Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Nature [Formerly -- Prayer Request]

[Dave]

Slade Henson wrote: DAVEH:  I'm not sure why you say that, Slade.  I think I corrected Perry (I believe it was Perry who said a similar thing about LDS theology) in a post a week or so ago when he suggested my belief did not allow Jesus to be God in the pre-mortal existence.    School and family take much of my time so I do not read every post. My fault for asking you a question you've already answered. Sorry. DAVEH:  No problem, Slade.  There is no need to apologize.   I know what it is like to be busy, and have been guilty at times of overlooking some posts myself. DAVEH:  As I have stated many times in TT, I believe Jesus was the God of the OT.   Is there any question about my belief about that?   Well... sort of. Do you believe a "normal" human being can attain Godhood? DAVEH:  Yes, and I fully understand that you and other TTers find that a problem.  DAVEH:  Yes.  He is (a) God, comprised of a spirit being clothed with a physical body of flesh and bone.   Can you explain the "(a)" for me? Please be clear. If need be, say it twice using different nomenclature so I can understand the uses of your words. DAVEH:  It is my belief that many Christians misunderstand the concept of only one God.  As evidenced by many things in the Bible (such as our Heavenly Father being God, Jesus being God, and the Holy Ghost being God) there are more than one God.  (If one considers there is one Godhead....that might be more appropriate, IMO.)   There are also other passages that infer such as well.  I believe why the Lord needed to emphasize the one God concept is because the Israelites had a problem with focusing on God.  There minds tended to wander away from remembering who their God is and was.  (And, I think we too are guilty of that even today........substituting worldly things in our lives when we should be concentrating on God instead.)  So.....The Lord simply laid down the law in a very forceful way so that there was no way they would misunderstand what and who they should worship......ONLY ONE GOD.   Even Jesus carried that theme in the NT, when he commanded us to give glory to his Father.....as he did as well.  Now why would Jesus feel the need to give glory to another if Jesus was the ONLY ONE GOD?  IMHO, realizing there are more Gods than one but there is only one we are to worship explains it nicely.      For most of the Christian community though, by misunderstanding the nature of God, they have had to compensate with theories like the Trinity doctrine and then clothe the resulting paradoxes and incongruities with the term mystery.   DAVEH:  ... *snip*... And, may I assume you believe he continued to be God after his resurrection?  And, may I also assume you believe he was a spirit being prior to taking on a body of flesh and blood?  And subsequent to that Slade, may I also assume you believe his spirit body is now clothed with a physical body consisting of flesh and bone?   You assume correctly. As far as your two other questions... I have no idea. DAVEH:  Ohhhhh.....that is interesting.  I thought it was commonly accepted that most Christians accept that Jesus now has a body of flesh and bones, as he explained shortly after his resurrection.  (Lk 24:39)   We had that discussion on TT years ago, but I'm sure you were not here then. IT depends upon the opinions regarding the extent of the phrase: "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Is it in reference to essence or function... or both? DAVEH:  I think that is another commonly misunderstood phrase.  I can suggest a number of changes related to the Lord.  But.....his purpose certainly has not changed.   DAVEH:  Surely you don't think one must be God to pre-exist?  May I assume you believe angels and sons of God also pre-existed?   Well, actually yes I do believe God is the only one to have pre-existed. I do not believe angels pre-existed. DAVEH:  Again......interesting.  When God said, "Let us make man in our image", do you view that as symbolic?  Or.....who do you think he was speaking to/with? I do not believe the building blocks of the universe pre-existed either. I believe neither "time" nor "space" pre-existed either. DAVEH:  Thanx for sharing your views on this.  I did not think there were any Christians who thought that way.  Do you think your perspective is shared with many other Christians? DAVEH:  Thank you, Slade.  I'm not going to try to persuade you that man can evolve to become as a God.  But, I am curious as to whether you see the evolution (so to speak) of YHVH from a spirit being who created the world, and then took upon himself a physical body of flesh and blood, who then (I'm not sure I should use this term......) morphed into a resurrected being consisting of flesh and bone combined with a spirit?  If that is somewhat similar to what you believe, then I would ask why you think God progressed in that manner or form???   No. I do not believe in an "evolutionary" process in God. I do believe that the system He set up gave Him the opportunity to love us in a way no else one is able. By dying after living a perfect and completely sinless life (including never committing even an unintentional sin) He sacrificially gave up that life in order to give us a "death" we all could cling to and say, "Yes, my sin deserves death, and HIS DEATH (pointing to GOD) is the death for that sin" (in a nutshell, of course). Since He is GOD and was perfectly perfect (redundantly repetitive), we ALL can point to that one death. DAVEH:  Hmmmm....that is definitely a different perspective than I've got.  I prefer to look at the (eternal) life he gives.  But death is an element of evolution we pass through to gain that life though. DAVEH:  (please be kind....) Have I ever been anything other than......???    I wasn't referring to you......................... J ("Ms. Smiley" borrowed from Wm. Taylor's 01 Jul 2004 23.35 post). In fact, I'd say you are probably the kindest person on TT. If one wanted to use "you shall know My disciples by the love they show one another" (Slade's loose paraphrase) you'd be the only -- or one of the few -- disciples on TT.   -- slade DAVEH:  Thank you for saying that, Slade.......though I'm sure there are many other TTers who are far better disciples than me.  Sometimes the discussions here can become rather heated.  I never really understood why though.  One would think Christians can have opposing opinions and disagree in a friendly manner without becoming enemies.  However, history would suggest otherwise. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.