knowing. That which is brought into > existence, taken out of existence, known, or not-known is called an effect. > > When two or more beings adopt complementary postulates regarding a creation > they share that creation, which is now a co-creation. They are said to be in > agreement regarding that creation. Thus, agreement is a shared creation. > > Beings, by means of their willingness to create complementary postulates > (affinity) and by actually creating complementary postulates (communication), > achieve co-creation (reality). Thus understanding is achieved between beings." > > Here again, in the first paragraph, ´be known´ is a specialized definition. > "KNOW" is the perception of the effect made known at the other end of the > comm line. It is the duplication, the acknowledgment of having seen the > creation (effect). > > See above " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate > structure:" > > > > Of the four it is only the first and the third ones which bring into > existence communication. In the first the action of bringing an effect into > existence (with its postulate) and the action of knowing the effect (with its > postulate), both of them self-determined, are absolutely necessary to have > communication, therefore reality; in other words, co-creation. > > > > In the third we take the point of view of the PD postulate(although the > actions are the same) and if we take notice of the tense of the verbs we > could understand that first there is the postulate "to know" and then the > postulate that it shall be "made known". > > > > May be we believe creation is the first action, prior to anything and of > course, prior to the perception of that being created. But what if "TO KNOW" > were the postulate of creation? > > > > There is an intriguing sentence in the second addendum: > > "The main list of life goals, headed by ‘To Know’ and continuing with ‘To > Create’ etc., form a scale of increasing condensation, or solidity." > > > > It may very well be that our confusion with the "TO KNOW" package means we > still have some more work ahead of us. > > > > In the second addendum Dennis says: > > " Knowing > > If one were to inquire into the nature of the quality or ability that is > closest to life itself one would eventually arrive at the subject of knowing. > Life can know. All else is the subject of methods or systems of knowing. > > The basic law, or agreement, of this universe is that one will only know that > which is brought into existence to be known. Thus, this universe sets a > limitation upon knowing as only being possible for the class of things which > are brought into existence to be known. > > This law is peculiar to this universe. A being can only operate, i.e. play > games within this universe while in agreement with this law. Once he starts > to know outside of this law he is operating outside the universe. > > The action of bringing something into existence so that it can be known is > called creation. Thus, in this universe knowing is limited to those things > which have been created in the universe. > > It should never be considered that knowing is by nature limited to those > things which are created to be known. Life can know; it can know anything, > whether it has been brought into existence to be known or not. In order to > operate in this universe life considers, or agrees, that it will not-know > until something is brought into existence to be known. > > > > This limitation upon knowing is the basic law, and the only basic law, that > governs this universe. Other universes can be constructed upon other basic > laws, but they would all be some type of limitation of knowing, for while > knowing is unlimited any type of universe or game is impossible. Bear the > basic law of this universe in mind as you do the Practical Exercises, for all > the games you have ever become trapped in in this universe have been based > upon the basic law of the universe. " > > > > It seems to say that "TO KNOW" is senior and more basic than "TO BRING INTO > EXISTENCE". > > > > Definitely all seems to come down to knowing and creating. > > > > Have a nice day > > > > Jesus Garcia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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