From: "Wm. Taylor" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Judy says > I used to believe that anyone who
claimed to be Christian should be perfect.
Judy, I think there are unbelievers who still
believe this. Do you believe that maybe the language Christians use -- for
instance, "Christian perfection" -- may be fueling the misunderstanding? Do
you believe your language might lend itself to that sort of misunderstanding
on the part of unbelievers?
jt: No because I wouldn't talk this way to an
unbeliever.
BT: What about unbelievers who read these posts. Are you not talking to
the world every time one of your posts hit the archives?
IMO unbelievers are of this opinion because the god
of this world whispers to them so that he can accuse the believers to them who
obviously do not measure up.
BT: I agree with you about the whispering thing. What do you think
the whiperer whispers when Christians have already done the dirty work for
him?
OTOH I don't think the "sin consciousness" talk helps
the cause of Christ either. Do you?
BT: I'm not sure what you mean by "sin consciousness" talk. Is this
something I have said? If it is, will you refresh my memory? Is it not better
to love our neighbors while being honest about our own shortcomings, than it
is to condemn them while misleading (or maybe lying) about the obvious?
When the Church is impotent and not doing the works
of Christ what is there to draw the unbeliever?
BT: I hear you. One might conclude there is nothing to draw the believer.
Yet Christ continues to build his church inspite of its/our ineptitude and
sin. I think this is a wonderful testimony to God's grace. Don't you?
Most of the time they don't listen to the
rhetoric. jt
BT: Yeah, well I am not as confident about that as you. Again it must be
the Father drawing people to the Son through the Holy Spirit, because the
world, it seems to me, is always more than willing to hear and report problems
from the Church/Christian life.
From: "Wm. Taylor" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PS, when I
say "deceptive" I am not meaning deceptive in an evil sense but deceptive in
that it is misleading to the one who hears you say it but still sees you
sinning.
jt: Only misleading if I claim to be where I'm not; I don't think it
misleading to say I believe that because it is scriptural and if it is in the
scriptures the younger believer can look it up and learn what it means.
As for the unbeliever. I used to believe that anyone who claimed to be
Christian should be perfect or at least more perfect than the people who
didn't make such claims. jt
Judy,
So when saying you agree with DavidM, you do not really mean you
agree with his use of the term Christian perfection. Is that what I should
understand you to be saying? Because I don't think we have to wallow in the
mud either. I do think there is less deceptive ways of saying that than with
the language of "Christian perfection"; because "perfection" implies
perfection, doesn't it? Do you know what I mean? You don't really expect to be
functionally perfect on this side of death, do you?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Judy Taylor
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:38 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Education -
Is it evil?
Billt:
Judy, Allow me to expand a little bit. Maybe this will help me
to
understand the term. Judy says All truth is not positive
and all error
is not negative - and noone has arrived that I know of so
far. Judy,
how does this statement jive with your Christian perfectionism?
Doesn't the idea of perfection necessitate arrival? Bill Taylor
jt: No it does not. Salvation is present progressive. We should
be
headed in that direction however. We have a sacrifice and a
throne of
grace to go to in time of need. So why wallow in the
mud.
jt.
Judy says
All truth is not positive and all
error is not negative -
and noone has arrived that I know of so far.
Billt:
Judy, how does this statement jive with your Christian
perfectionism?
jt: I'm not sure what you perceive to be my "Christian pefectionism"
Bill.
I don't think it is positive or fun to look in the mirror (of His
Word) some
days and it hurts to be pruned. It's not all joy when I
find I have been
deceived in some area and need to repent. Satan
comes as an angel of
light and can say some mighty smooth and good sounding
things.
Tell me about my "Christian perfectionism" Billt,
jt
