David Miller wrote: > Bringing up earthquake resistent architecture in Japan > to justify comments in the Book of Mormon about > earthquakes and volcanic activity is "sloppy scholarship" > in my opinion. Why not justify comments about > earthquakes in Russia, Australia, or Antartica using > the same architeture?
Blainer wrote: > Actually, that is not a bad idea (:>) The point is that such comments can be made for half the world, so they don't do anything toward making the Book of Mormon more credible. You might as well flip a coin, call out heads, and then if heads comes up you claim that it supports the idea that you are a true prophet who can predict coin tosses. Blainer wrote: > I study astrology myself, and am seriously convinced > it not only contains some fundamental truths, but is God's > giant clock that can, if read accurately, fortell events. > ... if Jesus was born on April 6th, as many Mormons claim, > he was born under the sign Aries, symbolized by the Ram-- > Jesus called himself the "Lamb of God." Astrology is an abomination of God. You cannot practice astrology and believe in Jesus Christ. Astrology is a type of divination. Hear what the Torah says about it: "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God." (Deu 18:9-13) When those in the nations came to believe upon Jesus Christ, they burned their books, which surely included books with tables used for astrology. And many that believed came, and confessed, and showed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed. (Act 19:18-20) If you want to follow Jesus Christ, you must put away astrology. Do a lot of Mormons practice astrology? I've read that divination is a product of polytheism. David Miller wrote: > Is God confined by natural laws, or does he > exist outside the natural laws which he created? Blainer wrote: > God rules the heavens through natural law. Why do you think that? Are you saying that God did not create natural laws, but God did create Jesus? Blainer wrote: > He rules with wisdom, understanding--perfect understanding-- > of all the truths and laws of the universe, many of which we > have not the slightest conception of. Ok, no disagreement with me on that statement. Blainer wrote: > When something happens we do not understand, we call it > a miracle, but in reality, it is a natural event which hopefully > we may someday understand as well as God does. Perhaps in many cases, this is true, but you don't know if this is true in all cases. And even so, to place God underneath natural laws is to make him subject to creation. God created all things, he is not confined by natural laws because he created them. Sure, he knows everything about natural laws, because he put them in place, but that does not mean that he is subject to them and cannot change them. Blainer wrote: > God's power is his perfect and complete knowledge, > and his perfect and pure love for mankind. The implication here is that only knowledge is what separates God from us. I'm starting to see a pattern here! Blainer wrote: > "Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants > thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior. Great > is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings, none > can find out. His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay > his hand. From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never > fail. > For thus saith the Lord--I, the Lord, am merciful and gracious to all > those who fear me, and delight to honor those who serve me in > righteousness and truth unto the end. Great shall be their reward and > eternal shall be their glory. > . . . And their wisdom shall be great, and their understanding reach > to heaven, . . . I make known unto them the secrets of my will--yea, > EVEN THOSE THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN, NOR EAR HEHARD, NOT YET ENTERED > INTO THE HEART OF MAN." D&C 76: 1-10 > > > > Blainer wrote: > > > JS must have been a real "Wizard of Oz" con artist, > > > to hear you talk. > > Blainer) He received the revelation, part of which I quoted above, that > tells me he was a great prophet. All he does in your quote above is cite information from the Bible. How does that make him a great prophet? Any con man can do the same thing. David Miller wrote: >> Now you are catching on! Yes, this is exactly how I view >> Joseph Smith. I've read most every Mormon source I can >> on him, and that is my conclusion about him. He was a con >> artist. Blainer wrote: > That is sad that you have read and not believed. > Your biases are the problem, I would say. (:>) What biases? Exactly what bias do you think gets in the way of my believing in Joseph Smith? Is it because I have had other experiences with con artists? Is it because I believe the Bible is the more sure word of prophecy? Exactly what biases do you think is the problem? In my opinion, your biases keep you from seeing that Joseph Smith was a con man. You apparently do not read the information available which shows the kind of man that he was. David Miller wrote: >> What do you think of his early occupation as a treasure hunter? >> Do you think he deceived people by claiming to be able to find >> buried treasure on their property by looking into a stone placed >> in his hat? What natural explanation do you have for this behavior >> of Joe Smith? Blainer wrote: > I don't really believe he did that, although I understand he > used the peepstone in helping to translate the BoM. > I think I have some actual photos of one of those stones. > Do you receive files? Yes, I receive files, and I would be glad to receive such a photo from you. Why do you not believe that Joseph Smith used a peepstone to look for buried treasure? The facts are very well documented by many witnesses, and there exist court documents establishing this fact that Joseph Smith was found guilty of this fraud, court documents from March of 1826, four years before the Book of Mormon was published. Of course, Joseph Smith himself denied the allegations in his own history, but the evidence is quite overwhelming and establishes that Joseph Smith lied about it all. Even statements by Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith, support this viewpoint. Would you like me to present some of the evidence here? If you are interested, I would be glad to make time and establish this point. Maybe you have some answer for it all? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
