� David Miller wrote:
> David Miller wrote: > >> Please note that baptism might still be considered useful > >> and a vehicle whereby people come into a saving knowledge > >> of Jesus Christ, but we do not say that God rejects all those > >> who have not been baptized, because the evidence is clear > > > that God has received those who had not been baptized. > > DAVEH: > > Obviously that isn't so clear to me! The baptism for the dead > > issue would seem to support my side of that discussion. > > If it were clear that this was a valid practice taught by Jesus, I would > agree, but the practice of baptizing for the dead seems to be an aberrant > superstition. DAVEH:� What makes you say that?� Where is there any evidence it is a "aberrant superstition."? > �If you accept my previous arguments about how a person must > first be saved, clean, left this world, in order to receive the Holy Spirit, DAVEH:� I respectfully do not agree with that argument. > then the incidence of Cornelius household in Acts 10 establishes very > clearly that salvation can happen without water baptism.� I'm not degrading > baptism or its use.� I'm just pointing out that God isn't some legalist > sitting up there with his checkbook, and making sure that everyone he > accepts has first been dunked underwater by those with the proper authority > and all in the right manner. DAVEH:� Do you believe those who are saved must enter into a covenant with the Lord?� Or do you believe salvation can come without any covenantal relationship? > �God does not look at things the way men look > at things.� God looks at the heart.� Baptism is effective only in how it > changes one's heart, and there are many things besides baptism that can > change the heart. > > David Miller wrote: > >> We believe that the Mormon system has hidden the > >> Kingdom of God from you.� The Mormon system > >> has returned people to a kind of Old Testament religion > >> whereby you primarily look for the Messiah to come. > > DAVEH: > > LOL........We are one of the few religions who believe > > he has recently paid us a visit! > > I've known several people who have seen Jesus.� I've known many more who > have received revelation in modern times.� From my perspective, Mormons do > not act like those who believe in continuing revelation, DAVEH:� From my LDS perspective, that comment seems quite interesting......if not, amusing. > but like those > Protestants who deny continuing revelation. > > Even among evangelicals who might not understand modern revelation, they > teach that Messiah is all about a personal relationship with him.� In other > words, you receive Jesus into your heart and become born again.� Mormons > fail to grasp even this simple truth, instead looking back to their great > prophet, and looking forward to a salvation that is yet to come.� In that > way, the Mormon religion keeps people from seeing the kingdom of God, the > reign of God, that is here right now for those who believe. > > DaveH wrote: > > I've mentioned the PS 82:6 comment about "Ye are gods" > > which contrasts what I understand Protestantism teaches. > > I think Perry suggested that 'gods' there referred to judges, > > but I fail to see where that argument holds any water..... > > especially since Jesus quoted it to confound his detractors. > > > > So DavidM.......I do understand that Protestants don't believe > > there are any gods besides Jesus, but that doesn't square with > > Holy Scripture. How and why do you (Protestants) seemingly > > ignore this? To me, it is obvious that there were many gods, > > but only one whom Israel was expected to worship. How do > > you see it, DavidM? Do you believe there many gods as Psalms > > infers??? > > The term "Elohim" is a general term that not only applies to God himself, > but to those who act in his place.� It can refer to angels so sent (in > Hebrew Scriptures, the "angel of the Lord," and to judges and magistrates > who administer justice.� Jesus was pointing out a fallacy in the logic of > his detractors by basically saying, "if the Scriptures called those of old, > Elohim, how can you complain if I say about myself that I am the son of > Elohim?"� His point wasn't about how there are many gods, but that his > language was not as strong as the language of Scripture concerning those who > represent Yahweh. DAVEH:� Whatever one thinks 'gods' represented.....it was considered blasphemous that anybody would think in those terms.� Nonetheless, to substitute in God's place is something the OT taught we can do/be.� Yet even today, I suspect Protestant theology will not admit such. > DAVEH: > > ROTFLOL.......Perhaps you would have to show that Jesus > > is false, since he is the foundation of my religion. > > Well, surely you must recognize that your foundation is more than Jesus. DAVEH:� Without him, our religion fails to exist. > What makes you a Mormon and me not? DAVEH:� Recognition of the proper authority of the Lord. > �Isn't it your belief in Joseph Smith as > a true prophet, and your acceptance of the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & > Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price as Holy Scripture?� If you stopped > believing in Joseph Smith and his writings, wouldn't you then have only > Jesus as your foundation and be a Christian in a way that the other > non-Mormons on TruthTalk are? DAVEH:� To do that, would be to deny the power of the priesthood as was restored a couple centuries ago.� And, it would deny the Lord's continued revelatory nature. > Again, I just wonder, if I could show you that Joseph Smith was a fraud, > would you reject Mormonism?� Or, would you be like other Mormons who have > seen him to be a fraud, but stayed in Mormonism anyway? > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida� USA -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ � ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
