Slade Henson wrote:
I hope you all don't mind, but I have renamed this
thread more appropriately
DAVEH: Good idea, Slade. Wish I had thought of it before.....
I think understand the following:
DAVEH's position: I
believe Jesus existed as a spirit being in the OT. His spirit body
then became clothed in a body of flesh and blood for a brief span some
2000 years ago. At his death, the spirit and physical body departed,
only to be reunited a short time later in a resurrected form of flesh
and bones. I believe he continues to be a spirit being that is clothed
with physical body of flesh and bones to this day.
Charles Perry Locke's position:
The aspect of the Trinity referred to as "the Son" became a man, was
crucified, and was raised from the dead.
Slade, deconstructing what DAVEH has said, sees
that there seems to be some sort of "evolution" in Yeshua from the
Tanakh period, to the Gospel period, and finally to the post -Gospel
period. Do you believe that Yeshua is now GOD (or a GOD?")
DAVEH: Yes. He is (a) God, comprised of a spirit being clothed with a
physical body of flesh and bone.
since He was resurrected from the dead? It seems
you do not believe He held that "position" before that event.
DAVEH: I'm not sure why you say that, Slade. I think I corrected
Perry (I believe it was Perry who said a similar thing about LDS
theology) in a post a week or so ago when he suggested my belief did
not allow Jesus to be God in the pre-mortal existence. As I have
stated many times in TT, I believe Jesus was the God of the OT. Is
there any question about my belief about that?
I agree with the pre-existence of Yeshua before
His physical birth, but I must qualify that Yeshua was GOD before His
physical birth (i.e., incarnation).
DAVEH: I fully agree. And, may I assume you believe he continued to
be God after his resurrection? And, may I also assume you believe he
was a spirit being prior to taking on a body of flesh and blood? And
subsequent to that Slade, may I also assume you believe his spirit body
is now clothed with a physical body consisting of flesh and bone?
This explains why Yeshua pre-existed... because He
is GOD.
DAVEH: Surely you don't think one must be God to pre-exist? May I
assume you believe angels and sons of God also pre-existed?
More on that later. (I am
intentionally restating facts in order to try to make this perfectly
clear because nomenclature problems have existed in the past between
DAVEH and I and I want that to stop.)
DAVEH: Good. I prefer you clarify everything that may get confusing.
Deconstructing Perry's position, I see what appears
to be a standard "orthodox" Christian position passed down from the
later Church fathers (i.e., Aquinas and Austustine). I also know from
other positional references Perry has made, he does not believe in
three gods (a common perverse argument used against the Trinitarian
position). While I do not quite understand the Trinity I don't think
anyone else does. The more one attempts to answer and codify the
position, the higher the risk for heresy and wrong-positioning.
Slade's position:
Throwing myself out on a limb for you all to effectively hew so I can
fall, I see the manifold aspects of YHVH through the grammar of the
Hebrew language when the Deity is described or mentioned. I see plural
words used for a single Entity (I am sorry for such a bland term) used
with singular verbs -- a highly interesting aspect of Hebrew grammar
used exclusively with YHVH. I also see singular nouns/pronouns used for
YHVH with plural verbs -- again, highly intriguing. We also know that
there is but one GOD and besides Him there is not one god. Yeshua,
throughout the texts, is given Divine status in multiple ways (outright
references, strings of pearls, innuendos, etc.) Yeshua, being GOD is
accredited with being the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow (I
believe that "yesterday" in this reference is an idiom for "forever in
the past"). Therefore, there cannot be an "evolution" of Yeshua from
man to God. Also, since YHVH knows of no other god, there cannot be
some "evolution to godhood" for anyone else either. I do not hold to
the standard Trinitarian position because I see YHVH as far, FAR bigger
than a Trinity. There are other "Characters" within the Tanakh who
claim the status of YHVH that we cannot ignore simply because it
doesn't fit the Trinitarian mode. HOWEVER... I do find it interesting
that there are three "persons" in writing... First Person, Second
Person, and Third person. Is that coincidence?
Alright, DAVEH... there ya go! You wanted to know
my position, and you have it in a very small nutshell.
DAVEH: Thank you, Slade. I'm not going to try to persuade you that
man can evolve to become as a God. But, I am curious as to whether you
see the evolution (so to speak) of YHVH from a spirit being who created
the world, and then took upon himself a physical body of flesh and
blood, who then (I'm not sure I should use this term......) morphed
into a resurrected being consisting of flesh and bone combined with a
spirit? If that is somewhat similar to what you believe, then I would
ask why you think God progressed in that manner or form???
Anything more will take a lot more typing.
DAVEH: :-) I'm
not here to torture you, Perry or anybody else, despite what some TTers
may think. Short responses are OK with me. And, if you ever think I'm
hammering you....speak up and I'll apologize. I just want to know what
you believe, and why you think that way.
(please be kind....)
DAVEH: Have I ever been anything other than......???
-- slade
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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