David writes > To get us back toward the Christian Perfection doctrine a little, let me ask you this. How does understanding Gnosticism, and the misperception of a Jew like Cerinthus concerning the Incarnation and who Jesus was, help us understand a verse like 1 John 5:18?
KJV 1 John 5:18 -- We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The question, as I see it, if we are to understand this verse, is this: Who is it that keeps you from the wicked one? Does this verse teach us that you keep yourself from the wicked one? Remember Jesus' words: "And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you (pl.= you all), that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you (sg.), that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to me, strengthen your brethren" (NKJ Luk 22.31-32). Did Peter keep himself from the evil one? Was he able to do that? No. Peter needed to learn from where his strength would come. Yet the one who had prayed for him kept him through his denial and Peter's faith was ultimately preserved; i.e., Peter did return to Jesus, equipped then to strengthen his brothers.
Who is it then in I John 5.18 who "keeps himself" from the wicked one? Is John saying something like "you keep yourself" from the wicked one? No, of course not. You can no more do that than Peter. Christ Jesus keeps you from the wicked one, just like he kept Peter and keeps all believers.
I see this entire verse as referring to the "Son of God," Jesus Christ: "We know most assuredly that the One who has been born from (Gk. ex = out of or from) God does not sin; but He who was born from God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him."
Let's put this in context and see how it works.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
18 We know most assuredly that the One who has been born from God does not sin; but He who was born from God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
What is the Gnostic connection to this passage, verse 18 in particular? In this passage John sets up a contrast between life and death. Those with life are those who have the Son of God. They are Christians; they are believers. The life given them by the Father and in the Son is eternal. And so, what is the death to which John refers and what is the sin which leads to death? If the "life" is eternal life, it is not a stretch to suggest that the "death" is eternal death. What is eternal death if it is not eternal separation from fellowship with God? What then is this sin which leads to eternal separation from God? It is the sin of rejecting the Son Jesus Christ, the very sin John has been combating throughout his letter. The false prophets, deceivers, liars, and anti-christs -- dare I say Gnostics? -- had refused to acknowledge Jesus Christ as come in the flesh. Cerinthus, if indeed it was Cerinthus, and his followers had rejected Christ. Hence they were not of God; they were of the world (see cf. 4.3-5). These same false prophets claimed to be without sin, that they did not sin and that they had fellowship with God. Yet John says they are liars, that they do not have the Son nor do they have fellowship with God. They are of the world and being of the world they are "under the sway of the wicked one" (v. 19b). Quite the opposite of being without sin, they were sinning the sin which leads to death. It is Jesus Christ who is the one without sin, who does not sin and who keeps himself from the wicked one. They are not of Christ; they are not under his protection; they are not kept by him. But by inference Christians are kept by him. John speaks confidently of those who have the Son: "We know that we are from God ... And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."
We only get into trouble with this passage when we assume something about ourselves that is only true of our Savior. Jesus Christ is the one who is without sin; he is the one who has power over the evil one; he is the one who keeps us. We understand this and know that it is true.
Bill
> > PS When I use the term proto-Gnostics I mean "first"--
> > from Gk. protos--and not to mean before or prior to.
> > You may have picked up on this,; nevertheless, I'm
> > telling you so as to not mislead you.
>
> I appreciate you making this comment. The term "proto" in the sciences
> certainly means this too, but it also has the connotation of having only
> the first vestiges of what is being talked about. In evolutionary
> theory, for example, a proto-Aves (proto-bird) might be something like
> archaeopteryx, a reptile that has feathers like a bird but cannot fly
> and still retains many characteristics like a reptile, such as scales
> and teeth.
>
> I'm curious. Is the term "proto-Gnostic" original with you or have you
> read or heard others use it?
>
> Do you recognize at all the Judaic nature of guys like Simon Magus and
> Cerinthus? Do you recognize how different they were from what we call
> Gnosticism in the second century, which was wreathed in Greek influence?
>
> I realize that I might be diverting away from what would really interest
> you, the Christian Perfection doctrine, but look at it this way. You
> are helping me make up for my lack of training in seminary. :-) I do
> find your comments interesting and stimulating to the mind.
>
> To get us back toward the Christian Perfection doctrine a little, let me
> ask you this. How does understanding Gnosticism, and the misperception
> of a Jew like Cerinthus concerning the Incarnation and who Jesus was,
> help us understand a verse like 1 John 5:18?
>
> 1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that
> is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him
> not.
>
> This is a passage that I have heard many explain in what I would call
> "Gnostic terms." They feel forced to justify their sin by claiming that
> they must be without sin in their spirit but not in their flesh. I have
> trouble with dualism carried this far. I would agree with dualism in
> the sense that righteousness ultimately comes to us through the spirit
> rather than the flesh, and that there is no good thing residing in our
> flesh, but I would disagree with the notion that the normal Christian
> life is one whereby our flesh continues to sin while our spirit does
> not. I have a more holistic view of man, and so I read passages like
> this one as describing a reality that extends to the flesh, if only we
> would believe it. In my experience, when we believe what John says, we
> experience it, but when we do not believe him, we are left to our
> speculations of the mind to try and explain why John did not mean what
> he said.
>
> Lance said something recently along these lines. He said that the
> passages say what I claim they say, but they really don't mean what I
> think they mean. This reminds me of a woman a few weekends ago when I
> was teaching at a conference for home church people in Jacksonville
> associated with Gene Edwards. As I was explaining holiness, a woman
> objected by using the story of the woman caught in adultery. The woman
> caught in adultery was not condemned by Jesus. The idea, of course, was
> that she was accepted as she was. I pointed out how Jesus told her, "go
> and sin no more." Her objection was, "yeah, but when Jesus said, 'go
> and sin no more' he did not mean 'go and sin no more'. LOL. That is
> exactly what she said! I have problems with that kind of response.
> This is what I face time and time again with this topic. I can share
> the Word of God over and over again with people, yet it really always
> comes back to unbelief and the notion that the Bible does not and cannot
> mean what it says.
>
> So, maybe you can take a stab at this one passage, John 5:18. Explain
> how understanding Gnosticism would explain that this verse does not
> really mean that we will not continue to sin. If you are not sure you
> want to try and do this, I can understand that too. I can certainly
> proceed without you answering this, but if you do have an answer, it
> might curtail a lot of useless rhetoric on my part. This subject is a
> big one and I'm not sure which direction to go with you until I
> understand better what your objections would be to Christian Perfection.
> I can see that John Smithson stumbles on Romans 7 and so I would tend to
> focus on that with him first, showing clearly how it does not describe
> the normal Christian life, but rather a life in the flesh and under the
> law. I'm not sure what difficulties you have with my understanding of
> Christian Perfection. Do you see Romans 7 as descriptive of the normal
> Christian life, the best we can expect in Christ? If so, then I
> certainly ought to start there in Romans.
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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