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Hi Cory What do you mean by "To know is a self postulate"?
Sincerely Pete Sent from my iPad > On Aug 15, 2014, at 10:04 AM, Cory Keeler <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hi Pete, > I think to know is the basic goal of all others. In my mind to know is a self > postulate and to be known is the other end of the to know postulate that's > complimentary. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 15, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Pete Mclaughlin >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] >> ************ >> Hi Jesus >> The words used to describe the postulates are not the postulates. The words >> are only labels that we use so we can communicate about the postulates. >> >> In reading over your statements I see that you are saying the to be known >> and to know postulates are all about creating stuff as in inanimate objects. >> You end with a confusion on whether to know is actually the creative >> postulate. >> >> >> Dennis did spend a lot of time talking about creating effects in the TROM >> manual and this is misleading. >> >> The cognition I had that started my effort to change the label for the basic >> goals package to "to be known" was that creating effects is only being done >> so that I can get others to know that I am here. >> >> This is the most important thing to learn from the level 5 of TROM. I CREATE >> EFFECTS SO OTHERS WILL NOTICE I AM HERE. >> >> I want to be known and I want others to know me. >> >> Creating stuff doesn't matter except as it serves this purpose. >> >> >> So "to be known" means I want to be known by others. This is the most >> important goal and why it is the purpose behind all the other goals a person >> has. >> >> >> Does this make it clear why I want to change the label for the basic goals >> package to "to be known" and do you now agree the change would be helpful? >> >> Sincerely >> Pete >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Aug 14, 2014, at 1:33 AM, Jesus Garcia <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] >>> ************ >>> Hello Peter. >>> >>> I am answering your call to give feedback on the clearing up of the concept >>> "To Be Known". >>> >>> I believe It is of the utmost importance to understand the goal package "To >>> know"; it is not coincidence that it is the core of TROM. This >>> understanding is also the end result of the practice of TROM. I also found >>> it difficult to understand; steep gradient indeed. >>> >>> >>> >>> I will try to explain why I think your addition to the book is unnecessary >>> and also resolve the misunderstanding, at least to the point that I found >>> allowed me to work with TROM and get results. I will try to do this within >>> the confines of the TROM manual. If this is of any use to you or any other >>> TROM colleague, I will be quite content. >>> >>> >>> >>> You have written the following heading: What is "Must be known?" and then >>> go and define the "to be known " postulate. I have not been able to find >>> the "to be known" postulate in the manual, so at this moment I am not going >>> to work with this specific set of words, as I would like to keep to the >>> manual as strictly as I can. >>> >>> >>> >>> From the first addendum of the manual: >>> >>> >>> >>> - "BE KNOWN >>> >>> This is the creative postulate; the postulate that brings the effect into >>> existence. His PD postulate that goes with it at the other end of the >>> communication line is ‘know’. This twin postulate structure is still >>> present even if the effect is only being created for the benefit of the >>> creator; in this case he merely responds to his own PD postulate and knows >>> his own creation." >>> >>> From the section "Theory": >>> >>> >>> >>> - "Life is a spiritual quality. It has four basic abilities: >>> >>> 1. It can bring things into existence." >>> >>> >>> >>> - "1. The purpose of bringing an effect into existence is to make it known." >>> >>> >>> >>> " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: >>> >>> 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that >>> it shall be known. >>> >>> 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made >>> known." >>> >>> >>> >>> From the second addendum: >>> >>> >>> >>> - "Purpose, Intention, Goal and Postulate can be regarded as synonyms. A >>> game is a contest in conviction." >>> >>> >>> >>> Ok then! >>> >>> What I understand here is that "BE KNOWN" is the creative postulate, the >>> postulate that brings the effect into existence, same as "TO MAKE IT >>> KNOWN". I have used "TO CREATE" in level 4 and run very well with it. >>> >>> I believe "BE KNOWN" here has a specialized definition whereas "shall be >>> known" in the twin postulate structure above is the Passive Form of the >>> Simple Future of the verb to know. >>> >>> I would like to keep it simple so I will not engage in further >>> explanations. See if it makes sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> From the section "THEORY": >>> >>> >>> >>> - " All games contain conviction. Conviction, by definition, is an >>> enforcement of knowingness. Enforcement of knowingness is called >>> importance. Importance is the basis of all significance. Essentially, >>> importance is a "must". >>> >>> In games of play our four basic abilities become: >>> >>> SD: Must be known PD: Must Know" >>> >>> >>> >>> So we have games, we have conviction, enforcement, importance and MUST. >>> Then "Must be known" is here as the specialized definition, meaning "must >>> make known" and "must bring into existence". It fits all right, as the >>> twin-complementary postulate is "Must know". >>> >>> Again, see if it makes sense; this is just a theory. >>> >>> This is all I have to say at this point of the definition of "must be >>> known". >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like now to get into the "To know" package. >>> >>> From first addendum: >>> >>> >>> >>> - " KNOW >>> >>> This is the postulate that permits the being to know the effect. His >>> matching PD postulate at the other end of the comm line is ‘Be Known’ - so >>> the effect is there for him to know. >>> >>> Cause is the action of bringing an effect into existence, taking an effect >>> out of existence, knowing, or not-knowing. That which is brought into >>> existence, taken out of existence, known, or not-known is called an effect. >>> >>> When two or more beings adopt complementary postulates regarding a creation >>> they share that creation, which is now a co-creation. They are said to be >>> in agreement regarding that creation. Thus, agreement is a shared creation. >>> >>> Beings, by means of their willingness to create complementary postulates >>> (affinity) and by actually creating complementary postulates >>> (communication), achieve co-creation (reality). Thus understanding is >>> achieved between beings." >>> >>> Here again, in the first paragraph, ´be known´ is a specialized definition. >>> "KNOW" is the perception of the effect made known at the other end of the >>> comm line. It is the duplication, the acknowledgment of having seen the >>> creation (effect). >>> >>> See above " The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate >>> structure:" >>> >>> >>> >>> Of the four it is only the first and the third ones which bring into >>> existence communication. In the first the action of bringing an effect into >>> existence (with its postulate) and the action of knowing the effect (with >>> its postulate), both of them self-determined, are absolutely necessary to >>> have communication, therefore reality; in other words, co-creation. >>> >>> >>> >>> In the third we take the point of view of the PD postulate(although the >>> actions are the same) and if we take notice of the tense of the verbs we >>> could understand that first there is the postulate "to know" and then the >>> postulate that it shall be "made known". >>> >>> >>> >>> May be we believe creation is the first action, prior to anything and of >>> course, prior to the perception of that being created. But what if "TO >>> KNOW" were the postulate of creation? >>> >>> >>> >>> There is an intriguing sentence in the second addendum: >>> >>> "The main list of life goals, headed by ‘To Know’ and continuing with ‘To >>> Create’ etc., form a scale of increasing condensation, or solidity." >>> >>> >>> >>> It may very well be that our confusion with the "TO KNOW" package means we >>> still have some more work ahead of us. >>> >>> >>> >>> In the second addendum Dennis says: >>> >>> " Knowing >>> >>> If one were to inquire into the nature of the quality or ability that is >>> closest to life itself one would eventually arrive at the subject of >>> knowing. Life can know. All else is the subject of methods or systems of >>> knowing. >>> >>> The basic law, or agreement, of this universe is that one will only know >>> that which is brought into existence to be known. Thus, this universe sets >>> a limitation upon knowing as only being possible for the class of things >>> which are brought into existence to be known. >>> >>> This law is peculiar to this universe. A being can only operate, i.e. play >>> games within this universe while in agreement with this law. Once he starts >>> to know outside of this law he is operating outside the universe. >>> >>> The action of bringing something into existence so that it can be known is >>> called creation. Thus, in this universe knowing is limited to those things >>> which have been created in the universe. >>> >>> It should never be considered that knowing is by nature limited to those >>> things which are created to be known. Life can know; it can know anything, >>> whether it has been brought into existence to be known or not. In order to >>> operate in this universe life considers, or agrees, that it will not-know >>> until something is brought into existence to be known. >>> >>> >>> >>> This limitation upon knowing is the basic law, and the only basic law, that >>> governs this universe. Other universes can be constructed upon other basic >>> laws, but they would all be some type of limitation of knowing, for while >>> knowing is unlimited any type of universe or game is impossible. Bear the >>> basic law of this universe in mind as you do the Practical Exercises, for >>> all the games you have ever become trapped in in this universe have been >>> based upon the basic law of the universe. " >>> >>> >>> >>> It seems to say that "TO KNOW" is senior and more basic than "TO BRING INTO >>> EXISTENCE". >>> >>> >>> >>> Definitely all seems to come down to knowing and creating. >>> >>> >>> >>> Have a nice day >>> >>> >>> >>> Jesus Garcia >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trom mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> _______________________________________________ >> Trom mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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