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Hi Pete, I think to know is the basic goal of all others. In my mind to know is a self postulate and to be known is the other end of the to know postulate that's complimentary.
Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 15, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Pete Mclaughlin > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hi Jesus > The words used to describe the postulates are not the postulates. The words > are only labels that we use so we can communicate about the postulates. > > In reading over your statements I see that you are saying the to be known and > to know postulates are all about creating stuff as in inanimate objects. > You end with a confusion on whether to know is actually the creative > postulate. > > > Dennis did spend a lot of time talking about creating effects in the TROM > manual and this is misleading. > > The cognition I had that started my effort to change the label for the basic > goals package to "to be known" was that creating effects is only being done > so that I can get others to know that I am here. > > This is the most important thing to learn from the level 5 of TROM. I CREATE > EFFECTS SO OTHERS WILL NOTICE I AM HERE. > > I want to be known and I want others to know me. > > Creating stuff doesn't matter except as it serves this purpose. > > > So "to be known" means I want to be known by others. This is the most > important goal and why it is the purpose behind all the other goals a person > has. > > > Does this make it clear why I want to change the label for the basic goals > package to "to be known" and do you now agree the change would be helpful? > > Sincerely > Pete > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:33 AM, Jesus Garcia <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] >> ************ >> Hello Peter. >> >> I am answering your call to give feedback on the clearing up of the concept >> "To Be Known". >> >> I believe It is of the utmost importance to understand the goal package "To >> know"; it is not coincidence that it is the core of TROM. This understanding >> is also the end result of the practice of TROM. I also found it difficult to >> understand; steep gradient indeed. >> >> >> >> I will try to explain why I think your addition to the book is unnecessary >> and also resolve the misunderstanding, at least to the point that I found >> allowed me to work with TROM and get results. I will try to do this within >> the confines of the TROM manual. If this is of any use to you or any other >> TROM colleague, I will be quite content. >> >> >> >> You have written the following heading: What is "Must be known?" and then go >> and define the "to be known " postulate. I have not been able to find the >> "to be known" postulate in the manual, so at this moment I am not going to >> work with this specific set of words, as I would like to keep to the manual >> as strictly as I can. >> >> >> >> From the first addendum of the manual: >> >> >> >> - "BE KNOWN >> >> This is the creative postulate; the postulate that brings the effect into >> existence. His PD postulate that goes with it at the other end of the >> communication line is ‘know’. This twin postulate structure is still present >> even if the effect is only being created for the benefit of the creator; in >> this case he merely responds to his own PD postulate and knows his own >> creation." >> >> From the section "Theory": >> >> >> >> - "Life is a spiritual quality. It has four basic abilities: >> >> 1. It can bring things into existence." >> >> >> >> - "1. The purpose of bringing an effect into existence is to make it known." >> >> >> >> " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: >> >> 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that >> it shall be known. >> >> 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made >> known." >> >> >> >> From the second addendum: >> >> >> >> - "Purpose, Intention, Goal and Postulate can be regarded as synonyms. A >> game is a contest in conviction." >> >> >> >> Ok then! >> >> What I understand here is that "BE KNOWN" is the creative postulate, the >> postulate that brings the effect into existence, same as "TO MAKE IT KNOWN". >> I have used "TO CREATE" in level 4 and run very well with it. >> >> I believe "BE KNOWN" here has a specialized definition whereas "shall be >> known" in the twin postulate structure above is the Passive Form of the >> Simple Future of the verb to know. >> >> I would like to keep it simple so I will not engage in further explanations. >> See if it makes sense. >> >> >> >> From the section "THEORY": >> >> >> >> - " All games contain conviction. Conviction, by definition, is an >> enforcement of knowingness. Enforcement of knowingness is called importance. >> Importance is the basis of all significance. Essentially, importance is a >> "must". >> >> In games of play our four basic abilities become: >> >> SD: Must be known PD: Must Know" >> >> >> >> So we have games, we have conviction, enforcement, importance and MUST. Then >> "Must be known" is here as the specialized definition, meaning "must make >> known" and "must bring into existence". It fits all right, as the >> twin-complementary postulate is "Must know". >> >> Again, see if it makes sense; this is just a theory. >> >> This is all I have to say at this point of the definition of "must be known". >> >> >> >> I would like now to get into the "To know" package. >> >> From first addendum: >> >> >> >> - " KNOW >> >> This is the postulate that permits the being to know the effect. His >> matching PD postulate at the other end of the comm line is ‘Be Known’ - so >> the effect is there for him to know. >> >> Cause is the action of bringing an effect into existence, taking an effect >> out of existence, knowing, or not-knowing. That which is brought into >> existence, taken out of existence, known, or not-known is called an effect. >> >> When two or more beings adopt complementary postulates regarding a creation >> they share that creation, which is now a co-creation. They are said to be in >> agreement regarding that creation. Thus, agreement is a shared creation. >> >> Beings, by means of their willingness to create complementary postulates >> (affinity) and by actually creating complementary postulates >> (communication), achieve co-creation (reality). Thus understanding is >> achieved between beings." >> >> Here again, in the first paragraph, ´be known´ is a specialized definition. >> "KNOW" is the perception of the effect made known at the other end of the >> comm line. It is the duplication, the acknowledgment of having seen the >> creation (effect). >> >> See above " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate >> structure:" >> >> >> >> Of the four it is only the first and the third ones which bring into >> existence communication. In the first the action of bringing an effect into >> existence (with its postulate) and the action of knowing the effect (with >> its postulate), both of them self-determined, are absolutely necessary to >> have communication, therefore reality; in other words, co-creation. >> >> >> >> In the third we take the point of view of the PD postulate(although the >> actions are the same) and if we take notice of the tense of the verbs we >> could understand that first there is the postulate "to know" and then the >> postulate that it shall be "made known". >> >> >> >> May be we believe creation is the first action, prior to anything and of >> course, prior to the perception of that being created. But what if "TO KNOW" >> were the postulate of creation? >> >> >> >> There is an intriguing sentence in the second addendum: >> >> "The main list of life goals, headed by ‘To Know’ and continuing with ‘To >> Create’ etc., form a scale of increasing condensation, or solidity." >> >> >> >> It may very well be that our confusion with the "TO KNOW" package means we >> still have some more work ahead of us. >> >> >> >> In the second addendum Dennis says: >> >> " Knowing >> >> If one were to inquire into the nature of the quality or ability that is >> closest to life itself one would eventually arrive at the subject of >> knowing. Life can know. All else is the subject of methods or systems of >> knowing. >> >> The basic law, or agreement, of this universe is that one will only know >> that which is brought into existence to be known. Thus, this universe sets a >> limitation upon knowing as only being possible for the class of things which >> are brought into existence to be known. >> >> This law is peculiar to this universe. A being can only operate, i.e. play >> games within this universe while in agreement with this law. Once he starts >> to know outside of this law he is operating outside the universe. >> >> The action of bringing something into existence so that it can be known is >> called creation. Thus, in this universe knowing is limited to those things >> which have been created in the universe. >> >> It should never be considered that knowing is by nature limited to those >> things which are created to be known. Life can know; it can know anything, >> whether it has been brought into existence to be known or not. In order to >> operate in this universe life considers, or agrees, that it will not-know >> until something is brought into existence to be known. >> >> >> >> This limitation upon knowing is the basic law, and the only basic law, that >> governs this universe. Other universes can be constructed upon other basic >> laws, but they would all be some type of limitation of knowing, for while >> knowing is unlimited any type of universe or game is impossible. Bear the >> basic law of this universe in mind as you do the Practical Exercises, for >> all the games you have ever become trapped in in this universe have been >> based upon the basic law of the universe. " >> >> >> >> It seems to say that "TO KNOW" is senior and more basic than "TO BRING INTO >> EXISTENCE". >> >> >> >> Definitely all seems to come down to knowing and creating. >> >> >> >> Have a nice day >> >> >> >> Jesus Garcia >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Trom mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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